Shadow side crafts compared to Lunar side is extremely.... empty

[Reiko24]

I absolutely love the new shadow rifts and mechanics that were added, I wouldn't change them one bit. But... The crafts are extremely disappointing. I mean, the scythe is cool and all, the armor is just a copy of the lunar side, which is understandable, because it makes sense for two sides to have similar equipment, etc.

I won't make any comments about the Umbralla which is just... I will treat it like it doesn't exist, because it just doesn't do anything worthwhile.

 

LUNAR

 Now, the Lunar side has a total of 7 crafts, which are very interesting, comfortable to use, and also strong.

The Brightshade Bomb and Brightshade Staff are very unique equipment, like nothing we've seen before.

The Brightshade Sword is a direct upgrade to the Dark Sword.

The Brightshade Smasher is an excellent ruin clear tool, and the Brightshade Shoevel just kinda exists for farmers I guess.

 

SHADOW

Right now the Shadow side has just 4 crafts. And they are not very interesting.

The Void armor set is like the Brightshade armor set, which is understandable.

The Shadow Reaper is actually the only interesting thing here, because of its Reap mechanic which I absolutely adore.

Next we have the Umbralla... Well. Eyebrella for hand, so no Walking Cane if you want to use this expensive late game item that behaves just like the thing you can get your first Winter.

 

I love the designs and things that happen with the rifts, but there's just no real incentive to choose the Shadow side instead of the Lunar side, which pains me, since I always preferred the shadow gear. I know you probably can have both rifts in the world at the same time, but really, Lunar side offers the same things plus more... No point in choosing the Shadows.

[Fozzlebub]

I'm guessing update 3 will clarify this a bit because there isn't a real interaction between the two sides just yet. Nor an end to the rifts.

It seems like pieces of it in kind of preview form, like play around with this stuff if you want before it coheses.

[Catteflyterpill]

5 minutes ago, Fozzlebub said:

I'm guessing update 3 will clarify this a bit because there isn't a real interaction between the two sides just yet. Nor an end to the rifts.

It seems like pieces of it in kind of preview form, like play around with this stuff if you want before it coheses.

Yeah, it definitely feels like they're setting things up. And totally makes sense that this way they give players a little bit of new content to mess around with while the devs work on bringing everything together, but I do agree with criticisms that the current tools and items could use something that makes them more compelling. Especially with the dangers they're presenting, we would want them to be worth taking the risk of acid rain or bright shade spawns.

[Mike23Ua]

If it was up to me I would make the Umbralla have built in walking cane speed, double down as a spear, (the only spear in the entire game we would be able to repair by the way..) and also protect from Rain/Acid Rain.

On the surface that sounds busted and OP but I beg the Klei devs to test it out.. While using the Umbralla (equipped in hand slot) it will lose durability, which will require constant upkeep costs- So it’s an item that can Co-Exist beside Walking Canes, AND would be a massive QOL item for Console gamers who can’t swap between cane/weapon/cane fast enough.

that’s what Betas are for isn’t it?? To get feedback and try out ideas before going live with the update? Someone at Klei needs to buff this thing and see if it’s a reasonable upgrade. 

[abrocator]

1 hour ago, Catteflyterpill said:

And totally makes sense that this way they give players a little bit of new content to mess around with while the devs work on bringing everything together,

No, it doesn’t make sense when most of the players just react to it by saying “this doesn’t make sense”.

[Mike23Ua]

22 minutes ago, abrocator said:

No, it doesn’t make sense when most of the players just react to it by saying “this doesn’t make sense”.

It’s just a content update, we should be grateful that we are getting any kind of content updates at all. And maybe even Klei themselves feel burned out providing these updates for free with very little profit.

that’s why I wish they would just “Cancel” DST and create a bigger, better, fully fleshed out with tons of new biomes, mobs, resources, weather hazards, bold new gameplay mechanics etc full fledged Sequel.

Klei is “Drip feeding” us these bite-sized updates, and I for one am getting sick of one new mob or two, and a new craftable then calling it a day till several months later with a new update that’s supposed to tie it all together 

I would prefer just buying a SW or Hamlet sized expansion… or even a brand new game entirely.

 

[Zeklo]

I'd like to think—after the criticisms towards the lunar tools—they're taking extra time to make some more interesting crafts.

But who knows for sure.

[abrocator]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s just a content update, we should be grateful that we are getting any kind of content updates at all. And maybe even Klei themselves feel burned out providing these updates for free with very little profit.

If Klei has a master plan where after seven updates it will make sense then they can wait with these betas until that time instead of showing us in-progress stuff that kind of “doesn’t make sense yet”.

There is no development reason for releasing these betas since they are all behind world setting toggles, anyway; clearly they don’t need to be activated in order for them to exist in the game.

So if we regular players can’t see what this is all about and we just have to wait until X updates later in order to say “Ohh, I get it”… then what’s the point? Just release the This Makes Sense beta in six months or something.

