Why are there shadow weapons that wandas dmg doesnt work on ?

[Malfario]

Wanda gets a 1,75 dmg multipier with shadow weapons, maxwell can buff his duelist with the same so called shadow equipement.

Specifically the weapons that maxwell can use to boost the dueslist are:

the darksword

The bat bat

The shield of terror

The thulecite club

Only the darksword gets aplied the dmg multiplier of wanda and i think it feels a bit weird, hope on future hotfixes after the holidays her dmg gets aplied on this other weapons.

i think its not necesary to say that non of this make wanda more powerfull than she already is, she cant use the bat bat main ability, she only benefits from protection of the shield in old form, but she still needs to wear something to rise up the protection to 90-95% at which point its better to use the alarming clock, and the club, as usual, loose against the sword or the clock

The goal of asking for this change is only for the saque of the continuity of the label "shadow weapons"

[ShadowDuelist]

I get where you are going, but I think Wanda currently sits at a dramatically OP decent spot and she really doesn't need more "shadow" perks.

Perhaps the old Wanda only researched dark swords and night armor. The current status also goes well with the fact that Maxwell IS the true king of shadow thingies, so it is understandable that he makes more of those things over Wanda who, got good at some shadow magic usage through her life, but not great at all there is to it.

If they ever decide to expand Wanda I'd explore the "time witch" side of her, instead of keep boosting her combat skills.

 

[dois raios]

this would be just a fun fact, because alarming clock deals more damage than this weapons, never saw an wanda using other weapon besides alarming clock (except when wanda got released)

[Tranoze]

26 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

she really doesn't need more "shadow" perks.
Maxwell IS the true king of shadow thingies,

It is not more perk, it just update her original perk to work consistently which it's description. Probably you wont see wanda use any shadow weapon other than her clock even this change happened.
*WAS. He no longer sit on the throne, the iron shadow throne has queen now.

[Cheggf]

Agreed. It wouldn't affect much because her whip is op and the bat bat can't even heal her. Would mostly just be lore/consistency with at best maybe some use with the shield. 

[MadMatt]

Maybe because a Dark Sword is made of almost pure fuel as opposed to the other weapons mentioned. She can manipulate and wield fuel effectively but not something that just has fuel associated with it like the Club or Shield? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

even if they count as fuel imbued weapons anybody will use them because AC has utility and the higher damage removing any illusion of choice. I will never understand why it does more damage than dark sword when already lets you hit more times before needing to kite

[Echsrick]

i realy do wish wanda was not about shadows and stuff, it feels like something maxwell fits more with then suddenly random time traveller that just so to happen to do shadow stuff and somehow is stronger using it then someone who spendet a life time on the nightmare throne

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

i realy do wish wanda was not about shadows and stuff, it feels like something maxwell fits more with then suddenly random time traveller that just so to happen to do shadow stuff and somehow is stronger using it then someone who spendet a life time on the nightmare throne

Tbf it makes more sense that Wanda would be better at shadow magic than Maxwell as she's clearly spent a long time studying shadow magic most likely even longer than Maxwell and in Maxwell's case his only way to study shadow magic seems to come from the codex umbra which may not even include all aspects of shadow magic considering it was given purely to entice him. I feel like empowering other shadow equipment on Wanda makes sense even if people realisticaly aren't going to use them. 

I know we like to hype up Maxwell's accomplishments but at the end of the day he was always a puppet king placed on the throne by a higher power who took advantage of his lack of knowledge in shadow magic.

[Frashaw27]

13 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Tbf it makes more sense that Wanda would be better at shadow magic than Maxwell as she's clearly spent a long time studying shadow magic most likely even longer than Maxwell and in Maxwell's case his only way to study shadow magic seems to come from the codex umbra which may not even include all aspects of shadow magic considering it was given purely to entice him.

I never really understood this argument honestly. We don't really have any evidence that she's more proficient at using shadow magic besides the sanity drain negations of the Dark Sword and Night Amor (which only happens at old age and that Maxwell also has just always) and the damage boost in the Alarming Clock and Dark Sword. While she does do more damage with those weapons, that's really it when it comes to showcases of fuel manipulation, especially when compared to Maxwell. You could maybe make an argument of her  not getting drained as much from using sanity draining magic, but that doesn't really showcase proficiency in the dark arts and more like she's getting a resilience to the negative effects instead. It's in the same way I wouldn't call an alcoholic proficient in drinking because they take more drinks to get drunk.

Now let's compare this to the things Maxwell can do. He can use a tophat and box as a makeshift portal to a seperate realm for him to store his junk, just by giving it a small amount of nightmare fuel, the same realm that can only be accessed by others by imbuing a magical creature with 4.5x the amount of fuel and only when the moon allows it to happen. By using the Codex Umbra, he can twist very small amounts of fuel into making clones of himself, making a snare that makes even creatures that don't properly have minds (like the Clockworks in the Ruins) to start panicking, and a prison that entraps even the strongest of the Moon's servants (the Celestial Champion) and one of shadow's strongest assets (the Ancient Fuelweaver). He can summon puppets of himself both do meaningless chores and to fight for him. The latter of the two can even get stronger as Maxwell actively draws from all different kinds of Shadow Related equipment like the Bone Armor, Lazy Explorer, and even the damn Premier Gardeneer Hat instead of just 2 specific equipments.

