My honest opinion about recent updates

[Copyafriend]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 

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Inb4 I get 30+ notifications about how bad of a idea this is.

 

I mean, personally i think its a pretty good idea on the sole merit of being a cohesive plan with a goal: make surviving harder and less brainless. It pretty much supports my OP because its going back and reworking flawed systems. Not everyone is going to agree with your direction, but it’s specific and achievable.

good job

[Mike23Ua]

39 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Absolutely mike.

because deerclops shows up and TRIES to wreck your base.

except yknow, you can just kill him,

people wouldnt complain about a new deerclops either.

or a new seasonal threat.

people arent complaining about a seasonal threat.

wildfires, while annoying, can be combated with ice flingos.

we hate unconfrontable dangers that destroy your base, because dont starve has always allowed you to defend your base.

do not act like dont starve used to smash bases and now doesnt, deerclops and wildfires havent been nerfed at all, but they dont destroy bases. Why? Because you can and always have been able to defend against it.

 

you’re arguing using inherently flawed examples, because those examples support OUR argument of being able to defend our base.

 

i’m sure people would be annoyed if wildfires were introduced today, but they wouldnt fight so hard because while ice flingos are annoying, they’re a complete viable method that works to defend your base.

Huh uh yeah? So were boat canons.. but look how that turned out.

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Huh uh yeah? So were boat canons.. but look how that turned out.

Counterpoint: have you actually usef boat cannons? They’re awful. Unless you have four or more cannons you have to turn an obscene amount to actually be able to hit the monkeys, not to mention actually hitting them being fairly difficult. 
 

cannons arent really a working solution, just a theoretical one.

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Counterpoint: have you actually usef boat cannons? They’re awful. Unless you have four or more cannons you have to turn an obscene amount to actually be able to hit the monkeys, not to mention actually hitting them being fairly difficult. 
 

cannons arent really a working solution, just a theoretical one.

I mean that’s more of a design flaw if anything.. boat canons we’re added to the game to very specifically combat against ocean threats (which we don’t have anymore cause Klei Nerfed them into near non-existence as to not “upset” people’s peaceful fishing trips or pretty boat bases)

This is a Clear cut example of peoples Base/Casual Playstyles getting in the way of the survival content I beg for..

unless they were ONLY added to the game to fight Crab King.. boat canons when fired off in the general direction of invading threats (doesn’t have to hit them.. just hit nearby) would scare them into fleeing away.

In their current state Canons are a bit too expensive to even be worthwhile, but since there’s no actual threats that require using them… it doesn’t matter.

But this is an example of Klei only Half-baking their content plans…

They could’ve had an area of land out at sea somewhere such as “Charlie’s Fortress” which was surrounded around all edges of the island by impenetrable walls, unless the player blasts them with a Boat Canon..

They could’ve made Some Ocean Resources that Require blasting with a boat canon, such as maybe a Stone Palm Tree that can’t be Mined or Chopped but grew food in its unreachable tree branches, you could’ve aimed the cannons at these trees to blast Idk.. Obsidian/Thelucite Coconuts out of them something..

Instead we have new weapons and resources but very very few actual uses for them which can apply to all content updates so far.

All I’m saying is if this is supposed to be Klei’s quote “End Game” 

Make it all make sense!

 

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean that’s more of a design flaw if anything.. boat canons we’re added to the game to very specifically combat against ocean threats (which we don’t have anymore cause Klei Nerfed them into near non-existence as to not “upset” people’s peaceful fishing trips or pretty boat bases)

This is a Clear cut example of peoples Base/Casual Playstyles getting in the way of the survival content I beg for..

unless they were ONLY added to the game to fight Crab King.. boat canons when fired off in the general direction of invading threats (doesn’t have to hit them.. just hit nearby) would scare them into fleeing away.

In their current state Canons are a bit too expensive to even be worthwhile, but since there’s no actual threats that require using them… it doesn’t matter.

But this is an example of Klei only Half-baking their content plans…

They could’ve had an area of land out at sea somewhere such as “Charlie’s Fortress” which was surrounded around all edges of the island by impenetrable walls, unless the player blasts them with a Boat Canon..

They could’ve made Some Ocean Resources that Require blasting with a boat canon, such as maybe a Stone Palm Tree that can’t be Mined or Chopped but grew food in its unreachable tree branches, you could’ve aimed the cannons at these trees to blast Idk.. Obsidian/Thelucite Coconuts out of them something..

Instead we have new weapons and resources but very very few actual uses for them which can apply to all content updates so far.

All I’m saying is if this is supposed to be Klei’s quote “End Game” 

Make it all make sense!

