Why many of us are upset with Wormwood's Skills

[Evelo]

I dislike skill trees but they are here to stay, That is acceptable, so let's make the best out of this and have skills be fun and useful.

Throughout the beta there were so many posts about our beloved Wormwood. There are things that I, and I presume others are unhappy about. As such I will list them.

Seed Sleuth - "Learn to Identify seeds that have just been planted, to determine what they will grow into" The idea of this is fine however you have to talk to the plant before you can identify it. This is problematic when there are a lot of seeds to go and identify. Alternatively you could wait till all the seeds grow to the next stage and identify from there with pure visuals. Might even save more time doing so. Being able to identify seeds in inventory and convert them into appropriate seed types (granted we would need Weed Seeds) would be faster and allow more convenience with resources and especially the players time.

Bramble Trap Specialist - Bramble Traps still damage structures like Walls and Fences. Cool with this trait we don't hurt other players... but what about everything else? Automatic reset is amazing though so I will not scoff at that. We also did not get any skills to work with his Bramble Husk another iconic item from Wormwood's tool kit.

Fly Trap - No changes since its inception. It has been widely criticized as being a relatively if not completely useless trait. LotFF drops crop seeds and not regular seeds which is heavily limited in acquisition especially during Winter or for Light's Out games where they have to rely on Tumbleweed drops. I can see this trait being more fun to engage with if the LotFF was worth slaying or having around more frequently.

Growth Spurt 1 and 2 - "Reach Full Bloom Faster" This in itself isn't a bad trait however when combined with the last trait
Flower Power - "Stay in Full Bloom Longer" it becomes apparent the futility of Growth Spurt 1 and 2. Staying in full bloom has many boons associated with it, and a slight negative (increased hunger drain)  so going into full bloom faster is more advantageous if there is a cyclical nature of Bloom. However we don't have that. Instead we have a tracker that check how much bloom he has. Full list will be listed in the spoiler. It doesn't give reason but with the knowledge of this Growth Spurt 1 and 2 and Flower Power seem to have anti-synergy.

Spoiler

 

Photosynthesis - "Slowly regenerate health when exposed to daylight in full bloom" The hps is rather slow and only works during the day time and near a Dwarf Star. But this skill replaced the beloved Petal Producing skill. The petal production opened up a HUGE variety potential gameplay uses. This reason alone might have been the reason for the removal. However this was not stated by Klei and just having some communication would alleviate my (and hopefully other's) concerns about the removal of petal production in favor of Photosynthesis.

Butterfly Friend - "Butterflies will no longer fly away from you" This skill does nothing. It is cute, yes but realistically it doesn't do anything. I have a larger issue with this skill (and Seed Sleuth) that I will get to later.

Mushroom Mastery/Multiplier "Mushrooms planted in the Mushroom Planter grow faster and with higher yield." Great talents until you look at the next skill...
Moon Shroom Cloud - "Release sleep-inducing spores when eating a Moon Shroom" Another great talent until the lack of synergy slaps you in the face despite being along the same skill line. You cannot grow Moon Shrooms in the Mushroom Planter. Let me repeat that. You cannot grow Moon Shrooms in the Mushroom Planter. So you spent 4 skill points for this apex ability only to learn they have no synergistic value with one another.

Poor Sap - "Learn to craft Ipecaca Syrup to induce pooping in other creatures" I don't really know what this does, so hopefully one of the other Wormwood mains can explain their issues with this talent. It seems like a joke skill that doesn't really add anything to Wormwood.

Sapling, Berry Bush, Juicy Berry Busy, and Monkeytail Crafting - "Sacrifice health to craft X plant" The first three are predominately going to be used by Mega Basers or decorators for... decoration. Giving Wormwood these skills instead of having a separate crafting station encourages players to utilize the celestial portal and sucks up 3 (maybe 4 Monkeytail is different) skill points that have the potential to add something interesting to Wormwood instead of adding another "swap" character. Monkeytail crafting on the other hand has its uses as it can be useful to create Honey Poultice. However given how Monkeytails can already be acquired en masse for free (just requires locating the island) it seems odd to have this be a skill to spend a point on.

Lureplant Crafting - "Sacrifice health to craft Lureplants" A very cool skill that I like a lot, however aside from Wormwood not being attacked by the eyeplants there is no other synergy to incentivize using this. Nothing new was added to the Lureplant to make them stand out especially for wormwood. Like how Maxwell got a unique feature for the Top Hat to differentiate Maxy from other characters with the same item.

