Nitre formations are useful in my opinion

[abrocator]

I was down in the caves gathering lightbulbs and mushrooms (and killing depth worms) and a lengthy acid rain started. Then I went to a biome with ponds and finally figured out how to mine them (click on the pond, not the formations themselves—d’oh!).

32 nitre is a nice boon as a side-quest to what I was doing.

The only nitre sink I’ve got is my beefalo. And nitre is something that I usually have to dedicate time to getting since you don’t find a lot of it outside of a petrified forest in the lategame (or outside of Wilson). So it’s nice to get a supply of nitre that is gonna last a while.

[Brago-sama]

How much nitre would you say pops per pond in your experience

[abrocator]

Seems like four per pond.

[_zwb]

Just swap to Wilson and craft 12800 nitres, bundle them up and swap back. I think this way saves more time than going to ponds every so often.

[Dragonboooorn]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Just swap to Wilson and craft 12800 nitres, bundle them up and swap back. I think this way saves more time than going to ponds every so often.

I have never thought that Wilson will become a swap character one day. What a time to be alive

[Catteflyterpill]

2 hours ago, _zwb said:

Just swap to Wilson and craft 12800 nitres, bundle them up and swap back. I think this way saves more time than going to ponds every so often.

It's a little disheartening to see how some characters are just swap characters. I loved playing Warly, but when people only see him viable as a means to make a bunch of Volt Goat Chaud-Froid before swapping back to Wolfgang kinda leaves a sour taste. A little dissatisfying to see some characters only utilized for swaps, feel like the mechanic isn't very well balanced.

[_zwb]

8 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

It's a little disheartening to see how some characters are just swap characters. I loved playing Warly, but when people only see him viable as a means to make a bunch of Volt Goat Chaud-Froid before swapping back to Wolfgang kinda leaves a sour taste. A little dissatisfying to see some characters only utilized for swaps, feel like the mechanic isn't very well balanced.

"Walking can be tiresome you know" -- Maxwell.

And that's why I only play as Wanda in the late game. The backtrek watch is just too good.

Those other characters' items can be used without them so no point staying as them after you get them. And sometimes it's not about their power level, just the starting items: I swap to Maxwell repeatedly to farm nightmare fuel. It is by far the most efficient nf farm in the game considering how cheap moon rock idols are and you get 6 fuel per swap

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, _zwb said:

Just swap to Wilson and craft 12800 nitres, bundle them up and swap back. I think this way saves more time than going to ponds every so often.

"Just cheat" is how I see the Celestial Portal.

[chirsg]

6 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I have never thought that Wilson will become a swap character one day. What a time to be alive

I don't think wilson is quick enough to be a swap character. His processing time is too slow. 

[Gashzer]

8 hours ago, Evelo said:

"Just cheat" is how I see the Celestial Portal.

Thats how i view anyone who uses statues/fossils for bugging out mobs. Or void walking... or client mods for auto rowing/further view distance. 

Tbh if you are not cheating in DST, you are not playing the game right! This is what Klei intends by leaving all these bugs in. 

[_zwb]

9 hours ago, Evelo said:

"Just cheat" is how I see the Celestial Portal.

It's hilarious how the devs intentionally add cheats to The Uncompromising Wilderness Survival Game of All Times isn't it?

[abrocator]

15 hours ago, Evelo said:

"Just cheat" is how I see the Celestial Portal.

That’s a strong word and I don’t see how you can objectively argue for it.

A cheat is either:

1. Using an exploit that wasn’t intended by the devs
2. Using a cheat put there intentionally by the devs

Point number one doesn’t apply. The Celestial Portal was put there by the devs. The character-swap meta is a direct utilization of that feature, without any shenanigans.

Point number two: developers do sometimes put cheats in their games. Then you will need to type a code in somewhere. In DST you can use the console for that.

So unless the devs called the Celestial Portal a “cheat” when they released it, I don’t see how you can argue that it is objectively speaking a way of cheating. And it would be weird if they put it in the base game directly, without having to change the settings or use the console, if they intended for it to be a cheat. Because then people who would start playing the game three years after the release of that update (not knowing anything about their intent) might end up cheating not-on-purpose.