 

I mean

all thats cool, id love if it was added (as long as the cannon was updated to reflect this new importance)

also:

completely irrelevant to the discussion we WERE having.

we were talking about base destruction, and you were talking about the fact that dont starve used to smash player bases without warning and equating it to the new cave ins and I’m specifically saying, when did this happen. The best example i remember comes from shipwrecked floods being basically unstoppable if you werent paying 100% attention.

but i cant think of a single time where your base was destroyed and you never had a chance to defend it.

so your cool anecdote about potential sea content aside completely:

when did this happen

Just now, Copyafriend said:

I mean

all thats cool, id love if it was added (as long as the cannon was updated to reflect this new importance)

also:

completely irrelevant to the discussion we WERE having.

we were talking about base destruction, and you were talking about the fact that dont starve used to smash player bases without warning and equating it to the new cave ins and I’m specifically saying, when did this happen. The best example i remember comes from shipwrecked floods being basically unstoppable if you werent paying 100% attention.

but i cant think of a single time where your base was destroyed and you never had a chance to defend it.

so your cool anecdote about potential sea content aside completely:

when did this happen

Or failing that, when was there a survival element like the powder monkeys where you were put in an area where you were completely unable to run away and pitted against 6-8 enemies that swarm you

[Mike23Ua]

Wait since when was anyone talking about base destruction? If I want to argue THAT point I’ll discuss the Twins of Terror Phase 2.. whom you can just “Avoid” fighting once they get to Phase 2 and then Resummon them again on some random unlucky player in the server rather they are or are not in their base.. ToT won’t care, and their angry dash will absolutely wreck your base up.

Are we going to get a patch where Terrarium only spawns on the player who summons it? Or only activates in a specific spot like Moonstone event?

I doubt it’s going to get any changes.. and still remains to be an unpreventable (& for noobs unexpected) base destroying threat.

My posts all simply stated that Instead of content politely going out of its way to avoid the player and their base- DS was not designed like that in the slightest bit.

Klei added a winter, klei added a spring, Klei added a summer, Klei added plugged sinkholes that when busted open allowed bats to pour out into your world every night.. When your base went up in a blazing inferno you had to find a way to overcome and counter that.

But in its current state: Klei can’t even add the counter… because people complain about testing the waters of the “Overcome”

Is boulders falling on your base fair? No.. but I guarantee you that just like Summer and Wildfires Klei had plans for it.

Wildfires may be hated by most mega-Basers, but there’s still contraptions you can craft to deal with them, Ice Flingos, shady canopy tree the canopy in particular wasn’t added until just recently even though wildfires have existed for years.

Hopefully Klei has an overall plan, we just need to trust in it.

[Popian]

20 hours ago, Lennard said:

What surprises me is how much stuff from the base game and RoG still remains unchanged. Some things are fine as they are, but we still have the same set of mainland surface biomes as we did in RoG, and the things to find in the biomes that do exist remain mostly the exact same as RoG. Only difference is that we got two variants of the desert. Meanwhile they added tons of stuff to the caves and the sea since the launch of DST. As if there's more player activity there rather than in the surface mainland...

With the switches and "conscious alternative action" route they are taking it looks like they want to keep the RoG core intact while accommodating multiplayer. This is not something new, as it was like that with Maxwell's Door and caves.

Rifts are the current "switch" they are working on, but there are other things they can do after like islands with local weather effects or a Together (default) vs. Classic worldgen option. Would it pay off?

Edit: Adding to caves would also work too, and the Grotto shows that they are open to doing so.

[MagicalStorm]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

 

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Inb4 I get 30+ notifications about how bad of a idea this is.

 

This actually sounds fun! Would be quite controversial for the most part yes, but still it sounds really interesting! Thank you two for your input on my silly question

[GelatinousCube]

7 hours ago, Ulisesvolador said:

He's just making opinions and suggestions from his experience as a console player, which is different from the experience of a PC player. If you don't agree with them, explain politely why they can't fit/work in DST or ignore and move on.

I'm on console too, that isn't what is happening here at all.

[Uedo]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Since for some reason you seem to want to bash me, no I haven’t fought CC or CK and more importantly I don’t actually Plan to until I can get 2-3 other friends to help me with those Multiplayer focused boss fights..

But let me see if I can’t get you to see things from my perspective, let’s pretend you just started playing DS.. back in 2013- let’s pretend you played before there was EVER such thing as a “Winter Season” or a not so optional “Deerclops” and let’s pretend that you built a massive beautiful mega-base that your happy and proud of because you know how everything in the game works, you’ve done everything, all that’s left to do is build a mega base- but then.. 

Winter update comes out, new World wide global challenges present itself, Deerclops now shows up without an invitation to crash your castle. GG Right?

Okay you overcome Winter, learn to adapt.. rebuild your mega base- Summer gets added..

Your base now goes up in a blazing inferno and a angry flying bug wants you dead.

In both cases: Your precious base gets destroyed thanks to new update adding new content to directly challenge YOU and Your ability to survive.

When it comes to DST- NOTHING except maybe Varglets and Spider Queens with Medic Spiders.. challenge you to survive- because UNLIKE Solo DS

Klei is afraid of adding DSTs “Winter & Summer”

Do you see what I’m saying now?  Or are you going to still sit there and belittle and discredit my view point because I DONT fight some completely 125% optional Boss??

No bashing. In response to the above; I'd certainly have issues for a while if that happened. I did have those issues for a long time before i felt comfortable dealing with them. Then I adapted, and now some of those threats are minimal. It's ok to struggle with stuff - It honestly took me years before I could survive a full DST year comfortably (not kidding), but you learn methods of dealing with what comes and it becomes less bothersome. 