Lunar Cultivator 1,2 and 3 - "Summon a Carrat, Lightbulb, or a Saladmander respectively" I love these skills thematically. However carrats only gather food making them less useful over all. Lightbulbs can be replaced with wild lightbulbs that last forever, and Saladmanders having a cap of 2 is saddening. I love Saladmanders and want to hug them. Also we didn't get HD saladmanders this update which... cmon. Perfect time.

 Lunar Guardian 1 and 2 - "Combat bonuses while using Brightshade Armor or Weapons"  Cool stuff however given the left side of the tree "Lunar Cultivator" has 3 talents it is extremely odd to have this have only 2 talents. It is out of balance and brings me to my last point and why this matters a lot"

Skill point distribution - You are required to pick a side, left or right. starting with Seed Sleuth or Butterfly Friend then spend another 5 skills to unlock the Lunar Cultivator or Guardian Perks. If you wish to go all in on left side you spent 11 points plus the 3 for Lunar Cultivator and have 1 point remaining, which you are required to put into Butterfly friend that doesn't do anything. Go all in on right side you are left with 2 points which allows you to pick up Growth Spurt 1 or Farmhand. Missing that extra skill for Lunar Guardian throws the balance of this because of how much more power you are getting out of each skill point. Now, say you spend 6 points on both left and right. You are now left with 3 to distribute to the lunar things as you wish. Grab the 2 Lunar Guardian and 1 Lunar Cultivator, or 2 Lunar cultivator 1 lunar guardian.

If we combine both Seed Sleuth and Butterfly friend into one skill and require only 5 points instead of 6 to be spent on left or right then you can have 4 skill points at the end to distribute how you wish. Now at this time it would be really beneficial to add a 3rd Lunar Guardian skill so players can pick and choose. Grab 2 Lunar Cultivator 2 Lunar Guardian, but which ones? Grab 3 Lunar Guardian and 1 Cultivator? No problem. Just want 3 guardian and free skill go ahead. The lack of balance in skill point usage is very unsatisfying and sours the experience some what.

 

Now I don't want people to assume I (and some others) are totally unhappy with this. There are good things. Farmhand use to be 3 skill points for nothing. Now it is just 1 and harvests faster. We got the Bramble Trap inclusion. Mushrooms can be encouraged to be used by Wormwood. The Lunar skills are really fun and awesome. Bee Kind was changed to not aggravate bee boxes. But there are things that still need to be resolved or at least talked about for me (and some others) to be truly happy with the state of Wormwood's skill tree.

We want Wormwood to be fun and have skills that tie into the gameplay. Sadly a lot of the skills do not synergies like they would suggest or just do nothing at all.

Let's turn this into this

[HowlVoid]

Thank you for this well put thread, I removed mine specifically because it wasn't going to encourage any meaningful discussion. 

I felt hurt but it wouldn't be fair for my feelings to come to discredit posts like yours. Which were given more time to be thought out.

I also forgot I was discrediting the devs for having considered some of our thoughts, but that short where wormwood was just being bullied kinda got to me...

The plant crafts really should of been available to everyone instead of being stuck behind a dlc character. The sheer amount of berries you need to do anything meaningful with those skills does feel like this was aimed specifically for the intention of character swapping. I don't have a problem with character swapping, but like you said something more meaningful could of been placed there.

Wormwoods was already something of perk soup with wanting to make him a farming character at the last second where he wasn't before. Wormwood was more of a one with nature type of character. 

I was really hoping he would go from perk soup to being able to have a focus and I was really excited for it. Instead we got skill tree soup.

Also seeing something like this:

Credit to @Sapientis

And I wonder, having great organization in his skill tree is completely possible. So what exactly do we have to say to get something like this? How can we be heard? What are they looking for to see what we see? We're trying everything, and I'm running out of ideas.

[Evelo]

8 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I felt hurt but it wouldn't be fair for my feelings to come to discredit posts like yours. Which were given more time to be thought out.

but that short where wormwood was just being bullied kinda got to me...

I completely understand. Despite Klei being the "parents" of Wormwood I feel such a sense of love for him. Everything about him is something I thoroughly enjoyed before the update. Now there are things I want to like but am struggling to because of inconsistencies and lack of synergy. Don't be too hard on yourself but good on you for acknowledging negative things.

