Does anyone remember the very popular suggestion made about implementing elevation in game?

[chirsg]

11 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

Definitely real chess players: we've been playing this game for quite awhile  now I'm really craving a 3rd axis

Chess doesn't get multiple patches per year. If I state facts too often again, I'll get the thread shut down.

[jrthekidRS]

52 minutes ago, chirsg said:

You haven't been playing long enough if you haven't sought out a 3rd axis, which one actually does exist.

You haven't read my post closely enough if you haven't sought out the word 'true' before "third axis", which one actually does exist.

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

Chess doesn't get multiple patches per year. If I state facts too often again, I'll get the thread shut down.

It has nothing to do with facts, you just get to enthusiastic about arguing your points.

but yeah, weird elitism saying “if you dont want the game updated the way i want it updated you havent played long enough”

like chill guy, i just dont think it’ll add much so i dont want them spending one or two years on it, if you want it, thats fine, but stop acting like your opinion is factually correct.

[Jakepeng99]

21 hours ago, chirsg said:

The kicker is the dude who made the suggestion allegedly got a message from either the CIA, FBI, The CCP or Klei. He wasn't clear, but the message was from an entity of authority regarding the proposition. That's what makes the 3 years hurt all the more. 

 

Wait the person got reported to the FBI ect because they posted the y axis?

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wait the person got reported to the FBI ect because they posted the y axis?

Calculus III in shambles rn

[Mike23Ua]

13 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

I mean, yeah thats what we’re trying to explain. Its the difference between  a basically two dimensional game (gameplay wise it is 2d, it just has 3d graphics) and a three dimensional game. You can’t just add a third dimension, everything needs to change around this.

we are in fact talking about effort almost equal to making a whole new game. In fact it’s entirely possible that it could require more effort due to the sheer amount of content that needs to be updated.

They may not make another dont starve. And if they did “going 3d” is honestly a weird direction to take an entire games worth lf development, especially since such a drastic change could drive away your fanbase if done poorly.

Actually.. have you played a game called Cassette Beasts on Xbox Gamepass? 
A game doesn’t have to be 3D to have elevated foundations of land.

AND if you play that game you’ll quickly learn that elevations in land can add literal “depth” to gameplay. Some areas are up higher and can’t be reached without finding the steps or another way to travel up to that foundation.

It also allows the player to do things such as jump between platform gaps, which is funny as hell to me… because that’s technically what ya’ll have ALREADY been doing anytime you throw down a boat kit into a small River steam to “hop” across..

The characters even have hopping animations.

Please I beg you, Klei.., Or anyone who disagrees that 3D elevation isn’t possible in a 2D game to just go play Cassette Beasts for 10-15 minutes. <3

[gamehun20]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Please I beg you, Klei.., Or anyone who disagrees that 3D elevation isn’t possible in a 2D game to just go play Cassette Beasts for 10-15 minutes. <3

That game still has a fixed camera angle, npcs don't agro on you and follow you forever and try to pathfight to get to you, fights are contained in a pokemon like turned based fight not in the main world, different engine, mike no matter how many times you post a comparison we will always say it's really not worth the effort to add something like this to dst 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, gamehun20 said:

That game still has a fixed camera angle, npcs don't agro on you and follow you forever and try to pathfight to get to you, fights are contained in a pokemon like turned based fight not in the main world, different engine, mike no matter how many times you post a comparison we will always say it's really not worth the effort to add something like this to dst 

You see, that’s where you and I disagree, I enjoy the characters, the mobs, and the scenery of DST.. what I don’t enjoy at all is the intended gameplay loop- Intended meaning that 16 hour quest tied to 3 different late game bosses.

I very specifically mentioned Cassette Beasts because of its puzzles that Elevated platforms of land bring about within that game.. such as needing to climb a ledge and flip a switch to open a gate to an otherwise inaccessible area.

Im very much aware that the two games don’t use the same game engine, or gameplay for that matter…

But when a topic about Elevated land is made, instead of Dismissing it- We should actually be discussing the pros & cons of it.

If you dislike Elevations that’s fine you can just say so and move onto another topic… 

Meanwhile for those of us who would actually like to seriously consider having it in the game, we need to look at other games that ALREADY DO IT & what kind of unique gameplay scenarios that can come from it.

Such as the above switch on a platform you need to figure out a way to get to scenario.

But it isn’t a real life 18 hour quest, and something “Exploration” Based that I would actually ENJOY. It brings about new ways of navigating the world, new puzzle solving opportunities and so much more.

Maybe the content Klei has been pumping out lately just isn’t targeted towards me, maybe they’re only focus right now is super super late game raid bosses or whatever else they’re doing right now…

But I’d be straight up LYING to you if I said I don’t want Klei to take any inspiration at all from the puzzle solving elements of Cassette Beasts.

