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what would new not optional threats look like


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I see a fair bit of talk here about adding not optional/forced threats to game but i also don't see a lot of discussion of what those new threats would look like.

which is why im asking if you had to add in a new threat like new weather a seasonal boss or anything else, what would it be and when would it come after you and what potential counterplay would exist? 

for me personally i would like to see storms/hurricanes from shipwrecked make a return in some form as they feel much more intense than just heavy rain even if they aren't actually that threatening outside of constant lightning. 

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yeah, a new boss out on the water would be cool.

would be neat if this boss was smaller (like the size of two rockjaws stacked on top of each other) in order to board your boats for some attacks, but staying at a distance in the water to stalk the player before the fight, and to stay out of melee range during the fight,

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Pig raids as they showed us in the wx cinematic is a cool start

But personally I would like progressive changes in the seasons' climatic events, but I wouldn't like them to pile up to a point that becomes unbearable, because the glass rain(?) hordes of plants that come after opening the portals + smoldering + earthquake + cold, heat + lightning + frog rain + rain + hound waves + bosses is definitely a lot, anything added on top of that will just be tedious to deal with, new changes, preferably progressive ones, should reduce a lot if not completely remove other mechanics to make room.

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Literally half of what they've done for the latest content arc would work, and more.

I constantly pray for the option to make the threats enable themselves after a set day count. Starting day 1 is fun but not everyone likes it, especially in its current state, and having to opt into the rift content takes me so out of it, too. I'd love to just have the harder stuff come to me.

I'm not really a fan of needing to go out and go look for threats. Nor am I a fan of the combat direction these updates are going in. I want to hunker down and feel afraid again. I'd like more seasonal threats, more dangerous enemy variants that swap in existing things.

Hell, you can still do "optional" threats that are slightly more tied into the world as well, and combat stuff can still be done just fine, I'd rather they take a more 'base defense' approach than a 'get sword and kill' approach. I'd love more trap based gameplay!

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I want the skins to have an impact with some new npc soo bad, like they would praise me for having nice clothes or even only allow to enter houses with certain dress codes. I loove the idea of a cidadel community full of pigmen kids playing around and fighting mobs and old ladies that sell you stuff. Idk that kinda fits my style of gameplay.

i like the brightshades plants, they are just there and that's it. but I hate hounds attacks and antlion earthquakes.

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There are so so many creative and fun ways to this- for one.. we now have portals that open randomly spewing out god only knows what.

So I think it would be Quite Interesting, if we had more Unique and less predictable “Hound Wave Variants” Perferably with mobs that aren’t just Hound Waves.

Hamlet had Bat Waves for example

I think these guys should spawn as a Portal Wave.

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Then of course there’s the Ocean- which could have various ocean mobs surface from under the ocean depths (both peaceful & hostile mobs) so ocean travel itself isn’t sooooooooo boring.

finally there’s adding a new “Morphing” Shadow monster that can change shapes/combat tactics that isn’t a Boss.

And of course brand new exciting weather effects or world hazards!

(such as a global sandstorm that covers all biomes in sand which comes with brand new gameplay mechanics of traveling through a sand covered terrain, the biomes may be familiar, the trees may help you know where your located on your map- But what spawns out of the sands won’t be so predictable, if anyone here has played Remenant 2 on Xbox Gamepass you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

The Appeal behind RogueLites, and Survival games in general is in how unpredictable & chaotic they can become.

For example if you play 7 Days To Die- and you quietly search a building, but don’t notice the screamer that spawns- CHAOS!

You play State of Decay 2 and go to explore an enclave but a feral or bloater spawns in the building… CHAOS!

And right now DST just doesn’t HAVE that..

DS DID however have these moments, at least when it came to the Shipwrecked and Hamlet DLCs.

Flipping over stones or chopping resources could spawn a hostile mob that attacked you 

All of these things were far more interesting to me then optional boss fights in a restricted area designated to fighting them within.

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4 hours ago, -Variant said:

Literally half of what they've done for the latest content arc would work, and more.

- snip -

I mentioned in another thread how AFW and CC could go from not doing anything to becoming an active threat after a set amount of time, maybe after 2 years of in game time things start to activate. That is more than enough time that someone who wants to accelerate the process can but players who don't are threatened.

