So about uncompromising Walter...

[Mysterious box]

So I know people like to treat the uncompromising mode mod as the actual devil or a meme to debunk anyone who dislikes the direction the game is headed but it honestly has some really neat stuff and so I've been wondering do you all think Kiel might adopt some of the Walter changes in the uncompromising mode mod for his skill tree? While I wasn't a fan of how they removed his slingshot in the mod I was a big fan of all the other changes both directly and indirectly.

As for what I think would probably be nice to adopt as skills would be his command whistle probably minus the ability to have Woby distract enemies considering she doesn't have the damage mechanic of the mod and it's too good in a world where Walter keeps the slingshot. Also the bonus healing from healing items, and the jerky hat.

The command whistle does a great job at helping Woby and by extension Walter feel more unique as in her current state at the end of the day she's just a combined but slightly nerfed version of a beefalo and chester with infinite hp. However with the change Woby becomes a more active player in Walter's skillset while also removing some of the frustration with using Woby. As for the jerky hat and increased healing from healing items I don't think they'll make a massive difference but they fit very well thematically while expanding on Walter's scout survivalist niche.

 

 

 

 

For reference as I know not a lot of people on here have tried the mod here's the wiki entry:

Walter has recieved a complete rework to his gameplay. He has given up his trusty slingshot in exhange for a command whistle that can be used while right clicking (the whistle does not take up any inventory slots).

By using the whistle, Walter can command Woby and allied creatures to;

Sit/Stay

Pick/Gather items

Distract/Kite enemies (Woby will not give out any damage while doing so)

Dig up objects (Big Woby only)

Chop down trees (Pigmen only)

As a nature lover, Walter hates to see innocent animals suffer.

Walter will lose 9 sanity a minute when Woby is starving.

Walter's sanity will decrease by 1/10 of the damage Woby takes (Woby cannot be killed).

Walter's sanity will decrease when killing a creature equal to how much naughtiness the creature gives.

Walter and Woby have recieved many changes when it comes to food.

Walter starts with and is able to craft a jerky hat that lets him and other players dry foods on the go (foods will dry faster the faster the player is going).

Walter's favorite foods have been expanded all dried foods, except both forms of monster jerky.

Woby's hunger is increased to a maximum of 110 and can now be seen as a meter to Walter.

Woby will revert to her small state when her hunger reaches 30% (33); formerly 0%.

Woby will gain extra hunger points when fed monster jerky and small monster jerky.

During his time in the constant, Walter has earned his first-aid badge.

 Tent Roll now restores Max HP if below 25% penalty.

Walter will recive a 50% healing bonus when using healing items. Healing other creatures will also make them revieve a 50% healing bonus.

Being a master survivalist, Walter spawns with several items craftable without the need to prototype.

Trap

Bird Trap

Fishing Rod

Healing Salve

Honey Poultice

Sweetflower Wrap

Tillweed Salve

Rope

Papyrus

Walter now has the same follower loyalty bonus that Woodie has.

[flamboyant wolf]

Some of the changes to Walter are pretty interesting, but my main gripe with UM Walter is that his downside is now several times more severe, due to insanity being a bigger threat In UM, while he also gets a few additional downsides regarding his sanity (looses sanity if Woby's hungry, so either he needs to keep 2 mouths fed at all times, or has to invest way more effort into sanity management than it's worth(which also removes his upside of not caring about sanity as long as he doesn't get hit) also iirc he looses sanity when killing small animals, which is, whatever), while having lackluster kit: extra inventory, tent, healing items efficiency and help with collecting stuff is nice, however, riding Woby is still inferior to taming a beefalo, jerky hats are nice, but tbh they're more so a necessity to make Woby's hunger management bearable, than an actual upside, what else, knowing a few crafts from the start? inferior version of Wicker's science perk, that will only maybe help you if you're having really bad luck with gold. 

Since he doesn't have a slingshot anymore, he can't attack off of Woby's back in any capacity, and can't really even play it safe with his main downside (which is now worse). 

Basically, UM's changes for Walter fix nothing about his actual issues, and are mostly just a barebones "consolation prize", for taking away the slingshot, to give it to another character. 

UM has a bunch of cool stuff, and clearly has a lot of effort put into it, but character changes and rebalances are pretty bad, imho. 

[Gashzer]

As with any thread that mentions Walter... heres my ideas for Walter's skill tree  

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149175-good-job-klei-on-the-skill-trees-walter-skill-tree/

[GenomeSquirrel]

Not seeing a niche in all that text.

[Cheggf]

Their solution to Walter being "bad" and "all over the place" is to take away his boy scout themed utility belt and replace it with a completely made up random meat hat? Every time I see anything from that mod I read it with a neutral mind, but it always ends up being bad.

Can't comment on the dog commanding. That sounds like something you need to do instead of read about to properly understand. 

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, skile said:

Some of the changes to Walter are pretty interesting, but my main gripe with UM Walter is that his downside is now several times more severe, due to insanity being a bigger threat In UM, while he also gets a few additional downsides regarding his sanity (looses sanity if Woby's hungry, so either he needs to keep 2 mouths fed at all times, or has to invest way more effort into sanity management than it's worth(which also removes his upside of not caring about sanity as long as he doesn't get hit) also iirc he looses sanity when killing small animals, which is, whatever), while having lackluster kit: extra inventory, tent, healing items efficiency and help with collecting stuff is nice, however, riding Woby is still inferior to taming a beefalo, jerky hats are nice, but tbh they're more so a necessity to make Woby's hunger management bearable, than an actual upside, what else, knowing a few crafts from the start? inferior version of Wicker's science perk, that will only maybe help you if you're having really bad luck with gold. 

