It's over wilsonbros...

[arubaro]

27 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said:

I find it kind of ridiculous that most people say the torch tree is one of the worst skills to be added in the game. While it's true a lantern can to do what a maxed put torch tree provides and can get it pretty early if you know what to do, unlike a lantern, you won't have to constantly scavenge for fuel anytime your light source starts getting low.

While fully upgraded torches don't last as long compared to a lantern or miner's helmet, the ingredients to make one are so cheap and abundant on the surface that you'll always have access to a really great light source at any given moment.

Now in areas like the caves where materials for torches are less abundant, that's where lanterns and miner's helmet come to "shine", but outside of those areas, I'm always carrying a torch. 

Tbh is funnier to have a perk to throw a torch than having perks with flat damage or armor

[GrapeVruit]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Tbh is funnier to have a perk to throw a torch than having perks with flat damage or armor

Not to mention it's pretty sick. Forget a higher crit chance, a mini dwarf star, or an invincibility shield, all that other stuff is lame. The torch toss is the sickest skill in the game, and anyone'll get "burned" for thinking otherwise.

[mkemal23]

9 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said:

While it's true that some of the surviors downsides are lessened or their abilities are far more powerful than they were before, (I mean, just take a look at Maxwell) there's a hidden downside that most of them have that I haven't seen anyone mention: They get incredibly boring.

Because most survivors negatives are either lessened or their strengths give greater rewards for little effort, eventually you start getting bored with how often a good portion of the roster can bend the game to its will. 

Wolfgang can deal 2x damage, harvest faster, row quicker, and carry heavy objects with no penalty by either pressing a button or by just playing the game, Wendy can completely invalidate her combat weakness by using Abgails damage petals, WX can keep a certain circuit combo in and keep it by not getting wet or starving, and Maxwell... Well, I'm sure you can guess why he's so strong. 

Recently, I've found myself playing more Wilson than I have before, since unlike most of the roster, I can't rely on extremely powerful abilities to make survival more trivial. I understand why you feel this way, though. It's kind of ridiculous that the rest of the survivors can have so much depth and Wilson doesn't even get a passing mention. It's pretty frustrating. 

Here's what I said earlier here:

I can ensure you that I completely agree with what you said. Other characters are getting so powerful that at this point it hurts the gameplay for me. Not only that, but right now planar content slowly overshadows most of the character special powers and makes them more or less equal to Wilson with BS sword. 

This results of complete loss of progression. You destroy everything you face just to be at same level as everyone. 

This is why I love starting new worlds and going through everything when there is a new update. The endgame feels much more rewarding when you do it with Wilson.

[arubaro]

11 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said:

Not to mention it's pretty sick. Forget a higher crit chance, a mini dwarf star, or an invincibility shield, all that other stuff is lame. The torch toss is the sickest skill in the game, and anyone'll get "burned" for thinking otherwise.

And, if hopefully,  klei expanded the presence of miasma it could be useful

[comonavi]

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

If klei gave other characters proper and gameplay changing downsides like Wormwood's or Wanda's then Wilson would have automatically been better because he would have been a real default character option for the people who didn't want to deal with any downsides in general.

You're right and it wouldn't even take much effort. Basic balance changes would make character choices so much more interesting than a hundred skill trees ever could. Like okay, singleplayer Willow's random fires were overly destructive for a character with basically zero perks, but it makes sense that the pyromaniac would indulge in random destruction and you'd have to deal with that. Yet now that she's a living flamethrower she not only has complete control over her obsessive madness, it's literally impossible to start fires accidentally even when BLASTING IT FROM HER HANDS. And of course her one weakness is now completely nullified by her mini-stars, as if it wasn't already unnoticable.

Now that it's so easy for her to stop fires, why not bring the random fires back? Don't even base it on sanity, just make it a recurring threat. Even if they spread as fast as in singleplayer I doubt it'd do anything unless you fell asleep on your keyboard, it'd just make her more reliant on her new abilities. Now I know I just said I want one of the most controversial game mechanics in the history of Don't Starve to return but I seriously think something that harsh is warranted at this point. Just an example.

 

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

This doesn't mean change the fact that almost half of the characters are just Wilson+

Yeah I see the point you were making now, sorry. Couldn't resist being a prick about it.

[Jakepeng99]

23 hours ago, arubaro said:

Ye, they also said that is intended to have bland trees like Wolfgang’s.  I dont get that vision

They are probably going to do the same with Wanda and Maxwell.

