Willow skillset - Overview & Quality of Life suggestions

[Sapientis]

Here are my thoughts of Willow's skills and how I would adjust or change them.
Overall I think they are really good, but still need some loving touch to make Willow fun to play.

This is my feedback for developers but also for fellow players to bounce some feelings and expiriences testing new Willow, feel free to share yours thoughts on the matter.

As a side note, seeing Wigfrid's skilltree (which I'll play when she goes live), I think we should get more unlockable skills by a certain action, it's fun and interactive. Waiting for all 15 Insight points was a looong time, I'd consider giving some basic points at the start, even 3-5 would be good to work with, or just lower the amount of time between points.
Maybe even give additional points for killing Boss Enemies?
You know, waiting is the least attractive way of getting something. And it promotes inactivity.

 

-LIGHTER-

Controlled Burning
This has good and needed upgrades to Willow if she wants to fight enemies set on fire, but the inability to spread fire is somewhat problematic... Yes, it prevents some unwanted fires, but it also prevents some wanted fires. I find it cumbersome to use Hot Embers on a Flame Cast for Willow's sanity station (the one where you ignite a grass near 40*1 Rope/Boards and sit on top of it, then put the fire down).
I don't really see a fix for that though... Maybe make the inability to spread fires exclusive for Willow's Lighter and allow her to set normal, naturally spreading fires with torches?

Burn Duration and Fire Fighter
These are nice, would be good to include actual values, like 50% longer or 75% more damage. Descriptions are just too vague for a casual player to understand how much value the skill gives them (and whether it's worth taking it or not). Does the damage increase each second or does it just deal more damage every second, or the same damage but more frequently? Description says none of that.

Brighter Lighter I and II
I saw they give a lot of range, which is great, also refueling the Lighter with Embers feels awesome. I personally would like to be able to refuel the Lighter with Nightmare Fuel, because of how much Willow tends to get it (it could be even 10-25%), as well as those Embers.
These skills should also increase range of Absorbing Fires and Collecting Hot Embers...

Hungry Lighter
This is fun (and needed), but the range is super small, the problem of not being able to extinguish a Beebox is really bad, so I hope we'll get some basic upgrade, but I'd like the range to be increased by Brighter Lighter skills according to increased brightness.
Like... The range is reeeaaallly small, you cannot even stop a nearby forest "accidently" set on fire by a flaming Batilisk dropping a burning Guano between trees (true story). 

Ember Tender
Fun, just please increase the range slightly. Or decrease this strange slow, it's a good mechanic, but the slow is a little too strong in my opinion.
Also I don't see why Lighter cannot just collect Embers on t's own when it's held (like Wortox just sucks souls from air).
Also, because it's not a separate skill:
->Flame Cast
This is ok to aggro some mobs from distance, like Volt Goats or Tall Birds, probably Koalefants or Ewecus. It can even be used to farm Birds (shame they don't give Hot Embers while Bees do...).
The problem I have with this is its small area of effect and instant duration, so it's tricky to hit several or fast enemies like Krampii. I would make the igniting Flame Cast last for 0.5-1 second to be able to cast it safely and run if something is chasing Willow. This would be a good QoL change.

Spontaneous Combustion
This is bugged for me, I lose connection and get rolled back every time I use it, but it seems ok from what I've seen. I personally would add just a little base damage on top of igniting, so you could reliably use it to farm hordes of bees for example. Even the lowest 17 or 34 damage would amp up this skill's value a lot because it's quite costly. This would also allow Willow to use Combustion to clear Woven Shadows for example. I wonder if it's not too expensive, but I couldn't really play with it, so I can't argue. I guess you can just cast it once and get a lot Hot Embers back while Spiders/Bees panic, but it costs a lot on paper, not counting its use. Idk. For the record: I don't mind 4 Hot Embers for that if it works without crash

Fire Ball
This is really fun, I wonder if it's not too cheap? I'd say 3 Embers would still be a fair price. I would also increase its duration just a tiny bit to let's say 10 minutes, so if you summon it after the night starts it could last through the next night for those shorter nights of Autumn/Summer.

