How to make ammo shots viable for Walter

[DnD for DST]

Wobby is great but some ammo shots are just trash at the moment. The base ones (marble, gold, rock) are relatively easy to get so it is fine.

Poop ones can only work against non boss monsters, but non boss monsters come in hordes, so it is kind of useless. It should be aoe instead of single target, then it is viable for things like splumonkeys in the ruins.

Freeze rounds should freeze all enemies in one shot. At the moment, it is literally just a slightly worse ice staff.

Slow down rounds are niche, they help with Ancient Guardian. Outside of that fight though I cannot think of many uses, maybe slightly slow down attack rates of enemies it hits?

Cursed rounds shadow tentacles should stay longer, attack more and FIX the bug that only makes it hit once instead of twice.

[dois raios]

I played a bit walter some days ago (just ruins rush), and walter is actually pretty good to rush ruins because of wobby (speed boost in early game).

But I didnt use the slingshot, I made a ham bat, and right before fighting AG, i made another, slingshot dont seems that powerful in early game since you need marble to make marble ammo (the one with higher damage), there is also thulecite ammo right? but since I didnt plan to continue playing in that world, I didnt even craft it.

[Gashzer]

Well as a Walter main the slingshot is definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. Freeze rounds only take one shot to freeze mobs like bishops and rooks which is quite handy when clearing the ruins. Also its slower rate of fire is nicer than the ice staff.. i tend to mistakenly fire an extra ice staff shot pretty often. Then the fact you can stack 6 ice staffs into one slot is awesome.

Poop round is infact poop... but its ok-esh if you have recruited mobs like pigs or bunnymen... it gets enemy mobs off you for your followers to aggro and kill.

Slow down rounds are great again if you use mob followers for killing bosses like bee queen... slows her down allowing more accurate shots (she can actually kite slingshot pellets when shes at full speed) and allowing followers to catch up to her. Also good for phase 2 CC and AG as you mentioned.

Thulecite rounds absolutely wreck phase 3 CC, also slow moving bosses like toadstool are defenceless against this round and its shadow tentacles, very good round to mass produce early game if you intend to kill bee queen during first autumn as Walter.

Marble rounds are probably the worst damage round, too hard to mass produce early game and marble armour is more useful for walter in reducing his sanity/health damage during longer fights like dfly. So i would recommend against making these rounds until late game.. marble armour is the way.

Gold rounds are the mvp round... great for finishing off annoying mobs like mushgnomes after wacking them abit with melee weapons, has darksword dps vs tentacles, great for killing big tentacles, good round for stun locking mobs if you are using followers alongside it. Can pretty easily wreck phase 2 klaus without speed boosts using gold rounds.

I feel like Walters slingshot is good enough as it is... more round types would be great ofc but not necessary... Walter is really really good for experienced players as he stands.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Well as a Walter main the slingshot is definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. Freeze rounds only take one shot to freeze mobs like bishops and rooks which is quite handy when clearing the ruins. Also its slower rate of fire is nicer than the ice staff.. i tend to mistakenly fire an extra ice staff shot pretty often. Then the fact you can stack 6 ice staffs into one slot is awesome.

but the fire rate makes ice staffs much safer to use in these situations making freeze rounds still inferior your putting yourself in much more danger to use it. being able to stack 6 ice staffs is nice but in most cases your getting less mileage out of  it than you would 6 ice staffs purely for the fact that you're always using 2 ice staff shots per attack even on mobs that would have taken 1 less hit.

4 hours ago, DnD for DST said:

Poop ones can only work against non boss monsters, but non boss monsters come in hordes, so it is kind of useless. It should be aoe instead of single target, then it is viable for things like splumonkeys in the ruins.

Can be somewhat useful for deaggroing bishops and rooks in the ruin

 

4 hours ago, DnD for DST said:

Slow down rounds are niche, they help with Ancient Guardian. Outside of that fight though I cannot think of many uses, maybe slightly slow down attack rates of enemies it hits?

Honestly these are quite useful when fighting the issue being that it feels too expensive for what it does so it feels wasteful using them. Heck they even work on shadow creatures.

Alot of what's killing the slingshot's usefulness in the cc department is how slow it fires poop rounds don't work well in crowds because they take so slow to fire that the enemy is already close enough to re aggro in most cases, freeze rounds make it very easy to miss time critical moments when you need to freeze something and overall is just riskier than the ice staff despite trying to be a upgrade.