[00petar00]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

1. I would remove hambats and football helmets
2. Add a new tier to silk called refined silk that only drops from depth dwellers, sea striders, and a new tier to webber's beard when shaved.
3. Refined silk would now be required to make umbrellas, raincoats, and rain hats possibly more
4. Eyebrella removed and replaced with a new deerclopes drop(I know this is probably the most controversial but it'd simply undermine the changes listed above)
5. The new shadow umbrella becomes the old eyebrella attaching itself to your head 
6. Move the dark sword and night armor to the completed psuedoscience station
7. Add a new ocean weapon.
8. Weaken the overall value of crockpot dishes that don't involve ingredients from the ocean, caves, or farm plots while raising the lower values of the ones that do.
9. Ease the requirements a bit for farming a bit more but remove crop combo farming.
10. Add a crockpot dishes for each crop that doesn't have one.
11. Make crops that don't thrive in winter stop growing.
12. Have seasons effect the spawns and behaviors of more mobs such as if they respawn, how often, and how aggressive they are.
13. Bundling wraps now spoil food at 25% of their normal rate but you can see inside them at all times.

 

If klei decided to follow your suggestion of purely survival updates and nerfs, I wouldn't be able to continue playing DST in the same capacity. I wouldn't quit playing completely but I don't think I would ever attempt to megabase again and that would mean I wouldn't play nearly as much.

Also, you are forgetting that most of the money klei makes is from skins and megabasers are the only ones that want to have as many as possible.

Hambats and football helmets are completely fine and klei has decided to go with the new planar damage, so there won't be any item removal.

So normal silk should exist and not have any good uses? How many new players have you seen that are able to kill depth dwellers and sea striders or are even going to caves or the sea to encounter them to begin with?

Limiting dark sword and night armor crafting to pseudoscience would be terrible.

Why nerf Eyebrella? It is only useful in spring as summer is spent in caves. Even with wildfires off, it is powerful but seasonal dangers become stale after a few ingame years.

Farming should be buffed, how could you even suggest a nerf when there are so many better options out there.. It doesn't make any sense. If giant crops gave like 10 produce, it would still not be as good as other options.

Bundling wrap's only efficient use is to stop spoiling, if the items spoiled even at 1-5%, I wouldn't bother using them.

 

Honestly, your takes have been pretty bad on this topic and it just seems like you want klei to ignore megabasing and focus on survival. You are limited by your imagination and how many options there are for developers to make the game more difficult while still allowing people to have an enjoyable experience over a longer period of time in the same world.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Uedo said:

No bashing. In response to the above; I'd certainly have issues for a while if that happened. I did have those issues for a long time before i felt comfortable dealing with them. Then I adapted, and now some of those threats are minimal. It's ok to struggle with stuff - It honestly took me years before I could survive a full DST year comfortably (not kidding), but you learn methods of dealing with what comes and it becomes less bothersome. 

I’m glad someone finally understands my point, I did not “Beat” Don’t Starve before I jumped into Reign of Giants DLC looking for new World Altering Changes that weren’t present in Baseline DS, I did not “Beat” RoG before buying the Shipwrecked DLC to once again.. experience World Altering Changes, and I did not “Beat” SW before buying the Hamlet DLC.

Each of these purchases offered up new ways of playing the game by adding new biomes, mobs, weather effects & challenges to a World I had gotten far too familiar with.

Sure I’d get familiar with any new seasons Klei adds to DST at some point.. but that didn’t stop me from buying DLCs to change up my game experience.

[Spino43]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wait since when was anyone talking about base destruction? If I want to argue THAT point I’ll discuss the Twins of Terror Phase 2.. whom you can just “Avoid” fighting once they get to Phase 2 and then Resummon them again on some random unlucky player in the server rather they are or are not in their base.. ToT won’t care, and their angry dash will absolutely wreck your base up.

Tot does not destroy structures, only walls and fences.

You can communicate with others to either stay at one spot or go to the caves before fighting it, and if they refuse, there's the kick option.

[Hungry French]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If klei decided to follow your suggestion of purely survival updates and nerfs, I wouldn't be able to continue playing DST in the same capacity. I wouldn't quit playing completely but I don't think I would ever attempt to megabase again and that would mean I wouldn't play nearly as much.

Also, you are forgetting that most of the money klei makes is from skins and megabasers are the only ones that want to have as many as possible.

Hambats and football helmets are completely fine and klei has decided to go with the new planar damage, so there won't be any item removal.

So normal silk should exist and not have any good uses? How many new players have you seen that are able to kill depth dwellers and sea striders or are even going to caves or the sea to encounter them to begin with?

Limiting dark sword and night armor crafting to pseudoscience would be terrible.

Why nerf Eyebrella? It is only useful in spring as summer is spent in caves. Even with wildfires off, it is powerful but seasonal dangers become stale after a few ingame years.

Farming should be buffed, how could you even suggest a nerf when there are so many better options out there.. It doesn't make any sense. If giant crops gave like 10 produce, it would still not be as good as other options.

Bundling wrap's only efficient use is to stop spoiling, if the items spoiled even at 1-5%, I wouldn't bother using them.

 

Honestly, your takes have been pretty bad on this topic and it just seems like you want klei to ignore megabasing and focus on survival. You are limited by your imagination and how many options there are for developers to make the game more difficult while still allowing people to have an enjoyable experience over a longer period of time in the same world.

