Please do not rework more old bosses

[Echsrick]

i just dont want bosse to be annoying, just simple only bosse, no need to get starve souls

[cybers2001]

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

What do you not like with fuelweaver? Give me as many details as you can. 

I've soloed FW many times, and I still get annoyed with the fight. IMO I think he should either spawn woven shadows less frequently, or have there be much fewer woven shadows overall during each spawn. It's just way too punishing to let him eat even a few woven shadows, making the fight feel tedious.

[lowercase skye]

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

And?
There are games where bosses don't do that

cool!

[cybers2001]

11 hours ago, Szczuku said:

And?
There are games where bosses don't do that

Terraria bosses constantly attack you. Cult of the Lamb bosses constantly attack you. Dead Cells bosses constantly attack you. Enter the Gungeon bosses constantly attack you. Ds/t bosses pre 2023 constantly attack you

Turns out there are various ways to make a boss fight

Which DS/T boss does not provide windows to attack?

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

I've soloed FW many times, and I still get annoyed with the fight. IMO I think he should either spawn woven shadows less frequently, or have there be much fewer woven shadows overall during each spawn. It's just way too punishing to let him eat even a few woven shadows, making the fight feel tedious.

Soloed dosen't really give much info, I'd rather know what kind of items you bring to the fight and which items you choose to skip. 

[cybers2001]

1 minute ago, Gi-Go said:

Soloed dosen't really give much info, I'd rather know what kind of items you bring to the fight and which items you choose to skip. 

Enough to "item-check" all the phases. I always have enough nightmare amulets, weather pains, brightshade staves, etc for the whole fight, but that doesn't mean I don't sometimes slip up and turn a 2 minute fight into a 6 minute fight.

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

Enough to "item-check" all the phases. I always have enough nightmare amulets, weather pains, brightshade staves, etc for the whole fight, but that doesn't mean I don't sometimes slip up and turn a 2 minute fight into a 6 minute fight.

You are overgeared and that's a massive understatement. If you want to tone him down even with such strong equipment, you're probably just annoyed that fuelweaver dared to fight back instead of just dying. 

[cybers2001]

17 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

You are overgeared and that's a massive understatement. If you want to tone him down even with such strong equipment, you're probably just annoyed that fuelweaver dared to fight back instead of just dying. 

 

As a boss that's meant to be fought many times, a slight tweak like this can make for a more enjoyable repeat experience without affecting the "first encounter" experience too much. CC is a much better example of a fun boss to farm.

Not sure what you mean by "overgeared" though, nor how it relates to my point at all.

[Mike23Ua]

47 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

 

As a boss that's meant to be fought many times, a slight tweak like this can make for a more enjoyable repeat experience without affecting the "first encounter" experience too much. CC is a much better example of a fun boss to farm.

Not sure what you mean by "overgeared" though, nor how it relates to my point at all.

I personally don’t feel like bosses in DST should regenerate health at all… I mean I can’t name many games that I’ve ever played where the games big boss encounters could just “Undo” all the damage you’ve done to it by fully healing up.

Klei needs to either completely remove all healing (and significantly increase total health to accommodate for that change) OR they need to nerf the hell out of their healing by only letting them heal back so much of total percentage of lost health.

I don’t think I’d have any complaints about any of the games bosses even if they each had 500,000 hp, as long as I could actually make progress on lowering their health.

[Cyrefy]

I think Klei is going in the right direction, I hope the next rework is Fuelweaver, I do this fight every day (because I play on public servers </3) and it never gets fun, but I need to make the fissures that I love, and love hurts :D, on the other hand Celestial Champion is pure perfection, as well as the three crystallized bosses, and of course my beloved Nightmare Werepig and his incredible junkyard version <3

[Gameplayer143]

My main problem with ancient fuelweaver is the item switching. You have to switch items so much whether that be nightmare amulet, lazy traveler, weather pain and your main weapon, on top of making sure your bee queen crown doesnt break and keeping sanity high enough.And sometimes when you switch items, the items go to a different item slot than the one they were last in. I know people fill up their inventory space to prevent that, but you also have to deal with the durability of your items and if an item breaks, that frees up inventory. Its so much annoying micromanagement for me that it makes the fight a tedium rather than a fun challenge. All of Celestial Champions phases make a MUCH MUCH better final boss than Fuelweaver/

[Gi-Go]

On 6/9/2024 at 10:42 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I personally don’t feel like bosses in DST should regenerate health at all… I mean I can’t name many games that I’ve ever played where the games big boss encounters could just “Undo” all the damage you’ve done to it by fully healing up.

