what kind of route will rift content take?

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, MasterDos said:

DST is not a game about building a base the size of a continent. Therefore, if you have built such a colossal base, you are obliged to bear losses

 

You say this, but the game does not support his idea.  We have many terraforming options, including docks.  We could literally pave the entire world over if we wanted now.  More and more resources are added as renewable.  Every new tool added to the game gives us new options in innovation.  This game is a survival game, but it is not a survival game where the game continually ramps up until you lose.  There is, and always has been a level of knowledge and skill you can possess to essentially defeat the game.  Even before DST there were large bases, many strategies for dominating the world, reducing tediousness etc.

[Mike23Ua]

19 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

You say this, but the game does not support his idea.  We have many terraforming options, including docks.  We could literally pave the entire world over if we wanted now.  More and more resources are added as renewable.  Every new tool added to the game gives us new options in innovation.  This game is a survival game, but it is not a survival game where the game continually ramps up until you lose.  There is, and always has been a level of knowledge and skill you can possess to essentially defeat the game.  Even before DST there were large bases, many strategies for dominating the world, reducing tediousness etc.

Content updates were intended to be the counter to this though?? I mean when you discuss DS (not DST.. DS) the game was super super easy only having Autumn at first, and then blame Klei adds winter and all the changes that come with adding a winter.

I watched a huge multi hours long compilation of all the game updates DS under went from early beta to what it is now, and content updates made the game harder with new seasons, or new mobs, or new hazards, or whatever. (I was actually amazed at what all content was NOT in the game and came out in updates later tbh)

And that’s where we’re at now with DST, it started out as DS with multiplayer but is now in its updates phase.

Now rather those updates effect your base or not is entirely up to Klei.

[GenomeSquirrel]

I'm curious how they view the last few updates, they did have some scorched earth ambitions, but raining boulders turned into flingo 2.0, stationary thing with fuel

[Retepeter]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Content updates were intended to be the counter to this though?? I mean when you discuss DS (not DST.. DS) the game was super super easy only having Autumn at first, and then blame Klei adds winter and all the changes that come with adding a winter.

I watched a huge multi hours long compilation of all the game updates DS under went from early beta to what it is now, and content updates made the game harder with new seasons, or new mobs, or new hazards, or whatever. (I was actually amazed at what all content was NOT in the game and came out in updates later tbh)

And that’s where we’re at now with DST, it started out as DS with multiplayer but is now in its updates phase.

Now rather those updates effect your base or not is entirely up to Klei.

Games infact evolve. Minecraft was also intended to be a game where you just kill mobs but it became a sandbox game with a focus on building.

Don't starve may have been a game where you just kill a new enemy every month but it's very clear more people enjoy building bases than just having 4 crockpots an ice box and an alchemy engine while killing some boring enemy. RoT and FB seem to weave exploration/fighting (such as cookie cutter brines) with new base building items (saltbox)

[GelatinousCube]

1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

I'm curious how they view the last few updates, they did have some scorched earth ambitions, but raining boulders turned into flingo 2.0, stationary thing with fuel

Given how quickly they stopped the boulders falling when the player was too close to structures and now the existence of support pillars I honestly think it was an oversight or mistake of some sort. 

Surely they didn't intend for super regular boulders just destroying everything everywhere in the caves. That seems way too over the top or scorched earth as you say. I could be wrong but that's what I reckon.

[Mike23Ua]

39 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

Games infact evolve. Minecraft was also intended to be a game where you just kill mobs but it became a sandbox game with a focus on building.

Don't starve may have been a game where you just kill a new enemy every month but it's very clear more people enjoy building bases than just having 4 crockpots an ice box and an alchemy engine while killing some boring enemy. RoT and FB seem to weave exploration/fighting (such as cookie cutter brines) with new base building items (saltbox)

Games may evolve, but unless that game is Resident Evil or Mario.. they don’t generally change gaming genres.