Since he doesn't have a slingshot anymore, he can't attack off of Woby's back in any capacity, and can't really even play it safe with his main downside (which is now worse). 

Basically, UM's changes for Walter fix nothing about his actual issues, and are mostly just a barebones "consolation prize", for taking away the slingshot, to give it to another character. 

UM has a bunch of cool stuff, and clearly has a lot of effort put into it, but character changes and rebalances are pretty bad, imho. 

While I wasn't hoping for a conversation mainly focused in the context of the mod and more on how specific additions from it would work in the base game. I will say that his changes work better in the context of the mod the jerk hat makes sanity management fairly easy even with getting hurt being more common as it's very cheap and your always on the move making stockpiling sanity foods very easy. The Woby commands also not only speed up exploration but offer a greater degree of safety when compared to the slingshot in most 1v1 and some group fights as the sanity loss from animals and Woby getting hurt is usually way too small to have a big impact so long as you don't rely too heavily on Woby's distraction ability.

12 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Their solution to Walter being "bad" and "all over the place" is to take away his boy scout themed utility belt and replace it with a completely made up random meat hat? Every time I see anything from that mod I read it with a neutral mind, but it always ends up being bad.

Can't comment on the dog commanding. That sounds like something you need to do instead of read about to properly understand. 

The jerky hat feels better in practice it's basically a portable drying rack that you can put anything that you can dry on it also dries things faster based on your movement speed. But I guess the changes overall need to be experienced first hand to see how nice they feel I know I was a skeptic too before I tried it.

[Theukon-dos]

@Scrimbles Walter feedback found in the wild. 

[MondayNight]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So I know people like to treat the uncompromising mode mod as the actual devil or a meme

If you know its "lore", how it came into being, you understand the spite ("we know better what uncompromising means over KLei") and Dunning-Kruger effect of the lower spectrum ("we, the experts - KLei should only take our opinion into consideration when balancing the game" - from a self-proclaimed "expert" and the mod's conceptual creator who... was posting print-screens of him and a friend being "demolished" by classic, default Bearger) that plague it, the mod - or at least how it was in the beginning. With such "origins story" no wonder it became for many a meme. In time they themselves (mod's devs) learned the hard way how to compromise, hence the current "Uncompromising Mode" is more palatable and not so "cringy". Not by much, but still.

 

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Kiel

See? Recurrent ironies like this are the basis for why people such as yourself and certain vocal "Uncompromising"'s fans - also KLei's constant detractors - aren't ultimately taken seriously and in good faith.

 

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

...do you all think Kiel might adopt some of the Walter changes in the uncompromising mode mod for his skill tree? While I wasn't a fan of how they removed his slingshot in the mod I was a big fan of all the other changes both directly and indirectly.

Remember when "Uncompromising"'s main programmer was criticizing in no small amount or without tact ("raging") how Walter's default kit is "all over the place" and "quite gimmicky", making the character "feel bloated"?  Their answer was, in their mod... making him even more bloated and gimmicky - but subtracting his main tool: the slingshot; and with that his unique role of "the ranged character". All of what you enumerate from said mod not only can be subject to the same criticism, but most is likewise superfluous. Still, bulk are nerfs - while understandable in a mod flashing the "uncompromising survival" label,  definitely not desirable in base-game.

Sole utility I personally may find is in that followers whistle - but it might benefit more follower-oriented characters like Wurt, not Walter. I see the line of thinking, yet Pigmen aren't "boyscouts". As for Woby having hunger meter and pseudo-hp ("starving" and "getting hurt") - see how many people fancy taming Beefs mechanic by how many sports them in pubs. Woby is an inferior Beef, thus you can predict how popular of a change this could be for a character that's very unpopular to begin with. All-in-all, "No, ty!" for taking inspiration from a mod, especially that being "Uncompromising Mode".

[Jakepeng99]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So I know people like to treat the uncompromising mode mod as the actual devil or a meme to debunk anyone who dislikes the direction the game is headed but it honestly has some really neat stuff and so I've been wondering do you all think Kiel might adopt some of the Walter changes in the uncompromising mode mod for his skill tree? While I wasn't a fan of how they removed his slingshot in the mod I was a big fan of all the other changes both directly and indirectly.

As for what I think would probably be nice to adopt as skills would be his command whistle probably minus the ability to have Woby distract enemies considering she doesn't have the damage mechanic of the mod and it's too good in a world where Walter keeps the slingshot. Also the bonus healing from healing items, and the jerky hat.

The command whistle does a great job at helping Woby and by extension Walter feel more unique as in her current state at the end of the day she's just a combined but slightly nerfed version of a beefalo and chester with infinite hp. However with the change Woby becomes a more active player in Walter's skillset while also removing some of the frustration with using Woby. As for the jerky hat and increased healing from healing items I don't think they'll make a massive difference but they fit very well thematically while expanding on Walter's scout survivalist niche.

