A lot of people claim DST is easier than DS - Why is that, exactly?

[RoughCactus69]

On 7/14/2023 at 4:49 PM, Copyafriend said:

Yeah except... You're fairly wrong. All of this is true... to some extent?

I mean aside from reviving easier in together, any challenge from solo is GREATLY magnified in together. "stronger characters" lmao did we forget somehow that almost every single mob is two or more times stronger in together? Because I do for the most part, until I remember, "oh yeah dont starve solo is LAUGHABLY easy"

Option content means the game is easier? No it doesn't. Dont starve solo is INCREDIBLY easy if you never interact with "optional content" I'll sit at my base and make meatballs and never leave and let literally 1 single treeguard take down deerclops. And in shipwrecked? I'll sit at my base and make FISH STICKS a food that heals for 40 health a bite with nothing but a rock with some snails on it, logs (ice machine???) and a single twig. How on earth are you going to claim that together is easier just because MOST of the content is optional? do you forget HOW DUMMY EASY solo is?

If you survived long enough for resources to go extinct (Obsolete means that the resource is inferior to another, not gone from existence. i don't think you're dumb by saying this I'm just trying to educate) Then you are VERY CLEARLY well past the "survival" stage of solo. which by the way is the first year. Anything past the first year is dumb dumb easy. you're not going to run out of meat effigies unless you're literally committing suicide.

4# is this a joke? Are you that bad at the game to where you honestly believe that FOOD of all things... is hard to come by in winter? Winter is literally easier than autumn to obtain food in. The food (pengulls) LITERALLY COMES TO YOU. One single piece of meat from ANY source and ice (which is completely hazard free in the mini glaciers) and you have food for an entire day. Are you really trying to claim that solo is harder because farming isn't complete garbage? OH WAIT. Except farming is LITERALLY EASIER in solo if you just... stockpile rot, or manure, or any fertilizer at all. Just spam out dragonfruits as soon as you get a seed, if I recall correctly (I am not gonna bother looking it up) you get around 1 dragonfruit per 12 fertilizer (of any kind) because it takes 6 to make a dragonfruit, and about half go back into the bird.

5# sorry, the "rogue lite adventure mode" is all optional content, by your definition, it does not matter for the difficulty discussion. And if we're going to include optional content, together DEFINITELY wins the difficulty argument. By the way, adventure mode is ez af if you go back to it, I did and beat it as  wes on the first try. Guess its easy to forget that clockworks have 300 health, not 900 in that game mode. And don't even try to act like "permanent winter" is really a challenge. a single thermal stone defeats it, just keep moving and get all the food as you go and you'll be fine.

6# A: thats all optional content

B: having NEW threats does not make the threats inherently harder. I would very much argue that hamlet is the easiest dlc thanks to your own personal hideyhole that you're effectively invincible in, and an entirely friendly pig village that you can farm for resources. Oh the "aporkalypse" yeah just turn that off, all you really need is a couple feathers for a gas mask.

C: having multiple DLC trivialize the second and third dlc that you enter, only really multiplying your "power" as you jump from one to the next with enough prep to already slap around the strongest threats with ease. are you really gonna pretend that the dlcs that literally include a safe haven and an ice machine that produces effectively infinite food are harder than the original reign of giants?

D: each dlc is around the same difficulty wise, the lack of brand new worlds for dlc is a result of their desire to refine one world and not just keep sticking a new world onto the existing content and pretending that its a brand new game. its not a flaw, its a choice.

7# A: beefalo have only 1k health, This is in fact only SLIGHTLY stronger than a regular character wearing a football helmet (750 effective health, 150 * 5 for 80% protection) except you cant heal easily and also do less damage, and also attack slower, and also also also

B: day 1 beefalo with 500 health in solo dont starve. which is roughly equivalent due the whole "most mobs have half the health in solo" thing. dont worry, some mobs actually have a THIRD of the health in solo, so really theres an argument for beefalo being stronger in solo.

Someone hasnt been keeping up with solo dont starve updates. Lmao.