Subjectively you can have any opinions you want. But then the usual word is just “overpowered”.

 

[Copyafriend]

21 hours ago, Catteflyterpill said:

It's a little disheartening to see how some characters are just swap characters

There is no such thing as a swap character, only players who swap characters.

you CAN play winona for her catapults, people dont, but not because “i can switch to her”.

people dont play winona because she’s boring. It has nothing to do with the celestial portal. 

and people don’t typically play warly because he requires thinking about food, and people are lazy.

Just because you CAN use their bonuses as other characters doesnt mean that they’re only valuable for the switch. Nobody calls wolfgang a switch character even though you could easily just prep as “your character” and switch to wolfgang for one or more hard bossfights, but almost no one does it that way, its a myth outside of misery toadstool, despite there being multiple bosses that are harder than misery toadstool.

yeesh, its like some people cant fathom that you’re ALLOWED to change characters. Its not cheating, its not exploiting, its literally allowed and cheap. 
 

if you prep food as warly you’re literally just prepping twice as much as normal. If you prep food as warly then switch to wolfgang you’re prepping three times as much. Warly spices and volt goat jelly and multiple idols and the celestial portal isnt cheap or fast. honestly unless you’re fighting one of the final bosses you’re probably spending more time prepping that stuff than just gathering more healing and armor, farms exist for food and armor for a reason.

[cybers2001]

I wouldn't be against the idea of some sort of cooldown to the portal to prevent swap characters. I would even be willing to play Warly for several seasons if it was the only way I could bundle up volt-goat jelly.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

I wouldn't be against the idea of some sort of cooldown to the portal to prevent swap characters. I would even be willing to play Warly for several seasons if it was the only way I could bundle up volt-goat jelly.

I've been asking for this since the celestial portal was implemented, but 'll give the answer I always get when I mention this topic before someone else does: -"If you don't like the celestial portal don't use it."

The thing is, it is there, and it is working as intended, not using it would be like saying "don't use the crock pot cause with it its too easy to not starve".
I think the issue about the portal is different than using mods, which is something that you need to go out of your way to add and is not something intended or balanced upon to be in the game, or exploiting bugs which also is something unintended by the devs, the portal is a feature that was purposely added and never balanced around.
I am aware its not a competitive game, but as the magnificent @Mike23Ua said in another topic, even single player games need some balancing to keep things "fair".

[Catteflyterpill]

7 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

There is no such thing as a swap character, only players who swap characters.

you CAN play winona for her catapults, people dont, but not because “i can switch to her”.

people dont play winona because she’s boring. It has nothing to do with the celestial portal. 

and people don’t typically play warly because he requires thinking about food, and people are lazy.

Just because you CAN use their bonuses as other characters doesnt mean that they’re only valuable for the switch. Nobody calls wolfgang a switch character even though you could easily just prep as “your character” and switch to wolfgang for one or more hard bossfights, but almost no one does it that way, its a myth outside of misery toadstool, despite there being multiple bosses that are harder than misery toadstool.

yeesh, its like some people cant fathom that you’re ALLOWED to change characters. Its not cheating, its not exploiting, its literally allowed and cheap. 
 

if you prep food as warly you’re literally just prepping twice as much as normal. If you prep food as warly then switch to wolfgang you’re prepping three times as much. Warly spices and volt goat jelly and multiple idols and the celestial portal isnt cheap or fast. honestly unless you’re fighting one of the final bosses you’re probably spending more time prepping that stuff than just gathering more healing and armor, farms exist for food and armor for a reason.

But moonrock idols are really cheap, they feel much too cheap for the kind of bonus they offer. And I know I don't have to use the celestial portal, nor is anybody exploiting the game for using it - fact of the matter is that it's an intentional part of the game. However, in a game where character perks, traits and obstacles are supposed to be important for playstyle I don't think it's a very well balanced mechanic to be able to swap characters so easily. Because even if isn't cheating, poorly balanced mechanics can be pretty discouraging to players. 