Burning Frenzy
This is great on paper BUT when it comes to gameplay there are some problems. I feel that using a lighter during fight is stupid, what if this skill would surround Willow in fire and make her attacks ignite your enemy no matter the weapon? That way you can cast Burning Frenzy, it would actually be a Burning Frenzy, because Willow would be burning and she would get frenzied, dealing a little more damage and igniting her targets. That way it can also act as a basic buff to damage if that was the idea behind this ability, but it can also only act as igniting attacks and more damage against burning enemies.
This ability is in dire need of costing 3 Hot Embers instead of 2. Fire Ball is great, but it's just an utility, this, on the other hand, is a very strong combat ability, so 3 Hot Embers is a fair price, especially with the changes I suggest, which not only improve user expirience but also increase potential DPS (even more against many weak enemies).
I also see a lot of people arguing about this ability being strong, yet there are a lot of Bosses and even some smaller yet strong enemies who cannot be set on fire (Depth Worms, Tentapillars, Tentacles, Merms, etc.)

Shadow/Lunar Fire-Raiser
Great finial of the Lighter skills! Both feel grand and powerfull, I personally would make Shadow version deal a lot single target damage to the last enemy hit and Lunar version deal decent Areal damage, so we don't end up with Lunar being always superior (as it is now, I suppose).
Both of these should also yield Hot Embers, I'm down to make them ignite enemies hit, it's fire we're talking about, after all, even if it's Shadow or Lunar Fire.

 

-BERNIE-

Patch Up I and II
This seems just straigt up bad and frankly quite unnecessary. Bernie only regenerates health with enemies nearby, so the health restored is extremely low. I would link regeneration with Bernie being animated, so he always passively restores health over time like Abigail, which would combo with the next ability...

Bearly Sane I and II
Those are good, but the problem is, Bernie will still spawn and fight Nightmare Creatures, which will lower his health for some useless Nightmare Fuel. It might be used to regain extra Sanity, which I appreciate, but the really annoying thing is that Bernie will actively try to last hit Nightmare Creatures which doesn't restore Sanity for Willow. If Bernie is Willow's sanity guardian him killing Nightmare Creatures SHOULD give Willow Sanity!
You can aggro those Nightmare Creatures using Force Attack, but it drops the aggro from time to time, because they don't want to fight Willow above certain Sanity, so you won't be able to hit it and then Bernie will come and take the kill, giving you no sanity at all.

Accelerant I and II
Not really worth it, because Bernie's speed is decent, he only stays behind if he does this strange animation or fights something for no reason.
This skill would be much better if it just kept Bernie closer, for example by triggering his following command on a shorter distance from Willow.

Tough Stuffing I and II
I think my summary of Patch Up could also be pasted here. Bernie just gets 600 health more, meh... This skill is more valuable, because it's just 600 health and not some regeneration linked to fighting. The real deal would be giving Bernie some flat 5->10->15 defense or 10%->20%->30% armor. I'd make this skill having 3 skills and remove Accelerant II to be honest.

Hot Headed
I don't know about this ability too much, I don't get how it's supposed to work, because Bernie still fights those enemies without this skill?

Burning Bernie
This seems fun, on paper Bernie can get damage reflect and all, but the cost of this is not taking Fire-Raiser skills which are just too powerfull to be omitted. Locking this behind 8 Bernie skills (some of which are quite useless/unnecessary) makes it hard to take and it hurts me, because it is a cool skill. It is cool, but let's be honest, it's not as good (or even as cool) as Fire-Riser skills.
By design I understand this skill is to be taken if someone hasn't defeated AFW nor CC, but even then the requirement should be at most 7 Bernie skills, not 8. You need 4 in top half to take Tough Stuffing I and II, then you should be able to take Hot-Headed and Burning Bernie, summing up in 8 Bernie Skills and 7 Lighter Skills.

Shadow/Lunar Bernie
Great Idea! Good design, just please make Bernie skin(s?) work with this skill. Please.