 

oh yeah also

Armor is literally stackable in solo, that means that you can wear a football helmet, WITH log armor in solo, and not only have 50%ish more durability compare to together, but ALSO you now have 96% damage protection with two stupid cheap pieces of armor, also know as wigfrid with marble armor levels of defense.

 

So yeah, now that I deconstructed your entire argument basically, let me explain to you why you think you're right, when really you have no ground to stand on, or reasonable arguments... at all.

 

NOSTALGIA.

yep. you are literally just remembering wrong. You are literally, just remembering dying a lot, and equating that to "the times when the game was good" when the game was ALWAYS preeeettty easy man. you just didnt know how to survive yet.

 

 

I never really got into DS myself. I started to play DST during the dead phase. (No content updates at all). 

 

I will say. From the start of DST to now the game itself has gotten easier whether you believe it or not. There's just so much more information and tools available to us that make the game easier.

#1: Scrapbook telling us enemies health, their sanity drain, their attack.

#2: Punching Bags telling us how much damage each weapon uses.

#3: Cookbook showing us recipes. 

#4: Characters having favorite foods

#5: Characters themselves getting major buffs (I know Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, and WX got a ridiculous nerf but the rest of the characters got buffs)

#6: More foods to eat (Like that stuffed Tallbird egg that gives 60 HP. That used to not be in the game. Tallbird eggs used to be solely used for bacon and eggs!)

There's even more I'm not labeling!

Now, I will say there are harder bosses. That is a truth. But the base game is easier. It really really is. I personally know I've gotten better. I know that maybe a bit of it is nostalgia. But there are just more tools available to the players for them to get adjusted to the world quicker. 

Sincerely, Cactus

 

On 7/16/2023 at 3:04 PM, Mike23Ua said:

DST is becoming less and less DS with each update.

I agree with you Mike. I think it's becoming less and less DS/DST the more and more that's added.

 

What I would GLADY welcome is a difficulty slider.

For instance:

Wimpy --> Easy --> Normal --> Hard --> Wes

 

Just things where if it's turned up less food, faster hunger drain, more nightmare creatures, you take more damage, winter is colder, summer is hotter, etc.

 

I do think the game needs a difficulty slider. Not just the ability to add more of this, or remove more of that.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus

[Ridley]

Currently replaying DS content for the first time in 4 years. I'm Wagstaff, spent a season cycle in ROG, killed Ancient Guardian, spent a few season cycles hunting down all the bosses in Shipwrecked, just turned off the Aporkalypse in Hamlet, and I am about to hunt the remaining bosses there. The finish line will be the completion of Adventure mode.

Prior to this, I played Wionna and had to rollback the server because Fuelweaver camped my respawn. Then I played Wanda first the time on Solo survival, and lost everything because I got spawn camped by a random swamp tentacle.

Gotta say, given the recent experiences, little about DS was harder than DST. The exceptions were starting in ROG Spring (good thing wetness doesn't freeze you), using log rafts to recover my dropped items at sea after catching a meteor during a crocodog wave (they camped that area afterwards), and starting Hamlet in Aporkalypse.

Meanwhile, I can't but notice how tanking most bosses is a cheap and fast way to wipe 'em out. This doesn't apply to some like DS Dragonfly, who just forces you to take tea breaks during the fight to cooldown. Watching Dragonfly roam the world again was pretty cool, but the fight is lame compared to DST. Aporkalypse also got so much easier when I stopped running and kiting from Ancient Herald and just held F. He dies to a hambat before his summons can do anything to stop you.

DST mobs having double health was never lost on me while playing DS because groups of enemies were easier to manage, most fights were half as long, and weapon durability was basically doubled. A pig helmet and log suit eclipse any armor DST could offer you. DS wetness is annoyance, not a frigid threat. Meat Effigy prudence prevents world resetting in both games, but DST doesn't warp you to the touch stones or Meat Effigies in different shards like DS does. 

As someone who plays DST usually Solo, DS feels way easier. Multiplayer has the potential to make the opposite true, but keeping new players alive is so stress inducing.

As for what makes DST feel less like DS? I used to think like that before DST even existed, but now I feel like I was being silly over devs changing what was important to me, when it was my fault for putting so much importance into something that is ultimately unimportant.