Something else that really really needs to happen is a massive increase to round stack sizes the cc rounds can stay at 60 but I feel like rock, gold, marble, and cursed rounds should stack to 150-200 to bring it in line with other weapons and make ammo storage much less annoying.

[Riddla]

I think that Walter's slingshot should increase in attack speed the closer his target is, to make it a lot more engaging while minding your position actively.

I assume slingshot received a harsh treatment in terms of DPS because of the fact that you can just hold F through entire fight, while your melee teammate takes all of the aggro. Slingshot rounds need to have some more impact when you're playing solo as well, something that lets you combo both that and your melee attacks. Freezing, Slow-Down, and Poop rounds have great potential, they just need something more.

Maxwell's minions, for example, do less damage if Maxwell himself is not attacking their target. Something similar could be executed with Walter, though rather than nerfing slingshot even more (please for the love of god, don't), make it reward you for active & precise swapping between bullets and weapons in some way.

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, DnD for DST said:

Freeze rounds should freeze all enemies in one shot. At the moment, it is literally just a slightly worse ice staff.

It already freezes most enemies in one shot. It has double the freezing power of the ice staff while holding many more rounds per inventory slot, making it better.

I think that slowdown rounds should be aoe. But other than that his ammo is good.

[ShadowDuelist]

I still feel the slingshot needs to:
- Have higher damage per shot, since it’s very slow, to increase the DPS a bit.
- Have a RMB charged shot that consumes two rounds and deals AOE when it hits something. This could work to damage a group of enemies but being slower it’s most likely going to be a well timed shot for crowd control pellets like the slow or ice.
- Remove the stunlock effect of pellets, so Walter needs to reposition  and it’s not just holding F. In forge playing ranged required you to move and protect yourself for this reason, enemies would not stop charging if you were shooting.

[Theukon-dos]

Unless Klei wants to pull a @Scrimbles and branch the slingshot mechanics off into their own character, I think the only thing I'd change is increasing the rounds per craft ratio upto 15-20. While the DPS is low, range does keep you quite safe, especially sense you can kite on Woby with the slingshot. The real problem comes in the fact that using the Slingshot is comically expensive if you want the fight to end before the heat death of the universe. 

 

Gold, Stone, and poop rounds are probably fine sense they're so easy to obtain en mass. But you need like, 10 pieces of marble just to do the total damage that a spear can do. So not exactly a good deal, eh?

 

[Lardee]

Imagine if Klei gave Walter a late game slingshot that has a faster rate of fire...

[Waitdire]

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

Imagine if Klei gave Walter a late game slingshot that has a faster rate of fire...

Spoiler

 

[Milordo]

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Slow down rounds are great again if you use mob followers for killing bosses like bee queen... slows her down allowing more accurate shots (she can actually kite slingshot pellets when shes at full speed) and allowing followers to catch up to her. Also good for phase 2 CC and AG as you mentioned.

Count Dragonfly too! You can make her so slow, you'll be able to kite easier the next attacks

[Gashzer]

6 hours ago, Lardee said:

Imagine if Klei gave Walter a late game slingshot that has a faster rate of fire...

Nah i disagree, Walter needs a giant slingshot (carried like a statue) that requires him to be mounted on Woby to use. Give it more damage and AoE abilities. Goes with the theme that its both woby and walter vs the world of the constant and makes it so the slingshot and woby arnt just random separate perks.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Nah i disagree, Walter needs a giant slingshot (carried like a statue) that requires him to be mounted on Woby to use. Give it more damage and AoE abilities. Goes with the theme that its both woby and walter vs the world of the constant and makes it so the slingshot and woby arnt just random separate perks.

They already aren't random seperate perks, as Woby and slingshot synergize quite well: you can shoot from slingshot while on Woby(or beefalo), which allows for attacking while mounting and makes repositioning during a fight easier. Take away slingshot, and you can't fight at all while on Woby, except for some staves and darts. Take away Woby, and you need to tame a beefalo to use slingshot without repositioning after every other shot. However, I'd still love to see some changes/tweaks/buffs to Woby, so that there's more reasons to continue using her, instead of just taming a beefalo later on. Also, a comically big slingshot would be hilarious and should definitely be a thing. 

[Theukon-dos]

3 hours ago, skile said:

They already aren't random seperate perks, as Woby and slingshot synergize quite well: you can shoot from slingshot while on Woby(or beefalo), which allows for attacking while mounting and makes repositioning during a fight easier. Take away slingshot, and you can't fight at all while on Woby, except for some staves and darts. Take away Woby, and you need to tame a beefalo to use slingshot without repositioning after every other shot. However, I'd still love to see some changes/tweaks/buffs to Woby, so that there's more reasons to continue using her, instead of just taming a beefalo later on. Also, a comically big slingshot would be hilarious and should definitely be a thing. 