 

 

 

 

For reference as I know not a lot of people on here have tried the mod here's the wiki entry:

Walter has recieved a complete rework to his gameplay. He has given up his trusty slingshot in exhange for a command whistle that can be used while right clicking (the whistle does not take up any inventory slots).

By using the whistle, Walter can command Woby and allied creatures to;

Sit/Stay

Pick/Gather items

Distract/Kite enemies (Woby will not give out any damage while doing so)

Dig up objects (Big Woby only)

Chop down trees (Pigmen only)

As a nature lover, Walter hates to see innocent animals suffer.

Walter will lose 9 sanity a minute when Woby is starving.

Walter's sanity will decrease by 1/10 of the damage Woby takes (Woby cannot be killed).

Walter's sanity will decrease when killing a creature equal to how much naughtiness the creature gives.

Walter and Woby have recieved many changes when it comes to food.

Walter starts with and is able to craft a jerky hat that lets him and other players dry foods on the go (foods will dry faster the faster the player is going).

Walter's favorite foods have been expanded all dried foods, except both forms of monster jerky.

Woby's hunger is increased to a maximum of 110 and can now be seen as a meter to Walter.

Woby will revert to her small state when her hunger reaches 30% (33); formerly 0%.

Woby will gain extra hunger points when fed monster jerky and small monster jerky.

During his time in the constant, Walter has earned his first-aid badge.

 Tent Roll now restores Max HP if below 25% penalty.

Walter will recive a 50% healing bonus when using healing items. Healing other creatures will also make them revieve a 50% healing bonus.

Being a master survivalist, Walter spawns with several items craftable without the need to prototype.

Trap

Bird Trap

Fishing Rod

Healing Salve

Honey Poultice

Sweetflower Wrap

Tillweed Salve

Rope

Papyrus

Walter now has the same follower loyalty bonus that Woodie has.

I like his favourite food being jerky. Other than that, i don't really like anything else.

 

How come he is yet another follower character now? He benifitted well from followers before with his slingshot, though it was not a forced or direct synergy. (Keeping in mind Walter would still have his slingshot)

 

4 hours ago, skile said:

Some of the changes to Walter are pretty interesting, but my main gripe with UM Walter is that his downside is now several times more severe, due to insanity being a bigger threat In UM, while he also gets a few additional downsides regarding his sanity (looses sanity if Woby's hungry, so either he needs to keep 2 mouths fed at all times, or has to invest way more effort into sanity management than it's worth(which also removes his upside of not caring about sanity as long as he doesn't get hit) also iirc he looses sanity when killing small animals, which is, whatever), while having lackluster kit: extra inventory, tent, healing items efficiency and help with collecting stuff is nice, however, riding Woby is still inferior to taming a beefalo, jerky hats are nice, but tbh they're more so a necessity to make Woby's hunger management bearable, than an actual upside, what else, knowing a few crafts from the start? inferior version of Wicker's science perk, that will only maybe help you if you're having really bad luck with gold. 

Since he doesn't have a slingshot anymore, he can't attack off of Woby's back in any capacity, and can't really even play it safe with his main downside (which is now worse). 

Basically, UM's changes for Walter fix nothing about his actual issues, and are mostly just a barebones "consolation prize", for taking away the slingshot, to give it to another character. 

UM has a bunch of cool stuff, and clearly has a lot of effort put into it, but character changes and rebalances are pretty bad, imho. 

Removing his slingshot seems pretty dumb, because being able to kill birds, and having a ranged weapon really fit his downside and boyscout flavour. 

[ShadowDuelist]

The jerky hat seems a very interesting idea, also the Boy Scout themed whistle to command other creatures to be better seems neat as well.

I understand that in the mod’s context they removed the slingshot and made another character entirely around it, but for the base game I think the slingshot IS the direction the actual Walter should go because it’s mostly what was never properly balanced to be useful or fun for him. I wouldn’t mind if they add more boyscout themed stuff as an extra, but not the main thing.

Like Woodie, for example, they essentially fixed most of the stuff he was lacking in his wereforms AND added some lumberjack, Lucy and treeguards stuff as a QOL thing. But his real big punch in the changes , happened around the wereforms. 
They should do that with Walter’s slingshot.

[Gashzer]

20 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The jerky hat seems a very interesting idea, also the Boy Scout themed whistle to command other creatures to be better seems neat as well.

I understand that in the mod’s context they removed the slingshot and made another character entirely around it, but for the base game I think the slingshot IS the direction the actual Walter should go because it’s mostly what was never properly balanced to be useful or fun for him. I wouldn’t mind if they add more boyscout themed stuff as an extra, but not the main thing.

Like Woodie, for example, they essentially fixed most of the stuff he was lacking in his wereforms AND added some lumberjack, Lucy and treeguards stuff as a QOL thing. But his real big punch in the changes , happened around the wereforms. 
They should do that with Walter’s slingshot.

I disagree, buffing woby should be the main direction klei need to go. A few new slingshot special rounds or a new dreadstone/brilliant pellet for planar damage rounds is all the slingshot needs. Otherwise his skill tree should be mostly related to buffing Walter's scout skills (tent, storytelling, campfire cooking, pinecone hat) and a massive focus on Woby.