And your Right- CB does have a “Fixed” camera angle, that only Turns when it needs to… which is actually an Advantage DST would have in being able to rotate the map angle anytime you desire.

we already can see certain objects that are otherwise obscured away behind trees or whatever by making the tree see through, or the object on the otherside seen through the tree, so why can’t we see our characters on the otherside of a see through elevation in land if we needed to?

you can try it yourself: drop some gold behind a rock or a tree and you’ll still see that gold.. 

Same as if you were on the other side of a cliff in the game: I’d imagine you’d see through it onto the other side.

Oh and don’t forget UNLIKE Cassette Beasts where your camera angle is fixed, with DST you’d be able to rotate it to get a better view point.

 

[_zwb]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Please I beg you, Klei.., Or anyone who disagrees that 3D elevation isn’t possible in a 2D game to just go play Cassette Beasts for 10-15 minutes. <3

Don't Starve is a 3D game, coordinates are represented as (x, y, z) in the game, 3 axis

[GreenBowers]

We must reach the 4th dimension, to a future where the beta is out

[Valase]

I think that most of you never looked at the different shores, they have different edges therefore the game has elevation, but jokes aside, the game already has three dimentions, it may not have slopes, cuz that is what you guys are asking, like, one of the first replies on the og post is from someone showing that you can go "up" using walls in the base game. But having to backtrack all of the content in order to make it work with a slope is not a bright idea.

[Fuffles]

Technically, it is very much possible to do with some recent-ish modding breakthroughs, as we can add real 3D planes with a little black magic and even give them a custom shader. I'm planning to create a mod that does fully implement this in the form of an API so any mod can play around with this without being incompatible with things and a proper mod that actually implements this and plays around with the new possibilities, but I cant say how soon it will release.
There is a lot of limitations that arent something as simple as making the game actually consider the Y-axis etc.
It's more technical than that.

Spoiler

• First of all, this method currently has a lot of quirks regarding draw order, this has to be addressed.
• Second of all, for the simplicity of things we'll call one part of these a 3D plane, the game has a hard limit of 512 of these and will instantly crash without warning if its exceeded. This is tricky since every element has to be its own 3D plane and the limit might be an issue due to how overhangs work (especially with multiple turf layers you could make every tile need 9 planes, not to even mention walls). The additional pain of this method is also the fact that other things in this game use this, which could also help in exceeding the limit.
• Third of all, shader restrictions. With this current method I can't pass anything to the shader and can only use 1 texture. This leads to texture monsters such as these for every existing turf.
• Spoiler

  • 
• There will also need to be multiple copies of the same shader with slightly altered values because of rain puddles and snow. as I can't just pass a number for their transparency
• Fourth of all, the higher you go, the more you can technically see of the world behind you. The game unloads objects out of view to spare your computer from going on life support, so at heights things will vanish as you go around. I've been thinking about a fog shader to help with this so you wont see things that far back, but this is yet another shader I have to write, and the turf shader alone took me a solid week to get running

TL;DR Yes, mod sometime in the future

 

[Copyafriend]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You see, that’s where you and I disagree, I enjoy the characters, the mobs, and the scenery of DST.. what I don’t enjoy at all is the intended gameplay loop- Intended meaning that 16 hour quest tied to 3 different late game bosses.

my guy, I love the enthusiasm, I really really do

But you are not listening, we ARE discussing the pros and the cons, and quite frankly you're completely ignoring the cons and listing the pros.

the game already has a three dimensional environment, what it doesn't have is any support for anything in the game to understand the third dimensional nature of everything. deerclops wont understand that you're on a ledge, he'll simply move towards you in an x and z sense as best as he can, he wont even camp whatever "ladder" you made, he'll simply try to path directly towards you.

As for potential "puzzle systems" I could think of a few, but the problem is don't starve isn't a puzzle game. you don't typically want to add content in the opposite direction as what you currently have.

We could absolutely kill deerclops and immediately drop into a candy crush level that we have to beat for deerclops to actually give his drops, but there's no point because no one who plays don't starve wants to play candy crush, if we did, we would be playing candy crush, or a puzzle platformer game with survival aspects.

 

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe the content Klei has been pumping out lately just isn’t targeted towards me, maybe they’re only focus right now is super super late game raid bosses or whatever else they’re doing right now…

 

This is what you've got to remember, klei always aims in the direction that they expect that the general playbase will enjoy. They have to aim for "center mass" as it were. The way the game currently is; a combat loop where you get unique loot for killing unique bosses while trying to survive the constant and it's changing seasons.

