With the arrival of the ice crystaleyezer, its about time we fixed the wildfire loading exploits

[EatenCheetos]

The amount of people that leave their base during summer because wildfires can’t load offscreen is huge, I consider this one of the games biggest exploits.

In the past few updates, we have gotten 2 huge ways to combat wildfires — being the above average trees and the ice crystaleyezer — so I think it’s time to address this problem.

Obviously the entire world can’t be kept loaded at all times, but I’m sure there exists a programming trick to fix this.

[CuteC]

This seems awfully familiar.

You are aware this is a change that would be applied globally right, meaning that during the first summer everything would just burn.

Also "huge ways", one requires stuff being near water and the other requires a LOT of rare materials, you are not doing either of those on first summer, new players would be even LESS likely.

Wildfires not existing outside your screen is not a game limitation, it is a design choice, not a single person would play dst if the entire world went poof during first summer.

[-Variant]

I don't think this is an ideal approach at all.

I get it, I'm usually the first one to come around to advocate for harsher threats and conditions but this one is one of the few that I think ought to stay as it is.

The Icecrystaleyezer doesn't even fit into the 'viable workarounds' list, it's one latest game items you could possibly get.
Tree canopies aren't exactly early game, either.

[Jakepeng99]

54 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

The amount of people that leave their base during summer because wildfires can’t load offscreen is huge, I consider this one of the games biggest exploits.

In the past few updates, we have gotten 2 huge ways to combat wildfires — being the above average trees and the ice crystaleyezer — so I think it’s time to address this problem.

Obviously the entire world can’t be kept loaded at all times, but I’m sure there exists a programming trick to fix this.

The final boss of dst is not cc or fuelweaver, it is this person.

[Popian]

This could work if Ice Flingomatics worked too (and maybe buffed to last at least 15 days) and everything was more renewable as everything else doesn't smolder, but then it'd be like what's the point (getting rid of Rot?) when you return to an area a season or two later to notice things have slightly moved. Temporarily losing access to plants is covered by withering already.

[EatenCheetos]

It just doesn’t make sense to leave a base completely unprotected, then come back s if nothing happened. It’s an exploit and a potent one too

If wildfires become too bad, then Klei can nerf them in some other way. Encouraging the abuse of mechanics is not the way though

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

Wildfires not existing outside your screen is not a game limitation, it is a design choice, not a single person would play dst if the entire world went poof during first summer.

It’s not a design choice, it’s an accident that people are accepting as the right way to play

23 minutes ago, Popian said:

This could work if Ice Flingomatics worked too (and maybe buffed to last at least 15 days) and everything was more renewable as everything else doesn't smolder, but then it'd be like what's the point (getting rid of Rot?) when you return to an area a season or two later to notice things have slightly moved. Temporarily losing access to plants is covered by withering already.

The point is removing an immersion breaking exploit

[Green Crystal]

I think wildfires could be viewed as some sort of legit challenge only when ROG was just out and everyone faced summer for the first time. Because nobody at that time attempted to build the megabases that are more common now, so it was no big deal if some random forest catched on fire somewhere in the world. 

After importing ROG features to DST, this subject got some attention and summer caves become cooler and forest world recieved another desert but with sandstorm to hide from wildfires. Now, opinion alert, this solution was kinda two-sided: encouraging players to explore caves is good, but limiting their presence upstairs to only new desert is lame to say the least. So its either you do this two things or deal with the random and unfogiving wildfire mechanic, which doesn't even give you a proper indication when smoldering is occuring. I see it as a lose-lose. 

I think this mechanic direly needs a full rework, including summer sandstorm. Well, realisticly, if the weather across Constant is so damn hot everything begin to smolder, why does it only happen around the player? Yes, I know that's how the game work, but it doesn't make much sence. Run away from your base for a season and everything should be as if this hazard never existed. Duh. That's why I just turn it off. 