It would be an absolute disgrace if after the Walter skill tree release. People still chose to tame a beefalo over using big Woby. Big woby should be competitive with a beefalo for all stages of the game and never replaced by one.

As a hardcore Walter main this is my expectation.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

If you know its "lore", how it came into being, you understand the spite ("we know better what uncompromising means over KLei") and Dunning-Kruger effect of the lower spectrum ("we, the experts - KLei should only take our opinion into consideration when balancing the game" - from a self-proclaimed "expert" and the mod's conceptual creator who... was posting print-screens of him and a friend being "demolished" by classic, default Bearger) that plague it, the mod - or at least how it was in the beginning. With such "origins story" no wonder it became for many a meme. In time they themselves (mod's devs) learned the hard way how to compromise, hence the current "Uncompromising Mode" is more palatable and not so "cringy". Not by much, but still.

I've not participated in the drama surrounding the mod but I for the life of me can't understand why everyone feels the need to hold on to it like some undying grudge and feels the need to educate every person not taking a hostile stance against the mod or it's creators did they kill your dog or something?

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

See? Recurrent ironies like this are the basis for why people such as yourself and certain vocal "Uncompromising"'s fans - also KLei's constant detractors - aren't ultimately taken seriously and in good faith.

I'm seriously not sure what your talking about here? But it's clear you have some kind of vendetta against anyone who might like some aspects of things related to them I never even said I was a big fan of uncompromising mode I just said I liked some of the Walter additions calm down.

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Remember when "Uncompromising"'s main programmer was criticizing in no small amount or without tact ("raging") how Walter's default kit is "all over the place" and "quite gimmicky", making the character "feel bloated"?

No but I do remember bunch of content creators saying exactly this and the take becoming popularized everywhere due to it. I don't even agree with the all over the place or bloated take and have been actively arguing against it.

 

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

All of what you enumerate from said mod not only can be subject to the same criticism, but most is likewise superfluous. Still, bulk are nerfs - while understandable in a mod flashing the "uncompromising survival" label,  definitely not desirable in base-game.

So what you got out of "hey it would be cool of some of the mechanics Walter got in uncompromising we're added to the main game" was "Walter sucks and uncompromising did a better Walter?" Whatever grudge you have you need to just let it go because that wasn't what I was trying to say at all but your hate just projects it that way.

 

1 hour ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Sole utility I personally may find is in that followers whistle - but it might benefit more follower-oriented characters like Wurt, not Walter. I see the line of thinking, yet Pigmen aren't "boyscouts". As for Woby having hunger meter and pseudo-hp ("starving" and "getting hurt") - see how many people fancy taming Beefs mechanic by how many sports them in pubs. Woby is an inferior Beef, thus you can predict how popular of a change this could be for a character that's very unpopular to begin with. All-in-all, "No, ty!" for taking inspiration from a mod, especially that being "Uncompromising Mode".

There's nothing wrong with Woby being a inferior beefalo but I want Woby to be more than a baggage carrier into the late game she's perfect for people who stay in the early game tho. Also I never said anything about adding everything only the whistle minus the distraction ability, jerky hat, and I'm beginning to wonder if anyone actually read my post or saw uncompromising and their vision went red.

[ShadowDuelist]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

It would be an absolute disgrace if after the Walter skill tree release. People still chose to tame a beefalo over using big Woby. Big woby should be competitive with a beefalo for all stages of the game and never replaced by one.

The thing is, if they make the slingshot a competitive late game not cheesy weapon to have for crowd control and some damage, Woby will be more interesting over beefalos, at least during a big part of the game, even if untouched, because you have an entirely different way to play the game, always moving and breaking havoc to the enemies at a distance without needing to go through the tedious process of beefalo taming.

Woby is a pocket beefalo already, even if they give him small changes like being able to run at rider speed or allowing Walter over woby to dodge one hit every X seconds entirely, or a “dash-like” move you can do over Woby to dodge attacks, then the true synergy will ultimately fall on the slingshot being good to accomplish things.
 

With a better Woby and no heavily improved slingshot, Walter would again quickly fall into the less picked characters list and not because he would be hard to master like Wormwood, but because he would still be lacking that extra unique thing IMO.

[Jandri]

I have never played the uncompromising mod. How good is it? Is it buggy? How many public dedicated servers using this mod are there?

[Ulisesvolador]

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

did they kill your dog or something?

Reacted with "haha" emote because I find this so funny. 

[Scrimbles]

5 hours ago, skile said:

Some of the changes to Walter are pretty interesting, but my main gripe with UM Walter is that his downside is now several times more severe, due to insanity being a bigger threat In UM, while he also gets a few additional downsides regarding his sanity (looses sanity if Woby's hungry, so either he needs to keep 2 mouths fed at all times, or has to invest way more effort into sanity management than it's worth(which also removes his upside of not caring about sanity as long as he doesn't get hit) also iirc he looses sanity when killing small animals, which is, whatever), while having lackluster kit: extra inventory, tent, healing items efficiency and help with collecting stuff is nice, however, riding Woby is still inferior to taming a beefalo, jerky hats are nice, but tbh they're more so a necessity to make Woby's hunger management bearable, than an actual upside, what else, knowing a few crafts from the start? inferior version of Wicker's science perk, that will only maybe help you if you're having really bad luck with gold. 

