wormwood Wormwood has too many underwhelming “filler” skills. Entire Farmhand branch is pointless. Final skill spread feels bad.

[Ohan]

Figuring out a skilltree spread for Wormwood feels so bad right now in my opinion despite there being some really fun and cool skills. (Mostly just moon shroom and lunar guardian..)

The problem is that you are forced to pick some incredibly lame and pointless skills to actually get to what you want. 

It begins with the two starter skills. Seed Sleuth and Butterfly Friend feel so unimpactful that they shouldnt be skills but part of his base kit if at all. 

The Plant Crafting seems like something for megabasers to switch to Wormwood and craft berrybushes and not much else. The world is chock-full of saplings and berrybushes and after a few years u get enough lureplant bulbs to use them as firepit fuel.. none of these skills have any meaningful gameplay impact. Monkeytail crafting is the least pointless one but still very meh. 

The entire Farmhand branch is straight up pointless. Tending range is a meaningless stat to boost. U can just run across ur fields instead. Bee Kind is literally anti-synergistic with his bramble crafts. Killer bee hives are great for farming stingers for the Husk and Trap. Not spawning bees from wasphives unless u attack the hive itself is a direct counter to this.

Flytrap is… extremely puzzling. Fruitflies dont instantly blow up ur plants for u to need to draw their aggro.. any harm they do is undone by Blooming. I dont understand why this skill exists and is so far up the branch. 

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All of this adds up to a final skill spread that is littered with pointless skill point investments that just feel bad. Moonshroom Clouds and Lunar Guardian I & II are without a doubt the most exciting skills. But because Lunar Guardian has no third option you are forced to spend your last couple skill points on really pointless things. take a look: 

After being forced to pick Poor Sap to get to Lunar guardian i am left with two skill points but no fun, meaningful skill to spend it on. This feels terrible.

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Suggestions: 

A third Lunar Guardian skill would make the final skill spread so much more satisfying. 

• Brightshade helmet, staff and bomb and the Enlightened Crown for example are still gear that lunar guardian Wormwood could have special interactions with. 
• Being immune to Lunar Grazer sleep would also be a fitting perk in this tree. And lower aggro range with Brightshades. (Like WX and clockworks)

Mushroom Mastery could also decrease the living log requirement of the planters or make each fertilization with a log more efficient (more harvests.

• It would be awesome if wormwood could plant moon shrooms in shroom planters. 
• Currently using a spore or using a cap yields identical results. would be nice if spores gave even more like 8, to reward the effort.

The entire farmhand branch really should be reworked. There are other farming stats that are way more useful than tending range like: 

• Faster growth rate for plants tended by Wormwood
  • This can be applied to bushses too. 
• Faster picking animation for farmplants. 
  • Desperately needed considering Wild plantings require more time spent picking to get the same amount of produce as giants. 
• Easier time growing giants
  • Example: seeds planted by Wormwood start with negative stress. 

As many of the Plant Crafting skills as possible should be grouped into 1 skill

• So space can be created for skills that actually benefit Wormwood. 

As for completely new skills; i was really hoping for stuff that involves his Bramble Crafts. It feels weird for none of his skills to adress these crafts. The same thing goes for Compost Wrap and his Living Log craft

• Automatically resetting Bramble Traps would be awesome
• A new kind of trap or boosting the trap and husk with Moonglass for slightly more damage and # of uses on the trap for example. 
  • More interactions with Lunar materials/content leading up to Cultivator and Guardian like the moonshroom skill would be incredible
  • Moonglass bramble walls or a unique craft made with brightshade husks, etc.

[acidicCitrus]

everythign in this feedback is so perfect.....klei please PLEASE you gotta tweak him some more like this

DO IT FOR US WORMWOOD ENJOYERS....PLEASE

[Baark0]

You are able to invest in either carrat and both lunar guardian or lunar guardian 1, carrat and either saladmander or lightbug, not sure how useful these are, but it's cool that you can put points into both ultimate branches

[xhyom]

18 minutes ago, Ohan said:

The entire farmhand branch really should be reworked. There are other farming stats that are way more useful than tending range like: 

• Faster growth rate for plants tended by Wormwood
  • This can be applied to bushses too. 
• Faster picking animation for farmplants. 
  • Desperately needed considering Wild plantings require more time spend picking to get the same amount of produce than giants. 
• Easier time growing giants
  • Example: seeds planted by Wormwood start with negative stress. 

This make so much more sense, 3 points just to increase the size of something that you can do by just walking is stupid, having crops growth perks synergizes with his perk to create followers too.