Quote

Klei is “Drip feeding” us these bite-sized updates, and I for one am getting sick of one new mob or two, and a new craftable then calling it a day till several months later with a new update that’s supposed to tie it all together 

It’s just a content update, we should be grateful that we are getting any kind of content updates at all. And maybe even Klei themselves feel burned out providing these updates for free with very little profit.

[Pet Rock]

Klei will probably make these crafts more interesting, as they did with the brightshade pickaxe and shovel. Besides, there are still less crafts on the lunar side than on the shadow side so maybe they're balancing it out.

[Catteflyterpill]

1 hour ago, abrocator said:

No, it doesn’t make sense when most of the players just react to it by saying “this doesn’t make sense”.

It's pretty apparent that DST is becoming more of a live service model. I get that people want big, cohesive content updates. But that doesn't mean that's the same for the entire playbase or a good method to get engagement for the game. There's a very large playerbase to appease, and it seems like Klei is trying to give small things for people to come back to and try out while trying to work on larger over-arching content for the game as well. It's understandable that people might not be fans of the model, but it's also understandable why it might be necessary for the devs.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

Next we have the Umbralla... Well. Eyebrella for hand, so no Walking Cane if you want to use this expensive late game item that behaves just like the thing you can get your first Winter.

Apparently this is also supposed to be a weapon that deals spear damage in the code which would make it pretty nice in my book kinda like a shield of terror but for the elements.

[maxwell_winters]

That was to be expected. The Shadow side is already very rich compared to the lunar. It has 6 staves, 4 armor types (Night, Thulecite, Dreadstone, Void) and 3 weapons (Dark Sword, Thulecite club and Reapers). Lunar side has 2 staves,1 armor set and 2 weapons (weapon and armor in particular don't even have unique perks compared to the shadow counterparts). Not to mention that AF has 3 drops compared to CC that only has 1.

We really need Lunar Ruins for some mid-game lunar magic stuff.

[Shosuko]

The thing is, yeah lunar has more crafts but from my perspective the scythe alone is more valuable and interesting then everything from the lunar side put together.

Unfortunately acid rain and boulders from earthquakes..................... are really making it hard to justify even to get such a cool tool.  Those things really need a rework 100000% or I don't think I will be touching any of this.  Like BS were bad, but boulders destroying structures nearly instantly without warning on a very short cd and rain that prevents things from getting wet, and forces me to use horrible gear choices are a line I don't think I want to cross.

This though:

10 hours ago, Pet Rock said:

Klei will probably make these crafts more interesting, as they did with the brightshade pickaxe and shovel. Besides, there are still less crafts on the lunar side than on the shadow side so maybe they're balancing it out.

The lunar update went through a lot of changes based on the feedback from players, and we haven't heard from Klei yet.  I'm sure they are taking the feedback and making adjustments as we speak, changes they will only announce once they are ready to push to the beta for us to test and use.

[Ryusuta]

Simply put, none of the new rewards are worth the obscenely huge drawbacks that come from activating the event. Not even close.

[Reiko24]

12 hours ago, abrocator said:

No, it doesn’t make sense when most of the players just react to it by saying “this doesn’t make sense”.

I mean, it's better to say something than stay quiet. What if it's different than you think? Then it will be too late for feedback. It's not some flame or anger, I'm just saying stuff I see so if there's even a small chance that they aren't gonna change it, maybe they will think about it. I know there's a bigger plan, but it's better to be safe than sorry later.

[abrocator]

24 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

I mean, it's better to say something than stay quiet. What if it's different than you think? Then it will be too late for feedback. It's not some flame or anger, I'm just saying stuff I see so if there's even a small chance that they aren't gonna change it, maybe they will think about it. I know there's a bigger plan, but it's better to be safe than sorry later.

Yes it’s better to say something than to say nothing.

But it doesn’t make sense. They release something now instead of later. It doesn’t make sense to some people.

If you say it doesn’t make sense:

• It will make sense in X amount of updates

If you propose that they just wait with releasing it until it makes sense

• But then we won’t be able to get any feedback from you guys

See how this is incoherent? Not that they are saying it but some people here are (as a proposed explanation).

You can’t shoot down criticism with “it will make sense later” and at the same time insist that you need to post updates continually in order to get feedback.

[D_Good_Fellow]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s just a content update, we should be grateful that we are getting any kind of content updates at all. And maybe even Klei themselves feel burned out providing these updates for free with very little profit.

that’s why I wish they would just “Cancel” DST and create a bigger, better, fully fleshed out with tons of new biomes, mobs, resources, weather hazards, bold new gameplay mechanics etc full fledged Sequel.

Klei is “Drip feeding” us these bite-sized updates, and I for one am getting sick of one new mob or two, and a new craftable then calling it a day till several months later with a new update that’s supposed to tie it all together 

I would prefer just buying a SW or Hamlet sized expansion… or even a brand new game entirely.