We want DS updates

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If klei decided to follow your suggestion of purely survival updates and nerfs, I wouldn't be able to continue playing DST in the same capacity. I wouldn't quit playing completely but I don't think I would ever attempt to megabase again and that would mean I wouldn't play nearly as much.

Also, you are forgetting that most of the money klei makes is from skins and megabasers are the only ones that want to have as many as possible.

How are these changes I suggested here harming megabasers? These changes are meant to help the exploration and survival experience which goes largely ignored in dst and no random boss fights and optional islands is not survival content it's random challenges there is a difference. Also it's getting annoying that you keep implying that the only part of the player base that spends money on skins or even matters is the megabaser side if your looking for a company only motivated by the side who whales the most consistently I have a great company for you called E.A. but I think most players would agree that's not how they want Kiel to operate.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Hambats and football helmets are completely fine and klei has decided to go with the new planar damage, so there won't be any item removal.

You missed the point the purpose of their removal is to help don't starve together ocean and cave both shine and give the player a reason to explore beyond the main island. These 2 items aren't overpowered but their ease of access on the mainland undermines gear like the cookie cutter cap for example and if players don't feel like using it the log suit and marble suit would still exist no?

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

So normal silk should exist and not have any good uses? How many new players have you seen that are able to kill depth dwellers and sea striders or are even going to caves or the sea to encounter them to begin with?

So this one here actually highlights a problem but first the only items I've come up with at the moment to use the refined silk concept is rain gear. Does that suddenly destroy all uses for silk? So now for that problem which is the reason for the change what reason does a new player have to go out to sea or the caves? Many players have the mindset of the sea being pointless outside of the doing the quest line infact many won't ever go to sea if they don't plan to do the questline or loot the lunar and moon quay islands often never to return after that. Why is that? Well it's because ocean content is just fluff most options out there are side grades or inferior to the mainland while having little to nothing to do with our survival needs.

Also really think about this are sea striders or depth dwellers really that much harder than normal spiders or does the average casual player blow up their threat level because they don't encounter them often because there's not a reason you would? Depth Dwellers are slightly inferior to spider warriors while sea striders are much slower than even normal spiders and even then they're all instant killed by baskets which were upgraded to reset themselves after you grab the loot inside.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Limiting dark sword and night armor crafting to pseudoscience would be terrible.

Why would limiting what is agreed to be one of the game's strongest weapons and armors available in the first 8+ days be a problem?

 

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Why nerf Eyebrella? It is only useful in spring as summer is spent in caves. Even with wildfires off, it is powerful but seasonal dangers become stale after a few ingame years.

Gives other options more space to shine and it doesn't disappear completely simply gets moved to post fuel weaver which likely will be done as seasonal dangers start to become "stale".

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Farming should be buffed, how could you even suggest a nerf when there are so many better options out there.. It doesn't make any sense. If giant crops gave like 10 produce, it would still not be as good as other options.

I mean I asked for buffs the only nerfs I gave was the removal of auto crop combos and bringing back the winter downside aside for crops that favored winter.

But I said overall crop dishes should have higher values than dishes that don't require them or ingredients from the ocean or caves. I said farming's requirements should be eased meaning it would be easier to make healthy and large crops naturally.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Bundling wrap's only efficient use is to stop spoiling, if the items spoiled even at 1-5%, I wouldn't bother using them.

Bundling wraps also work on non food items you know? I get it we love our bundling wraps but completely undermining the spoilage mechanic like this was never a good decision in my opinion.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Honestly, your takes have been pretty bad on this topic and it just seems like you want klei to ignore megabasing and focus on survival. You are limited by your imagination and how many options there are for developers to make the game more difficult while still allowing people to have an enjoyable experience over a longer period of time in the same world.

Honestly it just feels like bias here difficulty does not equal survival. Your takes have basically amounted to megabaser are more important because they spend more money on average and survival content doesn't matter because it's inconvenient to megabasers nothing about the changes I suggested here should have some death spiral to bases these changes aren't destroying your base are they? So how are they ruining your megabase experience? On the flipside can you point out some new content that was added that impacted survival before this arc beyond here's a new item that makes survival easier?

You are just fanning the flames of the discussion of megabasing being harmful to survival content when you continue to say only the type of players who consistently spend the most money matter and all other customers be damned. So please stop using this argument it feels gross and just divides the community more. If you truly believe in your stance your wallet shouldn't need to be your shield.

[00petar00]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

How are these changes I suggested here harming megabasers? These changes are meant to help the exploration and survival experience which goes largely ignored in dst and no random boss fights and optional islands is not survival content it's random challenges there is a difference. Also it's getting annoying that you keep implying that the only part of the player base that spends money on skins or even matters is the megabaser side if your looking for a company only motivated by the side who whales the most consistently I have a great company for you called E.A. but I think most players would agree that's not how they want Kiel to operate.

You can't really argue that survival players don't need as many skins as megabasers that want to make their base and decorations look nice.

If the suggestions you gave were implemented it would mean that DST would be shifting more towards the survival and megabasers would quit as there are a lot of other games that allow them to build as much as they want without having to bother with repetitive survival mechanics for tens of game years without any possibility to mitigate them.