[_zwb]

26 minutes ago, Ohan said:

• Crafting lureplants without leafy meat would also be much more impactful. cuz u could get it before spring.

You can craft carrats and murder them for leafy meat, essentially turning carrots into lureplants

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, Baark0 said:

You are able to invest in either carrat and both lunar guardian or lunar guardian 1, carrat and either saladmander or lightbug,

Yeah im aware, i tried that out too initially. But: 

2 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

not sure how useful these are

They arent sadly..  carrat seems like a joke skill like many of his skills unfortunately. Lightbug and saladmander are neat but not enough to give up Lunar Guardian 2. 

Its neat that he can tap into both “ultimate” branches but in practice its not very impactful which probably is why he can do it..  And u would have choose more useless skills on the Cultivator side to unlock the useless carrat..

5 minutes ago, xhyom said:

This make so much more sense, 3 points just to increase the size of something that you can do by just walking is stupid, having crops growth perks synergizes with his perk to create followers too.

Exactly! Faster growth rate and picking animation would synergy incredibly well with Wild plants and the Cultivator pets.

5 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You can craft carrats and murder them for leafy meat, essentially turning carrots into lureplants

Omg! Riiight i knew carrats dropped leafy meats but i didnt connect the dots haha, thats neat actually! I still dont think id pick up all the plant crafting skills just to get a lureplant in the first autumn though.

 

i really believe most if not all the plant crafting skills should be merged into 1 they really are not worth it on their own. Grass tufts and the pointy bush could be added to this too. 

• Advanced separate plant crafting skills could then be:
  • sea weed, strone fruit, lure plant, etc. 

[Mysterious box]

27 minutes ago, Ohan said:

The Plant Crafting seems like something for megabasers to switch to Wormwood and craft berrybushes and not much else. The world is chock-full of saplings and berrybushes and after a few years u get enough lureplant bulbs to use them as firepit fuel.. none of these skills have any meaningful gameplay impact. Monkeytail crafting is the least pointless one but still very meh. 

Honestly this tab here was the thing that rubbed me the wrong way about Wormwood's skill tree but I didn't want to open up that can of worms with so many already ripped open. I don't think he should be able to craft production plants at all though and that lure plants he crafts himself should give him a additional interaction like his crafted carrats.

 

31 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Crafting lureplants without leafy meat would also be much more impactful. cuz u could get it before spring.

Leafy meat is always around at sea but I don't see a issue with removing it from the craft either.

I more or less completely agree with your post really.

I feel like they should have leaned more into bringing plants to life with general purpose non combat functions as well as improving his overall ability to raise plants.

[Fill-Lips]

I don't mind lureplants costing leafy meat, if your world started with grass geckos, then they will likely die to tallbirds or meteors, so that's easy leafy meat.

AoE tending is a little underwhelming and I would like the killer bee passive to give you the ability to 'trigger' hives as well, as an alternate action so the hive doesn't get hurt from a punch or spear. (Also give this action to regular bee hives too.)

Finaaaally, Wormwood can make monkeytails but not grass tufts or grass geckos? Whaaaaaaat?

[Ohan]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Leafy meat is always around at sea

yeah i had a momentary brainfart and forgot about other sources of leafy meat. But considering u'd have to find these other sources, craft the bulb, and do anything meaningful with it before winter it actually doesnt make that big of a difference.. id rather wait till spring and do much more important things in the first autumn. 

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think he should be able to craft production plants at all though and that lure plants he crafts himself should give him a additional interaction like his crafted carrats.

Yeah i dont care for these skills either. Thats why i think if they're staying they should all be grouped into 1 skill. (grass tuft, berrybushes (all 3), saplings) The more interesting plants could then have separate skills. 

And exactly, not getting an additonal benefit from lureplants seems lame. He should be able to open up the bulb's inventory and take stuff out of it! 

[Habakkuk]

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

The Plant Crafting seems like something for megabasers to switch to Wormwood and craft berrybushes and not much else. The world is chock-full of saplings and berrybushes and after a few years u get enough lureplant bulbs to use them as firepit fuel.. none of these skills have any meaningful gameplay impact. Monkeytail crafting is the least pointless one but still very meh. 

 

I agree about the monkeytail, but please let us megabasers have a way to get more berries without creating new worlds. This is something that a lot of megabasers asked for years! 

It is essential for decoration purposes and as Brightshade farms already exists we don't have to worrie about it in our bushes.  We actually need be able to get more of all kinds of bushes not only those. There is no problem to me if it is a late game stuff.

[HowlVoid]

This is perfect, thank you Ohan.