I love DS, DST, and the work Klei has done over the years to maintain them. 

[Dextops]

3 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

Scrapbook telling us enemies health, their sanity drain, their attack.

#2: Punching Bags telling us how much damage each weapon uses.

#3: Cookbook showing us recipes. 

#4: Characters having favorite foods

1,2, and 3 were being wikied anyway. Now that they’re in game you don’t have to use an outside website to learn stuff like that and I think it’d be cooler to have more stuff like that. Favorite foods are also almost entirely just flavor perks for personality.

 

3 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

6: More foods to eat (Like that stuffed Tallbird egg that gives 60 HP. That used to not be in the game. Tallbird eggs used to be solely used for bacon and eggs!)

And yet the food sources from way back when are still the best ones.

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

And yet the food sources from way back when are still the best ones.

Banana shakes enabled by banana bushes have literally imploded the sanity economy of the game.

No other sanity crockpot dish can compete with it. The only one that gets close in the late game is jelly salad, another new dish 

many of the newer food sources/crockpot dishes have completely abandoned the balance that older food sources/dishes adhere to. So many of the new dishes allow twig fillers for example.

[Dextops]

39 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Banana shakes enabled by banana bushes have literally imploded the sanity economy of the game.

No other sanity crockpot dish can compete with it. The only one that gets close in the late game is jelly salad, another new dish 

I’ve never really had to use sanity dishes and when I do it’s taffy because I have such an abundance of honey because of how absolutely massive of a harvest you can get from just one picking. It’s enough to last a season.

[Ardyn]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Banana shakes enabled by banana bushes have literally imploded the sanity economy of the game.

No other sanity crockpot dish can compete with it. The only one that gets close in the late game is jelly salad, another new dish 

many of the newer food sources/crockpot dishes have completely abandoned the balance that older food sources/dishes adhere to. So many of the new dishes allow twig fillers for example.

Bananas reduce the experience of farming, an update actually reduces the content of the game - how counterintuitive.

[D_Good_Fellow]

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

A pig helmet and log suit eclipse any armor DST could offer you.

This is honestly huge and I forget about it sometimes. The armor defense stacking in the original DS makes a truly colossal difference when playing by yourself.

5 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

#1: Scrapbook telling us enemies health, their sanity drain, their attack.

#2: Punching Bags telling us how much damage each weapon uses.

#3: Cookbook showing us recipes. 

I would honestly disregard these three because atm it's still easier to just google these things than it is to figure it out within the UI of the game. Especially cookbook/scrapbook, which are meant to be tutorial-like but are legitimately harder to use than having the wiki open on your phone while you play. These things were definitely added to make things easier (or at least clearer), but in practice I can't think of a single time one of these items would be convenient to use.

[Copyafriend]

21 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I never really got into DS myself. I started to play DST during the dead phase. (No content updates at all). 

 

I will say. From the start of DST to now the game itself has gotten easier whether you believe it or not. There's just so much more information and tools available to us that make the game easier.

#1: Scrapbook telling us enemies health, their sanity drain, their attack.

#2: Punching Bags telling us how much damage each weapon uses.

#3: Cookbook showing us recipes. 

#4: Characters having favorite foods

#5: Characters themselves getting major buffs (I know Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, and WX got a ridiculous nerf but the rest of the characters got buffs)

#6: More foods to eat (Like that stuffed Tallbird egg that gives 60 HP. That used to not be in the game. Tallbird eggs used to be solely used for bacon and eggs!)

There's even more I'm not labeling!

Now, I will say there are harder bosses. That is a truth. But the base game is easier. It really really is. I personally know I've gotten better. I know that maybe a bit of it is nostalgia. But there are just more tools available to the players for them to get adjusted to the world quicker

You are right, there ARE tools that can let you get used to the world quicker, but that does not equate to the game itself being easier.

1-4 is convenience and flavor text. Nothing more and nothing less. No one ever discovered the recipe list on their own through trial and error, and very few did more than “hit the enemy until they’re dead” when it comes to guestimating enemies health and your damage. I remember trying to count how many hits it took to kill a tentacle with a spike ONCE.