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You missed the point the purpose of their removal is to help don't starve together ocean and cave both shine and give the player a reason to explore beyond the main island. These 2 items aren't overpowered but their ease of access on the mainland undermines gear like the cookie cutter cap for example and if players don't feel like using it the log suit and marble suit would still exist no?

There is enough of a reason to go to ruins and ocean has been lackluster from the release and removal of hambat or football helmet won't change anything.

Why would anyone use cookie cutter cap? They would just switch to eyemask and thulecite crowns.

 

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So this one here actually highlights a problem but first the only items I've come up with at the moment to use the refined silk concept is rain gear. Does that suddenly destroy all uses for silk? So now for that problem which is the reason for the change what reason does a new player have to go out to sea or the caves? Many players have the mindset of the sea being pointless outside of the doing the quest line infact many won't ever go to sea if they don't plan to do the questline or loot the lunar and moon quay islands often never to return after that. Why is that? Well it's because ocean content is just fluff most options out there are side grades or inferior to the mainland while having little to nothing to do with our survival needs.

Also really think about this are sea striders or depth dwellers really that much harder than normal spiders or does the average casual player blow up their threat level because they don't encounter them often because there's not a reason you would? Depth Dwellers are slightly inferior to spider warriors while sea striders are much slower than even normal spiders and even then they're all instant killed by baskets which were upgraded to reset themselves after you grab the loot inside.

New players can't survive on overworld, do you really expect them to go to caves or to sail? It seems like you have forgotten or just don't want to acknowledge how notoriously difficult DST is for new players, there is no guide and they won't even be able to feed themselves reliably without crockpot and recipes, much less surviving seasons and deerclops.

What difference does it make how hard it is to kill depth dweller or sea strider when new players can't reach them? Another issue is that we can't farm them like normal spiders.

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why would limiting what is agreed to be one of the game's strongest weapons and armors available in the first 8+ days be a problem?

Pseudoscience recipes aren't learnable, every time you want to make more you would need to go to pseudoscience station and your inventory slots are limited. Some players don't want to use a lot of thulecite gear because of this restriction. 

49 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Gives other options more space to shine and it doesn't disappear completely simply gets moved to post fuel weaver which likely will be done seasonal dangers become "stale".

Rain coat limiting your inventory slots, umbrella hand slot item or rain hat but it is 70%, so not very good options. 

57 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean I asked for buffs the only nerfs I gave was the removal of auto crop combos and bringing back the winter downside aside for crops that favored winter.

But I said overall crop dishes should have higher values than dishes that don't require them or ingredients from the ocean or caves. I said farming's requirements should be eased meaning it would be easier to make healthy and large crops naturally.

Crop combo farming is the only saving grace but compared to other option even that is not nearly as good. Your idea is to remove crop combos and stop crop growth in winter for any other season's seeds.

Why would anyone farm unless they just want to experience the mechanics? It is just for fun and for new players to be able to engage in team play and have something to do if they are sitting at base.

Farming needs buffs not nerfs.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Bundling wraps also work on non food items you know? I get it we love our bundling wraps but completely undermining the spoilage mechanic like this was never a good decision in my opinion.

That's why I said that their main use is to stop spoilage, I have used it to move large amount of items but this is not nearly as important. 

Why shouldn't there be a workaround for spoilage mechanic? If it ever came to that and there were serious considerations about nerfing bundle wrap, instead of doing that just move it to a new post rift boss.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly it just feels like bias here difficulty does not equal survival. Your takes have basically amounted to megabaser are more important because they spend more money on average and survival content doesn't matter because it's inconvenient to megabasers nothing about the changes I suggested here should have some death spiral to bases these changes aren't destroying your base are they? So how are they ruining your megabase experience? On the flipside can you point out some new content that was added that impacted survival before this arc beyond here's a new item that makes survival easier?

You are just fanning the flames of the discussion of megabasing being harmful to survival content when you continue to say only the type of players who consistently spend the most money matter and all other customers be damned. So please stop using this argument it feels gross and just divides the community more. If you truly believe in your stance your wallet shouldn't be your shield.

What is your point here? Do you think DST would exist if the developers don't get paid? Also I don't have the data but I don't really believe that most survival players would be buying bundles of skins while megabasers are more likely to do that.

I don't have the information as I said but klei can see what type of players are spending the most are and that is going to massively impact the future updates, that is the reality.

 

14 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think the general idea is that megabasing is bad or that it's bad for the game it's more so that it places limiters on what content can ultimately be specifically because it has to adapt to existing playstyles rather than us adapting to it.

As it can be seen here it is often you trying to make this into survival vs megabaser argument.

It is not only the base destruction mechanics that matter, there can be survival mechanics that are going to limit me from being able to play the game how I want, for example acid rain before nerf.

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean I asked for buffs the only nerfs I gave was the removal of auto crop combos and bringing back the winter downside aside for crops that favored winter.

You can't just "remove" crop combo farming as if it's a explicitly defined feature or something, it exists simply because different crops require different nutrients. So if you want to remove it, you'll have to make all the crops the same, which is boring and annoying.

Farming is already quite time consuming compared to other food sources like banana bushes or stone fruits, and those food sources require very little maintenance too. I don't think farming needs a nerf.

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You can't really argue that survival players don't need as many skins as megabasers that want to make their base and decorations look nice.

