Do you like Ancient Fuelweaver as-is or would you like to see him changed or reworked?

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Then people are still missing out on years of content updates. Klei have already been nudging people towards the end bosses with the skilltrees, i believe a thulecite medallion spawning on an ancient corpse (corpse could explode into a terrorbeck after picking medallion) should be a guaranteed set piece found either in the mud biomes or just as u entire a random cave entrance to nudge these basebuilders forward into adventure.

It doesn't matter how much klei pushes people if people don't want to do the content it'll never be done unless klei forces them or makes it so effortless that even a player with zero investment in fighting could do it do these really sound like possible good endings to this?

[Gashzer]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i usually don't interact with stuff that got added after ANR except dreadstone and characters stuff and i'm fine so there're no issues with that

Im sure klei will have issues hearing this and will work to change that.

[Cruvimaster]

All characters are getting more and more powerful. AF has already been made a lot easier because of this. Even Wilson has 10% more damage with the right alignment. There are numerous strategies to combat the AF, including with catapults.

And people who want AF in easy mode are not beginners. They just use beginners to justify their incompetence in fighting the AF. Beginners cannot face any average boss.

So if Klei were going to worry about beginners, the developers should do away with all the medium and hard difficulty giants, making everything a fight against a TreeGuard.

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't matter how much klei pushes people if people don't want to do the content it'll never be done unless klei forces them or makes it so effortless that even a player with zero investment in fighting could do it do these really sound like possible good endings to this?

Dst is one of the least linear games of all time. It has barely any direction at all. Nudging is absolute most i would say klei have done so far they are no where near close to forcing anyone to do anything.

More nudging is a good thing as a lack of direction and information is DSTs weakness not strength now

Just now, Cruvimaster said:

All characters are getting more and more powerful. AF has already been made a lot easier because of this. Even Wilson has 10% more damage with the right alignment. There are numerous strategies to combat the AF, including with catapults.

And people who want AF in easy mode are not beginners. They just use beginners to justify their incompetence in fighting the AF. Beginners cannot face any average boss.

So if Klei were going to worry about beginners, the developers should do away with all the medium and hard difficulty giants, making everything a fight against a TreeGuard.

Whats a beginner? Someone with only 100hrs in dst? Anything over a 100hrs is ridiculous for any game to expect someone to get good, not even elden ring expects that.

[Cruvimaster]

I even see that many here were dependent on cheese against AF. Now they are orphans and their solution is to attack the boss design wanting a deerclops 2.0.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Dst is one of the least linear games of all time. It has barely any direction at all. Nudging is absolute most i would say klei have done so far they are no where near close to forcing anyone to do anything.

More nudging is a good thing as a lack of direction and information is DSTs weakness not strength now

Okay but what does this have to do with people who just don't want to do it? By all means make how to reach fuel weaver more clear but if people do not wish to engage the end result is here:

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't matter how much klei pushes people if people don't want to do the content it'll never be done unless klei forces them or makes it so effortless that even a player with zero investment in fighting could do it do these really sound like possible good endings to this?

 

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Dst is one of the least linear games of all time. It has barely any direction at all. Nudging is absolute most i would say klei have done so far they are no where near close to forcing anyone to do anything.

More nudging is a good thing as a lack of direction and information is DSTs weakness not strength now

Whats a beginner? Someone with only 100hrs in dst? Anything over a 100hrs is ridiculous for any game to expect someone to get good, not even elden ring expects that.

Real. Like I don't understand why this game for example shows how to craft recepies, but leaves crockpot recepies a guessing game unless you collect recepie pages of which you may not even find ones that are useful to you. Like I still like this game, but DST is a textbook example of a "wiki reliant" game to a fault.

[Cruvimaster]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Whats a beginner? Someone with only 100hrs in dst? Anything over a 100hrs is ridiculous for any game to expect someone to get good, not even elden ring expects that.

I see a lot of people here using "beginner" arguments to justify that something difficult should be removed from DST. And these people are not beginners and don't care about beginners. They just use them as an argumentative shield.

"this is difficult for beginners" and "this is not fun". These are two arguments to try to sabotage a design that they don't approve of.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Cruvimaster said:

I see a lot of people here using "beginner" arguments to justify that something difficult should be removed from DST. And these people are not beginners and don't care about beginners. They just use them as an argumentative shield.

I have been trying and failing to get my wife into DST. Which is a shame because DST has been a core gaming experience for me since the first beta version of the original dont starve and i want to share it. 

She is the type that wants to figure stuff out herself and DST does everything in its power to not be accessible to new players. Not everyone has 100+hrs to learn the game slowly. 

This is my angle atm.

[Cruvimaster]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I have been trying and failing to get my wife into DST. Which is a shame because DST has been a core gaming experience for me since the first beta version of the original dont starve and i want to share it. 

She is the type that wants to figure stuff out herself and DST does everything in its power to not be accessible to new players. Not everyone has 100+hrs to learn the game slowly. 

This is my angle atm.

If we had official statistics from Klei, we would see that the number of players who cannot defeat Klaus is enormous.

So should Klei put an end to Klaus' design? Of course not. All giants are optional for the purposes of the game (survival). Want boss loot? make an effort to do so. And the AF loot is pretty good. It cannot be trivialized.