I died because i was distracted.

my point is that while yes that makes the game “easier” in theory. In practice its actually just a tutorial of sorts that tells players stuff the game should have been telling them from the start. 
 

a tutorial doesnt count as a difficulty adjustment, it just should be included in most games. 
 

and yes, most characters got “major buffs” except, the surprise comes around, most of the “buffs” are combat related. Few characters got actual worthwhile survival based perks

webber got his spiders to be choosable, wolfgang now works out for his buff instead of scarfing food, which is more convenient for those early game players, but lost his speed buff, which only power players cared about. winona can make catapults, wormwood can bloom on command (whoo speed boost) willow has a bear that fights for her, wigfrid sings buffing songd (only in combat) 

man the list of “survival perks” is pretty short. And MOST of the combat perks arent making up the 2-3x health difference. Wendy’s does, she kinda sucks in solo, but healing abigail makes a huge difference.

for reference, and i’m not joking when i say this:

wes in solo, kills deerclops easier than wilson in together. 
 

the game has gotten things to make the game easier for people of all skill levels, yes. But MOSTLY it has been targeted at new players. No experienced player FARMS unless they just feel like farming. Even as wormwood its just not as good as making 10 bee boxes and living off honey nuggets and honey ham. 
 

and lets be as real as real gets:

there is no challenge in any mode of dont starve, past the first year. 
 

yeah i ******* said it. If you can survive winter and summer ONCE, you’re immortal. 
 

you’re not ******* up winter 2 when you ALREADY HAVE the winter clothes.

you’re not messing up summer 2, you have everything you need already.

 

and lets also be real: if you can kill one hound a day, you have infinite food.

if you can kill two: you have infinite healing too pretty much.

if you have honey: you have infinite food health and sanity.

Think for five minutes and realize that if there is any difficulty loss; it doesn’t matter. The best food is honey, once you survive one year you’re immortal, and this point is true for solo and together.

dont starve has gained conveniences.

most of the complaints in this thread were added in a QOL update. Its just that: for quality of life. 

dont starve has never been a hardcore survival game, its just been marketed as one.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I think the biggest penalty that DST has is the loss of time trying to beat or do something than the game being too easy. Generally, DST and it's bosses are quite much harder compared to multiplayer. While singleplayer has permadeath most bosses are generally easier to deal with due to low heath and only most punishing mechanics are fire and death without revival and multiplayer you need to travel long distances to get to something to do something and if you're alone it's a lot more of a struggle without extra prep and backup revival areas incase of mistakes. 

Then again singleplayer is not as polished of a experience and for experienced players it may feel lacking in some to many areas after getting deep into DST (talking about me specifically) I'd say if you're not an enjoyer of characters with highest health and defenses wigfrid you'll feel higher frustration in DST for not making in time to get revives to just instant feeling of defeat once something stupid decides to murder you in singleplayer.

[Mike23Ua]

Why is DST easier than DS? Well aside from the reasons I’ve already listed…

Manniquinns! While Klei did not intend for players to use these in a way beyond decorating your characters for some silly stage play…

You can ACTUALLY set these up (about 12 should do just fine..) in a circular pattern around a boss you intend to fight and place armors and weapons onto them, this allows you to instantly swap out your low durability weapons and armors for the ones on another Manniquinn, making any boss that allows this method, trivial.. 

Prior to Manniquinns you could only throw the armors/weapons on the ground and slowly pick them up one at a time (hell to do on a console controller compared to point and click mouse controls by the way) and while picking them up one at a time.. you stood a chance of being smacked by the boss.

Manniquins allow you to equip the Helmet, Armor and Weapon all in one click by swapping out your current equipped items for what’s on the Manniquinn (auto equipping them to your head/body/hand slots in the process)

[Spino43]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

this allows you to instantly swap out your low durability weapons and armors for the ones on another Manniquinn, making any boss that allows this method, trivial.. 

...why? Don't armors automatically equip to you once they break? Just put them in your inventory. Why put them on the ground?

Granted, weapons don't, but let me introduce to you a weapon that solves this particular problem: hambat.

And what are you gonna do with those low durability items? Seems like a waste of time to manually remove all those items and replace.