I'm not saying we have to do away with the whole mechanic, and I don't appreciate the argument being oversimplified to not being able to fathom the concept, I just don't think it's a good system as it is now. Some more expensive drawbacks to character swapping I think could help weigh things out a little better. 

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, Catteflyterpill said:

I just don't think it's a good system as it is now.

And you are perfectly allowed to see it as a poorly balanced system. I honestly just disagree.

It may be a hot take but honestly there’s always two things  i always consider when it comes to “unbalanced mechanics”

how much effort does it really save you

and is it something that you have to go out of your way to do.

 

well, it doesn’t actually save you that much effort, it makes boss fights shorter, but most boss fights arent worth prepping to that degree for. And you do have to purposefully switch characters multiple times to collect all the boosts to make yourself as efficient as possible.

 

i mean honestly if you want to play the MOST EFFICIENT way you can and you went out of your way to obtain multiple different damage buffs by switching characters multiple times…

yeah you better be pretty OP by the end of it. But honestly the fights arent easier, just shorter. The only boss fight made actually easier that i know of is bee queen because of her minions, the rest have a better workaround than raw damage. 
 

look man, i get what you saying about it being strong, but also its only as strong as you’re talking about if you go out of your way to specifically do a lot of extra damage. Switching from one non combat character to another is rarely that beneficial. Its like cool i was a wurt, now i’m a wormwood, guess I’ll start doing the wormwood thing at day 200 instead of using all those houses i already built. 
 

its literally just warly and wolfgang combo thats strong, and unless you’re fighting toadstool its only a ~4x damage multi, huge, except you also have to prep all that seasoned food and make the celestial portal and use two moonrock idols (a purple gem each isnt that cheap) and oh wait it would’ve been faster to just play as wolfgang and gather weapons and armor like normal.

The combo isnt all that busted. It really just isnt. If you can handle it as wilson, making the seasonings and becoming wolfgang is just hilariously overkill. Its too much work, thats why no one actually does it outside of first time kills or misery toadstools obscene healthbar, they just whine about people being able to do it. Just play as wolfgang if you wanna kill bosses efficiently. 

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

ll give the answer I always get when I mention this topic before someone else does

Hot take: its just not all that busted. Only one combo is seriously “OP” and you arent going to do it on accident.

if you wanna minmax, you’re allowed to, but no one does because its more effort than its worth yeah let me switch characters two times and prep chili seasoning AND volt goat jelly just to kill one boss. 

really feels like some efficient maxwell gaming there, definitely not over engineering a solution when you could always just… play as wolfgang and get half the boost with none of the work

[Gashzer]

"Swap" characters are better than "non-swap" characters tho. If playing solo ill switch to:

• Winona to setup catapults at bee queen or ancient fuelweaver.
• Wormwood for living logs/bramble husks.
• Wigfrid for cheap battle helms for my merm army.
• Wurt for clever disguise, merm army and merm king trading.
• Webber if i want to farm knobbly nuts or relocate a large amount of spider dens.
• Wolfgang for misery toadstool.
• Wickerbottom/maxwell for reading books for mass resource farming.
• Walter for tent rolls, absolutely fantastic for wormwood mains ( also usually start as walter for boosted exploration)
• Willow can spam bernies if you havnt yet killed ancient fuelweaver or her lighter is good for walter mains.
• Warly for volt goat jelly.
• Wilson for all his crafts.

Its the non swap characters Wandy, Wendy, Wx, wortox, wes, woodie. That have no use playing as for solo players. Their perks dont add to the global perk soup you can have going. Even Wandas rift network isnt worth making unless you play her 24-7 so she creates more work than she solves if you like character swapping.

Wx and wortox are kinda in the same boat as Walter. All 3 are fantastic for early game exploration but fall off when you start getting luxury stuff like a rider beefalo and have explored the whole map. Atleast Walter has a craft that other characters can use tho.