I remember suggestions about some sort of heat domes, that cover part of your map, much like lunar storms, and only that area is affected by smoldering. Or maybe add fire tornadoes, that can be seen on map preliminarily, and you have to quench them in some way to stop destruction. At this point, I see any other idea as much better then wildfires. 

 

 

 

And no, you can't call running away from your base an exploit, it's the way the game works.

 

[CuteC]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

It just doesn’t make sense to leave a base completely unprotected, then come back s if nothing happened. It’s an exploit and a potent one too

If wildfires become too bad, then Klei can nerf them in some other way. Encouraging the abuse of mechanics is not the way though

It’s not a design choice, it’s an accident that people are accepting as the right way to play

The point is removing an immersion breaking exploit

Wildfires don't happen far away from the player because the world would simply disappear in one summer, fire is extremely destructive, is that extra bit of immersion REALLY worth the enjoyment of players?

[Baark0]

How to go from 99% of players disabling wildfires to 100% 

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

How to go from 99% of players disabling wildfires to 100% 

I think what people forget is that wildfires won’t fully let a world go extinct, I mean even if everything burns away it can be chopped, hammered down- and you will usually get back pinecones or building materials to “eventually” replace what gets destroyed.

Even some once non-renewable items like reeds, and Catcoon dens have become renewable…. 
 

That said, If Lunar Rifts can choose a location to randomly spawn in your world… why can’t a Wildfire?

Why can you “Beat” a so called “Survival” Game by simply leaving your base location so it off loads and nothing bad ever happens to it?

[EatenCheetos]

What if natural resources slowly grew back in every autumn? So you would see trees reappear as well as bushes, twigs, grass, reeds, flowers, etc. This is very common in the real world in climates that are prone to wildfires.

44 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

That said, If Lunar Rifts can choose a location to randomly spawn in your world… why can’t a Wildfire?

Why can you “Beat” a so called “Survival” Game by simply leaving your base location so it off loads and nothing bad ever happens to it?

I love the way both of these sentences are phrased. I agree 100%

[CuteC]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I think what people forget is that wildfires won’t fully let a world go extinct, I mean even if everything burns away it can be chopped, hammered down- and you will usually get back pinecones or building materials to “eventually” replace what gets destroyed.

Even some once non-renewable items like reeds, and Catcoon dens have become renewable…. 
 

That said, If Lunar Rifts can choose a location to randomly spawn in your world… why can’t a Wildfire?

Why can you “Beat” a so called “Survival” Game by simply leaving your base location so it off loads and nothing bad ever happens to it?

Maybe because rifts avoid destroying things Mike, they usually don't spawn near structures and they uproot resources instead of sending them to the shadow realm.

Rifts are also quite slow and don't spread permanent damage like some sort of disease.

54 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

What if natural resources slowly grew back in every autumn? So you would see trees reappear as well as bushes, twigs, grass, reeds, flowers, etc. This is very common in the real world in climates that are prone to wildfires.

I love the way both of these sentences are phrased. I agree 100%

May I introduce you to withering?

[Auth]

7 hours ago, EatenCheetos said:

The amount of people that leave their base during summer because wildfires can’t load offscreen is huge, I consider this one of the games biggest exploits.

Completely abandoning your base, and all of its resources and buildings, isn't much of an exploit. Unless your base was pretty pathetic, or you're basing in multiple locations across the world, there's no real benefit to summer nomadding VS if you were to do it in any other season. Are early game summers just supposed to be "Sit at camp and make sure nothing burns"? This would restrict the player's freedom very dramatically during 1/4th of their in-game time. Regardless of the number of options, are any of them actually fun or engaging enough to cover that loss of freedom?

When I first was playing with RoG seasons in Together, I spent my first summers doing that. Staying at base for 15 days and shoving stockpiled fuel in my flingos while sitting at the endothermic firepit. It was boring as hell, and made me consider turning wildfires off! Because I didn't know you could leave. I thought I actually had to sit there, every single summer, to prevent the chests I spent days mashing trees for, from combusting. With the newfound knowledge I have, now I know I can leave and that things'll be fine, but I often carry a luxury fan or an ice staff anyways, so when I see fires, I actually have an opportunity to engage with them and extinguish them. It's nice to know that I have a choice and have the ability to prepare for such situations. If fires appear anywhere at any time, I'm just supposed to suck it up and accept that parts of my world I may not have even explored yet are just useless for a few years until the game regrows enough resources?