 

Wanda will have 5 skills that just makes her watch deal more planar damage to planar enemies, and 5 more that let her increase her maxinum age, and one random really op skill

 

Maxwell will have 24 skills that make his puppets run faster.

2 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

Exaclty what I meant. There are characters like Wanda or Wormwood who have well made major downsides and then there are chracters like Woodie, Wx, Wolfgang, or even Wicker whom are just better than Wilson.

I agree. It is kinda dumb that Woodie quite literally has 0 downsides at all now. Why even consider playing Wilson (outside of intentionally wanting a basic character or his personality) if we have canadian Wilson with some op abilities?

Edited March 2 by Jakepeng99

[mkemal23]

6 minutes ago, comonavi said:

You're right and it wouldn't even take much effort. Basic balance changes would make character choices so much more interesting than a hundred skill trees ever could.

Yep, exactly. It's sad that when klei is done with something they rarely go back.

6 minutes ago, comonavi said:

Yeah I see the point you were making now, sorry. Couldn't resist being a prick about it.

No, no It's all good my friend. We were just discussing.

If anything I'm the annoying paragraf guy here.

Edited March 2 by mkemal23
Grammar

[grm9]

2 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

Maxwell

do you think that maxwell has an impactful downside? hp doesn't matter when you're on top of a beefalo in a game where you can have 95% absorption and only take 5 damage from a final boss' attack 

2 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

There are characters like Wanda who have well made major downsides

not really, no sanity debuff from using 95% absorption armor and infinite free healing, 2 healing clocks is already more than 1 free jellybean worth of healing per day and you're unlikely to have issues with them having cd during a fight unless you're trying to tank CC spin with a football helm or something

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

Here's what I said earlier here:

I can ensure you that I completely agree with what you said. Other characters are getting so powerful that at this point it hurts the gameplay for me. Not only that, but right now planar content slowly overshadows most of the character special powers and makes them more or less equal to Wilson with BS sword. 

This results of complete loss of progression. You destroy everything you face just to be at same level as everyone. 

This is why I love starting new worlds and going through everything when there is a new update. The endgame feels much more rewarding when you do it with Wilson.

Also, they said they didnt want to powercreep Wilson in the livestream when making the torch tree which is kinda weird.

[mkemal23]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

do you think that maxwell has an impactful downside? hp doesn't matter when you're on top of a beefalo in a game where you can have 95% absorption and only take 5 damage from a final boss' attack 

not really, no sanity debuff from using 95% absorption armor and infinite free healing, 2 healing clocks is already more than 1 free jellybean worth of healing per day and you're unlikely to have issues with them having cd during a fight unless you're trying to tank CC spin with a football helm or something

I know they aren't really balanced aswell.

Those were just examples to show difference between two types of characters to prove my point about how Wilson is getting overshadowed.

But unfortunately, I don't have enough gameplay knowledge to discuss about how balanced those two are. 

[arubaro]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They are probably going to do the same with Wanda and Maxwell.

 

Wanda will have 5 skills that just makes her watch deal more planar damage to planar enemies, and 5 more that let her increase her maxinum age, and one random really op skill

 

Maxwell will have 24 skills that make his puppets run faster.

I agree. It is kinda dumb that Woodie quite literally has 0 downsides at all now. Why even consider playing Wilson (outside of intentionally wanting a basic character or his personality) if we have canadian Wilson with some op abilities?

And the way they remove the moon downside is applied in so uninteresting plus you dont have it from day 1 because how affinity perks work...

These kind of things and the bland skill trees are the reason why they shouldn't make them..  if you are gonna add such new thing it should be well thought,  implemented and interesting 

[Jakepeng99]

The chatacters with well balanced good downsides imo is:

Wormwood.

Wurt.

Warly.

Wendy.

Wortox.

Wigfrid.

Walter.

 

Edited March 2 by Jakepeng99

[Retepeter]

2 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

This is the problem here. If klei gave other characters proper and gameplay changing downsides like Wormwood's or Wanda's then Wilson would have automatically been better because he would have been a real default character option for the people who didn't want to deal with any downsides in general.

that makes sense, i agree 

[cybers2001]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, SSneaky said:

the torch tree is alright.

the torch throw is really nice because it lets you use place torches like lanterns before you get a lantern.

Who doesn’t have a lantern by day 4 though?

Edited March 2 by cybers2001

[The Starver]

8 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Who doesn’t have a lantern by day 4 though?

Me, and most other noobs who aren't caves rushers.

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, The Starver said:

who aren't caves rushers.