Since he doesn't have a slingshot anymore, he can't attack off of Woby's back in any capacity, and can't really even play it safe with his main downside (which is now worse). 

Basically, UM's changes for Walter fix nothing about his actual issues, and are mostly just a barebones "consolation prize", for taking away the slingshot, to give it to another character. 

UM has a bunch of cool stuff, and clearly has a lot of effort put into it, but character changes and rebalances are pretty bad, imho. 

Hi, Uncompromising Mode's lead dev and creator of the Walter Rework / Wixie.

The unfortunate reality of Walter is that there is a huge community stigma against him, due to his lackluster vanilla kit, and constant memes and people clowning on him creating a negative aura when even mentioning his name.

Despite my rework, this stigma still effects Walter, and leads to a lack of feedback for his rework.

One big issue is the power creep that Klei has been introducing with all their characters, Walter was balanced around how the cast was at the time, and was being developed before Wanda was even introduced into the game. But now that we have a load of power crept characters like Wanda, and most characters post refresh, Walter appears to be a weaker character to people, despite having a heck of a lot more versatility than many characters like Wilson, Willow, Wendy, pre-refresh Maxwell, etc.

Kleis constant power creeping and making the game easier is in direct opposition to what our goal with Uncompromising Mode is, to bring back some of the challenge and balance from the older iterations of Don't Starve, and their content as a result has retroactively made Walter's rework look worse than I believe it actually is.

I don't understand what issues aren't being 'fixed' with Walters rework. His issues were that he was spread to thin into a lot of underdeveloped mechanics. His slingshot was very basic, very clunky, and a lot of the ammo types were useless. Woby was basically just chester, and didn't feel like a core part of Walters kit.

I chose to seperate the slingshot into a fully developed ranged combat based character, Wixie, and she has gone over great with the community. For Walter, I chose to expand on Woby being an integral part to his character, by giving her tons more options, but having her hunger be a more important factor that you need to worry about. Walter has less bloated unfinished mechanics, and has more of a core focus on one thing: Woby. I'm surprised you would say it's merely a consolation prize, something that indicates you may not using Walters kit to its fullest. Woby can be used to keep aggro of multiple mobs which can alleviate group fights, which is a pretty major use of her new talents, she can speed up resource collection which lets Walter put more focus into other important areas, like Jerky preparation.

None of this is to say that Walter is beyond feedback, what little feedback I have seen has been about Woby starving a bit too fast, so that's an area I would definitely take feedback to heart, and improve on.

20 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The thing is, if they make the slingshot a competitive late game not cheesy weapon to have for crowd control and some damage, Woby will be more interesting over beefalos, at least during a big part of the game, even if untouched, because you have an entirely different way to play the game, always moving and breaking havoc to the enemies at a distance without needing to go through the tedious process of beefalo taming.

Woby is a pocket beefalo already, even if they give him small changes like being able to run at rider speed or allowing Walter over woby to dodge one hit every X seconds entirely, or a “dash-like” move you can do over Woby to dodge attacks, then the true synergy will ultimately fall on the slingshot being good to accomplish things.
 

With a better Woby and no heavily improved slingshot, Walter would again quickly fall into the less picked characters list and not because he would be hard to master like Wormwood, but because he would still be lacking that extra unique thing IMO.

Walter has a conflicting kit that didn't make good enough use of Woby, or the slingshot. The slingshot was basically just used for marble ammo, felt clunky, and kinda went against the fact that Walter doesn't take sanity aura damage from monsters, which imply he would benefit from being close range.

I split the slingshot into a ranged combat focused character, named Wixie. The slingshot can be manually aimed, it can be charged up for more damage, and every slingshot ammo (aside from rock) has a secondary effect which also scales with charge. Gold ammo shatters and deals damage in a circle, marble ammo will push enemies back, poop ammo will cause targets to panic, and I introduced a bunch of new ammo types like Firecracker which spawns a bouncing, damaging firecracker, Vortex, which creates a shadow vortex that sucks mobs in, and Tremor, which creates earthquake tremors that damage and push enemies away.

Wixie has a downside of being claustrophobic, which makes her panic when she is near mobs, making melee much less viable, and making the slingshot a more core part of her kit.

If Walter having a permanent "chester" which can auto collect resources on command, can aggro mobs and kite them around, can dig up stumps and saplings, and can transform into a mount with a bit of food is considered lacking, then we need to take a critical eye to how absolutely power crept the game has become, and how overloaded so many characters are after their refreshes. Look at what my Walter rework can do compared to Wilson, or Willow, or Wendy, Walter has so much more versatility, but it is being ignored simply because he isn't as insanely overloaded as someone like Wanda, or post refresh Maxwell, or post skill tree and refresh Wormwood.

My options were to either try and keep Walter balanced, without being overloaded, or to power creep him and give him way too strong of a kit compared to his contemporaries. Being that the goal of Uncompromising Mode is to add some challenge back to the game, which is the opposite goal of Klei right now, I think I made the right call.

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I like his favourite food being jerky. Other than that, i don't really like anything else.