If I buy Mario Kart I expect Mario Kart & not Mario Pro Golf Tour.

Many of the things I originally enjoyed about the Dont Starve franchise that existed with Solo DS, it’s Adventures mode & its two DLCs, are almost if not even completely absent from DST.

And why?? I honestly don’t know.. but I can say that I deeply wish Klei would reincorporate many of the puzzles & challenges that were present within DS+it’s DLCs that aren’t so heavily present in DST.

Things such as just an example- Pangolden, or Piko Squirrels, Mobs that actually interacted WITH you and their environment, I mean yeah ok maybe we have Moleworms and Gobblers that do that… but Pangolden walk around sucking up entire ponds so they spawn someplace else.. Piko drop out the trees and hijack the seeds running off with them stashed in their mouths. Stepping foot into a Hamlet temple and not paying attention could fling a deadly trap of arrows your direction.

I mean I could go on and on and on.. but I think a lot of people want dst to AT LEAST catch up with the challenges and content they enjoyed from DS.

[GelatinousCube]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Things such as just an example- Pangolden, or Piko Squirrels, Mobs that actually interacted WITH you and their environment, I mean yeah ok maybe we have Moleworms and Gobblers that do that… but Pangolden walk around sucking up entire ponds so they spawn someplace else.. Piko drop out the trees and hijack the seeds running off with them stashed in their mouths. Stepping foot into a Hamlet temple and not paying attention could fling a deadly trap of arrows your direction.

Whilst I disagree overall with you on this thread god I wish we had some of the Hamlet mobs in dst.. Pikos in the birchnut forest would bring more life to it. Catcoons could try and catch and kill them like they do with moles, butterflies etc while the pikos try to grab stuff on the floor and escape to their trees first. Limit them to Birchnuts so you could always clear trees in certain areas or limit them to stuff on the ground so they don't just steal everything from chests (or include the corkbarrells for building chests in this biome - different recipe and name, something made from driftwood May be so it isn't super easy).

Pangoldens very slowly creating and moving new ponds in a certain biome like the Rockylands or Mosaic would be super cool and provide world's with barely any ponds more sources of frogs, freshwater fish etc. You could somehow herd one closer to your base to try make a pond in a better spot for watering cans etc. 

the temple dungeons are awesome and I'd love something similar in DST that changes layout and loot every time. Might be tricky to implement or include though.

A lot of elements and mobs of hamlet are really interesting and unique. 

[cropo]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

You say this, but the game does not support his idea.  We have many terraforming options, including docks.  We could literally pave the entire world over if we wanted now.  More and more resources are added as renewable.  Every new tool added to the game gives us new options in innovation.  This game is a survival game, but it is not a survival game where the game continually ramps up until you lose.  There is, and always has been a level of knowledge and skill you can possess to essentially defeat the game.  Even before DST there were large bases, many strategies for dominating the world, reducing tediousness etc.

Too add on to this, every survival game in the history of survival games to ever be introduced to the survival genre in any shape, form, or way, has a stage of the game where the player is no longer just surviving, but THRIVING. 

EVERY survival game that I can think of, besides maybe Seven Days to Die(and even then, it still technically follows this) always has a side-goal of learning the game to the point that you can defeat the looming threat of survival and make nice bases, and play the game in a more luxurious style. I would argue Minecraft itself has this as well, albeit with a different kind of difficulty since the game is designed around children. The player is still challenged with survival mechanics and harsh death punishments if you don't know how to navigate the world, but then encourages you to take what you learned and build and automate all of the challenges of the game away once you get a hold on its systems.

 

I am honestly drawing a blank on survival games that DON'T allow for this kind of freedom once you learn the game better. Seven days to die is the only game I can think of that deliberately tries to grief your base, and that's the entire title and purpose of the game.