Klei needs to either completely remove all healing (and significantly increase total health to accommodate for that change) OR they need to nerf the hell out of their healing by only letting them heal back so much of total percentage of lost health.

I don’t think I’d have any complaints about any of the games bosses even if they each had 500,000 hp, as long as I could actually make progress on lowering their health.

You play on console, any opinion you have on combat is invalid. 

41 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

My main problem with ancient fuelweaver is the item switching. You have to switch items so much whether that be nightmare amulet, lazy traveler, weather pain and your main weapon, on top of making sure your bee queen crown doesnt break and keeping sanity high enough.And sometimes when you switch items, the items go to a different item slot than the one they were last in. I know people fill up their inventory space to prevent that, but you also have to deal with the durability of your items and if an item breaks, that frees up inventory. Its so much annoying micromanagement for me that it makes the fight a tedium rather than a fun challenge. All of Celestial Champions phases make a MUCH MUCH better final boss than Fuelweaver/

Well if you know the answer to a problem, use it. Fill your inventory up, stop using weapons and armor when they get too low to not break them. There's not a lot to actually swap I think people overreact due to lack of experience. 

Or you can adress the actual issue which is the not so thoughtful inventory swapping code. I've addressed this before and it blows my mind that klei would rather fix harmless cheese strats instead of fixing this. IT IS a bug. 

[lowercase skye]

32 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

You play on console, any opinion you have on combat is invalid.

rude as hell. the amount of people who play videogames exclusively on consoles is huge and to cast out all opinions on a major part of the game for that reason alone is incredibly myopic.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Gameplayer143 said:

My main problem with ancient fuelweaver is the item switching. You have to switch items so much whether that be nightmare amulet, lazy traveler, weather pain and your main weapon, on top of making sure your bee queen crown doesnt break and keeping sanity high enough.And sometimes when you switch items, the items go to a different item slot than the one they were last in. I know people fill up their inventory space to prevent that, but you also have to deal with the durability of your items and if an item breaks, that frees up inventory. Its so much annoying micromanagement for me that it makes the fight a tedium rather than a fun challenge. All of Celestial Champions phases make a MUCH MUCH better final boss than Fuelweaver/

you don't need to swap items to kill FW, teleportation, nightmare amulet and AoE are optional

9 hours ago, Cyrefy said:

I think Klei is going in the right direction, I hope the next rework is Fuelweaver, I do this fight every day (because I play on public servers </3) and it never gets fun, but I need to make the fissures that I love, and love hurts :D, on the other hand Celestial Champion is pure perfection, as well as the three crystallized bosses, and of course my beloved Nightmare Werepig and his incredible junkyard version <3

FW is the best boss in the game imo, all bosses that got added after CK are really boring because they're easy and you always fight them the same way

[Hupo]

I think Toadstool and BQ need a rework. They are easy for multiplayer but difficult for singleplayer. It is DS Together but many players play DST alone. AFW is perfect enough for mutiplayer and singleplayer. 

Maybe adjusting the difficulty of the boss based on the number of players is a better choice. Just like Terraria.

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, finn from human said:

rude as hell. the amount of people who play videogames exclusively on consoles is huge and to cast out all opinions on a major part of the game for that reason alone is incredibly myopic

Dst Controls on console are horrible and if we are going to balance bosses around that I'll have to chop off both of my hands to actually have a challenge playing

[Frosty_Mentos]

Since we're getting a better progression system for all characters with reworks - boss reworks are in order to be made to make them more fit to modern DST.

Old DS/DST was simplified with overly high hp's to feel like raid bosses for multiple players to deal with or even find own ways to make their hps drop fast enough. There's been numerous strategies invented and the game is live service to be needing to evolve further to be actually fresh and fun to play. If there's no updates for old things there will be no space to fill in the map of Constant if they just asset dump with more things instead.

Old characters been so well improved with each getting two updates each that they can solo everything on their own, making the big boss hps rather meager and melt faster which I think is a decent solution to how little we had tools before to deal with them. Now we got much better variety and old bosses are falling off in terms of being interesting to fight to that they are nothing more but resource farms.

Best solution is to rework the bosses just because Klei has new design and ideas to make them feel a lot more cooler and less basic. I like that and I would enjoy seeing more of it all. I think they are doing a splendid job at making the game relevant and fun and cheering them on would be better priority since it is their made game they are making so their vision is their responsibility on making it real.

So, I wanna cheer on Klei and hope plenty of forum people do that too because we've been getting so many updates and it kept us interested and happier during darker times.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Old DS/DST was simplified with overly high hp's to feel like raid bosses for multiple players to deal with or even find own ways to make their hps drop fast enough

hp isn't relevant for why people liked the bosses

2 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Now we got much better variety and old bosses are falling off in terms of being interesting to fight to that they are nothing more but resource farms.