I have to assume there is some pressure from outside the development team influencing the release schedule. I feel like Klei straight up said the console releases were pressuring them to release Taking Root by a certain date, so it stands to reason that the current release model was decided by more than just what makes the game good. It's probably being influenced by business models, marketing strategy, and requirements from Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.

I seriously doubt any of these updates are specifically incentivizing people to go out and buy the game for the first time, so game quality alone isn't necessarily profitable in that way. The consistent smaller updates are probably what drive most of the curio sales (most of the updates come with a bunch of skins), so I can see why it would very much be in Klei's favor to keep that system going rather than pivot to a longer form release schedule. Having multiple updates in a row that the devs admit feel "incomplete" makes no sense from a gameplay or development perspective, but a single bulk update with the content from all three might not make sense from a sales/marketing perspective. 

For the record, I also personally prefer bulk updates. I'd sooner have a DST2 since DST honestly feels pretty complete and a lot that's been added since Return of Them has felt self-contained anyway. But also I don't know if a separate release with a separate price tag would provide as steady of an income as the curio sales, especially once you factor in the additional labor and development time it would require. 

None of this is to throw shade at Klei for wanting DST to make money, of course. Folks gotta pay rent. Nor is it to excuse any poor gameplay mechanics brought on by pressured release schedules. I just think it's important to acknowledge the outside factors here.

[Jakepeng99]

On 6/3/2023 at 9:11 PM, Reiko24 said:

I absolutely love the new shadow rifts and mechanics that were added, I wouldn't change them one bit. But... The crafts are extremely disappointing. I mean, the scythe is cool and all, the armor is just a copy of the lunar side, which is understandable, because it makes sense for two sides to have similar equipment, etc.

I won't make any comments about the Umbralla which is just... I will treat it like it doesn't exist, because it just doesn't do anything worthwhile.

 

LUNAR

 Now, the Lunar side has a total of 7 crafts, which are very interesting, comfortable to use, and also strong.

The Brightshade Bomb and Brightshade Staff are very unique equipment, like nothing we've seen before.

The Brightshade Sword is a direct upgrade to the Dark Sword.

The Brightshade Smasher is an excellent ruin clear tool, and the Brightshade Shoevel just kinda exists for farmers I guess.

 

SHADOW

Right now the Shadow side has just 4 crafts. And they are not very interesting.

The Void armor set is like the Brightshade armor set, which is understandable.

The Shadow Reaper is actually the only interesting thing here, because of its Reap mechanic which I absolutely adore.

Next we have the Umbralla... Well. Eyebrella for hand, so no Walking Cane if you want to use this expensive late game item that behaves just like the thing you can get your first Winter.

 

I love the designs and things that happen with the rifts, but there's just no real incentive to choose the Shadow side instead of the Lunar side, which pains me, since I always preferred the shadow gear. I know you probably can have both rifts in the world at the same time, but really, Lunar side offers the same things plus more... No point in choosing the Shadows.

I agree there should be more shadow equipment since they essentially just have the quota armour and weapon, plus some umbrella, though i would say lunar only has 1 more pratically because the lunar tools are kinda useless. I would say the bombs should not need infused shards if they never add another way of getting them outside the moonstorm, and the staff needs alota buffs.

[Fozzlebub]

On 6/3/2023 at 2:44 PM, Catteflyterpill said:

Yeah, it definitely feels like they're setting things up. And totally makes sense that this way they give players a little bit of new content to mess around with while the devs work on bringing everything together, but I do agree with criticisms that the current tools and items could use something that makes them more compelling. Especially with the dangers they're presenting, we would want them to be worth taking the risk of acid rain or bright shade spawns.

For sure, and feedback like that is good because it can highlight issues with individual parts and shows the playerbase's reaction to them. 

I'm still in assess mode on it and seeing what people come up with to circumvent aspects of it and make use of it. And if the loop gets easy/painless and productive with experience.

On just a subjective level I like the rifts a lot because the concept and aesthetic of it are really neat, like an alien force reshaping the world and impacting the game environment. Like trees getting knocked down and coming to the area and treeguards are roaming around, it's interesting even investigating the area post rift to me.

I hope they take the choosing sides thing reallyyyy far and make a lot of interactions between the two or a different end game to it where your chosen side changes the effects of their rifts. Rn it's like Wagstaff you ****, I thought we were teaming up, not giving you license to infest my crops with space demons.

[Theukon-dos]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Vortex Cloak. Make it happen Klei.

[HowlVoid]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:42 PM, Mike23Ua said:

 for free with very little profit.

DST is easily kleis biggest money maker. The franchise is so popular it caught the eyes of tencent. If it was very little profit it would of been cancelled long ago like gorge and forge which were publicly stated to be of very little profit.

Just looking at their communities this one is the biggest, no to mention the Asian community for DST which is extremely large.