[Capybara007]

Smh these megabaser are SO DUMB, always ruining my uncompromising survival game, klei should make it to after day 2 a bearger appears on top of the player every second that way you can build structures for a limited ammount of time LIKE KLEI INTENDED

[Yuuko]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Content updates were intended to be the counter to this though?? I mean when you discuss DS (not DST.. DS) the game was super super easy only having Autumn at first, and then blame Klei adds winter and all the changes that come with adding a winter.

I watched a huge multi hours long compilation of all the game updates DS under went from early beta to what it is now, and content updates made the game harder with new seasons, or new mobs, or new hazards, or whatever. (I was actually amazed at what all content was NOT in the game and came out in updates later tbh)

And that’s where we’re at now with DST, it started out as DS with multiplayer but is now in its updates phase.

Now rather those updates effect your base or not is entirely up to Klei.

Nothing about what I said prevents hard things from being added to the game, but the arc of the content is: Thing you don't understand does something that makes it a problem => learn about it => gain experience with it => no longer a problem, probably a boon.

This is with everything.  Summer, caves, new bosses, etc.  None of these were on the arc of "eventually the world overcomes you."

It has a lot more in common with Minecraft then Terraria.

[MondayNight]

Personally I would want, post-Rifts, World to enter Progression. Concept was explained numerous times in past in various topics. Basically World dangers get amped up to certain levels one could consider *hard* compared to current *regular* DST from an advanced/experienced player's perspective - aka game's Survival facet receives late-game content: more weather phenomenons (flooding, hail, snow storms, mud areas, etc - including Sea special weather and particular waves, maelstroms, a.s.o.), more seasons (variations of present seasons?) and seasonal threats (plants, mobs and boss creatures alike), possibly new biomes (flora & fauna variants) via Moon/Horror mutagenesis (Moon/Horror variants for current mobs & plants, maybe even bosses), perhaps getting more advanced "societal organization" for Pig Men (similar to Hamlet), Merm folks, Bunnymen (Rock Lobsters?!) too. A lot can be done via mentioned Progression. With a caveat: we also get means/mechanics/gear to counter said new threads, both in spread and "virulence" - as we always had. DST isn't some giant "Endless Battle Arena" akin, for example, to "Night 2 Die" mode of the Starcraft2's "Left 2 Die" scenario - where hordes upon hordes of hostiles come every night to kill you to the point of overwhelming or a similar game-play from SC2 Arcade, namely the The SCV Team; game-modes one can't actually win, but strive to get longer survivability times. DS/T was always about the hard (bulk player-base assessment) road from scarcity (Survival) to proverbial cornucopia/"horn of plenty" (Sandbox). I see no reason for this to change (as in "world overcomes and kills you no matter what you do") outside presumably Wilderness. But yes, DST's late-game Survival facet is in dire need of content. Accent on *late-game*/post-AFw&CC - early-to-mid one is ok, hard and complex enough - once more: accounting all player-base, not solely advanced experienced players.

[fabin]

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

...aka game's Survival facet receives late-game content: more weather phenomenons (flooding, hail, snow storms, mud areas, etc - including Sea special weather and particular waves, maelstroms, a.s.o.), more seasons (variations of present seasons?)

this

i don't want a colder winter, hotter summer or super spring, i want cool weather effects to add some variation throughout the seasonal year, and especially more ways the weather affects the ocean

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

I actually leave certain areas and builds "wild and dangerous" on purpose. I don't tackle every task or boss in the most meta or reliable/easy way on purpose (only those that I find too difficult otherwise on console). 

I play pubs sometimes nowadays and try to teach/help newer players mechanics and tricks they might not know. 

Aren't you a very vocal lover and advocate of as many world gen and world settings options as possible? Why can't we have both? Options to make new content destructive but in ways you can avoid if clever about it OR insanely destructive versions you can't do anything about for you masochistic players.

The problem is most people don't want the content to just be destructive specifically we want content that actually matters in a impactful way which is directly at odds with what the other side of the community wants. Most people don't go into the game to have the majority of it's content to be completely optional and unrelated to the gameplay loop but that's what nearly all the new content we get is.