We have options to turn off all the seasonal things that threaten us in the world generation: so why not add more and make them default and if people don't like it they can turn it off?

While I do not like suggesting things because that is Klei's job, our job is to give our opinions on what we like and don't like. We identify the problems, Klei comes up with solutions. That's my opinion.

People in general (I don't agree) dislike Brightshades. I think this is because the portals are either active or inactive and cannot be stopped by player action. Like how Hound Waves, they spawn, you can out run them to ignore them or kill them. The player has agency in how to deal with the problem. With Brightshades we just have them spawn and spawn and spawn and spawn until the portal closes. We can't close the portal ourselves so we have an infestation that go from "This is dangerous I need to deal with it" to "This is dangerous, dealing with it doesn't solve the issue so I will just ignore it".

As for new ideas, good lord there is are infinite possibilities. I like Lord of the Fruit fly, it is annoying and threatens a peaceful task and disrupts it. Mike mentioned in another thread how Bee Queen to gradually spawn Killer Bee hives and I quite like that idea. I think they would have to reward no loot and if bee queen is killed they disappear that way it encourages dealing with the disease rather than the symptom.

When a certain season let's go with Winter for this, starts it will stay winter until the source of this endless winter is dealt with. This could be combat or a simple tribute to a creature that can be found on an island. Maybe this could be the Shark Boy passive. Antlion is a brilliantly designed entity, I would like more things like her. Give Shark Boy some food until he is full or something then winter will end, alternatively kill him by feeding him some spicy food or something to start combat.

Dust Devils could be added to summer. They just act like sandstorms but are localized and move around the map slowly.

Someone mentioned flooding in the caves a long time ago. That could be cool during spring just not preventing access to areas like what I remember being recommended; but it would require gear to not drown or get flung around because a large gush of water pushed creatures in a direction.

Monkey raids are global again (though please change the frequency), and allow them to attack on land. They be looking for booty!

Have moonstorms travel around the map instead of being stationary so players can't just ignore if it is in an area they don't plan to access and it will eventually reach the player and cause a major disruption.

Idk. just spit balling. Not that Klei should use any of these ideas, just that there is endless creativity to have danger be present while having it not optional. I think that would be a net positive for the game.

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I think the primary thing the game needs is not more "hard" stuff, but rather more variety.  The problem with seasons is they are always the same.  Summer is always hot, there is always a chance of wildfires.  The sand storm was added to the oasis, and it is always on during summer (unless you turn on rain to cancel it.)

I think we need a chance for a mild summer, or a blazing hot summer, or a blizzard winter.  A blizzard winter would basically put something similar to a moonstorm over an area slowing and obscuring if you enter it.  Then create more things like ant-lion that are like "gods of weather" that you can challenge to end these things, but must be challenged within them.  So to fight the blizzard king you must fight it in a blizzard with its own enhanced weather and other obstacles.  It doesn't have to necessarily be a boss either, it could be a puzzle you must solve, an item to find, etc.

The point being since DST doesn't have levels the way rotwood  or CotL do.  DST needs a calm standard ambiance to give players a break.  It really shouldn't try to become an ever more constant stream of BS on top of BS all the time.  Doing this we get a sort of pseudo level put upon us.  Entering this zone changes the rules and assumptions of our games.  There may be enhanced threats and many more layers of pressure added on to us but only in this event, not just added to the constant stack we always endure.  Some events could last several days by design making them more endurance tests.  Some could be more localized, while others might encompass the entire world.  A main point here is - variety.  Not everything, always, all at once but rather different things that we don't see every year like clockwork, something that we aren't prepped and waiting for the night before it spawns.

Edited by Yuuko
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22 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I think the primary thing the game needs is not more "hard" stuff, but rather more variety.  The problem with seasons is they are always the same.  Summer is always hot, there is always a chance of wildfires.  The sand storm was added to the oasis, and it is always on during summer (unless you turn on rain to cancel it.)

I think we need a chance for a mild summer, or a blazing hot summer, or a blizzard winter.  A blizzard winter would basically put something similar to a moonstorm over an area slowing and obscuring if you enter it.  Then create more things like ant-lion that are like "gods of weather" that you can challenge to end these things, but must be challenged within them.  So to fight the blizzard king you must fight it in a blizzard with its own enhanced weather and other obstacles.  It doesn't have to necessarily be a boss either, it could be a puzzle you must solve, an item to find, etc.