And speaking of combat, i find fighting a 2000hp deerclops with 96% damage reduction from just a helmet and log suit SIGNIFICANTLY easier than swapping.

[somethin]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

snip

Man trying to solve a simple problem by building a Rube Goldberg machine when the problem is already capable of solving itself.
Honestly, reading all your post, I think why the game difficulties is not to your liking. You overcomplicate the solutions or over value things, like saying above average tree is a permanent answer to summer in DST. It is definitely not. You basically limit yourself in 1 small patch of the world and guess what, the 'harder' solo ds also have the same thing, being the palm leaf hut. You could argue palm leaf hut area of effect is smaller, but what's stopping you to spam it everywhere just like the giant tree in DST?

As for the main thread question itself, DST and DS to me isn't that different in difficulties, it just pace the difficulties differently.
Solo DS is front loaded, because you have little info about many things, less qol and resource is *arguably* more limited. (not shipwrecked though. jellyfish are literally sea butterfies)
But, if you can comfortably finished a year, you're basically immortal.

DST is easier in the start, what with all the qol and convenience they add, but the end game content like raid boss are waaay harder than anything available in solo ds.

[D_Good_Fellow]

18 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

and lets be as real as real gets:

there is no challenge in any mode of dont starve, past the first year. 

yeah i ******* said it. If you can survive winter and summer ONCE, you’re immortal. 

you’re not ******* up winter 2 when you ALREADY HAVE the winter clothes.

you’re not messing up summer 2, you have everything you need already.

and lets also be real: if you can kill one hound a day, you have infinite food.

if you can kill two: you have infinite healing too pretty much.

if you have honey: you have infinite food health and sanity.

Think for five minutes and realize that if there is any difficulty loss; it doesn’t matter. The best food is honey, once you survive one year you’re immortal, and this point is true for solo and together.

There are challenges past the first year, it's just that staying alive in and of itself isn't the challenge at that point. Surviving winter, surviving summer, and acquiring food are not meant to be the main challenges in year 2+, they're meant to be supplemental factors in the other tasks you are trying to accomplish. That's why the game has stuff like caves, ocean, rifts, and various bosses.

You're expected to do more than "not die at base camp" once you've been playing for 60+ hours, so using how easy it is to do that as the benchmark for difficulty is silly.

 

[gamehun20]

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You can ACTUALLY set these up (about 12 should do just fine..) in a circular pattern around a boss you intend to fight and place armors and weapons onto them, this allows you to instantly swap out your low durability weapons and armors for the ones on another Mannequin, making any boss that allows this method, trivial.. 

Biggest waste of resources i have ever seen

[Falkenpelz]

There's no ghosting in DS. If you dead, you dead. You can't haunt a touchstone, amulet or portal. To revive, you need to activate the touchstone beforehand, you need to wear the amulet while you die and effigies drain your max health with no booster shots to undo it. Also, DST has wayyy better base mechanics. The DS DLCs have glitches that can permanently remove unreplaceble items such as the eyebone. Thermal stones are pretty meh and you actually need to wear clothing. Aaand, worst of all, when you press the attack key, you can't stop the action anymore by pressing a directional key. If you see last second, that you will walk right into an attack, welp, there's no turning back, you can't force your character to turn and not attack, you are locked to the action until it's done.

[cropo]

16 minutes ago, Falkenpelz said:

There's no ghosting in DS. If you dead, you dead

Water of Life is pretty easy to renew and can be planted which turns it into a meat effigy. You can bundle wrap it and stock up on a few. They full-heal health, hunger, and sanity, and you can just plop one down before you face a challenge to revive yourself anywhere you want. You don't even have to kill pugalisk for it, you can nab it and run like hell.

 

19 minutes ago, Falkenpelz said:

Aaand, worst of all, when you press the attack key, you can't stop the action anymore by pressing a directional key.

The upside to this is you don't have to near-hit or even approach a mob to command your followers to attack it. Simply initiating the attack where your character starts running towards the target instructs all friendlies to attack. 