[bloopah]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem is most people don't want the content to just be destructive specifically we want content that actually matters in a impactful way which is directly at odds with what the other side of the community wants. Most people don't go into the game to have the majority of it's content to be completely optional and unrelated to the gameplay loop but that's what nearly all the new content we get is.

Everyone wants something impactful, what people don't agree with is which direction the impact should go.

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, Retepeter said:

Games infact evolve. Minecraft was also intended to be a game where you just kill mobs but it became a sandbox game with a focus on building.

Don't starve may have been a game where you just kill a new enemy every month but it's very clear more people enjoy building bases than just having 4 crockpots an ice box and an alchemy engine while killing some boring enemy. RoT and FB seem to weave exploration/fighting (such as cookie cutter brines) with new base building items (saltbox)

I mean you say that but the community keeps expecting something new and impactful and if base building is all they want then what exactly are they expecting from these content updates really? We've been given new base building tools and bosses but people aren't satisfied and have pie in the sky dreams of what could be added so I have to wonder what Klei can even do to satisfy people.

1 minute ago, bloopah said:

Everyone wants something impactful, what people don't agree with is which direction the impact should go.

I disagree on that to a extent while there are people on both sides who want impactful content there are some who really don't want the gameplay loop to be shaken up.

[bloopah]

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

there are some who really don't want the gameplay loop to be shaken up.

I haven't seen anyone like that at all, not even on these forums.

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

and if base building is all they want

They don't just want that.They want improvements to the worlds, things being changed by the Rifts, as seen in this thread and many more like it.

[GenomeSquirrel]

What is meant by loop anyhow?

[fabin]

1 hour ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

What is meant by loop anyhow?

basically just the gameplay loop. i dunno really how to explain it 'cuz words aren't my forte, but it's basically the loop of what you do in the game. it's something along the lines of [gather resources > explore > build stuff > fight stuff > gather resources > explore > build stuff > fight stronger stuff > gather resources...]

i compared it to terraria because it has a very prevalent gameplay loop, it stays basically the same but the loop gets spicier when you reach hard mode

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, bloopah said:

I haven't seen anyone like that at all, not even on these forums.

Can't say anything about what you've experienced on these forums but I was specifically told this here in the past.

Not everyone feels the same about these things.

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Games may evolve, but unless that game is Resident Evil or Mario.. they don’t generally change gaming genres.

If I buy Mario Kart I expect Mario Kart & not Mario Pro Golf Tour.

Many of the things I originally enjoyed about the Dont Starve franchise that existed with Solo DS, it’s Adventures mode & its two DLCs, are almost if not even completely absent from DST.

And why?? I honestly don’t know.. but I can say that I deeply wish Klei would reincorporate many of the puzzles & challenges that were present within DS+it’s DLCs that aren’t so heavily present in DST.

Things such as just an example- Pangolden, or Piko Squirrels, Mobs that actually interacted WITH you and their environment, I mean yeah ok maybe we have Moleworms and Gobblers that do that… but Pangolden walk around sucking up entire ponds so they spawn someplace else.. Piko drop out the trees and hijack the seeds running off with them stashed in their mouths. Stepping foot into a Hamlet temple and not paying attention could fling a deadly trap of arrows your direction.

I mean I could go on and on and on.. but I think a lot of people want dst to AT LEAST catch up with the challenges and content they enjoyed from DS.

The Iron biome is S teir peak biome.

[Jakepeng99]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:43 PM, Mike23Ua said:

They can’t really “do that” though.. because as long as there are still mega bases, new content will need to try quote “Very Hard Not to spawn in your base”

We are at a stalemate when it comes to content updates, how can Klei add ANYTHING Megabasers won’t complain about?

Even simple things like a lunar rift mutating a Catcoon to become very hostile, R.I.P. to the player who based near the cute Catcoon dens & had those as part of their BIOME SPRAWLING BASE DECOR.