If there is anything you want to add please by all means feel free. We both want what is best for our lovely plant friend. Wormwood doesn't need to be a Wolfgang or Wanda, or a Wicker or Maxy. Wormwood is Wormwood. Let's reinforce his uniqueness.

[Picklesaurus]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

And I wonder, having great organization in his skill tree is completely possible. So what exactly do we have to say to get something like this? How can we be heard? What are they looking for to see what we see? We're trying everything, and I'm running out of ideas.

What would Bramble Husk Specialist do? Don't you prefer the original position of Carrats? I wish carrats could pick up manure from the ground as well, they already pick up rot. It would also be nice if carrats and saladmanders could teleport near WW after a certain distance from them to prevent them from getting stuck when you are too fast. I also Would really love for petals to be back in some way, the idea of a single slot that appears when WW is bloomed similar to wilson beard but for petals is great.

Edit: I found out Carrats, Saladmanders and Lightbugs already teleport near WW after a certain distance which is really good!

[HowlVoid]

9 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

What would Bramble Husk Specialist do? Don't you prefer the original position of Carrats? I wish carrats could pick up manure from the ground as well, they already pick up rot. It would also be nice if carrats and saladmanders could teleport near WW after a certain distance from them to prevent them from getting stuck when you are too fast. I also Would really love for petals to be back in some way, the idea of a single slot that appears when WW is bloomed similar to wilson beard but for petals is great.

If carrats had more uses absolutely! Right now they only pick up food... 

I agree about saladmanders.

For bramble husk, I'd love anything at this point lol. On this skill tree it's pretty low so even just refueling them would be a meh thing. Their damage as a reflection tool isn't great, it's defence is fine as is, but you're not rewarded for kiting with it. You're also not rewarded for tanking with it.

I think there are a couple things they could add.

[Picklesaurus]

47 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

For bramble husk, I'd love anything at this point lol. On this skill tree it's pretty low so even just refueling them would be a meh thing. Their damage as a reflection tool isn't great, it's defence is fine as is, but you're not rewarded for kiting with it. You're also not rewarded for tanking with it.

I think there are a couple things they could add.

How about +8 normal damage, some planar damage I dont know the numbers and it activates itself every 3 seconds when wore by WW withouth the need to be hit? I dont know how strong or weak this would be, in case it is too strong it could use 1% or 1,5% of its durability or instead take away 1 or 0,5 hp from WW everytime it activates this way.

[Wonz]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Bramble Trap Specialist - Bramble Traps still damage structures like Walls and Fences. Cool with this trait we don't hurt other players...

Not being able to grief shouldn't be a perk but default thing.  

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Poor Sap - "Learn to craft Ipecaca Syrup to induce pooping in other creatures" I don't really know what this does, so hopefully one of the other Wormwood mains can explain their issues with this talent. It seems like a joke skill that doesn't really add anything to Wormwood.

 

You use it to get to turn 1 rot, 1 red cap, 1 honey into 15 poops if you feed a pig.for example.  

 

I also don't like almost all perks he got.

[Frashaw27]

I will say that Wormwood's skill tree is very interesting as his skill tree obviously has the most effort put into it, reworking several systems like mushroom planter growth and harvesting, summoning spore clouds when eating, making the thulecite club upgrade with the brightshade sword, regening when only under specific conditions, summoning bosses more often. All of these are really interesting... but they're as useful a gun in a blank room. In fear of making Wormwood broken, both in the balance and bug producing senses, they seem to take half measures in giving Wormwood worth while skills. Like you could say Wolfgang's Mightiness Cap increases isn't that useful because it barely does anything of value, but Wormwood's skill tree is mediocre most of the time. I personally don't have any problems with the perks they picked, besides flytrap which is just actually bad, they just don't give a specific benefit well enough half the time. I personally don't mind the summoning restrictions because that doesn't really seem to be his thing, like they should still be good but they shouldn't be super amazing imo. 

However, I don't think they're specifically hating on Wormwood. As said before, a lot of his skill tree clearly had the most effort in it. Like I don't think the entire Wolfgang skill tree took as long to make as something like the brightshade specific requirements.  I think Klei delivered on what his skill tree should be like, but went about balancing both the point distribution and skills themselves a little bit too heavy handedly to the point where it feels bad. I do hope the update that adds the dreadstone pillars includes some wormwood changes.

