Ocean content buffs

[Captain_Rage]

You can stunlock and kill them easily at night at any point of the game as long as you have a boat and a weapon. Making a safe way for harvesting requires an investment. Docks are not strictly necessary depending on the map layout however. There is really no need to buff the dishes they provide.

[Masked Koopa]

8 hours ago, _zwb said:

I made a mod implementing some of those buffs

Whoah, that's really cool

[Jakepeng99]

I agree with everything, but i will discuss everything i do not agree with:

On 12/8/2023 at 12:47 AM, Masked Koopa said:

Gnarwail:

• Now spawn in pods of 2-5.
• Have herd behaviour but not mentality (won't defend each other when attacked, but will stick together)

Much too uncommon in number for the horn to be even remotely consistenly obtainable for the strident trident, and it'd generally be nice to see them more often, they are funny fellows.

It is already easy to farm horns. You passively get them from exploring the ocean which was well designed, this is way too overpowered and makes the strident feel significantly less special. We can already mass farm gnarwhales using trawlers. This would be a highly negative change.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 12:47 AM, Masked Koopa said:

Ocean fishing :

• Now gives small amounts of santity for hooking, reeling, etc.

Sanity is currently quite hard to come by, and fishing is currently a not-so-useful activity. This would handily address both issues, and make sense for such a relaxing activity.

 

This one is random and does not make sense. Fishing is stressful as you can see by the characters. Most of them find it boring.

On 12/8/2023 at 12:47 AM, Masked Koopa said:

Sunken Chest:

For reference, the current loot table:

My suggestion:

It is ok but i dont get why you removed cookie shells, fishing gear, ect.

 

 

 

Everything else i fully agree with, though i wish you touched on pirate raids, they are the worse thing klei has designed and refuses to fix and instead just reduces their chances for spawning.

[O_Atoba_Azul]

Oooh Ocean Content! My favorite!

One thing I'd love to see (and I've also implemented, with the major help of @Electroely, into my mod, Sailing Rebalance) is fish weight affecting how much loot they drop.
For example, a Black Catfish drops 1 Meat if underweight, 2 if normal and 3 if heavyweight.

Another thing is more tools to help sailing itself. Like the rudder working as an actual rudder and the captain hat increasing steering speed.

[Masked Koopa]

4 hours ago, O_Atoba_Azul said:

Oooh Ocean Content! My favorite!

One thing I'd love to see (and I've also implemented, with the major help of @Electroely, into my mod, Sailing Rebalance) is fish weight affecting how much loot they drop.
For example, a Black Catfish drops 1 Meat if underweight, 2 if normal and 3 if heavyweight.

Another thing is more tools to help sailing itself. Like the rudder working as an actual rudder and the captain hat increasing steering speed.

I think the problem with scaling meat drops is that it doesn't really make a lot of sense in terms of scale. If a rockjaw drops 4 large meat how TF is a single catfish dropping 3/4 of that amount? As for the rudder - what would you be looking for specifically? The steering wheel already essentially does what you'd expect a rudder to do, so what functionality would you be looking for?

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

If a rockjaw drops 4 large meat

they should drop a lot more for how much time they consume and how they interrupt  fishing and kill the schools you wanted to fish 

[Masked Koopa]

11 hours ago, arubaro said:

they should drop a lot more for how much time they consume and how they interrupt  fishing and kill the schools you wanted to fish 

Well it's not as though I'm saying it's right, balance wise, but rather that in terms of visuals it would seem kind of nonsense for a catfish to be dropping that much meat. I think if Klei were to add something like that it would have to be alongside fish being scaled according to weight.

[Theukon-dos]

23 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

I think the problem with scaling meat drops is that it doesn't really make a lot of sense in terms of scale. If a rockjaw drops 4 large meat how TF is a single catfish dropping 3/4 of that amount?

[Masked Koopa]

23 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

(big fish)

I think the only concern with scaling fish size to their weight would be the outline size not being quite consistent, but as long as they don't overdo it, it would be a viable solution.

On 12/10/2023 at 9:30 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

It is ok but i dont get why you removed cookie shells, fishing gear, ect.