[mykenception]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:36 AM, RoughCactus69 said:

#5: Characters themselves getting major buffs (I know Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, and WX got a ridiculous nerf but the rest of the characters got buffs)

What? Wicker got nerfed? even when her books pretty much infinitely repair with the bookcase? even have books that literally force full moon, turn rain on and off, summon light for whatever your needs and much more and yet because her horticulture book got nerfed is what made it bad now?

[RoughCactus69]

1 hour ago, mykenception said:

What? Wicker got nerfed? even when her books pretty much infinitely repair with the bookcase? even have books that literally force full moon, turn rain on and off, summon light for whatever your needs and much more and yet because her horticulture book got nerfed is what made it bad now?

In my opinion yes it's a nerf. Not a big nerf like I said but it is a nerf. I mean, she had a book that could grow absolutely EVERYTHING on screen with one use. That in it's own right is extremely powerful.

[_zwb]

5 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

In my opinion yes it's a nerf. Not a big nerf like I said but it is a nerf. I mean, she had a book that could grow absolutely EVERYTHING on screen with one use. That in it's own right is extremely powerful.

If you need food just use the new fish book

[Scrimbles]

On 7/14/2023 at 4:11 PM, SpoonyBardIV said:

I’ll preface this by clarifying that I play DST solo, which could definitely affect my experience.

I frequently see people claim that DST is “much easier” than DS. This has always confused me. I have over 1000 hours in both DS and DST, and I find the exact opposite to be true. DST is the game I play if I want a real challenge, and I play DS if I’m in the mood for a more relaxed experience.

There are several aspects of the original game that I believe make the experience much easier. There are items that are so OP they’re borderline broken. Infinite, free light with lamp posts, withered elephant cacti that act as invincible walls, a 12-slot backpack that nullifies all damage, a shadow sword that doesn’t drain sanity and is much cheaper to obtain… the list goes on. On top of this, plenty of rare items are laughably easy to obtain compared to DST. Simply sitting in the ruins with a bush hat will get you several stacks of nightmare fuel. Twigs can be used to obtain as many as three purple gems from the end’s well. Resetting the ruins was as simple as using a teleportato in a secondary world. Thulecite suits and crowns, the strongest armour in the game, can be obtained by killing the easiest boss in SW as early as day 2. Mobs and Bosses have much less HP. The ruins are basically a joke, because the clockworks die in three hits. Not to mention the fact that you never need to pass through the splumonkeys to access the important sections, eliminating the biggest danger of the ruins entirely. Armour has better durability, and it stacks. Equip two pieces of armour, and damage becomes completely trivial. There is also no endgame bosses or challenges in DS. Once you survive the first year, it’s simply a repeat of the same seasonal bosses over and over. SW and Hamlet don’t even have seasonal bosses for most of their seasons. There’s nothing equivalent to the Atrium, Fuelweaver, Celestial Champion, etc.. The closest thing is the Ancient Guardian, but in DS it’s nothing but a 2500 HP tank and spank.

So what I’m wondering is, why do so many players feel like DST is the easier game? IMO it’s the opposite.

They removed threats like heat in caves, Dragonfly as a seasonal giant, Gmoose as a threat that lands near your base, they made farming give more food, they added more accessible food in general, they removed things like farm crops not growing in winter alongside things like Stonefruit and Banana bushes, they made every single character in the game more powerful in their refreshes with ZERO consideration for balancing their downsides, and now they are going around for a second wave of objective buffs to every single character.

In many ways the game is easier, the problem is that almost nothing has been done to make it any harder in the games entire update history, fans of the classic difficulty have almost never been serviced.

[Mike23Ua]

19 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

They removed threats like heat in caves, Dragonfly as a seasonal giant, Gmoose as a threat that lands near your base, they made farming give more food, they added more accessible food in general, they removed things like farm crops not growing in winter alongside things like Stonefruit and Banana bushes, they made every single character in the game more powerful in their refreshes with ZERO consideration for balancing their downsides, and now they are going around for a second wave of objective buffs to every single character.

In many ways the game is easier, the problem is that almost nothing has been done to make it any harder in the games entire update history, fans of the classic difficulty have almost never been serviced.