They CAN make a big change that might make the playerbase mad, and sometimes they do. but they, generally speaking, should aim for content that is a logical continuation of what is already going on. There's a reason why they're making content past the current "end point" instead of more survival elements. it's because the game just never has been about the survival elements. I mean yeah it's got winter and freezing to death, and summer and overheating, but those are more of a backdrop, or a side objective. The main goal is to accumulate loot and kill the bosses, as evidenced by the fact that there's a total of 3 challenging seasons, and 17(correct me if i'm wrong I just counted the wiki real fast) unique bosses.

The gameplay loop is to first trivialize the survival aspects, then move on and conquer the world. It's not the long dark, it's the forest.

 

Mike, I honestly like you and think you're pretty clever. But you really just don't seem to understand what this game is trying to be. It's a "survival" game in the same sense that minecraft is a survival game. the goal isn't to survive forever. it's to kill the "ender dragon". Don't starve has more survival aspects than minecraft, but it has the same spirit. That's why most people just don't agree on the whole "3d" aspects, because the bulk of the content (the bosses and mobs) will suffer rather than benefit. I mean unless we rebuild the entire game around being a 3d game, with a whole new set of content, then it's overall just kind of pointless, because then we'd just be going through a 3d world rather than a 2d world to do fights on flat arenas anyway.

[_zwb]

28 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

the goal isn't to survive forever. it's to kill the "ender dragon".

Technically speaking don't starve has no inherent goal or task you must complete other than just survive and... that's pretty much it, if you live forever then you've "beaten the game". To answer the question "what do I do now?", we can take the same approach to finding meaning in life, but first a quick word from our sponsor raid shadow legends<insert 3h long unskippable ad>

[Copyafriend]

28 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Technically speaking don't starve has no inherent goal or task you must complete other than just survive and... that's pretty much it

That’s true as much as it is for minecraft. But the “final thing to do” is kill the two most final bosses atm.

Thats why i used minecraft as the example

[lenship2]

2 hours ago, _zwb said:

Technically speaking don't starve has no inherent goal or task you must complete other than just survive and... that's pretty much it, if you live forever then you've "beaten the game". To answer the question "what do I do now?", we can take the same approach to finding meaning in life, but first a quick word from our sponsor raid shadow legends<insert 3h long unskippable ad>

it used to be finding maxwell

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, Fuffles said:

Technically, it is very much possible to do with some recent-ish modding breakthroughs, as we can add real 3D planes with a little black magic and even give them a custom shader. I'm planning to create a mod that does fully implement this in the form of an API so any mod can play around with this without being incompatible with things and a proper mod that actually implements this and plays around with the new possibilities, but I cant say how soon it will release.
There is a lot of limitations that arent something as simple as making the game actually consider the Y-axis etc.
It's more technical than that.

  Reveal hidden contents

• First of all, this method currently has a lot of quirks regarding draw order, this has to be addressed.
• Second of all, for the simplicity of things we'll call one part of these a 3D plane, the game has a hard limit of 512 of these and will instantly crash without warning if its exceeded. This is tricky since every element has to be its own 3D plane and the limit might be an issue due to how overhangs work (especially with multiple turf layers you could make every tile need 9 planes, not to even mention walls). The additional pain of this method is also the fact that other things in this game use this, which could also help in exceeding the limit.
• Third of all, shader restrictions. With this current method I can't pass anything to the shader and can only use 1 texture. This leads to texture monsters such as these for every existing turf.
•   Reveal hidden contents

  • 
• There will also need to be multiple copies of the same shader with slightly altered values because of rain puddles and snow. as I can't just pass a number for their transparency
• Fourth of all, the higher you go, the more you can technically see of the world behind you. The game unloads objects out of view to spare your computer from going on life support, so at heights things will vanish as you go around. I've been thinking about a fog shader to help with this so you wont see things that far back, but this is yet another shader I have to write, and the turf shader alone took me a solid week to get running

TL;DR Yes, mod sometime in the future

 

This is honestly awesome, and I have a few questions..

If you build a wall around you in current dst but leave a gap open, Hounds & spiders will path their way around that wall to enter that opening.

I can only assume that with elevated land as seen in your above teaser, they will path find around the ledge to find the slope or stairs or whatever that leads up to them as well right?

Players who are on Elevated land will they run into invisible walls when trying to drop to a lower elevation? (like solo DS and it’s cardboard cutout ocean)

Or will players be able to “fall off” these elevated platforms & maybe even take health damage from falling depending on the height?

Some games have your character automatically walk up or down stairs and slopes, I have to ask this question will we auto walk up these slopes (thus not be able to build anything in them) or will we be able to manually walk up these stairs/slopes? (being able to place things on them)

Can the player build their own elevation? Such as a set of stairs, or digging terrain into a hill slope?

[GelatinousCube]

Elevation would be cool in the next game in the series (If that's ever a thing). For DST however given how much this would change the game, take up valuable time to implement which would stop other content being created, possible bugs and issues, how long the game has already existed etc etc etc...