But they still want plenty of skins to look nice no? If not why do people want skins in games that don't have a mega basing aspect? Do you just think we all run around with default skins?

 

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

There is enough of a reason to go to ruins and ocean has been lackluster from the release and removal of hambat or football helmet won't change anything.

Why would anyone use cookie cutter cap? They would just switch to eyemask and thulecite crowns.

That's definitely and option but can everyone kill the eye of terror or do the ruins with ease? No so now cookie cutter cap becomes a easier alternative increasing it's use among people who want head gear.

13 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Rain coat limiting your inventory slots, umbrella hand slot item or rain hat but it is 70%, so not very good options.

Oh so your saying because it's a impactful change that actually makes you think more it's not a good option we should just immediately get a full cover hands free solution to problems?

16 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Pseudoscience recipes aren't learnable, every time you want to make more you would need to go to pseudoscience station and your inventory slots are limited. Some players don't want to use a lot of thulecite gear because of this restriction.

I'm aware of this it's specifically why I put it here.

20 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

New players can't survive on overworld, do you really expect them to go to caves or to sail? It seems like you have forgotten or just don't want to acknowledge how notoriously difficult DST is for new players, there is no guide and they won't even be able to feed themselves reliably without crockpot and recipes, much less surviving seasons and deerclops.

What difference does it make how hard it is to kill depth dweller or sea strider when new players can't reach them? Another issue is that we can't farm them like normal spiders.

So let me get this straight your saying going to sea or the caves is too much for new players and that they can't survive seasons then please tell me what would this change if our hypothetical player can't survive till spring why do they need higher tier rain gear? Your acting like people lack common sense and can't think  for themselves. A new player can't make a boat? I call bull. A new player can't figure out how to enter a sinkhole? I call bull there too. Will players die from time to time? Yes but if that's the problem why don't we also remove seasons in general I mean the game doesn't spoon feed you that you need to prepare for seasons in advance right?

Also about the issue of we can't farm them how can't we? There exists a massive amount of depth dwellers in the caves as well as mobs we can befriend to help with fighting them.

27 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

hat's why I said that their main use is to stop spoilage, I have used it to move large amount of items but this is not nearly as important. 

Why shouldn't there be a workaround for spoilage mechanic? If it ever came to that and there were serious considerations about nerfing bundle wrap, instead of doing that just move it to a new post rift boss.

So I'm not sure if your aware but resource management is a large part of survival games if we're just gonna put a pause button on food why even have spoilage to begin with?

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

What is your point here? Do you think DST would exist if the developers don't get paid? Also I don't have the data but I don't really believe that most survival players would be buying bundles of skins while megabasers are more likely to do that.

I don't have the information as I said but klei can see what type of players are spending the most are and that is going to massively impact the future updates, that is the reality.

Oh so in your opinion people playing for survival content don't care about how their characters, tools, weapons, and base look and don't feel like mixing up their appearance? Your saying that have absolutely no reason to spend money after purchasing the game this surely isn't bias I guess all those other games not based around base building just have skins that sit there doing nothing am I right? Really stop and think for a second your argument is that the only player that matters is a whale and whales are the ones who should decide the future of the game doesn't matter if other players are spending money as well it's the whales Kiel should appease do you not realize how disgusting that sounds? How flawed that is?

36 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

As it can be seen here it is often you trying to make this into survival vs megabaser argument.

Here's the funny part your making this a survival vs megabaser issue. What your saying is megabase players should have priority over everything else because they more likely to spend the most money and that survival content doesn't matter specifically because it's inconvenient for your megabasing playstyle that it should be fluff so as not to inconvenience your basing experience otherwise it will harm Kiels wallet as the "real important people" who dump all their saving into every single skin with be unpleased.

43 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is not only the base destruction mechanics that matter, there can be survival mechanics that are going to limit me from being able to play the game how I want, for example acid rain before nerf.

So in other words we're not allowed to have new survival content as it would inconvenience you clearly megabase and survival players can co-exist simply ignore people who want survival content huh why didn't I think of that clearly this would have put a end to all these topics. You know what since whaling is so important to the future of don't starve together why don't we just lock these forum posts and dev streams behind a 30$ per month pay wall that way only people who truly matter can voice their opinions on the direction of the game.

37 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You can't just "remove" crop combo farming as if it's a explicitly defined feature or something, it exists simply because different crops require different nutrients. So if you want to remove it, you'll have to make all the crops the same, which is boring and annoying.

Farming is already quite time consuming compared to other food sources like banana bushes or stone fruits, and those food sources require very little maintenance too. I don't think farming needs a nerf.

The idea is to make farming easier to do alongside these changes the nutrient system can still be a thing but it would be changed to never strike a perfect balance on it's own. If farming is tedious without auto crop combos then the focus should be on improving the experience while also not making it too time consuming. While also giving new dishes and improving the value of dishes that require them.

[00petar00]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So let me get this straight your saying going to sea or the caves is too much for new players and that they can't survive seasons then please tell me what would this change if our hypothetical player can't survive till spring why do they need higher tier rain gear? Your acting like people lack common sense and can't think  for themselves. A new player can't make a boat? I call bull. A new player can't figure out how to enter a sinkhole? I call bull there too. Will players die from time to time? Yes but if that's the problem why don't we also remove seasons in general I mean the game doesn't spoon feed you that you need to prepare for seasons in advance right?