 

How come he is yet another follower character now? He benifitted well from followers before with his slingshot, though it was not a forced or direct synergy. (Keeping in mind Walter would still have his slingshot)

 

Removing his slingshot seems pretty dumb, because being able to kill birds, and having a ranged weapon really fit his downside and boyscout flavour. 

I wouldn't say that a goodie two shoes boyscout having the weapon of a delinquent child makes much sense. I don't believe boyscouts are known for weapons like that...

OP failed to inform people that the slingshot wasn't just "removed", it was given to a new character, Wixie, who was made from the ground up to be a character who NEEDS to use ranged combat. It's less clunky, there are new ammo types, reworked ammo types, new mechanics, she can shove mobs away from her, and she suffers when surrounded by mobs.

We don't want to just outright remove fun mechanics, despite what lies people tend to spread.

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Remember when "Uncompromising"'s main programmer was criticizing in no small amount or without tact ("raging") how Walter's default kit is "all over the place" and "quite gimmicky", making the character "feel bloated"?  Their answer was, in their mod... making him even more bloated and gimmicky - but subtracting his main tool: the slingshot; and with that his unique role of "the ranged character". All of what you enumerate from said mod not only can be subject to the same criticism, but most is likewise superfluous. Still, bulk are nerfs - while understandable in a mod flashing the "uncompromising survival" label,  definitely not desirable in base-game.

Sole utility I personally may find is in that followers whistle - but it might benefit more follower-oriented characters like Wurt, not Walter. I see the line of thinking, yet Pigmen aren't "boyscouts". As for Woby having hunger meter and pseudo-hp ("starving" and "getting hurt") - see how many people fancy taming Beefs mechanic by how many sports them in pubs. Woby is an inferior Beef, thus you can predict how popular of a change this could be for a character that's very unpopular to begin with. All-in-all, "No, ty!" for taking inspiration from a mod, especially that being "Uncompromising Mode".

You mean when I was trying to bring up discussion about a character that, to this day, still gets a massive amount of hate from the community?

And, how is stripping down the underwhelming slingshot which conflicts with his character to focus on Woby making him more bloated? I moved the slingshot to a character built for ranged combat, and made the 'Boy and his dog' character about... the Boy and his Dog.

I won't exactly argue that Klei should just rip me off whole sale, it's asking a lot for them to make a new character entirely just to use the slingshot, and I think Klei knows whats best for the direction they want to take their game, but I think you should judge us on different standards, and not slander us based on straw man arguments. I would recommend trying Walter and Wixie out instead! The great thing about Uncompromising Mode is that it is an optional mod. It's not being made with the intention of overthrowing Klei and becoming the new standard, it is a project by some fans who are a bit dissatisfied with their direction these days, and wanted to make new content.

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Their solution to Walter being "bad" and "all over the place" is to take away his boy scout themed utility belt and replace it with a completely made up random meat hat? Every time I see anything from that mod I read it with a neutral mind, but it always ends up being bad.

Can't comment on the dog commanding. That sounds like something you need to do instead of read about to properly understand. 

Why did you separate the fact that Walter can now command Woby to do a bunch more things from the sentence above it?

Walter lost his slingshot, which was moved to a character built from the ground up around ranged combat, and he kept most of his other perks and features, and now has a much more fleshed out Woby that he needs to focus on, who provides him with a lot more utility, rather than just being a chester who you can ride sometimes.

So, no, we didn't replace Walter's perks with "a completely made up random meat hat". That is a part of his kit, but not entirely his kit. Walter gets more bouns stats from Jerky, Woby gets more bonus stats from Jerky (and her hunger matters more), and he gets a new hat which lets him dry meat on the go. It fits in nicely with everything he is already built to do. (Also it dries faster when riding around on Woby/Beefalo).

[Scrimbles]

Okay, I swear I'm not just doing some self promotion, but I wanted to post a trailer we put up for Wixie / Walter to give some proper visual context to what they do.

It's easy to look at OP's post and just scan through a bunch of vague perks that you have no physical interaction with, it's another thing to see them visually, and another thing to experience those mechanics yourselves.

Heres a trailer I put out that shows off a bit of what they can do. Uncompromising Mode is not, and has never been some attempt to overwrite what Klei wants to do with their game. It is simply a fan made project, one that is completely optional, and completely open to feedback!
 

And here are a few promotional gifs we put together to show off what they can do. I hope this provides better context for OP's post.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I've not participated in the drama surrounding the mod but I for the life of me can't understand why everyone feels the need to hold on to it like some undying grudge and feels the need to educate every person not taking a hostile stance against the mod or it's creators did they kill your dog or something?

You posed a statement about said mod. And got a "lore" explanation of possibly why "people like to treat the uncompromising mode mod as the actual devil or a meme". If you don't like what was painted, oh well.. c'est la vie. Is not "an undying grudge" but a meme, as you yourself mentioned it. If something is "undying", thats the mod's devs' vision about "what uncompromising means".

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm seriously not sure what your talking about here?

 

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Kiel

A spelling mistake, right? Totally not ironic, when also criticizing KLei for "not knowing how to balance their game". Akin those with the "Keli" one (admittedly more passable as a spelling mistake though).

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

So what you got out of "hey it would be cool of some of the mechanics Walter got in uncompromising we're added to the main game" was "Walter sucks and uncompromising did a better Walter?" Whatever grudge you have you need to just let it go because that wasn't what I was trying to say at all but your hate just projects it that way.