The point being since DST doesn't have levels the way rotwood  or CotL do.  DST needs a calm standard ambiance to give players a break.  It really shouldn't try to become an ever more constant stream of BS on top of BS all the time.  Doing this we get a sort of pseudo level put upon us.  Entering this zone changes the rules and assumptions of our games.  There may be enhanced threats and many more layers of pressure added on to us but only in this event, not just added to the constant stack we always endure.  Some events could last several days by design making them more endurance tests.  Some could be more localized, while others might encompass the entire world.  A main point here is - variety.  Not everything, always, all at once but rather different things that we don't see every year like clockwork, something that we aren't prepped and waiting for the night before it spawns.

Finally someone gets it... The lack of variety in everything unless I myself go out of my way to limit myself or anything like that is killing this game for me rn, especially with how Brightshades are with only 1 plant variant with zero variation in those waves except their numbers.

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Rain blowing items around (Maybe just in spring) would actually be kind of interesting and promote people storing their items and building a base instead of just throwing everything on the ground? lol I want this i love shipwrecked 

Edited by xDarkSoul18x
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Miasma covering certain areas would be cool

Fissures opening near the player

Enlightenment having more effects than just little gestals that are ignored with 2 must have items...

New weather and random hazards like blizzards, sw's ponds, etc

Migration of mobs. We need a mob that only spawn in summer and maybe adding insects (in summer they reproduce like crazy in my country). Hamlet's lady bugs were a great mob in many ways, I love them 

The sea needs unique weather effects like storms with waves that wet players and winds

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2 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Rain blowing items around (Maybe just in spring) would actually be kind of interesting and promote people storing their items and building a base instead of just throwing everything on the ground? lol I want this i love shipwrecked 

that would suck because you'd just be forced to get more logs and be forced to get slowed down by chests when searching for items, no need to force base building onto people that don't like it 

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6 hours ago, grm9 said:

that would suck because you'd just be forced to get more logs and be forced to get slowed down by chests when searching for items, no need to force base building onto people that don't like it 

And people who base build won't be able to drop items as decor

More harm than benefit (challenge,  fun, etc)

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Add a potassium meter. If you dont have enough you die.

 

If you have too much (by eating 82717181 bananas) you die from radiation.

10 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Rain blowing items around (Maybe just in spring) would actually be kind of interesting and promote people storing their items and building a base instead of just throwing everything on the ground? lol I want this i love shipwrecked 

Feels annoying in dst but fine in shipwrecked where your base naturally wil need walls (sand bags)

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Seasonal or random weather conditions and quirks / hazards at sea (floating ice bergs that pose a risk of crashing into and can be mined for ice, winds / currents that drag the boat and provide a cruise lane / disturbance, mists that obstructs vision and protects the boat from fires, wisps that appear in the mist and lead to treasures and have to be tracked down quickly while avoiding hazards, rare creature migrations). Make these events rather rare but impactful, to add variation over the long run. Perhaps give the ability to forecast some of them to a degree, like getting a notion of a storm without knowing its full strength, because the strength ought to be related to the level of risk and reward. Pardon for the brain storming and lack of eloquence in the post. xd

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37 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Rifts auto-starting after you defeat their boss without this whole 'would you like to enable the content' garbage

I thought they said that was a temporary measure b/c the rifts and stuff are not complete, but that it would be forced when its done (or at some point.)

Edited by Yuuko
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Just now, Yuuko said:

I though they said that was a temporary measure b/c the rifts and stuff are not complete, but that it would be forced when its done (or at some point.)

And you really believe that they'll stick to that promise? They also said that the from beyond arc would make sense after the third update, yet there's still so much left to finish, such as the lunar rifts buldozing the environment, brightshades preventing any and all creativity involving plants, acid rain being bare-bones at best

They'll most definitelly keep Wagstaff and Charlie begging you for materials cuz even if the devs wanted to remove that, casual players, who've gotten used to rifts being optional, will throw tantrums about how they can no logner farm celestial crowns without having rifts forced onto their world

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11 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I though they said that was a temporary measure b/c the rifts and stuff are not complete, but that it would be forced when its done (or at some point.)