Best solution is to rework the bosses just because Klei has new design and ideas to make them feel a lot more cooler and less basic

FW, CK, BQ, toad and dfly are more complex than all bosses that got added after them and imo more fun

3 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I hope plenty of forum people do that too because we've been getting so many updates and it kept us interested and happier during darker times

i still don't like interacting with anything that got added since ANR except CK and characters stuff 

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i still don't like interacting with anything that got added since ANR except CK and characters stuff 

I mean. Sad, I guess.

[Gameplayer143]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

you don't need to swap items to kill FW, teleportation, nightmare amulet and AoE are optional

FW is the best boss in the game imo, all bosses that got added after CK are really boring because they're easy and you always fight them the same way

Nah FW sucks as a boss fight. Its basically a resource gatekeep and a tedium of inventory management. I dont know how youre even supposed to deal with his inviniciblity without a nightmare amulet and bone traps without a nightmare amulet and lazy traveler or playing as Wortox or Wanda. If you decide to just become naturally insane he just mind controls you to get a free hit on you or heal for HP easily. These are things you have to deal with that make killing him before he heals himself, impossible to do without said items. Celestial Champion is a much better final boss than him.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Nah FW sucks as a boss fight. Its basically a resource gatekeep and a tedium of inventory management. I dont know how youre even supposed to deal with his inviniciblity without a nightmare amulet and bone traps without a nightmare amulet and lazy traveler or playing as Wortox or Wanda. If you decide to just become naturally insane he just mind controls you to get a free hit on you or heal for HP easily. Celestial Champion is a much better final boss than him.

I do like Fuelweaver just because he is the only boss from a New Reign at the time to have this many cool mechanics. Noone ever mentions the chess pieces considering we have to deal with three bosses and they probably least need a rework.

Fuelweaver is prolly only boss I cheese with gunpowder or just having plenty of houndiuses to support fire just because he is extremely ability spammy for me. After killing two times he'll become a resource farm, but none the less highest tier boss fight compared to the rest.

Bee queen is... kinda boring. She spams bees, screams, screams, spams bees, stabs, enrages bees, enrages bees... For a boss fight I'd want to feel a lot more epic for the most powerful storage item in the game she is least enjoyable to fight. I'd be fine if she was harder to kill only if she had more attack opportunities put at her. Also I kinda bee queen would respawn bee hives and expand her domain instead of staying in place. She could be cooler imo. I like when bosses are more complex and interesting to fight.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Nah FW sucks as a boss fight. Its basically a resource gatekeep and a tedium of inventory management. I dont know how youre even supposed to deal with his inviniciblity without a nightmare amulet and bone traps without a nightmare amulet and lazy traveler or playing as Wortox or Wanda. If you decide to just become naturally insane he just mind controls you to get a free hit on you or heal for HP easily. These are things you have to deal with that make killing him before he heals himself, impossible to do without said items. Celestial Champion is a much better final boss than him

there are multiple videos about killing him without those, an old recording as an example

https://youtu.be/fFYBvuZzQig

you're simply bad at the fight and the items aren't required, stop spreading misinformation, other people might start thinking that and not liking the boss too

[Gameplayer143]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there are multiple videos about killing him without those, an old recording as an example

https://youtu.be/fFYBvuZzQig

you're simply bad at the fight and the items aren't required, stop spreading misinformation, other people might start thinking that and not liking the boss too

Ah yes just let me play as mighty wolfgang and use animation cancellation to optimize dps, and farmed a bunch of greencaps. Im sure the average player will have that when fighting Fuelweaver. Also it's not misinformation when I say "I don't know how you're supposed to do something without x thing".

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Ah yes just let me play as mighty wolfgang and use animation cancellation to optimize dps, and farmed a bunch of greencaps

similar strats don't depend on dps

https://youtu.be/VRhfiZm2nYA

at least watch the fight, i've only used 2 green shrooms and 7 cactii

12 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Also it's not misinformation when I say "I don't know how you're supposed to do something without x thing"

23 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

impossible to do without said items

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the strat doesn't depend on dps

https://youtu.be/VRhfiZm2nYA

at least watch the fight, i've only used 2 green shrooms and 7 cactii

Bro this video still had the guy still get stunned by the mind control, despite having sanity healing items, which could lengthen the fight if he healed a lot. The nightmare amulet still seems the better option to use for sanity management, but that still goes in with my complaint about inventory management tedium.