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I think what people forget is that wildfires won’t fully let a world go extinct, I mean even if everything burns away it can be chopped, hammered down- and you will usually get back pinecones or building materials to “eventually” replace what gets destroyed.

If I wanted to play in a world with everything set to "Less" I can do that from world settings, don't need to punish players for not uprooting every resource they'd like to keep and moving it to shorelines covered by trees, all before Day 55.

 

Even if it's not a megabase, what if I want to have a structure further away? What if I want to have a farm of some kind by a natural resource? What if there's a small camp I've built that I don't intend on using very often? I need to make flingos and constantly fuel them all over my world, or crystaleyezers for everything, just so my immersion isn't ruined by a top down third person cartoon survival game where I'm hitting the toes of giants with meat and that kills them? Or should I just carry bundles of all the resources I need to build a base at the drop of a hat?

Besides all that, this would require not only a full rework of smoldering, but also for fire itself. And how everything else in the world is loaded too, I think. That's a lot of work.

I'm pretty sure if this behavior wasn't intended it would've been fixed or at least noticed by the devs in the 9 years since RoG dropped. That or they never survive until Summer. Who knows.

[EatenCheetos]

16 minutes ago, Auth said:

When I first was playing with RoG seasons in Together, I spent my first summers doing that. Staying at base for 15 days and shoving stockpiled fuel in my flingos while sitting at the endothermic firepit. It was boring as hell, and made me consider turning wildfires off! Because I didn't know you could leave. I thought I actually had to sit there, every single summer, to prevent the chests I spent days mashing trees for, from combusting. With the newfound knowledge I have, now I know I can leave and that things'll be fine, but I often carry a luxury fan or an ice staff anyways, so when I see fires, I actually have an opportunity to engage with them and extinguish them. It's nice to know that I have a choice and have the ability to prepare for such situations. If fires appear anywhere at any time, I'm just supposed to suck it up and accept that parts of my world I may not have even explored yet are just useless for a few years until the game regrows enough resources?

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hm, good point. Uncompromising mode gets rid of smoldering completely unless it’s a heat wave (new mechanic). That could be a good rework. That way, most of the time you could be able to explore more often.

It is a problem though that most people turn off wildfires completely. It might be in the games best interest to do a complete overhaul of summer.
 

 

[MondayNight]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:30 PM, EatenCheetos said:

It just doesn’t make sense to leave a base completely unprotected, then come back s if nothing happened. It’s an exploit and a potent one too

Here's what rhetorically would happen if your desire got implemented: base has burned down. That's it. Happy? Equivalent to "1 click action = insta-death" for camp. Since fingos aren't actually loaded if player's not present. And if made loadable, then factor time to their depletion and come back to refuel = same as "babysitting" base. Not to mention how "popular" actually is the current wildfires mechanic - same as the old disease one.

[EatenCheetos]

1 minute ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Here's what rhetorically would happen if your desire got implemented: base has burned down. That's it. Happy? Equivalent to "1 click action = insta-death" for camp. Since fingos aren't actually are loaded if player not present. And if made loadable, then factor time to their depletion and come back to refuel = same as "babysitting" base. Not to mention how "popular" actually is the current wildfires mechanic - same as the old disease one.

That’s unnecessarily aggressive, and also that’s how the game is designed. Summer is meant to be about babysitting flingos if you base in a vulnerable spot.
 

I do agree that the mechanic is annoying and could benefit from a rework, but having the solution be to abuse the game’s loading capabilities is a band aid fix.