[Mike23Ua]

I mean compared to what he started as, what he got in rework, what he got in QOL patches, and what he got in his skill trees Wormwood is in a really good spot right now.

I feel like some people are just upset he didn’t get a very specific set of skills they were wanting that weren’t on Klei’s Agenda.

[V2C]

Thanks for the feedback guys! We'll be taking a look at it with the team.

[HowlVoid]

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

I will say that Wormwood's skill tree is very interesting as his skill tree obviously has the most effort put into it, reworking several systems like mushroom planter growth and harvesting,

Wasn't reworked, the first and second tier make it grow 10 and 20% faster which only adds 1-4 additional yields per year.

Rework would be if they worked in winter or allowed the planting of moonshrooms. 

There was a change in value where mushrooms could have a similar value to spores but that also wasn't a rework.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

summoning spore clouds when eating,

That was a new addition, yes.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

making the thulecite club upgrade with the brightshade sword

That was also a new addition, unfortunately unlike straight planar dmg increases like Wolfgang and Wilson, they have the same weaknesses as the tentacles of the club. They can miss and can't catch up to fast enemies on top of some RNG element.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

, regening when only under specific conditions,

Its nice on paper but early game where it would be the most useful your are the most limited by blooming chances. 

Alternatively, where it might more useful later on its healing is low. But there is a separate issue with the follow up to said skills not being great in the later parts of the game where someone may want to be perma bloom with growth formula. 

Overall I'd say this path is not bad but not great.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

summoning bosses more often.

One boss, and it's the worst one for wormwood to have. Wormwood tends to plants already while blooming, the cutefly also doesn't work unload so wormwood already has to be there anyways. Nothing from the Lord of the fruitflies could add anything of use to wormwood.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

All of these are really interesting...

Somewhat, their execution could be a tad better.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

but they're as useful a gun in a blank room. In fear of making Wormwood broken, both in the balance and bug producing senses, they seem to take half measures in giving Wormwood worth while skills. Like you could say Wolfgang's Mightiness Cap increases isn't that useful because it barely does anything of value, but Wormwood's skill tree is mediocre most of the time. I personally don't have any problems with the perks they picked, besides flytrap which is just actually bad,

And butterfly friend... He doesn't benefit at all from this skill. You can already out run butterflies and kill them easily... Except wormwood didn't need to because you don't heal from them...

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

they just don't give a specific benefit well enough half the time. I personally don't mind the summoning restrictions because that doesn't really seem to be his thing, like they should still be good but they shouldn't be super amazing imo. 

However, I don't think they're specifically hating on Wormwood. As said before, a lot of his skill tree clearly had the most effort in it.

That would be woodie in my personal opinion. I also think wormwoods skill tree lacks the most organization of the three.

25 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Like I don't think the entire Wolfgang skill tree took as long to make as something like the brightshade specific requirements.  I think Klei delivered on what his skill tree should be like, but went about balancing both the point distribution and skills themselves a little bit too heavy handedly to the point where it feels bad. I do hope the update that adds the dreadstone pillars includes some wormwood changes.

Same.

[Dextops]

12 minutes ago, V2C said:

Thanks for the feedback guys! We'll be taking a look at it with the team.

Praise be 

[bloopah]

15 minutes ago, V2C said:

Thanks for the feedback guys! We'll be taking a look at it with the team.

Please do! Personally, I'm very much in support for skill trees, but I agree with the original post that Wormwood's still has a bit to be desired. It always confused me why the "crafting" stuffs aren't on the same branch as the Lunar mobs, which means you'd be unable to take advantage of his new crafts without resetting via the Celestial Portal.

Additionally, another thing this post hasn't mentioned is that you're unable to craft Grass Tufts, which seems a bit silly. You can craft Juicy Berry Bushes for Berry Bushes, which you can use to craft even more Juicy Berry Bushes and then even more Berry Bushes, etc. but not one of the biggest providers of the most common resource that may go extinct if all of it happens to turn into Grass Geckos and a mishap were to happen to the population?

[NNOUS]

how many post is like this now? U had successfully squeeze an PR reply isnt it quite enough? each time there must be some negativity and obsession on the front page is really not called for.

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, NNOUS said:

how many post is like this now? U had successfully squeeze an PR reply isnt it quite enough? each time there must be some negativity and obsession on the front page is really not called for.