I’m gonna play devils advocate here and ask what if Klei added a 6th Game Mode setting which actually was more difficult, such as reinstating character downsides (maybe even more harsh ones at that)

The Wendy Main in me notices how when Wendy Dismisses Abigail she rips the flower up into petals, so the “Uncompromising” part of me would like to see Wendy need to craft a brand new Abby flower each time she rips the old one apart.

Players who want downsides can play in a mode that has them in full-effect, while the rest of the game can become casual as all hell.

Also: if such a mode was to be added, logic would imply that these new settings/game behaviors would be toggle-able within world Gen settings.

So instead of having “Uncompromising Mode” which may have annoying features not everyone is on board with- we would be able to pick & choose what parts of the game we actively want challenging us.

Uncompromising Mode being an actual Klei offical dedicated game mode of course, which wouldn’t be affiliated with the PC mod (unless they had helped in developing the new mode?)

Anyway point is: We should have more options on how we play & enjoy the game, and shouldn’t have to rely on Mods for that experience.

[Dextops]

4 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

they made farming give more food, they added more accessible food in general, they removed things like farm crops not growing in winter alongside things like Stonefruit and Banana bushes

They made farming an actual viable option  of getting food and they barely made food more accessible. The og food sources are still the best food sources there are. Stone fruit and banana bushes require you to go seafaring to find them so it’s something that takes an investment and it’s not like getting food in winter was a trouble at all. I don’t get who you’re referring to because experienced players aren’t effected at all when it comes to food at winter because the same old methods still work today and new players aren’t gonna be able to learn farming or obtain stone fruit or banana bushes.

[D_Good_Fellow]

50 minutes ago, Dextops said:

They made farming an actual viable option  of getting food and they barely made food more accessible. The og food sources are still the best food sources there are. Stone fruit and banana bushes require you to go seafaring to find them so it’s something that takes an investment and it’s not like getting food in winter was a trouble at all. I don’t get who you’re referring to because experienced players aren’t effected at all when it comes to food at winter because the same old methods still work today and new players aren’t gonna be able to learn farming or obtain stone fruit or banana bushes.

Farming is actually a great example of a place where DST made it easier for experienced players and harder for new players.

Classic DS farms are extremely straightforward. You craft them like you craft anything else in the game, and you put items into it to get items out several days later. Anyone playing the game could intuitively figure out through gameplay alone. 

Post-RWYS DST farms can make the overall game much easier with the many benefits they provide, but are significantly harder to learn and master than the old method. It's not too overly complicated imo, but unlike DS classic I did have to look up a few walkthroughs to figure it out. So the effort/payout rate arguably makes the new system harder for those new to the game but easier for more experienced players.

[cropo]

6 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

Dragonfly as a seasonal giant

Because she was laughably easy to deal with and is a much better fight now. She was boring as hell in singleplayer. Her drops are immune to gunpowder, so you can panflute her and blow her up in a second and still get her drops where other bosses punish you for overuse of gunpowder. You can also just get some obsidian armor from Shipwrecked, as it has the same fire immunity as the scale mail, and facetank her. Her enrage is no threat, she dies too fast with her low HP, she will never withstand you just standing there and holding the attack button with some glommer goops.

 

6 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

Gmoose as a threat that lands near your base

Doesn't even land, just teleports into existence at a single growl. MGoose is the laziest boss ever designed in the game. In DST, multiple of them spawn and you slaughter them like cattle, but you actually have to deal with their babies which actually are somewhat involved in fighting. Much harder in DST, was never a problem in Singleplayer.

 

6 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

They removed threats like heat in caves

So people would actually have a reason to explore them and not just wait till autumn to explore them, that's just adding more options.  No one is going to be going to the caves in summer unless they really want the game to throw a wrench at them. In DS you either waited till autumn, or you smuggled in a bunch of Obsidian spears from Shipwrecked and explored in Winter so the spear could warm you up while you fought. It does 102 damage at max charge which is very easy to maintain in the ruins, completely dominating any form of threat with Singleplayer health values. It also provides light when charged through combat, it is a weaponized thermal stone. 

6 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

they made every single character in the game more powerful in their refreshes with ZERO consideration for balancing their downsides

Because they were garbage in singleplayer

. Willow was literally only good for exploiting bugs and glitches with fire farms. Her playstyle is counterintuitive when you are expected to go insane various times in order to get nightmare fuel. Having her light fires randomly was stupid.