No? It’s supposed to be similar to the Adventure Mode in Single Player where it gives you a pop up notification of entering Maxwells Doorway or moving on to the next Chapter in Adventures Mode.

I have a feeling that Klei’s overall plans for Rifts is to eventually lead up to us going to a New Version of the constant (or maybe even mutating the current version into something New…)

Like how when you would abandon the previous Campaign Chapter, and move on to the next world of tasks.

The Pop up is probably to Warn players that hey: Your About to completely change the entire way you play this game, you can stay in your current “Chapter” or move on to the next World.

But that’s just me assuming things.

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40 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

And you really believe that they'll stick to that promise? They also said that the from beyond arc would make sense after the third update, yet there's still so much left to finish, such as the lunar rifts buldozing the environment, brightshades preventing any and all creativity involving plants, acid rain being bare-bones at best

They'll most definitelly keep Wagstaff and Charlie begging you for materials cuz even if the devs wanted to remove that, casual players, who've gotten used to rifts being optional, will throw tantrums about how they can no logner farm celestial crowns without having rifts forced onto their world

idk if I would describe it as a "promise."  Just that they intended to have them turn on automatically and only backed up to add this interaction b/c the first response was overwhelmingly negative.  Now that they've power-creeped the fk out of it ppl are going to take it just for the OP weapons, the whole decision thing is already moot.  imo they should definitely pull it out now.

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No? It’s supposed to be similar to the Adventure Mode in Single Player where it gives you a pop up notification of entering Maxwells Doorway or moving on to the next Chapter in Adventures Mode.

Not at all.  It was put in as a response to the first release of these things b/c they basically opened up the doors to a lot of trash and the rewards were garbage.  After a few passes of buffing rewards (b/c planar was an absolutely worthless premise, they turned to power creep) its really not needed anymore.

Whatever fever dream you have about DS adventure mode is absolutely not what is happening here.

Edited by Yuuko
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New Weather Effects and no.. not whatever Lunar Hail & Acid rain is.

I want Weather & seasons that interacts with the environment and it’s mobs, Winter is a good example, there’s winter exclusive mobs & hazards here.

Shipwrecked and Hamlet both had their own unique “seasons” so I think it’s time DST got more than the 4 it’s had since forever..

Imagine if there was a high tides season that flooded out parts of the constant with water, which would be inhabited by oceanic mobs that can come ashore (like the crocodogs of Shipwrecked) They can even turn Skittersquid aggressive to the player during this season, like how bees and Beefalo become hostile in spring.

We just need new stuff that isn’t an optional boss fight shoved away in some obscure area.

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I like the idea of more seasonal/biome specific challenges. I think there's definitely a right and wrong way to do this though.

I don't want a hazard to roll through my base, destroying everything. I'd much prefer the usual biomes I interact with to change overtime and present new hazards. Shake up my usual chore structure with some pazzaz. Of course, this means I need reasons to actually venture into these hazards, as opposed to just waiting for them to pass.

There also needs to be readability, in my opinion. I would hate to set out for a specific quest, only to get there and realize I gotta do something completely different instead. Now I would have to head back to base, reorganize myself, ect. Though I guess that also depends on the severity of change. It's complicated gosh darn it.

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A relatively simple change that would go a massively long way in shaking up the tiring formula of DST is to simply change Weather so that it isn’t so highly predictable..

For example: You only ever need a Endo Thermic firepit during the 20 or so days that are Summer, and after that.. you can ditch needing to carry Nitre around for Cold Fires. Same thing with Winter, you’ll only need a Heated Thermal during the few days of Winter and after that.. you can ditch the Thermal.

Its predictable, and it’s repetitive and it sets DST apart from all other survival sandbox games-

Because in Ark Survival, Conan Exiles, 7 Days to Die, Lego Fortnite and even the recently released bizarrely popular- Palworlds..

All of those games have weather that alternates in and out, (like sometimes your too cold, sometimes your too hot etc..)

And DST just doesn’t HAVE that, DSTs weather is tied to the 20 day season cycle the game is stuck on repeat with.

Its a simple change-

But a change that would likely have Winter, Summer & Spring items more commonly used.

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