[NNOUS]

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Seed Sleuth and Butterfly Friend feel so unimpactful that they shouldnt be skills but part of his base kit if at all.

Absolutly agree. its a waste of points. because he is a plant boy.

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Brightshade helmet, staff and bomb and the Enlightened Crown for example are still gear that lunar guardian Wormwood could have special interactions with. 

i think that would be a tier III skill to be able to plant brightshade bomb in the dirt like a armed brightshade mine. 

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

• It would be awesome if wormwood could plant moon shrooms in shroom planters. 
• Currently using a spore or using a cap yields identical results. would be nice if spores gave even more like 8, to reward the effort.

Abusolutly agree.

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Crafting saplings, berry bushes (all 3), grass tufts could be merged into 1 skill.

Yes. i agree with this part. but I am not sure with stone fruit tho since they have already a inert ablity to reproduce. its suppose to be for those cant not be replicated normaly.

5 hours ago, Ohan said:

More interactions with Lunar materials/content

there can be also unique craft for wormwood. idea like brightshade husk busket as a hand slot smol backpack item (4 slot?)  that can put only fresh vegitables inside.

[TripleBonk]

I feel like there should also be some kind of shadow affinity for the character. I get that he's from the moon and all of that, but it kind of takes away the choice of picking a team to join.

I think, if anything, a shadow affinity could increase wormwood's husk damage/aoe, make living logs take less health to craft, or even allow for wormwood to get buffs in the caves, like how acid rain makes him bloom. Perhaps the ability to plant mushtrees or craft glowberries? I'm just spit-balling, but I genuinely think that having a character only have benefits on one side of the battle takes away from the update as a whole. And we all know that Maxwell will likely only have shadow affinities, which only perpetuates the unfortunate fact that these characters and their abilities are more tied to a canon story than the wacky, incredibly fun variety that DST offers its players. If they're going to make a triumphant wormwood or moonbound maxwell, let me play as those characters with perks that benefit the side I want to play on. Having the character choose the side for me just isn't an enjoyable experience.

[Ardyn]

5 hours ago, TripleBonk said:

I feel like there should also be some kind of shadow affinity for the character. I get that he's from the moon and all of that, but it kind of takes away the choice of picking a team to join.

I think, if anything, a shadow affinity could increase wormwood's husk damage/aoe, make living logs take less health to craft, or even allow for wormwood to get buffs in the caves, like how acid rain makes him bloom. Perhaps the ability to plant mushtrees or craft glowberries? I'm just spit-balling, but I genuinely think that having a character only have benefits on one side of the battle takes away from the update as a whole. And we all know that Maxwell will likely only have shadow affinities, which only perpetuates the unfortunate fact that these characters and their abilities are more tied to a canon story than the wacky, incredibly fun variety that DST offers its players. If they're going to make a triumphant wormwood or moonbound maxwell, let me play as those characters with perks that benefit the side I want to play on. Having the character choose the side for me just isn't an enjoyable experience.

You almost said what I dare not say. I really enjoy playing a wormwood who enjoys fighting, and the equipment in the ruin is crucial to me during this process - and it perfectly matches the skills of wormwood. Wormwood also happens to be able to easily defeat the ancient fuelweaver. However, now Wormwood can only choose the Lunar Alliance, which is a very uncomfortable thing for me. If Wormwood could serve as a seeker for the moon, exploring the essence of shadow magic to gain more abilities related to shadows - this would be interesting and reasonable from a lore perspective, I guess.

[TripleBonk]

8 hours ago, Ardyn said:

You almost said what I dare not say. I really enjoy playing a wormwood who enjoys fighting, and the equipment in the ruin is crucial to me during this process - and it perfectly matches the skills of wormwood. Wormwood also happens to be able to easily defeat the ancient fuelweaver. However, now Wormwood can only choose the Lunar Alliance, which is a very uncomfortable thing for me. If Wormwood could serve as a seeker for the moon, exploring the essence of shadow magic to gain more abilities related to shadows - this would be interesting and reasonable from a lore perspective, I guess.

Exactly! A survival game's canon should have the ability to act separately from how players play the game. The way the players play the character determines how the character functions in a setting. If I mainly focus around gardening and mass-producing shadow equipment for a team, I should be allowed to align myself with the shadow side and receive buffs, lore be damned. And sure, it would be better if klei added some sort of little detail about being a scout or spy or something, but in all honesty, give the players a choice for how the character's path can be played while rooting one specific path of his in canon. It's like a real RPG. There are often many choices that bend the story to your whim, but there can also be one singular, canon path in-universe.