Also about the issue of we can't farm them how can't we? There exists a massive amount of depth dwellers in the caves as well as mobs we can befriend to help with fighting them.

There are many players that don't sail or visit caves when they are new at the game and just focus on what is in front of them, locking rain protection behind sea striders and depth dwellers that may not be the easiest creatures to find. Forcing players to visit caves or sail just to get a restricted item required for their spring survival isn't something that should be done as is it going to make it mandatory and limit player option, this would also be frustrating for new players. Caves or sea should receive content updates that will give you a reason to explore them on your own terms.

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So I'm not sure if your aware but resource management is a large part of survival games if we're just gonna put a pause button on food why even have spoilage to begin with?

In quite a few of the survival games I play, there are options or at least some foods that can be preserved either permanently or long enough that it doesn't matter. You can have fridge, freezer, jars, dry or smoke meat.. In DST some of the options exist but it is still unreasonably short spoil time compared to real life or other games.

Obviously I wouldn't want bundle wraps nerfed or removed but I did respond and gave a suggestion and you are unwilling to compromise, what is wrong with the solution I gave to lock it behind some new rift boss? Like you told me before with world settings, same can be applied to items, If you really find it overpowered no one is forcing you to use it.

32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Oh so in your opinion people playing for survival content don't care about how their characters, tools, weapons, and base look and don't feel like mixing up their appearance? Your saying that have absolutely no reason to spend money after purchasing the game this surely isn't bias I guess all those other games not based around base building just have skins that sit there doing nothing am I right? Really stop and think for a second your argument is that the only player that matters is a whale and whales are the ones who should decide the future of the game doesn't matter if other players are spending money as well it's the whales Kiel should appease do you not realize how disgusting that sounds? How flawed that is?

Don't put words in my mouth, what I am saying is that survival players don't even use half of the items and structures in the game and even if they do, they won't need multiple skins for them.

That's how life is in the world we live today and you are just lying to yourself if you believe that the game would continue receiving updates if they didn't sell any skins from now on. 

40 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Here's the funny part your making this a survival vs megabaser issue. What your saying is megabase players should have priority over everything else because they more likely to spend the most money and that survival content doesn't matter specifically because it's inconvenient for your megabasing playstyle that it should be fluff so as not to inconvenience your basing experience otherwise it will harm Kiels wallet as the "real important people" who dump all their saving into every single skin with be unpleased.

Like I said multiple times, I don't have the data but developers can look and decide to tailor updates towards the players that spend money, I don't know if it is the megabasers or survival players or the players that just enjoy the game as it is. Why do you think there have been so few survival changes over the years? This may be a decent guess.

45 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So in other words we're not allowed to have new survival content as it would inconvenience you clearly megabase and survival players can co-exist simply ignore people who want survival content huh why didn't I think of that clearly this would have put a end to all these topics. You know what since whaling is so important to the future of don't starve together why don't we just lock these forum posts and dev streams behind a 30$ per month pay wall that way only people who truly matter can voice their opinions on the direction of the game.

I should have worded that better, I wouldn't mind new survival mechanics but I also want to be able to completely invalidate most of the really annoying ones by progression, introduce really expensive items or buildings that survival players can't build or craft and I wouldn't mind, the issue is when it affects me on my day 3000+ world and I can do nothing about it.

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve “Almost” Given up all hope on DST delivering the type of experiences I enjoyed with DSA & it’s DLCs..

If I ever get Filthy rich I’m actually going to pay Klei a great deal of money to Re-Release DS but this time with 2 player co-op, and two brand new SW & Hamlet sized DLC expansions.

Because whatever game DST is.. or is becoming.. it’s not the type of experience I enjoyed the franchise FOR, and at this point I’d rather just fully fund the entire development of a DS Remaster all by myself.. but that’s only assuming I actually get filthy rich someday.

I also think it’s a very very VERY Bad thing to just “Assume” That Mega-Basers is what is keeping Klei Afloat with Profit, this mindset is ridiculous to the maximum degree of Ridiculous..

Solo DS didn’t have any skins at all Whatsoever.. but that didn’t stop people from buying paid DLC expansion packs to enjoy new Biomes, new Mobs, New Resources, New Weather Effects, New Playable Characters and Overall: More of what made Dont Starve, Dont Starve.

It’s probably those pretty base skins that are the reason we can’t get some new or ported over weather hazards.

I’d Personally enjoy Strong Winds from Hamlet & Floods from SW.

Hell I’d enjoy Allergy Season in DST at this point…

I’d be willing to pay Klei 20$ for a new paid DLC expansion the same size & scope of SW & Hamlet.

Pretty base skins are the CHEAPEST and SAFEST Way for Klei to make profit

But I guarantee you that if they released a Mighty Max-Esque “Lunar Horrors” DLC that I’d be one of the first in line to buy it- Assuming it wasn’t just one or two mobs and then call it a day.. I’d want an entire SW/Ham sized expansion.

[Mysterious box]

56 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

There are many players that don't sail or visit caves when they are new at the game and just focus on what is in front of them, locking rain protection behind sea striders and depth dwellers that may not be the easiest creatures to find. Forcing players to visit caves or sail just to get a restricted item required for their spring survival isn't something that should be done as is it going to make it mandatory and limit player option, this would also be frustrating for new players. Caves or sea should receive content updates that will give you a reason to explore them on your own terms.