Because most of those "Uncompromising Mode" modifications to characters are nerfs. And I also know of your previously and repeatedly expressed "characters should've had front and center one big and punishing con, its so fun" game-design philosophy. Likewise you complained in past a lot about Walter more-or-less implying "he sucks". Is not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

There's nothing wrong with Woby being a inferior beefalo but I want Woby to be more than a baggage carrier into the late game she's perfect for people who stay in the early game tho. Also I never said anything about adding everything only the whistle minus the distraction ability, jerky hat, and I'm beginning to wonder if anyone actually read my post or saw uncompromising and their vision went red.

While in theory there isn't indeed anything wrong for Woby to be Beef-, in practice people into riding will almost-always go for a Beef and keep Woby either as extra-inventory on account of her being unreliable and prone to either damage or even get you killed or... ignore her existance completely. Yes, attaching to her a dig-and-fetch mechanic will be nice. But am sure people will still use Beefs instead of her - once more, because she's unreliable when dangers are around; and they're ubiquitously around.

As for Walter, he isn't popular because "his kit is bloated" - he's unpopular because of his punishing con: getting 2x damage-taken to sanity lose is what gets players insane and killed by shadows in record time. Also his 10+ dmg no matter-what-armor-used from "Bees allergies" that ends up as insanity too. Fighting some boss that damages you unless "no-dmg runs" (good luck in pubs with inherent lag) will forever bring into the fight 2-4 "minions" in Shadows' form and we all know ho popular are bosses with minions (i.e, BQ).

[Theukon-dos]

44 minutes ago, Jandri said:

I have never played the uncompromising mod. How good is it? Is it buggy? How many public dedicated servers using this mod are there?

Is it good? Yes. I'd say so. While it's goal is and will always be too make DST harder, it also puts a lot of legwork into updating and buffing stuff that's usually considered underpowered or underused. Plus the mod's custom content like the new biome, new bosses, new items, ect. Are also really good, generally speaking.

 

Is it buggy? Not particularly. A few things tend to slip under the beta testing radar whenever a new update launches, but that stuff's patched within the first few weeks. 

 

Dedicated servers? Couldn't say, I only play solo. 

[Scrimbles]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

For reference as I know not a lot of people on here have tried the mod here's the wiki entry:

I think copying the Wiki entry doesn't fully convey what a character is about. Maybe you could embed the Walter gif in your post to give people a clearer idea of what he can do?



Not gonna lie it's uh, making us look bad when listed off in that format! Sorry!

[Cheggf]

50 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Why did you separate the fact that Walter can now command Woby to do a bunch more things from the sentence above it?

Why did you separate your response to me into three paragraphs?

[Scrimbles]

Just now, Cheggf said:

Why did you separate your response to me into three paragraphs?

Because Klei forums automatically combine subsequent forum posts into an already existing post, I would have liked to separate it but it's done automatically, sorry!

17 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

You posed a statement about said mod. And got a "lore" explanation of possibly why "people like to treat the uncompromising mode mod as the actual devil or a meme". If you don't like what was painted, oh well.. c'est la vie. Is not "an undying grudge" but a meme, as you yourself mentioned it. If something is "undying", thats the mod's devs' vision about "what uncompromising means".

I think it's unfortunate that we are being haunted by a reputation based on a few vaguely half remembered forum posts from 3~ years ago from a person who doesn't code of Uncompromising Mode, a reputation that gets repeated via 'telephone game', where people hear a half truth about us, then spread that half truth to other people when they hear the word "uncompromising".

I have even seen us taking reputation hits from forum posts that aren't even talking about Uncompromising Mode, from people that have never even heard of us, just because they used the word 'uncompromising'.

[GenomeSquirrel]

So what could Walter steal from uncompromised Walter or even Wixie in the context of the base game?

A lot of it looks like off brand Maxwell, and while perhaps everyone is off brand Maxwell, Walter should have something to set him apart.

 

[Scrimbles]

3 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

So what could Walter steal from uncompromised Walter or even Wixie in the context of the base game?

A lot of it looks like off brand Maxwell, and while perhaps everyone is off brand Maxwell, Walter should have something to set him apart.

 

I think Woby having some collection perks could be nice, and some general buffs to utility ammo are a must. I think there is little Klei can do to fully address Walters issues without reworking parts of him, slapping a skill tree on top could make him feel better, but it can only go so far.

(Also, the Walter Rework came out before Maxwell's refresh, so its kind of a shame to hear "off brand Maxwell"!!)

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Scrimbles said:

Hi, Uncompromising Mode's lead dev and creator of the Walter Rework / Wixie.

The unfortunate reality of Walter is that there is a huge community stigma against him, due to his lackluster vanilla kit, and constant memes and people clowning on him creating a negative aura when even mentioning his name.

Despite my rework, this stigma still effects Walter, and leads to a lack of feedback for his rework.

One big issue is the power creep that Klei has been introducing with all their characters, Walter was balanced around how the cast was at the time, and was being developed before Wanda was even introduced into the game. But now that we have a load of power crept characters like Wanda, and most characters post refresh, Walter appears to be a weaker character to people, despite having a heck of a lot more versatility than many characters like Wilson, Willow, Wendy, pre-refresh Maxwell, etc.