  Wendy had virtually no use and had a huge damage downside with nothing to compensate. 

Wicker, WX, and Wolfgang were the undisputed champions of the game.

Webber was who you played if you wanted an easymode.

Walani is a worse Wilson.

Warly is more frustrating to play than Wes with no reason to pick other than wanting a challenge, being able to carry a crockpot is useless when all of his unique recipies are just not worth making and he can't slam meatballs. I mean consider this for a moment, as Wes you can spam meatballs all day and never go hungry, Warly can't. Don't you see a problem here?

Woodlegs boat was entirely outclassed by all but the rafts and his only real perk was being able to generate chests with his hat for boards. 

Wilbur is just as counterintuitive as Willow as his main perk does not apply when sailing, and his base speed is lower than average. That doesn't make any damn sense! On RoG where his ability is actually useful, the monkey enemies in the game are hostile towards him. 

Wormwoods sole uses were being a living log factory and planting seeds in the ground, everything else he has is a gimmicky mess that is far worse than anything any other character can have. Planting seeds on the ground is not worth the inability to heal through traditional methods. Most players picking him would never even make it to Lush season for the hay fever immunity, and experienced players have plenty of time to farm nettles to prevent it anyway.

Wagstaff has one of the most annoying downsides ever and other than his Thumper, a swap-character structure he can make, he offers nothing of lasting value as a character. His telebrella has an extremely limited range and can mess up in the rain. He's just not worth picking.

Woodie was counterinuitive as well and clunky to play as. A character meant for chopping trees gets punished for chopping trees and is more useful as a free walking cane and life-giving amulet. He is the Weremoose on steroids with a lot less QoL.

Wheeler is overpowered and turns the game into a Souls-Like with her I-frames. She even has a souped up version of Walters slingshot, able to slaughter threats for very cheap with the singleplayer health values. She even gets a movement speed bonus quite often, there's pretty much no downside to her at all.

Wilba is literally an upgraded Woodie, with better QoL on her transformation. It can be manipulated more easily, prolonged, has passive regen and speed boost and high damage without any use of weapon durability. Can mine and chop, and she even comes packed with a special tool to prevent it if you want. She even gets free gifts from pigs in Hamlet, she's all perks and very little downside.

 

That leaves, what, Wigfrid? Wigfrid is the only character to have a truly balanced upside and downside since DS ever existed. Every other character has stupid gimmicks that are only useful for exploiting glitches, poorly thought out perks that aren't helpful, or are insanely broken.

 

6 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

fans of the classic difficulty have almost never been serviced.

The game has never truly achieved this mythical level of difficulty everyone touts. Ever since the Beta, players have been dominating the game. So much so that Klei often made updates specifically to counter strategies only to have them counter back.  The only form of difficulty the game has EVER had was obfuscating game mechanics to new players so they have to figure things out. Kevin Forbes wanted community discovery to motivate players to progress, well we've discovered and shared everything and the man behind the curtain has been revealed, the game was never really that hard.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

Willow was literally only good for exploiting bugs and glitches with fire farms. Her playstyle is counterintuitive when you are expected to go insane various times in order to get nightmare fuel. Having her light fires randomly was stupid.

She also had inventory burning which was useful.

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

Wendy had virtually no use and had a huge damage downside with nothing to compensate. 

She was still a horde blender and very popular because of it the only thing she really needed was the ability to control abgial.

 

8 minutes ago, cropo said:

Woodlegs boat was entirely outclassed by all but the rafts and his only real perk was being able to generate chests with his hat for boards. 

This isn't true his cannons were great fun.

10 minutes ago, cropo said:

Wilba is literally an upgraded Woodie, with better QoL on her transformation. It can be manipulated more easily, prolonged, has passive regen and speed boost and high damage without any use of weapon durability. Can mine and chop, and she even comes packed with a special tool to prevent it if you want. She even gets free gifts from pigs in Hamlet, she's all perks and very little downside.

This is extremely debatable consider each had their own advantages to their wereforms.