Most players don't visit the sea or caves for the very reason that there isn't a good reason to explore them making visiting them mandatory does in fact help ease players into visiting them there a some players who've never gone to sea or caves(beyond the entrance to grab light bulbs) even after becoming more experienced for that reason. You can't make the ocean appealing if there's never a reason to go to the ocean for example.

 

56 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Don't put words in my mouth, what I am saying is that survival players don't even use half of the items and structures in the game and even if they do, they won't need multiple skins for them.

That's how life is in the world we live today and you are just lying to yourself if you believe that the game would continue receiving updates if they didn't sell any skins from now on. 

This just isn't true because it assumes megabasers are the only people who decorate or care about appearance so let me just say it's wrong. It's also assuming that only megabase players buy skins what in the world gave that idea as I've said how in the world would a game not based around base building sell skins if the only we're going by your logic that the only reason a person would buy skins would be to decorate a base?

56 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Like I said multiple times, I don't have the data but developers can look and decide to tailor updates towards the players that spend money, I don't know if it is the megabasers or survival players or the players that just enjoy the game as it is. Why do you think there have been so few survival changes over the years? This may be a decent guess.

We can't say for sure either way but if this new end game content as well as the backlash the lack of survival content has been getting is saying anything it's that people and possibly even the devs want to change that.

56 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I should have worded that better, I wouldn't mind new survival mechanics but I also want to be able to completely invalidate most of the really annoying ones by progression, introduce really expensive items or buildings that survival players can't build or craft and I wouldn't mind, the issue is when it affects me on my day 3000+ world and I can do nothing about it.

I get where your coming from but my issue is that at that point we'd probably be better off splitting the game into a creative and survival mode. If you add a permanent solution to every problem then the game gets stale. The only other solution would be to infinitely introduce new survival problems to replace the ones we leave behind but that can lead to some really wacky balancing.

And I get it the idea then becomes well why not just not use the mechanic deletion tool but not only is that the same argument as why not turn it off in the settings. It also brings up the scenario of what if we were just given a craft that prints infinite food, armor, and resources with zero input from the player. We could very much ignore this extremely useful item but it sure wouldn't feel too good intentionally playing suboptimal to make our own sense of balance.

[Creatorofswamps]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:35 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Needing to build a raft just to cross a large pond of water blocking you off from progressing, or needing a Gas Mask to traverse a poisonous gas biome that otherwise bleeds your health out trying to travel through and explore.

Roughly speaking, the caves have turned into a poisonous biome after the upgrade, now you need special equipment to feel comfortable there. One of the life updates added us an updated guardian and varjat (little wargs) - these were pleasant dangers for survival and in fact it was the beginning of rethinking the old content. (the renovation of vegetable gardens was also top in this regard) I will not scold klei as many do, I just want them to work on the old content, making it fit the modernity, and I also want more content la Sincere and immersion in the world

[Masked Koopa]

Can they remove ponds and replace them with fresh water tiles I think that would be cool since they could remove the normal fishing rod and rename the ocean fishing rod accordingly. Maybe we could blow up frozen water tiles to go fishing under the ice during winter.

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean I asked for buffs the only nerfs I gave was the removal of auto crop combos and bringing back the winter downside aside for crops that favored winter

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

The idea is to make farming easier to do alongside these changes the nutrient system can still be a thing but it would be changed to never strike a perfect balance on it's own. If farming is tedious without auto crop combos then the focus should be on improving the experience while also not making it too time consuming. While also giving new dishes and improving the value of dishes that require them.

1. Farming is not that tedious without auto combo, you can still grow crops without combo and get 1 fruit 2 seeds, as long as you fertilise to full at the beginning.

2. Removing "perfect balance on its own" simply means more time spent in the garden fertilising, this is clearly a nerf, and you even said that in the first comment I quoted.

3. More dishes is a good idea, though I think a small rework to cooking system would be better.

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also think it’s a very very VERY Bad thing to just “Assume” That Mega-Basers is what is keeping Klei Afloat with Profit, this mindset is ridiculous to the maximum degree of Ridiculous..

It’s probably those pretty base skins that are the reason we can’t get some new or ported over weather hazards

So given this context, you mean

A) Mega-basers are not giving the most profit to Klei, and thus it would be ridiculous for Klei to change their content solely because they fear losing money from mega-basers not buying structure skins.

B) Klei fear adding base destruction to the game because people wouldn't buy the skins anymore.

If skins aren't Klei's major income then why would they not add hazards because it would effect selling skins?

Seems contradictory enough to me Mike.

[Copyafriend]

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’ve “Almost” Given up all hope on DST delivering the type of experiences I enjoyed with DSA & it’s DLCs..

Honestly man you probably should stop trying to expect that.

I’m actually not bashing (this time) its just that i dont really think that an update could be feasibly large enough to really shake the game up or shake up your experience on the level that a dlc can. There are real definite advantages to dlc including the fact that you dont have to work around or keep in mind preexisting content.

Its that preexisting content that makes it nearly impossible to reinvent the game to the level you want