[Antynomity]

I will put you into my Portable Crockpot for being too weak if Klei doesn't change these skills!

[goblinball]

22 hours ago, Ohan said:

and after a few years u get enough lureplant bulbs to use them as firepit fue

I almost always use lureplants as a secondary source of food, I wouldn’t mind being able to amass my lureplant collection quicker I think the lureplant craft is fine 

[webberer]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:12 PM, Ohan said:

It would be awesome if wormwood could plant moon shrooms in shroom planters. 

Totally agreed, if wormwood could plant moon shrooms, he would also need to plant other mushrooms to efficiently make mushroom cakes dishes, which could encourage another farming way—mushroom planters!

omg! I super love your ideas! I can see that you are a real Wormwood main. Klei please take these suggestions into consideration!

[Pedro cc]

there is no need to scrap the range of tending just merge the skills of bigger tending radius to the three perks of blooming and add more skills there. The branch of tending radius is useless, I agree

[Antynomity]

Just copy pasting this here as I don't have the time to write a new comment that says the exact same thing:
All of these except the bee one just need to go
It'd be so much more beneficial if all of these got replaced with skills that improve Wormwood's non-skill related crafts like the bramble trap and husk, as examples:
Bramble husk now protects from 85% of the incoming damage
Bramble husk now has more durability and it's AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps can be rearmed faster

Also one of the blooming skills should allow you to reset the traps automatically when you're blooming. "Bramble traps now reset by contact with your pollen."

[Ohan]

3 minutes ago, Pedro cc said:

merge the skills of bigger tending radius to the three perks of blooming

Yes this could be nice too. I didnt mention the three Blooming perks in my original post but they are very lacklustre. not bad just boring.

And the "capstone" skills of that branch: Petal Production and Shade Plant dont feel like a satisfying reward for getting to the end of that skill branch at all. Compare that to Woodie's wereform capstone skills and the difference is incredibly stark. 

Grouping up as many of the boring blooming skills together would free up a lot of space for worthwhile, exciting skills. 

[Hupo]

Yes, many of the Wormwood's new skills are useless. But Wormwood is strong (maybe) enough. He don't need more powerful skills, or the update will become a new series of Character Refresh.

In fact, I can often see the posts about Willow, Walter, Winona and Woodie. These four characters are not perfect enough and do need some more perks. But other characters just need a little tweaking. So giving them a skill tree with some ordinary skills is a good choice. And those characters who really need perks (for example, Woodie need a skill to live in a world with full moon everyday), Klei give them a new refresh chance by skill tree.

Anyway, I like to play Wormwood. I'd be happy to see the skills become more useful.

[Pedro cc]

17 hours ago, Ohan said:

Petal Production and Shade Plant dont feel like a satisfying reward for getting to the end of that skill branch at all.

These skills may feel underwhelming but they are actually useful for him. The protection is good enough for summer and the petals synergize with Wormwood's need for rot or manure.

I consider these skills to be more meaningful than some of the plant crafts and Ipecaca(despite how bad of a pun is)

[Ohan]

On 7/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Pedro cc said:

The protection is good enough for summer and the petals synergize with Wormwood's need for rot or manure.

Do you by any chance know exactly how much summer insulation it is? Cuz the usefulness of this skill comes down to the number. By default he has 60 when fully blooming iirc. The skill has to be like an extra 120-180 on top for it to be worth it as a capstone skill. 

Or do you maybe know @Arcwell? I think ive seen you post stuff from the code in the past 

i would still prefer skills that are less “invisible” stat boosts and more meaningful noticeable things.

The petal skill is better in this regard. Not exciting but i guess it does save u from needing to gather lightbulbs for manure/rot. 

Ostensibly the syrup is supposed to help with poop gathering too but the petal skill is way better at it so the skill slot is just wasted on syrup.

A joke skill here and there is fine but not when 85% of the tree is a joke. 
 

On 7/9/2023 at 5:09 AM, Pedro cc said:

I consider these skills to be more meaningful than some of the plant crafts and Ipecaca

Yeah ofcourse but thats not a very high bar to pass unfortunately 

[Arcwell]

27 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Do you by any chance know exactly how much summer insulation it is? Cuz the usefulness of this skill comes down to the number. By default he has 60 when fully blooming iirc. The skill has to be like an extra 120-180 on top for it to be worth it as a capstone skill. 

Or do you maybe know @Arcwell? I think ive seen you post stuff from the code in the past 

Shade Plant gives 180 during full bloom. That replaces the initial 60 though, so it's a net gain of 120.

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