I mean there isnt really any need for this much negativity. I am fairly satisfied with wormwoods skill tree but if they COULD work on it more that would be great.
 

They made serious points and they are really just hoping for a little change, its perfectly reasonable to want your favorite character to be well developed and interesting

[Wonz]

Would make sense if he got perk that lets him get logs without killing trees but not as good as chopping or maybe just as good or better but costing him right in health or Idk hugging trees and asking them politely to grow a spare part to share. If it was some sort of cartoon/show/story I would see him go for chopping in extreme scenario while rather choose it as first resort.  

[Evelo]

55 minutes ago, V2C said:

Thanks for the feedback guys! We'll be taking a look at it with the team.

Of course, thank you for taking the time to take a look. We appreciate this greatly.

[HowlVoid]

12 minutes ago, NNOUS said:

how many post is like this now? U had successfully squeeze an PR reply isnt it quite enough? each time there must be some negativity and obsession on the front page is really not called for.

Sorry you're out of the loop but the whole community rallied for wormwood on the stream to the point it took the stream off course a bit. I was delighted that a lot of people want to see wormwood improvements. 

On stream they said they would like to see us keeping the feedback to the forums and that the correct people would take a look. 

So yeah, this was a collective effort by lots of people.

[Fufuji]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Thank you for this well put thread, I removed mine specifically because it wasn't going to encourage any meaningful discussion. 

I felt hurt but it wouldn't be fair for my feelings to come to discredit posts like yours. Which were given more time to be thought out.

I also forgot I was discrediting the devs for having considered some of our thoughts, but that short where wormwood was just being bullied kinda got to me...

The plant crafts really should of been available to everyone instead of being stuck behind a dlc character. The sheer amount of berries you need to do anything meaningful with those skills does feel like this was aimed specifically for the intention of character swapping. I don't have a problem with character swapping, but like you said something more meaningful could of been placed there.

Wormwoods was already something of perk soup with wanting to make him a farming character at the last second where he wasn't before. Wormwood was more of a one with nature type of character. 

I was really hoping he would go from perk soup to being able to have a focus and I was really excited for it. Instead we got skill tree soup.

Also seeing something like this:

Credit to @Sapientis

And I wonder, having great organization in his skill tree is completely possible. So what exactly do we have to say to get something like this? How can we be heard? What are they looking for to see what we see? We're trying everything, and I'm running out of ideas.

IMO the Lunar Guardian skills might serve as a solution against mob swarms and Light bugs and Saladmanders summoning serve as real combat skills…for the fact that 2 saladmanders will deal almost the same (higher without animation canceling) DPS compared to Lunar Guardian II. And saladmanders can attract aggro allowing Wormwood to safety apply some fertilizers then come back to Boss battles.

What I am saying is the summoning branch should stay with other combat skills, not the Lunar Guardian ones, if there wouldn't be a buff to Lunar Guardian II.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I'm more upset that wormwood has so much spotlight right now that Wolfgang didn't get any tweaks to his skill tree it's so basic and barebones it feels like nothing was even added.

[Dextops]

Just now, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I'm more upset that wormwood has so much spotlight right now that Wolfgang didn't get any tweaks to his skill tree it's so basic and barebones it feels like nothing was even added.

klei touched on this in their rhymes with play stream and said that they didn't want to make him more op, and the main goal was just so he had more relevancy in post rift content. I might disagree with the sentiment i can see where they are coming from, if they did add substantial changes i'd predict a large portion of the community being upset about "wolfgang op getting more op" even if i disagree with that it's probably something klei wanted to avoid. basically wolfgangs skill tree was walking on egg shells

[goatt]

I agree with you. But after thinking about twice, thrice and more, I start to look at it from different perspective and start to think that it makes sense.

The skill tree update is not to significantly improve characters so much so that it becomes character rework. Its main goal is to provide new players hints while giving existing fan base something to play with. This is my new realization, which can be wrong, and correct me if you can.

We can see that in Wolfgang skill tree. Nothing significant. Doesn't boost his damage against non-planar content. And boost his damage against planar content to the level of dark sword. Evidence can be seen in the final damage of Wolfgang and Weremoose. So in general, there isn't much changed in the context of planar area.

I can imagine all the other characters' skill trees will be also like that. Nothing significant, but something interesting for old players to play with... except for Woodie. Woodie needed a real boost, so he got a significant QoL update that smooth out his edges and bring him up to the level that we are happy with.