For BERNIE skills I feel bad to be forced to take those and probably drop Brighter Lighter I and II if I wish to take both AFFINITY part skills. Ever since Willow's rework I felt she's ok, but has some problems she could have had fixed and which Wendy rework got spot on. Bernie itself is in odd place, he's quite cheap to craft and you even start with it, and on top of that you can instantly sew  it back to 100% durability (2000 health) for 1.6 Silk, 0.4 Hound's Tooth and 0.2 Log, which is ridiculous to think of. You cannot make something that cheap a pivot of a character's whole gameplay.
I'd rather have Bernie not being repairable by a Sewing Kit. Maybe make Willow craft a special Bernie Sewing Kit or make it repairable with Hot Embers? I cannot feel good about Willow just sewing it on the go like a pair of socks, it just feels wrong and I think it's hard to talk about balance if Bernie's whole existance depends on how many Sewing Kits Willow can carry...

Hot Embers Fire Casting
It has been said before, but I think it bears repeating, the icons of Casts are hard to tell apart, their contrast is low (as hell), my color blindness of red-green doesn't help that (protanopy and deuteranopy are the most common types of color blindness).
The icons should either have different shapes, colors or have much more distinctive images, because we have 5 more or less circular flames. Shadow/Lunar Flame is super visible (due to different color) and Flame Cast is somewhat easier to distinguish because of thicker line and Hot Ember's shape, but the 3 remaining are just way too similar. So you have to either remember what is where on the wheel (and it changes depending on skills chosen) or read the descriptions.
For example make Burning Frenzy a mad Willow aflame, Fire Ball a small but thick line flame and Combustion a starshaped blast. They need to be descriptive and intuitive. Now we have 5 flames, it's on theme, but useless. Still kudos to artists, hope to see new creations :*

 

Some strange bugs I found:
- Trees set on fire, then Absorbed still drop smoldering loot.
- Charcoal dropping from well-fueled Fire Pit drops smoldering and it burned my whole base... (edit: this happened twice already, why do fires spread off-screen btw?? I literally jumped out of my intact base throught a wormhole!) I don't know if it's a feature of Willow's somehow, or maybe if edit: I'm pretty sure it was caused by the place of the Fire Pit (I casted Fire Balls on its place from time to time before).
- Malbatross I killed with Lunar Flame dropped no Malbatross Bill, Malbatross itself could have been on fire in the moment of death (cannot tell for sure), it might not be a bug if the Bill itself is flammable, which I don't actually know and always assumed it wasn't (is it?) edit: Yes, it is :<

[-Variant]

55 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

but it also prevents some wanted fires

I'd be fine with them removing it for set fires and keeping it for mobs. It's super nice on mobs since they panic, but otherwise it makes starting spreading fires too cumbersome. Making it only apply to the Torch would also work but I'd rather not need to carry both a Torch and my lighter.

56 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

what if this skill would surround Willow in fire and make her attacks ignite your enemy no matter the weapon?

I made this exact suggestion here!
It keeps what other people like about Frenzy and adds so much more to it!!

58 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

Hot Embers Fire Casting

I made another thread going over those, here.
I think something really cute would be to style them all after Willow's lighter. Give them more color and flair! The bright red really sticks out.

59 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

Hot Headed

Supposedly it makes Bernie attacks aligned things on his own without needing to taunt, or so I've been told. I can't get it to work at all, but my friends say getting this lets Bernie kill Shadow Chester and Glommer as soon as he sees them. 

[Sapientis]

14 minutes ago, -Variant said:

I made another thread going over those, here.

Yes, I was thinking about your idea when mentioning it, thanks for bringing this thread up!

 

[Yuuko]

For fire spreading - there was a suggestion that you could just light a second time to get standard fire and I think that would work easily enough.

I don't mind how burning frenzy works, or swapping to the lighter for an attack, but I feel its duration is a bit low.  With only 30 seconds active what I find is tough is I either have to light an enemy, then back off to cast it, then reengage or to cast it first, then go up and light and fight.  Both of these break the flow and waste time - and with just 30 seconds duration any time wasted is significant.  I think making it a toggle state that eats embers over time until you turn it off would give us better control over our openings to use it.  I don't think having attacks ignite enemies during Burning Frenzy is good b/c that is also the condition for bonus damage...  but idk.

I did a thread on what I think the Bernie skill tree should be - because right now it is basically nothing.  Absolutely forgettable.  Burning Bernie can be good in farming spiders, shadow monkeys, etc but its not a whole play style.  Nothing in the tree solves the main problems with Bernie being unusable in lunacy and very tough to use when you need to change your sanity mid-fight.