Wendy gets replaced by swapping to winona or wormwood. Also taming ornery over a rider is worse for every character apart from her and wes. Celestial portal has nerfed her usefulness massively.

[Evelo]

Oh boy the swap character argument again. Sorry for thinking the Celestial Portal is cheating.
I play purely solo. I pick a character, I am stuck with that character for that world. Playing multiplayer? Cool enjoy the benefits of different characters! Because idk what Klei's intention was when adding the Portal I assumed it was for players (namely non-PC players since they don't get console commands) to swap characters if they picked one they don't find enjoyable. (Me every time I decide to give anyone that isn't Wormwood a try).

23 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Thats how i view anyone who uses statues/fossils for bugging out mobs. Or void walking... or client mods for auto rowing/further view distance.

I don't do any of that because I do feel like that's cheating (Not the auto-row that is at least I think a good tool for people who struggle with consistent clicking, it's an accessibility feature but some people use accessibility features for convenience rather than necessity all the time so yknow)

Point is, Celestial Portal is a thing, I don't use it and balancing around it is impossible so no need to even bring up character balance and swap characters yada yada. Make the game function accordingly assuming the Celestial Portal doesn't exist. That way you can get some crazy whatever assuming you do use it if you want.
"Your world, your rules" Just have fun, it's a game designed for entertainment after all.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Snip

But people argue that characters like Wanda are op without considering that none of perks carry over when using celestial portal. This makes her less useful than she actually is. Hence Wanda is pretty balanced right now because of the celestial portal!

The fact is, the celestial portal is a legit function in the game. Its like people say using catapults or followers to "cheese" bee queen is cheating. But its not, its a legit function of using followers or winonas perk.

The celestial portal does infact exist, is intended feature for everyone and can be used freely so ofc balancing any possible new characters against it should be a thing.

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

"Your world, your rules" Just have fun, it's a game designed for entertainment after all.

Aye but so is every game..... the best games are the ones that are well-balanced. DST could benefit with a a wee bit more linear direction and structure instead of players needing make up their own rules. Scrapbook is an ok start to this structure. Removing old and easy to use bugs (klei have already stated statues/fossils are not intended to be used as walls) would be the next step in adding some well needed polish to DST.

Ps. swap to walter and make yourself some tent rolls since you are a wormwood main.... they are extremely handy. Plus they have been buffed to be as good as regular tents. 

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

DST could benefit with a a wee bit more linear direction and structure instead of players needing make up their own rules.

klei have already stated statues/fossils are not intended to be used as walls

Having to make up your own rules is a good thing. What if you don't like Klei's rules? Also we had linear progression before: Ancient Fuel Weaver and Celestial Champion. They turned out flawed because there's no way a player can figure out the progression by themselves.

Have they really stated that? Fossils have physical collision isn't an issue, the issue is path finding not taking them into account.

[Spino43]

What I expected going into this topic: mmm, nitre eh?

What I get: you are a shame for using the celestial portal and dst sucks because of it.

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

What I expected going into this topic: mmm, nitre eh?

What I get: you are a shame for using the celestial portal and dst sucks because of it.

Tbh its really wilsons rework that is to blame.... and since we are now on the topic of reworks, willow needs a wee mini rework 

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Have they really stated that? Fossils have physical collision isn't an issue, the issue is path finding not taking them into account.

Yeah walls dont unload when you run off screen, statues do. Someone did a bug report on it ages ago and klei replied that statues arnt intended to be used as walls which is what 99% of people use statues for.

Aye mobs/bosses should just punch and instant break statues or spider dens or other mobs/entity that gets in their way to you. Pathfinding/mob AI is shocking bad in DST 

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Pathfinding/mob AI is shocking bad in DST 

I think the reason behind this is that changing path finding is a risky move, as it would likely cause more bugs. So they can't do much about it.

[Evelo]

17 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Ps. swap to walter and make yourself some tent rolls since you are a wormwood main.... they are extremely handy. Plus they have been buffed to be as good as regular tents. 

PS. No. I have Fur Rolls for that. I will not use the Cheating Portal.