Mostly because I don't think they bring any value to something you need the pinch n' winch to get in the first place. Why add random ocean junk to a treasure chest, that'd be like filling AG's chest with rocks and beard hair and poop and slurper pelts.

[CuteC]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:22 AM, Captain_Rage said:

Salt Crystals and Barnacles are silly easy to get once you have Docks up an going. The current stats are fine.

If you're lucky then maybe you can have decent piers to salt formations but this can't always be the case, the optimal way to harvest salt is with a boat and I don't think I have to mention how dangerous that is.

You cannot build piers to sea stacks.

On 12/8/2023 at 3:26 PM, Captain_Rage said:

You can stunlock and kill them easily at night at any point of the game as long as you have a boat and a weapon. Making a safe way for harvesting requires an investment. Docks are not strictly necessary depending on the map layout however. There is really no need to buff the dishes they provide.

You either place the seaweeds far apart from each other which will take ages to harvest or you have a cluster which will be absolutely insufferable to deal with, both being extremely inferior to goat and lureplant farms, it makes sense to buff the harder to get resource.

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, CuteC said:

If you're lucky then maybe you can have decent piers to salt formations but this can't always be the case, the optimal way to harvest salt is with a boat and I don't think I have to mention how dangerous that is

is rare to find small salt areas and they drop a lot. I dont see how salt formations is dangerous to mention it

 

9 hours ago, CuteC said:

You either place the seaweeds far apart from each other which will take ages to harvest or you have a cluster which will be absolutely insufferable to deal with, both being extremely inferior to goat and lureplant farms, it makes sense to buff the harder to get resource.

not against a buff but in one night you can get food for days

arent used because food in the main land is so easy to get

maybe they could make them drop even more so you get an absurd ammount of food for going out of your way or let us create rock turds where we want to plant them

[CuteC]

17 minutes ago, arubaro said:

is rare to find small salt areas and they drop a lot. I dont see how salt formations is dangerous to mention it

 

not against a buff but in one night you can get food for days

arent used because food in the main land is so easy to get

maybe they could make them drop even more so you get an absurd ammount of food for going out of your way or let us create rock turds where we want to plant them

Salt formations are dangerous because cookie cutters can sink your boat if not extremely careful.

Them dropping more food is meaningless, if goats and lureplants already give lots and are always available then it is not necessary to get barnacles, regardless of how much they give unless it is a ridiculous amount, them having better dishes would give them a good reason to go out of your way for them, not to mention it would pay off walking 45 km and then sailing some more.

[arubaro]

6 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Salt formations are dangerous because cookie cutters can sink your boat if not extremely careful.

Them dropping more food is meaningless, if goats and lureplants already give lots and are always available then it is not necessary to get barnacles, regardless of how much they give unless it is a ridiculous amount, them having better dishes would give them a good reason to go out of your way for them, not to mention it would pay off walking 45 km and then sailing some more.

better dishes,unless they give some kind of buff, wont matter because we have meat stew, perogies, honey dishes and bacon and eggs. You don't need dishes healing 100hp and filling 200 hunger...

if they drop even more, which already drop a good ammount, it will save time killing those goats and harvesting lure plants (awful example because, unless you play wormwood, you need to wait several years to make a farm) and their dishes can substitute the meat based dishes

[CuteC]

12 hours ago, arubaro said:

better dishes,unless they give some kind of buff, wont matter because we have meat stew, perogies, honey dishes and bacon and eggs. You don't need dishes healing 100hp and filling 200 hunger...

if they drop even more, which already drop a good ammount, it will save time killing those goats and harvesting lure plants (awful example because, unless you play wormwood, you need to wait several years to make a farm) and their dishes can substitute the meat based dishes

You're not taking into account availability, you can have goat and lureplant farms next to base while you're doomed to having seaweeds out in the ocean, taking it super long to get there and the dishes that they make are not good at all, so those are two reasons not to go there, if the dishes were like really good then people would go out of their way to get say a better healing item.