The Slingshot and Woby are connected quite well. Buuuut they do directly un-synergize with Walter's Fearless perk. Yes, they keep you from getting hit IE loosing sanity. But Walter's also completely immune to insanity auras. So if you're good at kiting, then you'd loose a lot less sanity as Walter than any other character. Something that doesn't matter, because he has the slingshot anyways.

[Lardee]

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Nah i disagree, Walter needs a giant slingshot (carried like a statue) that requires him to be mounted on Woby to use. Give it more damage and AoE abilities. Goes with the theme that its both woby and walter vs the world of the constant and makes it so the slingshot and woby arnt just random separate perks.

That's another cool idea too.  A catapult that Walter can mount on Wobby.  I'm just thinking that a rapidfire slingshot is something that would be really easy for Klei to implement and would solve a lot of the issues with Walter and the low DPS of his slingshot.

[ShadowDuelist]

I always thought that it would be cool , and to further differentiate Woby from the beefalos, if she could carry another player besides Walter. Woby is far easier to use and keep than a beefalo, specially for new players.
Walter with big Woby could give a lift to other players (so they can jump as passengers, not command Woby)

[flamboyant wolf]

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I always thought that it would be cool , and to further differentiate Woby from the beefalos, if she could carry another player besides Walter. Woby is far easier to use and keep than a beefalo, specially for new players.
Walter with big Woby could give a lift to other players (so they can jump as passengers, not command Woby)

That would be really cool! I think at least a few people who use Woby/beefalos can relate to having to wait for people at some place (like a raid boss spawner), cause you arrived sooner.

Also, while we're talking about Woby, I think it'd be pretty nice if her max hunger got raised to, like, 75-80(currently 50). Considering her speed depends on her hunger, it's pretty hard to keep her at max speed with current max hunger(she has max speed starting from 35 hunger, and looses 20 points of hunger per day, so with 50 max points you need to feed her monster meat every ~6 minutes for best results. It's fine, I suppose, but would just be nicer if you had some more time between Woby having max hunger and getting to lower speed level) 

Oh, and also it'd be a nice QoL if Walter could determine Woby's hunger a bit more precisely, for the same reasons as I mentioned before. 

[DVGMedia]

you know with the poop shots I always kind of wondered if you could just stunlock an enemy like say a worm or bishop with them.  While friendly followers attack the enemy.

[Gashzer]

27 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

you know with the poop shots I always kind of wondered if you could just stunlock an enemy like say a worm or bishop with them.  While friendly followers attack the enemy.

Yeah you could, but bishops are usually accompanied by follower-killer rooks sadly..

 

6 hours ago, Lardee said:

That's another cool idea too.  A catapult that Walter can mount on Wobby.  I'm just thinking that a rapidfire slingshot is something that would be really easy for Klei to implement and would solve a lot of the issues with Walter and the low DPS of his slingshot.

Rapid fire slingshot would be awesome... but wayyy too op. The only thing stopping the current slingshot from being op is that its hard to amass marble/thulecite rounds. A faster firing slingshot could use gold rounds instead as its main damage round and every boss in the game would become trivial...

If the rapid slingshot was a thulecite craft with 600uses then that would balance it abit.

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Rapid fire slingshot would be awesome... but wayyy too op. The only thing stopping the current slingshot from being op is that its hard to amass marble/thulecite rounds. A faster firing slingshot could use gold rounds instead as its main damage round and every boss in the game would become trivial...

If the rapid slingshot was a thulecite craft with 600uses then that would balance it abit.

I agree that a rapid fire slingshot would be op unless it was limited to cc rounds but disagree that the damage output of the slingshot is ok I'm still of the opinion that the route we should go is increasing the damage of the slingshot overall rather than the speed even if we need a ruins slingshot to do it but it shouldn't have durability.  Walter's already got too many resources to juggle.

The more I've considered it there's always the argument that the slingshot shouldn't be on par with melee but really think about it when compared to other characters. Wendy's melee penalty is bypassed by Abigail's buff to be a advantage. Webber,  Maxwell and Wurt get no melee penalty. Would Walter really  break anything compared to what other characters with their "ranged" weapons if it's only damage andnot speed?