Kleis constant power creeping and making the game easier is in direct opposition to what our goal with Uncompromising Mode is, to bring back some of the challenge and balance from the older iterations of Don't Starve, and their content as a result has retroactively made Walter's rework look worse than I believe it actually is.

I don't understand what issues aren't being 'fixed' with Walters rework. His issues were that he was spread to thin into a lot of underdeveloped mechanics. His slingshot was very basic, very clunky, and a lot of the ammo types were useless. Woby was basically just chester, and didn't feel like a core part of Walters kit.

I chose to seperate the slingshot into a fully developed ranged combat based character, Wixie, and she has gone over great with the community. For Walter, I chose to expand on Woby being an integral part to his character, by giving her tons more options, but having her hunger be a more important factor that you need to worry about. Walter has less bloated unfinished mechanics, and has more of a core focus on one thing: Woby. I'm surprised you would say it's merely a consolation prize, something that indicates you may not using Walters kit to its fullest. Woby can be used to keep aggro of multiple mobs which can alleviate group fights, which is a pretty major use of her new talents, she can speed up resource collection which lets Walter put more focus into other important areas, like Jerky preparation.

None of this is to say that Walter is beyond feedback, what little feedback I have seen has been about Woby starving a bit too fast, so that's an area I would definitely take feedback to heart, and improve on.

Walter has a conflicting kit that didn't make good enough use of Woby, or the slingshot. The slingshot was basically just used for marble ammo, felt clunky, and kinda went against the fact that Walter doesn't take sanity aura damage from monsters, which imply he would benefit from being close range.

I split the slingshot into a ranged combat focused character, named Wixie. The slingshot can be manually aimed, it can be charged up for more damage, and every slingshot ammo (aside from rock) has a secondary effect which also scales with charge. Gold ammo shatters and deals damage in a circle, marble ammo will push enemies back, poop ammo will cause targets to panic, and I introduced a bunch of new ammo types like Firecracker which spawns a bouncing, damaging firecracker, Vortex, which creates a shadow vortex that sucks mobs in, and Tremor, which creates earthquake tremors that damage and push enemies away.

Wixie has a downside of being claustrophobic, which makes her panic when she is near mobs, making melee much less viable, and making the slingshot a more core part of her kit.

If Walter having a permanent "chester" which can auto collect resources on command, can aggro mobs and kite them around, can dig up stumps and saplings, and can transform into a mount with a bit of food is considered lacking, then we need to take a critical eye to how absolutely power crept the game has become, and how overloaded so many characters are after their refreshes. Look at what my Walter rework can do compared to Wilson, or Willow, or Wendy, Walter has so much more versatility, but it is being ignored simply because he isn't as insanely overloaded as someone like Wanda, or post refresh Maxwell, or post skill tree and refresh Wormwood.

My options were to either try and keep Walter balanced, without being overloaded, or to power creep him and give him way too strong of a kit compared to his contemporaries. Being that the goal of Uncompromising Mode is to add some challenge back to the game, which is the opposite goal of Klei right now, I think I made the right call.

I wouldn't say that a goodie two shoes boyscout having the weapon of a delinquent child makes much sense. I don't believe boyscouts are known for weapons like that...

OP failed to inform people that the slingshot wasn't just "removed", it was given to a new character, Wixie, who was made from the ground up to be a character who NEEDS to use ranged combat. It's less clunky, there are new ammo types, reworked ammo types, new mechanics, she can shove mobs away from her, and she suffers when surrounded by mobs.

We don't want to just outright remove fun mechanics, despite what lies people tend to spread.

You mean when I was trying to bring up discussion about a character that, to this day, still gets a massive amount of hate from the community?

And, how is stripping down the underwhelming slingshot which conflicts with his character to focus on Woby making him more bloated? I moved the slingshot to a character built for ranged combat, and made the 'Boy and his dog' character about... the Boy and his Dog.

I won't exactly argue that Klei should just rip me off whole sale, it's asking a lot for them to make a new character entirely just to use the slingshot, and I think Klei knows whats best for the direction they want to take their game, but I think you should judge us on different standards, and not slander us based on straw man arguments. I would recommend trying Walter and Wixie out instead! The great thing about Uncompromising Mode is that it is an optional mod. It's not being made with the intention of overthrowing Klei and becoming the new standard, it is a project by some fans who are a bit dissatisfied with their direction these days, and wanted to make new content.

Why did you separate the fact that Walter can now command Woby to do a bunch more things from the sentence above it?

Walter lost his slingshot, which was moved to a character built from the ground up around ranged combat, and he kept most of his other perks and features, and now has a much more fleshed out Woby that he needs to focus on, who provides him with a lot more utility, rather than just being a chester who you can ride sometimes.

So, no, we didn't replace Walter's perks with "a completely made up random meat hat". That is a part of his kit, but not entirely his kit. Walter gets more bouns stats from Jerky, Woby gets more bonus stats from Jerky (and her hunger matters more), and he gets a new hat which lets him dry meat on the go. It fits in nicely with everything he is already built to do. (Also it dries faster when riding around on Woby/Beefalo).

I think the Woby feeding thing is cool, maybe if you gained sainity for Woby being full, but it was harder to keep her full