[blacknight7890]

2 hours ago, Sapientis said:

Burning Frenzy

Personally, I would also have it set willow on fire, but then increase your attack speed. It's straight up more dps since you hit faster, its not conditional, and willow being on fire deals passive fire damage to anything nearby. Would also be nice if it made you resistant/immune to freezing.

It would fit the name a lot better, and would be very on brand for how wild willow can be.

[Mysterious box]

This will probably be a controversial take but maybe it's time to give Bernie the abigial treatment and make Bernie linked to Willow while active even if this means Willow can't have multiple Bernies while active.

[GenomeSquirrel]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This will probably be a controversial take but maybe it's time to give Bernie the abigial treatment and make Bernie linked to Willow while active even if this means Willow can't have multiple Bernies while active.

You’d need to be more specific, like do you mean if a linked Giant Bernie dies the others are inert as a pile of grass or function as minis, hp sponge against insanity creatures only,  but can’t become large (barring other Willows)

[xhyom]

33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This will probably be a controversial take but maybe it's time to give Bernie the abigial treatment and make Bernie linked to Willow while active even if this means Willow can't have multiple Bernies while active.

But Willow can't have multiple Bernies  

[GenomeSquirrel]

2 minutes ago, xhyom said:

But Willow can't have multiple Bernies  

I make Bernie armies as a hobby

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

For fire spreading - there was a suggestion that you could just light a second time to get standard fire and I think that would work easily enough.

[somethin]

I think the ability for Willow to not spread fire should be limited to burning mobs and things set on fire by her lighter only. It make sense, she has her lighter since she was a child, so she has much more control over it more than your run of the mill torch/fire staff.

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

You’d need to be more specific, like do you mean if a linked Giant Bernie dies the others are inert as a pile of grass or function as minis, hp sponge against insanity creatures only,  but can’t become large (barring other Willows)

To be more clear I mean if you could directly link a Bernie to Willow while linked even when inactive would teleport to Willow when you left the screen like followers however in exchange other Bernies wouldn't turn big for you no matter what while you were linked to your specific Bernie. In other words we'd lose Bernie chaining giving more incentive to make our Bernie more durable but allow Bernie to operate more smoothly while active though assuming this change did happen I'd say we would need a hp bar for Bernie like we got for Abigail. Theoretically however we could just make it so holding a Bernie then right clicking on it while held links you to that Bernie allowing you to Bernie chain with extra steps.

Basically this is just a around about idea on how to help the game determine who our Bernie to allow it to keep it with us easier.

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

To be more clear I mean if you could directly link a Bernie to Willow while linked even when inactive would teleport to Willow when you left the screen like followers however in exchange other Bernies wouldn't turn big for you no matter what while you were linked to your specific Bernie. In other words we'd lose Bernie chaining giving more incentive to make our Bernie more durable but allow Bernie to operate more smoothly while active though assuming this change did happen I'd say we would need a hp bar for Bernie like we got for Abigail. Theoretically however we could just make it so holding a Bernie then right clicking on it while held links you to that Bernie allowing you to Bernie chain with extra steps.

Basically this is just a around about idea on how to help the game determine who our Bernie to allow it to keep it with us easier.

If we got an ember spell to heal him I'd be okay with this change.  I think we only need multiple Bernies b/c we can't do anything to keep a Bernie alive once its out.  We can only restore our sanity or wait for it to die to pick it up.  Linking Willow to a single Bernie would also let them give us a health bar like Abi which would let us be more active in how we use him.

[Mysterious box]

41 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

If we got an ember spell to heal him I'd be okay with this change.  I think we only need multiple Bernies b/c we can't do anything to keep a Bernie alive once its out.  We can only restore our sanity or wait for it to die to pick it up.  Linking Willow to a single Bernie would also let them give us a health bar like Abi which would let us be more active in how we use him.

I agree.

[Captain_Rage]

Wouldn't it make more sense to give an item to paint an area in which fire won't spread? Then the player would have to plan a little before setting something on fire. That could be a bit tedious in the long run though.

Or to set a cap of targets that can be on fire under control. If the number of targets under controlled fire is exceeded they will start to burn normally.

Currently setting a myriad of spiders on fire without the fire spreading looks retarded, not the mention how powerful that skill is.