End game content

[LitulLola]

I think a lot of ppl are forgetting that this year they are focusing on endgame content for the first time. Every other update since world settings has been for sandbox gameplay and/or has fit within those "rules"(If it can't be ignored or have a one craft solution it has been deemed " bad" by a huge section of the player base) 

But now it seems as tho sandbox players won't even allow Klei to make endgame content unless it also fits into their sandbox gameplay too. I just think that it's kinda selfish to insist all mechanics of this game fall under your style of play no matter what. There are players who would really enjoy content that can't be ignored or fixed by a single craft so why not let this year be largely dedicated to that style of play for once? I don't really understand, there were ways to experience this content but then toggle it off so it didn't affect the way you want to play the game, so why was that not enough for you? 

This has just made me frustrated and sad.

[00petar00]

Firstly, endgame content doesn't mean survival mechanics that keep bothering the player permanently without a solution.

I want more difficulty, I want more bosses and more things to do, I want ocean to be more populated and I want the same to happen to caves but there will always be a limit to how many survival mechanics that have to be permanently managed that players are willing to accept.

This always comes down to survival vs sandbox which I partially agree is happening but there is much more that can be done that doesn't make either group dislike new features.

It can also be said that it is selfish to make mechanic stay the same as klei introduced when it doesn't affect the playerbase that wants it to be left without changes.

Like you keep telling us that we rifts are optional, so are the sturctures that you can build that protect you from said mechanics, so why don't you stop building them if that is the issue? Obviously it is much easier for you to do that instead of asking builders to ignore a year or longer of updates that rifts are going to keep receiving.

So many people use the argument that rifts are optional when they really at the core are not, you are losing so much if you don't activate them and klei will keep adding more content to the rifts. That's like saying you can play a game that gets regular updates without the said updates for a year or longer which isn't really an option.

[LitulLola]

Every update has followed the sandbox gameplay rules for year's! So no I don't think it's too much to ask that a part of this years updates be dedicated to a different style of play.

I'm not asking for anything outside of the rifts content to go against your (and mine) style of play. I'm not asking for endless mass destruction either. Do I want to battle destruction endlessly, no. But when I do want that type of challenge, I'd like that option. Option being the key word, you aren't even allowing the option of a different style of play! And that's what's sad. 

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I want more difficulty, I want more bosses and more things to do, I want ocean to be more populated and I want the same to happen to caves

But only if it follows your rules (hence the issue) I want this content too and believe it will continue to come once the rifts are completed. I don't see that changing.

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Like you keep telling us that we rifts are optional, so are the sturctures that you can build that protect you from said mechanics, so why don't you stop building them if that is the issue?

Not sure what you mean here. All mechanics were nerfed for sandbox. Do you mean boulders in the caves?

[00petar00]

11 hours ago, LitulLola said:

Every update has followed the sandbox gameplay rules for year's! So no I don't think it's too much to ask that a part of this years updates be dedicated to a different style of play.

I'm not asking for anything outside of the rifts content to go against your (and mine) style of play. I'm not asking for endless mass destruction either. Do I want to battle destruction endlessly, no. But when I do want that type of challenge, I'd like that option. Option being the key word, you aren't even allowing the option of a different style of play! And that's what's sad. 

But only if it follows your rules (hence the issue) I want this content too and believe it will continue to come once the rifts are completed. I don't see that changing.

Not sure what you mean here. All mechanics were nerfed for sandbox. Do you mean boulders in the caves?

What is the challenge that you want to see?

The reason we got pillars is because boulders were a terrible mechanic when they were first introduced in the beta, it was so bad that klei had to make them not drop over your buildings that it looked comical until pillars were added. Both hail and boulders aren't really challenges. How does hail killing mobs make the game difficult for survival? What about boulders that destroy structures with minimal time to respond? Both of these aren't going to stop me from surviving indefinitely.

Hail killing a creature every once in a while wouldn't have an effect on any other playstyle except sandbox? It was "nerfed" in a way that it is almost the same to everyone except builders.

My guess on what players like you want from the discussions I've had on the forums is to have new mechanics like wildfires, something that you can't turn off or fight effectively on a large scale and will always be there.

How does basing in oasis, making a dock base that is completely covered in knobby trees or spending every summer in caves make the game more fun?

[Mysterious box]

13 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Firstly, endgame content doesn't mean survival mechanics that keep bothering the player permanently without a solution.

I want more difficulty, I want more bosses and more things to do, I want ocean to be more populated and I want the same to happen to caves but there will always be a limit to how many survival mechanics that have to be permanently managed that players are willing to accept.

This always comes down to survival vs sandbox which I partially agree is happening but there is much more that can be done that doesn't make either group dislike new features.

It can also be said that it is selfish to make mechanic stay the same as klei introduced when it doesn't affect the playerbase that wants it to be left without changes.

Like you keep telling us that we rifts are optional, so are the sturctures that you can build that protect you from said mechanics, so why don't you stop building them if that is the issue? Obviously it is much easier for you to do that instead of asking builders to ignore a year or longer of updates that rifts are going to keep receiving.

So many people use the argument that rifts are optional when they really at the core are not, you are losing so much if you don't activate them and klei will keep adding more content to the rifts. That's like saying you can play a game that gets regular updates without the said updates for a year or longer which isn't really an option.

It's a matter of perspective really for example if Klei added in the base game buttons that any player could access that instantly kills all bosses giving their loot and allowed them to store infinite crafting resources with unbreakable items that use 0 durability do you think the player base at large would have a problem? Maybe you don't but I'm sure most people would despite the same argument of you could just not use it applying.

[CameoAppearance]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It's a matter of perspective really for example if Klei added in the base game buttons that any player could access that instantly kills all bosses giving their loot and allowed them to store infinite crafting resources with unbreakable items that use 0 durability do you think the player base at large would have a problem? Maybe you don't but I'm sure most people would despite the same argument of you could just not use it applying.

Those exist, they're called console commands. (Ironically not available on consoles.)

[Capybara007]

Ahh yes some more megabasers ruin the game dont let klei add challenge thread, you love to see one of these

@LitulLolahow do you get benefited from a player that gets their decoration destroyed, how does that make your game more challenging, how does that make your game more fun, because you certainly never built anything that is decoration

[Capybara007]

You are not gonna say anything?

[Szczuku]

3 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

You are not gonna say anything?

[Capybara007]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

True

[landromat]

"oh no my decorations getting destroyed. This is annoying and not challenging, remove it"

Sometimes megabasers are more irritating than webber mains

[Mike23Ua]

14 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Ahh yes some more megabasers ruin the game dont let klei add challenge thread, you love to see one of these

@LitulLolahow do you get benefited from a player that gets their decoration destroyed, how does that make your game more challenging, how does that make your game more fun, because you certainly never built anything that is decoration

From MY Perspective- Having your base get damaged & destroyed where you have to repair it is a core (& honestly quite vital..) part of the Gameplay Loop in any Survival Sandbox game.

Its literally WHY Creepers Exist in Minecraft..

Its Why Flaming Zombies Exist in 7 Days to Die..

Its Why Dinosaurs can attack and damage your structures in Ark Survival Evolved..

Its why Crocodiles Spawn and attempt to eat your Walls in Conan Exiles..

If you remove the survival aspect from a Survival Sandbox, all you have left is the Sandbox.

& perhaps the silliest part in this entire conversation? The game literally has Content Sliders so you can choose what parts of the game are turned on, what parts of the game are turned off, what parts of the game effect you more often, what parts of the game effect you less often..

You can even in some cases change the Behavior of things by changing these settings.

So why people get “up in arms” over people maybe wanting some unavoidable destructive elements, or to have the games content NOT politely try very hard not to spawn in my base I truly don’t understand..

Its literally why walls take damage and show visual damage, and can be repaired.

The problem only comes in when people don’t WANT to spend their time repairing things…

But in the examples I listed above: that’s kinda a core part of the gameplay loop in Survival Sandbox games.

[MondayNight]

11 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

You are not gonna say anything?

Hover over that user's nick, they haven't re-logged for more than 24h. Most likely will respond at some future point.

 

On topic at hand, indeed Sandbox facet of the game got majority of them updates over the years, yet Survival side got minimal attention. With this year's (and onward) "From Beyond" arc hinted progression mechanics plus harder setups post 1st AFw&CC take-downs - namely Rifts content - seems KLei is willing to give a go at Survival too. Still certain people complained that's too little too late, especially after devs numerically tuned down the likes of Monkey Rides, Acid Rain, Earthquake boulders. Or the fact KLei also gave pretty much instant solutions to all the new environmental problems they introduced (except to Deadly Brightshades, hinted at being turned down in frequency after more Lunar Rift mobs will be introduced). And then same Survival enthusiasts gave the example of "Uncompromising Mode" mod as a way to go at this post-Rifts supposed content. Hence I suppose OP would desire indeed mechanics that will be destructive to base, mobs and especially to characters, from the perspective building-oriented players - not necessarily to "spite" base-builders, but in the global realm of hard Survival content; a consequence if you will.

[Capybara007]

This wouldnt be an issue if the people claiming to want more endgame challenge wouldve actually played an endgame world lol

In the endgame players have no issue with food because you usually put many stacks in a bundle wrap and carry it for 1 or 2 ingame years, players also have no problems with hound waves since they can hide in their arena for hound waves witb houndious shootious they setup, and they have no problem with temperature because of star and moon callers

How about suggestions stiff like a hound that can dig holes to avoid walls or statues? How about yall suggest actuall good suggestions that would make lategame challenging instead of this dogwater "destroying decorstion challenging!"

3 hours ago, landromat said:

"oh no my decorations getting destroyed. This is annoying and not challenging, remove it"

Sometimes megabasers are more irritating than webber mains

Prove why destroying decoration affects your survival and is challenging

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

From MY Perspective- Having your base get damaged & destroyed where you have to repair it is a core (& honestly quite vital..) part of the Gameplay Loop in any Survival Sandbox game.

In literally all the games you mentioned those things can be avoided easily by the player and the damage they create is not permanent

Prove why destroying decoration affects your survival and makes the game challenging

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

not necessarily to "spite" base-builders, but in the global real of hard Survival content; a consequence if you will.

I get there are people that like this, for some reason, but it would be a big mistake if klei kept making things like unavoidable destruction, even if the mayority of players werent megabasers and you could toggle it in the settings

[Dr.Webber]

4 hours ago, landromat said:

 

Sometimes megabasers are more irritating than webber mains

I bag your pardon why is being a Webber main San ominous with being annoying  

[Mike23Ua]

I honestly feel like some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing  & I’m not even going to entertain the thought of that.

I will however say that to the people asking me to prove how having your walls be targeted and destroyed is a survival challenge, I can equally ask them to prove how it Isn’t.

People have varying different preferences and playstyles, and for the past 5 years Survival Content has taken a BackSeat to the ability to build huge comfy bases, the reason there’s been a recent uprising in players wanting more survival based content is because of that probably.

[Capybara007]

Dude stop avoiding the question i did not said walls i said decoration

How is destroying decoration harmful to survival, answer the question mike

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

Dude stop avoiding the question i did not said walls i said decoration

How is destroying decoration harmful to survival, answer the question mike

Define what you consider a “Decoration”?

[Capybara007]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Define what you consider a “Decoration”?

A square of fences with thulecite walls at the corners that trap an artificial setpiece of beeboxes, berry bushes and flowers

The walls are useless, because nothing is gonna break them, and them breaking does not change anything, the bee boxes either, because megabasers usually put a huge bee box complex somewhere else

I think what you imagine by walls is me making a square of stone walls around my base to protect myself from hounds i guess?

Its still a strawman, i did not said walls i said decoration

Now explain why do you think an structure made by the player with the sole purpose of looking pleasing to the eye needs to be destroyed for survival

[Mike23Ua]

Your using fences and walls to contain things inside or out of them.. in my case- It was Carrats.

Having this get destroyed means the mobs I have contained inside of it break free and scatter about the map.

Which gives me a new task of either: A trying to catch them and put them all back, or B: Get new ones to place in the pens.

How does that = Survival challenge? Because it’s giving me something to actually do that could potentially take my concentration off my health or my sanity and then in a panic I scramble to try to find food or sanity restoration items.

YOUR very specific problem comes into play that you know too much about the game- you don’t struggle with sanity or hunger anymore, and to you having a Brightshade spawn in your pen, smash your fences and let all your Carrats out would only be seen as an annoying task.

Theres a REASON Brightshades are coded to spawn on Grass, Twigs, And Berry Bushes- and that’s because they aren’t just “Decoration” people use them for day to day activities and resources.

[Capybara007]

Ok then, add a brightshade repelent, i use it and my decoration is in peace, you  ignore it and get raided all you want

And im not going to disable brightshades because that would be limiting myself to new content

[MondayNight]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Define what you consider a “Decoration”?

Superfluous/useless staff that is just put there to look generally pretty, like:

Nothing in prtscrn above has any functional use, aside the lamps and some of the chests. All rest is for aesthetic soothing. (more stuff from same camp in spoiler below) Just a tiny example; dedicated base builders use a lot more, especially objects placed on ground to make base look interestingly pleasing to the eye and nothing else. Sure, is a bon when said decorations have also functional purpose, but those walls for example wont stop anything (since they aren't in a pathfinder exploit configuration).
 

Spoiler

[Mysterious box]

21 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

Those exist, they're called console commands. (Ironically not available on consoles.)

I'm talking about without console commands though accessible in a multiplayer setting I feel like that was obvious otherwise I would have used settings instead.

[_zwb]

57 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can equally ask them to prove how it Isn’t.

Because destroying my decorational shrine has no effect on my survival. It's a decoration, it produces 0 resources and serves 0 survival function, it's just for the look.

Say if I build a little garden with fancy walls and statues, and maybe some flowers, how's that benefiting my survival at all? Hence how's destroying it threatening my survival?

[Popian]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:06 AM, 00petar00 said:

asking builders to ignore a year or longer of updates that rifts are going to keep receiving.

If a building restriction were introduced and you have an existing world with areas that are not "to code" this is what you can do:

1. Stay on your existing world with the restriction enabled and remodel, potentially undoing some work.
2. Stay on your existing world with the restriction enabled and ignore the restriction, dealing with the consequences of not following it.
3. Stay on your existing world with the restriction disabled and finish your pending projects.
4. Start a new world with the restriction enabled and build accordingly.

It may be a bit insensitive to require that of someone, but if there is a good reason for such a change people will eventually adapt.