Looking at Wormwood's skill tree, I think most of the skills aren't significant. Synergy shouldn't be a priority. Synergies would be great if it's something trivia. Bee Kind is one of them. Weak followers are also one of them. But Moon Shroom is a bit too significant because its unique power in new content, I'm guessing. I think Photosynthesis gets to stay because it's nice enough on paper (if we didnt see petals), but trivia enough in practice. Petal is a bit too significant, I'm guessing. By significant, I mean you will quite significantly change how you play Wormwood solely because of the skills. (For example, primarily relying on photosynthesis or petals for healing, or relying on followers to fight, or being perceived as a real fighter.)

For the future updates, I imagine the characters that the community is very unhappy with will get significant updates. And for other characters, skill trees will just be nice and interesting, and help improve damage against planar content, rather than any new significant powers. I'm looking at your, Walter.

For future characters, I guess we can expect planar weapons' damage against planar content will be up to darksword damage and slightly more. And most skill trees will be about smoother power and abilities for new content rather than simply more powerful mechanics.

I think my old expectation comes from Klei's vague (imo) communication whose intention was to please both old and new players. Their real goal is hidden in 2023 roadmap (with vague wording), I think. To understand their moves and predict their future moves, you have to understand their goal.

For the next 3 character skill trees, one of  them will be very interesting so that people will be distracted from the fact that the other 2 are rather trivia and the fact that all 3 are kinda insignificant.

I can be completely wrong, which may be proved soon when the next skill trees are revealed.

Oh I heard they streamed. I didn't watch that. Will look out for someone's summary later xD.

[pyroisshy]

Klei wanted to make new updates to add lategame challenges and appeal to lategame players, and then now 3 updates later all of them are some of the most controversial and flawed updates in the entire update history. Beta's should last waaaaaaaaay longer for these kinds of updates. Even if not all fans think these updates are outright bad, most of them think they could be way better.

[Lossy15]

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

We also did not get any skills to work with his Bramble Husk another iconic item from Wormwood's tool kit.

Alright, i heard about a bramble husk concept, many times, but, what kind of buff the armor can get?

I really want to know what more they could add on a armor that gives immunity to spikes and gives damage.

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

You cannot grow Moon Shrooms in the Mushroom Planter.

I Really REALLY want this, fr, i don't want to go to the same place every single day to get only 8 mushrooms

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

Photosynthesis - "Slowly regenerate health when exposed to daylight in full bloom" The hps is rather slow and only works during the day time and near a Dwarf Star. But this skill replaced the beloved Petal Producing skill. The petal production opened up a HUGE variety potential gameplay uses. This reason alone might have been the reason for the removal. However this was not stated by Klei and just having some communication would alleviate my (and hopefully other's) concerns about the removal of petal production in favor of Photosynthesis.

Photosynthesis is fine, not amazing, just, fine;

Tbh, 1 hp in every 20 seconds is fair, anything above thet would be considered "op", and it would remove his main downside, just like Woodie.

BUT, they could merge it with the petal production.

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

Fly Trap - No changes since its inception. It has been widely criticized as being a relatively if not completely useless trait. LotFF drops crop seeds and not regular seeds which is heavily limited in acquisition especially during Winter or for Light's Out games where they have to rely on Tumbleweed drops. I can see this trait being more fun to engage with if the LotFF was worth slaying or having around more frequently.

Downside skill, i'll not miss it if they remove it, and replace it with something ACTUALLY worth it

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

Poor Sap - "Learn to craft Ipecaca Syrup to induce pooping in other creatures" I don't really know what this does, so hopefully one of the other Wormwood mains can explain their issues with this talent. It seems like a joke skill that doesn't really add anything to Wormwood.

It's a cheap and faster way to get manure without the need to go to the caves to get lightbulbs, knowing that you can mass produce it, is a really nice alternative.

I'm glad that they gave the syrup a buff, now the joke skill is actually helpful.

[Sapientis]

I'd like a Bramble Husk Specialist skill and Lightbugs being LC I, but if nothing else makes it I'd be happy with just Moon Shroom Planters. This would match Wormwood's new skin! How come he's a Moon Shroom but cannot plant his little offsprings in a planter?

I feel like his skill tree has some great skills, it just needs some pruning here and there to make room for new leaves.

Also,
Bloom Meter would be really nice to have.