You don't even need to explore the caves, just go done any cave entrance and you can find some light bulbs next to the stairs. You don't need to go the ruins for light bulbs you know.

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The chatacters with well balanced good downsides imo is:

Wormwood.

Wurt.

Warly.

Wendy.

Wortox.

Wigfrid.

Walter.

 

For Wormwood we need to see how much they buff the Photosynthesis perk

Wigfrid can eat stuff that isnt meat

 

I fear for warly...

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, The Starver said:

Me, and most other noobs who aren't caves rushers.

It only takes a few seconds to go to the caves, get 2 light bulbs and go up again.

[Cheggf]

11 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

The thing is, most Wilson players will go for the transmutation, beard and affinity perks. I don't mind the spilt off for the beard branch since I prefer the beard to have its magnificent length as default (15 days) as opposed to have it grow quickly.

What I do mind is the torch perk being basically almost useless. 7 points to allocate for a discount lantern.

Now imagine if Willow or Wigfrid or Woodie/etc. needing to spend that much points for a single perk. Of course you can't, why should they? They're the fighters, got countless items and such-

So really, just think if your mains got put in the same shoes as Wilson right now. I bet you will rage over it.

What is it with people who hate Wilson and never play him saying they're Wilson mains? Why is nobody ever like "I'm a Warly main, and lemme tell you, Klei hates us. They force us to eat crock pot dishes, and they only give us things about cooking. Take away the crock pot restriction, take away his cooking abilities, and add some new abilities like giving him a rapier or some boomerangs. Imagine if your main had to be a unique character that had its own niche, and only people who like that character like that character. You'd rage."?

I pick the torch perks because I actually play Wilson, and I don't really care about the transmute stuff since it's boring and not usually helpful. I often see many other people also pick the torch skills. You disliking the skill tree because you don't like Wilson doesn't mean everyone hates Wilson as much as you and everyone picks the exact same skills you do. In my opinion it's the entire transmutation line that's "basically almost useless". Only 2 or 3 of them are maybe sometimes a little helpful, and not typically nearly as helpful as the torch line is.

[Anis5240]

11 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I pick the torch perks because I actually play Wilson, and I don't really care about the transmute stuff since it's boring and not usually helpful. I often see many other people also pick the torch skills. You disliking the skill tree because you don't like Wilson doesn't mean everyone hates Wilson as much as you and everyone picks the exact same skills you do.

Actually Wilson is my main or else I won't bother coming here. I've played him since the OG DS. You didn't even see my profile picture or my profile description was about him, eh? Whatever.

14 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What is it with people who hate Wilson and never play him saying they're Wilson mains?

Bah, I really want to laugh at this. I've only played Wilson ever since I got DST. Maxwell; I have tried him once and he's immediately not my style.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

What is it with people who hate Wilson and never play him saying they're Wilson mains?

some people seem to like him because of his quotes but not like that he didn't get as much useful stuff as other characters after skill tree, ig most people think that warly's quotes aren't as interesting and that he has enough useful perks, especially considering a lot of people watch videos about characters being broken op because they deal more than 100 damage with spice volt goat jelly during rain with full warbis buff

[comonavi]

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The chatacters with well balanced good downsides imo is:

Wendy.

I'm torn on this. I think it'd be fair to give her the Wes efficiency nerf so Beefalo don't negate her only weakness (inb4 damage modifier skill tree)

 

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

For Wormwood we need to see how much they buff the Photosynthesis perk

Wigfrid can eat stuff that isnt meat

I'm also curious about the photosynthesis buff. It seems like an okay tradeoff for hunger drain but I barely play him so idk what the consensus is in general.

Yeah Wigfrid's diet is just confusing now. I could see a chaud froid exception since there's part of an animal in it, but she just straight up cheats with candy. Maybe sweets are just too irresistable to not break character? Even though she'd otherwise rather die...?

 

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Walter.

Poor kid is all downsides

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, comonavi said:

I think it'd be fair to give her the Wes efficiency nerf

having to spend 34% more time holding space to mine, chop and hammer isn't fun

Edited March 2 by grm9

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, comonavi said:

Poor kid is all downsides

Just dont get hit, and he is OP and has infinite sainity.

[Masked Koopa]

Personally, I think it'd be good to have other perks but have them be relatively unimpactful. I think what bothers me is not the lack of power, but the lack of variety. I think it could be good to give him perks like getting 10 more hunger from bacon and eggs, getting bonus sanity for prototyping, 25% better durability on basic tools and armour, etc. I think these could benefit new players quite a lot.