[Echsrick]

remove healing, and this stupid shield, or a way to remove it without being insane, like this fight litteraly punishes you for being insane why is this needed to become insane to do 1 thing? weird backwards logic there

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

If we had official statistics from Klei, we would see that the number of players who cannot defeat Klaus is enormous.

So should Klei put an end to Klaus' design? Of course not. All giants are optional for the purposes of the game (survival). Want boss loot? make an effort to do so. And the AF loot is pretty good. It cannot be trivialized.

Klaus is alot more accessible to try and fail against to get better. AFW is a really hard boss at the end of a long and convoluted questline.

Again i dont even want AFW nerfed right now that comes later. Priorities are to make it clearer and easier to get to him.

[Cruvimaster]

11 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I have been trying and failing to get my wife into DST.

My wife is horrible at any combat in DST. She likes to use Wigfrid so she doesn't die so much (and I have to constantly revive her). I simply command the combat part and that's it.

And AF with 2 players is actually a joke, it's so easy to divide tasks.

If the debate was against Dragonfly I would understand. But it doesn't happen because those who would complain are using walls and that's their comfort zone.

[arubaro]

31 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Whats a beginner? Someone with only 100hrs in dst? Anything over a 100hrs is ridiculous for any game to expect someone to get good, not even elden ring expects that.

And why is that a bad thing? The game is big and has many layers

I have 100h in PZ and i barely survive a month

11 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

remove healing, and this stupid shield, or a way to remove it without being insane, like this fight litteraly punishes you for being insane why is this needed to become insane to do 1 thing? weird backwards logic there

Also remove his atack, his cage and the boss itself since we are at it...

Managing sanity to destroy the shild while not being punished by it is one of the things that makes this fight unique and fun. Some people just want to hold F against a treeguard reskinned... 

[Sir Noel]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

You know this would mean celestial champion would need reworked if not many people have unlocked the lunar affinity as well.

CC is way less interesting than FW anyway so I'd welcome it. And I'd wager that the problem with CC is more the questline to get to it, rather than the actual fight lol

[Gashzer]

8 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

CC is way less interesting than FW anyway so I'd welcome it. And I'd wager that the problem with CC is more the questline to get to it, rather than the actual fight lol

Only change i would make to CC fight is that if you leave the fight during whatever phase CC doesnt gain extra hp. That way you can take as long as you need for phase 2 and 3 without punishment if you leave at the start of the phase. Not sure if phase 3 gains extra hp or not but phase 2 does if you leave.

[Mentos]

not related to the thread, not directed towards anyone or anything, just saying

 

it's ok to be bad at certain parts of the game, it just be like that sometimes.

 

on topic of the thread, fuelweaver is fine, if anything we need more bosses with steep learning curves

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, Mentos said:

not related to the thread, not directed towards anyone or anything, just saying

 

it's ok to be bad at certain parts of the game, it just be like that sometimes.

 

on topic of the thread, fuelweaver is fine, if anything we need more bosses with steep learning curves

Hard bosses are fine, hard bosses trapped behind convoluted questlines not so much. Atleast klei have been working on it for CC so they will hopefully do the same for AFW

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Hard bosses are fine, hard bosses trapped behind convoluted questlines not so much

only if you mean that more clues about the questline need to get added, there isn't a difference between a hard boss that you can easily spawn on day 1 and a hard boss that requires killing other bosses before it except maybe preparing the player for the fight more if the fights're similar

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Only change i would make to CC fight is that if you leave the fight during whatever phase CC doesnt gain extra hp. That way you can take as long as you need for phase 2 and 3 without punishment if you leave at the start of the phase. Not sure if phase 3 gains extra hp or not but phase 2 does if you leave.

 

Monkey's paw curls

So now celestial champion won't recover if you leave during the fight but for the sake of fairness neither can you until he dies.

[Gashzer]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Monkey's paw curls

So now celestial champion won't recover if you leave during the fight but for the sake of fairness neither can you until he dies.

No CC can recover. Just not gain extra HP. If you leave during phase 2 CC gets more than normal hp.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

No CC can recover. Just not gain extra HP. If you leave during phase 2 CC gets more than normal hp.

Sorry gotta take it or leave it I don't make the rules monkey's paw is scary...

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Sorry gotta take it or leave it I don't make the rules monkey's paw is scary...

Haha, i fear not the monkey paw. 

Only thing i fear is grm9... 

[Swiyss]

9 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

I'd honestly prefer a total rework. It's just such an annoying, gimmicky tedious fight. I really hate having to constantly swap between sanity and insanity, killing the hands, hoping you don't miss one since they're blasted tiny, just to get another chance or two to wail on the guy.

I respect that some people enjoy the fight, but boy... not me.

It's absolutely crazy to me that someone has the balls to say something so unhinged when cheese/BS gear exists. Everything you absolutely "hate" about him is exactly what I like about his design. Should we rework just because YOU hate it?

[Gashzer]

4 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

It's absolutely crazy to me that someone has the balls to say something so unhinged when cheese/BS gear exists. Everything you absolutely "hate" about him is exactly what I like about his design. Should we rework just because YOU hate it?

Look back at what you just typed.

Cheese being so normalized in DST is unhinged. Im shocked DST devs are not more insulted, guess they are since they are trying their best to remove cheeses from all new bosses.