I do understand Wanda being more proficient in the Shadow Arts when compared to someone like Wilson, but I honestly don't see it when compared to Maxwell. Maxwell actively manipulates the fuel to do a variety of things and actively draws power from fuel related things, I just don't see how Wanda can actively be better at all shadow magic compared to Maxwell when he can do so much compared to her with the fuel. You could argue that the reason he's able to do half of this is because of his Codex, and you would be right, but I also don't see how that's a point against him. If we look at what Wanda can do without her clocks, she still barely has an relations to general shadow magic. While I would be able to compromise in saying that she is better in a specific area of shadow magic when compared to Maxwell, like say channeling damage into a weapon, I don't see how see is just generally better.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

I never really understood this argument honestly. We don't really have any evidence that she's more proficient at using shadow magic besides the sanity drain negations of the Dark Sword and Night Amor (which only happens at old age and that Maxwell also has just always) and the damage boost in the Alarming Clock and Dark Sword. While she does do more damage with those weapons, that's really it when it comes to showcases of fuel manipulation, especially when compared to Maxwell. You could maybe make an argument of her  not getting drained as much from using sanity draining magic, but that doesn't really showcase proficiency in the dark arts and more like she's getting a resilience to the negative effects instead. It's in the same way I wouldn't call an alcoholic proficient in drinking because they take more drinks to get drunk.

I base my argument more so on the fact she creates her own specialized tools from shadow magic that seems to imply a deeper understanding and not based on pre established magic which seemed to be listed in the codex umbra considering the magic recipe we did see when Maxwell was studying it. Based on the things we do know Wanda seems to have lived out her natural life and even cheated the creatures of the constant in some way using her devices.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

Now let's compare this to the things Maxwell can do. He can use a tophat and box as a makeshift portal to a seperate realm for him to store his junk, just by giving it a small amount of nightmare fuel, the same realm that can only be accessed by others by imbuing a magical creature with 4.5x the amount of fuel and only when the moon allows it to happen. By using the Codex Umbra, he can twist very small amounts of fuel into making clones of himself, making a snare that makes even creatures that don't properly have minds (like the Clockworks in the Ruins) to start panicking, and a prison that entraps even the strongest of the Moon's servants (the Celestial Champion) and one of shadow's strongest assets (the Ancient Fuelweaver). He can summon puppets of himself both do meaningless chores and to fight for him. The latter of the two can even get stronger as Maxwell actively draws from all different kinds of Shadow Related equipment like the Bone Armor, Lazy Explorer, and even the damn Premier Gardeneer Hat instead of just 2 specific equipments.

Keep in mind some of the newer things he can do are specifically because Charlie gave him the ability to do so. Which would mean the extent of his abilities would be making shadow clones(seemingly a inherent ability of the codex) and empowering his clones via magical items(Which I want to believe is probably his own idea via experimentation). Don't get me wrong I agree he's probably fairly knowledgeable in magic at this point but he has nothing to prove his mastery of magic he just has a spell book given to him which was then powered up by making a deal with Charlie giving him access to new abilities

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

I do understand Wanda being more proficient in the Shadow Arts when compared to someone like Wilson, but I honestly don't see it when compared to Maxwell. Maxwell actively manipulates the fuel to do a variety of things and actively draws power from fuel related things, I just don't see how Wanda can actively be better at all shadow magic compared to Maxwell when he can do so much compared to her with the fuel. You could argue that the reason he's able to do half of this is because of his Codex, and you would be right, but I also don't see how that's a point against him. If we look at what Wanda can do without her clocks, she still barely has an relations to general shadow magic. While I would be able to compromise in saying that she is better in a specific area of shadow magic when compared to Maxwell, like say channeling damage into a weapon, I don't see how see is just generally better.

This is the opposite in my opinion Maxwell is less manipulating fuel and more so just feeding his book he even says it craves fuel. While Wanda on the other hand is converting the fuel into various devices that manipulate time and space. Another way to look at it could be Maxwell is proficient at wielding shadow magic while Wanda has a deeper understanding of shadow magic.

[Cheggf]

Tbh the book & throne have done everything for Maxwell. As far as we know he doesn't actually understand magic any more than the rest do and he just says mysterious vague things insinuating he knows a lot because he thinks it makes him look cool. Or maybe while he was on the throne the shadows gave him some Fisher Price toys designed to teach the basics of magic.

[LiamAshvinn001]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:10 PM, Cheggf said:

As far as we know he doesn't actually understand magic any more than the rest do 

In defense of Maxwell the animated short showed Maxwell actively studying the Codex and he spent time actively practicing magic before he was on the Throne, like how he mentions doing a ritual.

[Cheggf]

10 hours ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

In defense of Maxwell the animated short showed Maxwell actively studying the Codex and he spent time actively practicing magic before he was on the Throne, like how he mentions doing a ritual.

Maybe that's just Shadow Propaganda made to misinform the masses. They could have agents inside Klei, we don't know how deep this goes.

[Malfario]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:21 PM, Cheggf said:

Maybe that's just Shadow Propaganda made to misinform the masses. They could have agents inside Klei, we don't know how deep this goes.

finally an answer with the seriousness i like to see on this forum

 

[Atkvin]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:00 PM, Mysterious box said:

Based on the things we do know Wanda seems to have lived out her natural life and even cheated the creatures of the constant in some way using her devices.

My memory is hazy, but doesn't Wanda have a line implying she made a deal with Them that she cheated in order to attain her powers/tech?

Regardless, I think people are justifiably a little bewildered and unhappy when a character with as much importance to the plot as she is made out to be has just been thrown in with no former buildup, and has never since been shown to be relevant to the plot of the universe - yet eclipses the far more familiar and compelling character of Maxwell in manipulating shadow arts.

I've brought this up several times, but having seen glimpses of Charlie's motivations, if Wanda is to be taken as a canon character in DST - both Them, and by extension, Charlie should be far more motivated to snuff out/antagonize Wanda who actually flaunts her bold getaway in cheating Them of some power, whereas to my understanding Maxwell's greatest crime was just resisting Their control and then made a scapegoat to turn Charlie against him.