Don't want it, don't need it. Doesn't seem necessary, viable or important at all to me. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, GelatinousCube said:

Elevation would be cool in the next game in the series (If that's ever a thing). For DST however given how much this would change the game, take up valuable time to implement which would stop other content being created, possible bugs and issues, how long the game has already existed etc etc etc...

Don't want it, don't need it. Doesn't seem necessary, viable or important at all to me. 

Wouldn’t that ultimately depend on how long Klei plans to support DST?

Theyre still supporting DS (or was rather..) 10 years later, I’m sorry but I don’t want to wait till I’m in my 50’s to get elevation in a DS Sequel, if they plan to support DST for many more years to come- then I’d like to see this.

YOU Don’t want it because you fear it’ll mess up your already existing worlds, but I believe this would only apply very specifically to newly generated worlds, like how The original farm plots continue to exist in worlds that once had them, but in worlds that’s only been through RWYS Old Farm corps can no longer be crafted.

I feel like that if (and that’s a big if..) such a feature was to be added to DST (assuming there are still many more years of support planned for it..) Then it would be about like choosing to spawn a world as “Together” or “Classic”

If you don’t know what the differences are, it removes some of the DST Biomes such as Dragonfly’s Desert won’t exist at all in “Classic” worlds.

Elevated land fall would only apply to new worlds or probably even its own world Gen setting- Aka “Elevated” or “Flat” prior to spawning a game world.

Same rules apply to potential “Archipelago” world Gen, Klei couldn’t just break your current 50,000,000 Day Megabase Cawnival up and let them drift across the sea.. but in newly started worlds it can spawn already broken into an Archipelago.

Again all of this is of course assuming they plan to support the game for another 5-10 years.

[GelatinousCube]

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

YOU Don’t want it because you fear it’ll mess up your already existing worlds, but I believe this would only apply very specifically to newly generated worlds, like how The original farm plots continue to exist in worlds that once had them, but in worlds that’s only been through RWYS Old Farm corps can no longer be crafted.

Stop putting words in my mouth. 

It would mess the whole game up. I didn't mention my existing world's at all.

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wouldn’t that ultimately depend on how long Klei plans to support DST?

Theyre still supporting DS (or was rather..) 10 years later, I’m sorry but I don’t want to wait till I’m in my 50’s to get elevation in a DS Sequel, if they plan to support DST for many more years to come- then I’d like to see this.

You could get a laptop now to solve 95% of your problems, including this one, with mod support.

[gamehun20]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Again all of this is of course assuming they plan to support the game for another 5-10 years.

Mike if they updated the game for another 5-10 biome additions and what not that's even more manure that would need to be made compatible with the elevations

[bloopah]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:07 PM, Fuffles said:

Technically, it is very much possible to do with some recent-ish modding breakthroughs, as we can add real 3D planes with a little black magic and even give them a custom shader. I'm planning to create a mod that does fully implement this in the form of an API so any mod can play around with this without being incompatible with things and a proper mod that actually implements this and plays around with the new possibilities, but I cant say how soon it will release.
There is a lot of limitations that arent something as simple as making the game actually consider the Y-axis etc.
It's more technical than that.

  Reveal hidden contents

• First of all, this method currently has a lot of quirks regarding draw order, this has to be addressed.
• Second of all, for the simplicity of things we'll call one part of these a 3D plane, the game has a hard limit of 512 of these and will instantly crash without warning if its exceeded. This is tricky since every element has to be its own 3D plane and the limit might be an issue due to how overhangs work (especially with multiple turf layers you could make every tile need 9 planes, not to even mention walls). The additional pain of this method is also the fact that other things in this game use this, which could also help in exceeding the limit.
• Third of all, shader restrictions. With this current method I can't pass anything to the shader and can only use 1 texture. This leads to texture monsters such as these for every existing turf.
•   Reveal hidden contents

  • 
• There will also need to be multiple copies of the same shader with slightly altered values because of rain puddles and snow. as I can't just pass a number for their transparency
• Fourth of all, the higher you go, the more you can technically see of the world behind you. The game unloads objects out of view to spare your computer from going on life support, so at heights things will vanish as you go around. I've been thinking about a fog shader to help with this so you wont see things that far back, but this is yet another shader I have to write, and the turf shader alone took me a solid week to get running

TL;DR Yes, mod sometime in the future

 

Oh! Well, consider my first comment void then. But I still think vanilla DST having elevated terrain would be extremely redundant.

[Jrramon_GOLD]

They should added elevated terrain into the DST sequel. In DST 2 there would be elevation and mountains, and you would be able to make 3d structures. 

[gamehun20]

37 minutes ago, Jrramon_GOLD said:

They should added elevated terrain into the DST sequel. In DST 2 there would be elevation and mountains, and you would be able to make 3d structures. 

don't starve three