[Masked Koopa]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

better dishes,unless they give some kind of buff, wont matter because we have meat stew, perogies, honey dishes and bacon and eggs. You don't need dishes healing 100hp and filling 200 hunger...

if they drop even more, which already drop a good ammount, it will save time killing those goats and harvesting lure plants (awful example because, unless you play wormwood, you need to wait several years to make a farm) and their dishes can substitute the meat based dishes

The time taken walking to and back from the deep ocean exceeds the time taken to harvest lureplants or goats, and that's ignoring the fact that barnacles have a meat value of 0.25, so they can't even be used for meaty stew. And I should point out that the stats I suggested aren't beyond the bounds of what other, similar dishes already provide.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

Agree with all of this. Ocean content for me is literally just a quest for bull kelp and the necessary pearl and crab king. I also think the waterlogged biome should be given more purpose, but at least that biome has the beeg trees.

[Antynomity]

If these were to make their way into the game tomorrow I would be the happiest sailor in DST history!!!

[chirsg]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:14 PM, O_Atoba_Azul said:

Oooh Ocean Content! My favorite!

One thing I'd love to see (and I've also implemented, with the major help of @Electroely, into my mod, Sailing Rebalance) is fish weight affecting how much loot they drop.
For example, a Black Catfish drops 1 Meat if underweight, 2 if normal and 3 if heavyweight.

Another thing is more tools to help sailing itself. Like the rudder working as an actual rudder and the captain hat increasing steering speed.

I'd make black catfish worth 2 fish straight out. That way, you could put 1 fresh catfish in a crockpot and 3 monster meat. 

[O_Atoba_Azul]

3 hours ago, chirsg said:

I'd make black catfish worth 2 fish straight out. That way, you could put 1 fresh catfish in a crockpot and 3 monster meat. 

Unfortunetly, you can't edit food crockpot values on the fly, due to how the system works. 

[Masked Koopa]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:31 PM, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Agree with all of this. Ocean content for me is literally just a quest for bull kelp and the necessary pearl and crab king. I also think the waterlogged biome should be given more purpose, but at least that biome has the beeg trees.

Grass gators are also an excellent source of twigs so I think the biome is pretty alright.

On 12/17/2023 at 1:08 AM, O_Atoba_Azul said:

Unfortunetly, you can't edit food crockpot values on the fly, due to how the system works. 

I think chrisg meant as a baseline, not determined by weight.

[CuteC]

Well with the shark person now we got a probably good way to move along the massive ocean faster, wish we had a reason to do so though, it is completely empty.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

On 12/18/2023 at 2:21 PM, Masked Koopa said:

Grass gators are also an excellent source of twigs so I think the biome is pretty alright.

My problem with that is that I'm never going to go out of my way to get twigs from grass gators. It's much better to just plant some twiggy trees or saplings at base. A good biome (imo) incentivizes you to go out of your way for its resources. I just think waterlogged needs one more incentive besides the tree nuts (and striders for Webber) so players are encouraged to find the biome. Most players don't even use the giant trees anyway, and they're kinda laggy.

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

My problem with that is that I'm never going to go out of my way to get twigs from grass gators. It's much better to just plant some twiggy trees or saplings at base. A good biome (imo) incentivizes you to go out of your way for its resources. I just think waterlogged needs one more incentive besides the tree nuts (and striders for Webber) so players are encouraged to find the biome. Most players don't even use the giant trees anyway, and they're kinda laggy.

you can telelocate gators to a pen so they produce resources where you want

you can get fireflies in the biome

i think waterlogged biome is the least in need of something biome out there

[Masked Koopa]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:09 PM, CuteC said:

Well with the shark person now we got a probably good way to move along the massive ocean faster, wish we had a reason to do so though, it is completely empty.

I think the shark person adds some incentive to go ocean fishing but I feel like it would be better if she asked for specific fish species so we don't just use trident farming or deep sea bass shoals.

[CuteC]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:48 AM, Masked Koopa said:

I think the shark person adds some incentive to go ocean fishing but I feel like it would be better if she asked for specific fish species so we don't just use trident farming or deep sea bass shoals.

What if they also asked for barnacles? That would give them some use and perhaps you could have small amounts of barnacles growing on random sea stacks while seaweeds yield bigger rewards, I dunno just throwing ideas out there.