Do you just.. Not see my problem with mega basing yet?

Ponds can’t boil over in summer and have Adorable Larvae spawn out of them without someone somewhere complaining it destroyed their Megabase.

So what can Klei possibly add that doesn’t also effect someone’s base that spans the entire constant?

They should aim for reversable corruption maybe.

[sudoku]

The danger when creating and thinking about survival content is to conflate it with increased difficulty, because having the focus be on difficulty alone makes the content redundant in a game where up until recently, there hasnt really been any way to measure player level. An experienced player, for example, can probably manage and overcome the freezing mechanic whether on day 1 or day 25. The challenge and fun comes from how you go about solving this threat. On day 1 you may have to forgo extra exploration in order to accumulate a good amount of materials for torches and campfires because the threat of freezing is increased without winter gear. Whereas on day 25, you probably have enough loot by now that you can craft a hat and thermal stone.

Newly added survival content shouldn't really be any harder than when you had to figure out how to deal with darkness or freezing or managing your sanity. Instead it should primarily be about giving the player a new puzzle to solve when the threat arises. This helps spice up the normal gameplay loop in an organic way. 

I hope that the rift content's focus wont purely be about adding increased difficulty.  The planar mechanics and skill trees have me a little weary already as they act as a pseudo measure of player level and experience in a game where up until recently you could take on any enemy with a spear.  The problem with content being designed around this is that it makes it rather flat in scope. Take mechanics like freezing and overheating. These are survival threats that help push you in a certain position of gameplay. The goal isnt to "beat" freezing. Its to adapt to the challenge using whatever method is available at the time depending on your current state of resources. Rift content seems to be less about giving us additional puzzles to solve and overcome, and more about providing a more structured, rigid challenge that is going to ramp up over time. There are some bright spots though, although the initial implementation may have been rough, brightshades and acid rain are survival content that i think mostly works, but as has always been the case they will have to continue to think of fun, interesting challenges that doesn't impede too much the community's favorite base building pastime.   

  

 

[Theukon-dos]

Chief, Imma be real with you. I completely lost faith in the rift updates after skill trees got added. I'll admit, this coming beta excites me pretty well simply because of how long it's been cooking. But at the end of the day, Rifts are a fundamentally bad idea that add content for a fundamentally flawed reason that introduce fundamentally terrible mechanics.

 

At this point, I'm just waiting for the last beta to drop so I can write a retrospective on the whole thing and reallly look at the From Beyond arc under a microscope to see what went wrong.

[bloopah]

11 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Chief, Imma be real with you. I completely lost faith in the rift updates after skill trees got added. I'll admit, this coming beta excites me pretty well simply because of how long it's been cooking. But at the end of the day, Rifts are a fundamentally bad idea that add content for a fundamentally flawed reason that introduce fundamentally terrible mechanics.

My brother in Christ, primordial eldritch beings invading the lands of the Constant isn't a bad idea, it just didn't have enough time to cook. And I believe the hate towards the Planar mechanics is really overblown, from what I'm seeing the hate against it nowadays only comes from people (justifiably) hating the Brightshades.

[Theukon-dos]

16 minutes ago, bloopah said:

My brother in Christ, primordial eldritch beings invading the lands of the Constant isn't a bad idea, it just didn't have enough time to cook. And I believe the hate towards the Planar mechanics is really overblown, from what I'm seeing the hate against it nowadays only comes from people (justifiably) hating the Brightshades.

See, that part is cool on paper. But in practice, I think the only way letting these updates cook more could have fixed it was by Klei getting stuck in a traffic jam, causing the whole thing to burn and get thrown out.

 

Ultimately, Rifts where created to address power creep that doesn't exist, fail to address what power creep does exist, and is trying to add a new endgame to a game which already had an endgame that's been seeing development for the better part of 10 years now.