[Mysterious box]

Personally I'd move in the opposite direction and suggest they make it so fires wildfires can't start outside the player's direct field of view sure the exploit is cheesy but this is one of those things that makes the player feel more welcomed to engage with wildfires still I understand where your coming from.

[MondayNight]

59 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

That’s unnecessarily aggressive, and also that’s how the game is designed. Summer is meant to be about babysitting flingos if you base in a vulnerable spot.

Yes, what you propose is indeed an unnecessarily aggressive mechanic with no counter in sight. If RNG-based, you basically score a hit-or-miss on "will my base still be there when coming back or is crispy strips?!" in various percentages - Russian roulette with camp. If certainly goes in flames when people not present in Summer... pretty self-explanatory. You circle back to "babysit camp" only. Such a change in turn would: 1) be very detrimental to "mega-base" play-style to the point of invalidating it; 2) most players will camp in Oasis-only/Cave-only/spot at Sea's margin filled with giant trees. Solely a small number of players do sit in a (non-Oasis/non-Caves) camp during summertime, tending it via flingos - personal experience based on >7k irl h of pub plays and from various DST YouTube videos on the matter at hand.

[EatenCheetos]

Well if you leave your base exposed to the elements of course it should have a chance of burning down, maybe even 100%.

Also trust me, the mega base community will survive.

[GelatinousCube]

This has to be the single worst thread I've ever read on these forums. What an absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical idea and suggestion. Like what..?
 

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

That said, If Lunar Rifts can choose a location to randomly spawn in your world… why can’t a Wildfire?

Why can you “Beat” a so called “Survival” Game by simply leaving your base location so it off loads and nothing bad ever happens to it?

Hahahaha what? Mike man if OP is your alt account you REALLY need to take a break from this game/these forums..

[Mike23Ua]

23 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

This has to be the single worst thread I've ever read on these forums. What an absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical idea and suggestion. Like what..?
 

Hahahaha what? Mike man if OP is your alt account you REALLY need to take a break from this game/these forums..

Why? Because it’s a concept/idea/or threat that doesn’t mesh with your playstyle?

We’ve been over this before.. it’s like buying a WWE 2K game and you enjoy the Royal Rumble but hate the Ladder Match, Different Modes.. for Different people…

[Cassielu]

I've always hated the fact that wildfires only happen around player, it makes me feel like I'm a cursed child bringing disaster to the things around me, and the best way to prevent it is to stay away from the things I love.

But I would prefer it to be the other way around: remove it and replace with something more reasonable and fun.

Making it happen throughout the map will only cause the entire surface world outside the player base or lightning bluff to burn out over time, forcing the player to protect as much area as possible.

[GelatinousCube]

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why? Because it’s a concept/idea/or threat that doesn’t mesh with your playstyle?

We’ve been over this before.. it’s like buying a WWE 2K game and you enjoy the Royal Rumble but hate the Ladder Match, Different Modes.. for Different people…

Because it literally doesn't work, first off keeping the entire world loaded isn't realistic and anything that relies on that is completely and utterly unrealistic and a waste of everyone's time to even discuss. Secondly its overly destructive and over the top to a degree that is honestly just laughably stupid, I don't think any other "survivalist" players are going to back you and your alt account up on this one somehow.. like there's wanting more destruction and then there's this - wanting the entire surface shard/world to go up in flames completely and there being little to no counter play to fires whatsoever. To have literally every single possible structure (player made or natural), every mob and every resource just completely at the whim of wildfires raging uncontrollably across the constant. This suggestion is basically asking for the game to be changed to "Fire Everywhere Simulator". 

We haven't "been over this before", you've compared other games of completely different genres without a single similarity to DST other than both being video games plenty of times before thinking it somehow proves your point when it doesn't if that's what you mean by "we've been over this before". 

[_zwb]

At this point we should just abandon this mechanic and come up with something more fun and engaging

[mykenception]

3 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Hahahaha what? Mike man if OP is your alt account you REALLY need to take a break from this game/these forums

That actually makes so much sense it's unnerving 

3 hours ago, GelatinousCube said: