Wortox Needs MORE!!!

[Dextops]

11 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Wortox absolutely does not need more hunger from souls and sanity from dropping souls. Those are changes that only serve to negate his downside and make him less interesting to play.

I’d say he needs more hunger from souls his downside is one of the worst in the game and it doesn’t add anything to his gameplay 

 

12 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Long distance teleporting could be kept in to make him more fun, but in its current form where you can save a day's worth of travel by killing a hive or two of killer bees I wouldn't add it. It should take the souls of rare powerful monsters like bosses in order to use the teleport, which would add to his mid and endgame playstyles and make teleporting require more strategy.

That’d be a horrible idea. First off it isn’t even op and all of his past perks before this qol were basically useless. He used to be one of the worst characters and if anything he still needs a buff 

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

Aside from his healing there is literally one power he has and it's his teleports. And again, if you are experienced enough to not use any healing, why are you not playing Wanda at that point?

Because the amount of people who are on day 3000 worlds is next to 0.

[Mike23Ua]

15 minutes ago, Dextops said:

I’d say he needs more hunger from souls his downside is one of the worst in the game and it doesn’t add anything to his gameplay 

 

That’d be a horrible idea. First off it isn’t even op and all of his past perks before this qol were basically useless. He used to be one of the worst characters and if anything he still needs a buff 

Actually long distance teleportation is pretty OP (hence why people make such a huge commotion over it..) AND depending on what future content plans Klei has for the game.. could be potentially game breaking.

Not in the sense of making Wortox himself OP.. but in the sense that he can go to and from areas Klei expects you to traverse through different methods…

for example- if they rework the caves server shard and put the ancient library, lunar grotto and ruins on different levels of the caves (but all in the same shard just far enough apart from one another that you can’t visibly see them while traveling the map) Wortox could effectively skip from floor 1 to floor 9 and back again.

Cutting the range in which he teleports in half does two things- both on the surface shard AND the Caves Shard.. if Klei puts enough water (surface) or empty space (cave) between a patch of land so that Wortox can not just soul hop across the ocean.. he wouldn’t be able to soul hop to islands that are out of his teleportation range without maybe some creative extra effort required (such as a boat/dock platform in the water between the distance of his reduced hop and to the island so the first hop takes him to the boat/dock and the second hop takes him to the island.. it still consumes roughly the same amount of souls.

This trick only works on SURFACE Shards however.. down in Caves Wortox can not place boats or docks to soul hop to and get across the empty void..

I’m not sure about on PC but on XBOX Wortox can not soul hop anywhere that there isn’t a piece of land/boat to soul hop to (meaning I can’t go for a nice swim by just soul hopping into the ocean or committing Suicide in a cave by diving into the void)

[ApoIIo]

46 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Personally, I feel like basically the entire cast is waaaaaay too powerful at the moment. Remember when Wilson was the "Balanced" character? No downsides, and a slightly useful upside. In single player DS, Wilson was actually decently powerful compared to the rest of the cast (even though the cast had a few OP outliers)

 Klei's design philosophy has shifted since then, and now the average characters balance is some extremely powerful and impactful upsides, and then downsides that are extremely easy to deal with. 

Wortox absolutely does not need more hunger from souls and sanity from dropping souls. Those are changes that only serve to negate his downside and make him less interesting to play.

Long distance teleporting could be kept in to make him more fun, but in its current form where you can save a day's worth of travel by killing a hive or two of killer bees I wouldn't add it. It should take the souls of rare powerful monsters like bosses in order to use the teleport, which would add to his mid and endgame playstyles and make teleporting require more strategy.

If people think Wortox needs a buff because he's "not interesting" how the heck is Klei supposed to rework Wilson? Any efforts to make him more complex or to give him big perks would alter his simple design significantly, but because everyone else been given nothing but buffs for years, the appeal of "no downsides" just isn't good enough anymore.

My brother in Them you suggested getting to do a map teleport once every 20 days with another 15 with bee queen :/

Such a nerf wouldn't balance anything out, it'd just remove this update from history because that's literally such a downgrade over walking, omg. No amount of strategy could make something like that any less useless.

Wortox absolutely needs his soul hop to stay as it is if he is to be any faster than Wilson with legs. Perks are supposed to offer a better alternative to something that anyone can do. And I didn't even mention beefalo taming yet. (Literal petals for non-day restricted x2 speed! 1k health, damage and regen! Then suddenly it even stops costing petals! How is that not O-pee!)

The entire cast is powerful. They will only continue to get better. The skill floor is underground and the community in particular needs all the newbie-friendliness that DS didn't offer- A very typical policy for a growing multiplayer game. And its whole intention is to make things more fun for everyone, so who cares if X makes Y task easier? Does it bite us?

 

Play Wilson if it does.

[Dextops]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually long distance teleportation is pretty OP (hence why people make such a huge commotion over it..) AND depending on what future content plans Klei has for the game.. could be potentially game breaking.

Currently I’m pretty sure that the amount of souls regularly is equal to the distance you’d be traveling anyway. This basically means all you’re really doing is saving a few button presses and animations. This is also later outclassed by Wanda. Wortox was previously a dogshit character and with this ability I think it should be buffed back to its previous state because as it is it is costly and outclassed in late game

 

21 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

for example- if they rework the caves server shard and put the ancient library, lunar grotto and ruins on different levels of the caves (but all in the same shard just far enough apart from one another that you can’t visibly see them while traveling the map) Wortox could effectively skip from floor 1 to floor 9 and back again.

Except this isn’t how it works and I don’t think it will ever work like this so no point in what if’s 

 

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Cutting the range in which he teleports in half does two things

You’re right it does do two things

it make this ability entirely useless and it reverts wortox to his previous horrible state with the only major buff he has being the double soul hop ability 

[Mysterious box]

41 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Wortox absolutely does not need more hunger from souls and sanity from dropping souls. Those are changes that only serve to negate his downside and make him less interesting to play.

Not really if your primarily using souls for food and sanity you have to stop to kill more things to make use of his travel perks it's still a good balance as Wortox players who perfer to mainly use souls for travel will still use actual food if they value their time.

 

44 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Personally, I feel like basically the entire cast is waaaaaay too powerful at the moment. Remember when Wilson was the "Balanced" character? No downsides, and a slightly useful upside. In single player DS, Wilson was actually decently powerful compared to the rest of the cast (even though the cast had a few OP outliers)

This ship sailed all the way back in the Wendy refresh I think it's too late to worry about it now.

 

49 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

Wortox absolutely does not need more hunger from souls and sanity from dropping souls. Those are changes that only serve to negate his downside and make him less interesting to play.

This has always been a nothing downside to more experienced players even more so when you get a tamo effectively making the cost of eatting souls non existent so this change only really helps less experienced players I don't see it as a problem even more so with the game catering more so to more casual players in the past few years.

 

53 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

ong distance teleporting could be kept in to make him more fun, but in its current form where you can save a day's worth of travel by killing a hive or two of killer bees I wouldn't add it. It should take the souls of rare powerful monsters like bosses in order to use the teleport, which would add to his mid and endgame playstyles and make teleporting require more strategy.

No it wouldn't if you had to kill bosses to fast travel I think most people would just walk or just use Wanda you need to consider the time investment involved in killing a boss vs just going to where you need to go.

 

57 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

If people think Wortox needs a buff because he's "not interesting" how the heck is Klei supposed to rework Wilson? Any efforts to make him more complex or to give him big perks would alter his simple design significantly, but because everyone else been given nothing but buffs for years, the appeal of "no downsides" just isn't good enough anymore

Just because he's never had perks beyond his beard doesn't mean he needs to stay that way the game has changed almost completely from where it started I don't see why he needs to be stuck in the past Kiel could go back and add more impactful downsides sure but sadly that doesn't appeal to the majority of the player base and you don't make successful games by mainly focusing on the few of your player base even I hate to admit it.

[ApoIIo]

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually long distance teleportation is pretty OP (hence why people make such a huge commotion over it..) AND depending on what future content plans Klei has for the game.. could be potentially game breaking.

Not in the sense of making Wortox himself OP.. but in the sense that he can go to and from areas Klei expects you to traverse through different methods…

for example- if they rework the caves server shard and put the ancient library, lunar grotto and ruins on different levels of the caves (but all in the same shard just far enough apart from one another that you can’t visibly see them while traveling the map) Wortox could effectively skip from floor 1 to floor 9 and back again.

Cutting the range in which he teleports in half does two things- both on the surface shard AND the Caves Shard.. if Klei puts enough water (surface) or empty space (cave) between a patch of land so that Wortox can not just soul hop across the ocean.. he wouldn’t be able to soul hop to islands that are out of his teleportation range without maybe some creative extra effort required (such as a boat/dock platform in the water between the distance of his reduced hop and to the island so the first hop takes him to the boat/dock and the second hop takes him to the island.. it still consumes roughly the same amount of souls.

This trick only works on SURFACE Shards however.. down in Caves Wortox can not place boats or docks to soul hop to and get across the empty void..

I’m not sure about on PC but on XBOX Wortox can not soul hop anywhere that there isn’t a piece of land/boat to soul hop to (meaning I can’t go for a nice swim by just soul hopping into the ocean or committing Suicide in a cave by diving into the void)

I assure you the game designers at Klei are no goons and would not overlook an enormous progress skip. (that is, if it actually ever came to be a thing.)

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually long distance teleportation is pretty OP (hence why people make such a huge commotion over it..) AND depending on what future content plans Klei has for the game.. could be potentially game breaking.

Not in the sense of making Wortox himself OP.. but in the sense that he can go to and from areas Klei expects you to traverse through different methods…

for example- if they rework the caves server shard and put the ancient library, lunar grotto and ruins on different levels of the caves (but all in the same shard just far enough apart from one another that you can’t visibly see them while traveling the map) Wortox could effectively skip from floor 1 to floor 9 and back again.

What about Wanda though her watch goes thru shards and her warping refuels on it's own I know people like to act like the early game is the only thing that exists but Wanda's method is still vastly superior once it gets going.

[Mike23Ua]

32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

What about Wanda though her watch goes thru shards and her warping refuels on it's own I know people like to act like the early game is the only thing that exists but Wanda's method is still vastly superior once it gets going.

Yes Wanda is indeed OP.. but, Wanda is the fun kind of OP which requires work and progression to accomplish, Meanwhile Wortox’s Soul System does not.. and to be honest I have absolutely no idea how Klei can rework him to be more fun and I guess you can say “In-Depth” to still have his Power, but make it feel earned.

Ive suggested a few ideas like needing to get larger stronger souls from more then just a tiny butterfly, like sort of an Essence of Energy.. but even that is pretty Mediocre- as someone who throughly enjoys playing A LOT of Wortox I would love a deeper connection to His Fawn & Imp nature- while I have no idea what that would be.. I think Maybe Krampii could grant Soul Essence of something.

He needs to be a little more complex is all I’m saying, but make him feel unique & his power rewarding- And smacking a few butterflies to me does not feel rewarding..

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes Wanda is indeed OP.. but, Wanda is the fun kind of OP which requires work and progression to accomplish, Meanwhile Wortox’s Soul System does not..

It doesn't require progression because you have to actively work to use it vs Wanda's whose works passively it's the perfect contrast in my opinion.

 

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Ive suggested a few ideas like needing to get larger stronger souls from more then just a tiny butterfly, like sort of an Essence of Energy.. but even that is pretty Mediocre- as someone who throughly enjoys playing A LOT of Wortox I would love a deeper connection to His Fawn & Imp nature- while I have no idea what that would be.. I think Maybe Krampii could grant Soul Essence of something.

He needs to be a little more complex is all I’m saying, but make him feel unique & his power rewarding- And smacking a few butterflies to me does not feel rewarding..

I feel like overcomplicating souls would just make a character who already felt lacking compared to most of the cast feel even worse Wortox starts strong but fell off hard before the beta changes fast travel is your reason to keep sticking with him into the end game.

[_Ellat_]

9 hours ago, Siegmund said:

Yes, yes, very powerful tool for babysitting people who never wear armor and take more damage than butterfly wings can overturn. ( Ignoring that Wanda is the better babysitter now )
You're playing with people who know that armor exists? Too bad, you're fat wilson with an useless slower-than-walking teleport now. Don't even bring up jumping across gaps, that's too small to matter.

Do you know what else can heal so big on day 1? Blue caps. Kill bosses, rush ruins, there's more than you can care about. If you need a ton of heals also dig green caps, it's not like shovels are expensive(Wilson with shovel OP?!). And oh, of course them not growing back doesn't matter: There's way too many for a person on solo and bee queen gets swallowed whole in a multiplayer setting by people holding F and losing like one whole football helmet each, maybe less. Oh, and for continuity's sake in multiplayer...

Now let's look at our superior healing options. Wickerbottom and Winona can set up farms to kill Bee Queen on cooldown, getting between 2.880hp to 3.000hp perfectly portable, nonspoiling hp on top of bundlewrap blueprints for everyone. Even the most severe idiot can operate them. Not to mention those two have a ton of other perks. This alone is so ridiculously overkill in solo that you end up tanking freezing/overheating out of boredom. In multiplayer it is more than sufficient, but that's assuming 5-6 people don't have even one farmer among them.

Speaking of farming. Did you know that a clever, optimal wormwood can farm up heals equivalent to a couple hundred souls with the side of all your hunger problems for the next 1k days in less than half a spring? No need for that level of cleverness, either, every server has a Wormwood spamming potato/tomato these days. Even if there isn't one, everything else I'm listing is more than enough.

Before I forget... Bat bat is hilarious. Build two bunny hutches next to an open sinkhole unfortunately close to your base and you're supplied unspoiling 510 hp tools by just picking up the wings that drop AND unpaid pest control (and a lot of guano if you're into that for some reason). That's 25.5 souls. The only actual cost is a purple gem but those become useless fast if you aren't Wanda in a group.

With healing being this much of a joke, extremely easy sources being hidden in plain sight (blue caps/bwings) or being comically easy to amass hundreds of stacks of souls' worth(jellybeans/bat bat), Wortox as he is is not relevant no matter how you look at it. The other sources aren't tied to a character, are more portable than the Wortox friend you cannot really fit in your pocket and just way more than enough. (Unless you're really, REALLY all about the no-armor life, then go nuts I guess.)

if you have ping issues then yeah he's ping friendly but even then wigfrid is much better at that. 

Hm yes perhaps blue caps should be removed too. Seriously though I guess I have changed my mind perhaps wortox is not as op as people claim him to be. Since blue caps exist I guess.

[Bumber64]

Wortox should gain sanity from pranking players and mobs.

[cybers2001]

21 hours ago, _Ellat_ said:

No experienced player picks wortox because they struggle with health they pick wortox to make the game a cakewalk.

You're literally the only guy with more than 1k hours in this game that I've ever heard say this, lol. There's a reason he's not a meta character.

I'd say he's maybe C tier right now, and B+ tier with the buffs.

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes Wanda is indeed OP.. but, Wanda is the fun kind of OP which requires work and progression to accomplish, Meanwhile Wortox’s Soul System does not..

The trade-off of Wortox's strong early game exploration is that you're stuck playing Wortox until you upgrade the Celestial Portal. Meanwhile I can just start as Wolfgang as I normally would and solo most of the bosses before the orb even drops.  

And to be honest, if I really value map exploration that much early game, I would still pick Woodie over Wortox. Wortox can only map hop to where he's already been, which means he can't discover any islands without using boats.

 

[_Ellat_]

2 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

You're literally the only guy with more than 1k hours in this game that I've ever heard say this, lol. There's a reason he's not a meta character.

I'd say he's maybe C tier right now, and B+ tier with the buffs.

The trade-off of Wortox's strong early game exploration is that you're stuck playing Wortox until you upgrade the Celestial Portal. Meanwhile I can just start as Wolfgang as I normally would and solo most of the bosses before the orb even drops.  

And to be honest, if I really value map exploration that much early game, I would still pick Woodie over Wortox. Wortox can only map hop to where he's already been, which means he can't discover any islands without using boats.

 

No

[Mike23Ua]

14 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't require progression because you have to actively work to use it vs Wanda's whose works passively it's the perfect contrast in my opinion.

 

I feel like overcomplicating souls would just make a character who already felt lacking compared to most of the cast feel even worse Wortox starts strong but fell off hard before the beta changes fast travel is your reason to keep sticking with him into the end game.

I wouldn’t call it overcomplicating.. more like uhm adding more depth to his character.. as it stands right now he’s what Wolfgang used to be before his rework: a One Trick Pony.. which means that he suffers the same problems pre-rework Wolfgang had- Wolfgang only needed to eat to become strong and run fast: but once Wolfgang got his rework some things were buffed, some removed and getting “Mighty” now requires a little more then just stuffing his face with foods. And while being mighty he can do various things he couldn’t before: such as yank up masts and anchors with strength or mine/chop faster, or carry heavy objects without movement penalty.

Wortox on the other hand kills any mob regardless of the mobs size, or witnesses a mob (or other player die) and souls float right to him for Healing, Food and Teleportation Purposes- Effectively putting him in the same boat as Pre-Rework Wolfgang of only needing to do one thing to gain all his power.

And I absolutely hate it, as someone who plays a lot of Wortox.. it drives me insane to see him not be as in-depth or fun as other reworks.. it leaves him feeling bland & highly basic..

I have no suggestions on how to improve it but I’d really like to see his “doesn’t want to hurt things but is forced to” & Fawn/Impish traits in gameplay.

[ApoIIo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wouldn’t call it overcomplicating.. more like uhm adding more depth to his character.. as it stands right now he’s what Wolfgang used to be before his rework: a One Trick Pony.. which means suffers the same problems pre-rework Wolfgang had- Wolfgang only needed to eat to become strong and run fast: but once Wolfgang got his rework some things were buffed, some removed and getting “Mighty” now requires a little more then just stuffing his face with foods.

Wortox on the other hand kills any mob regardless of the mobs size, or witnesses a mob (or other player die) and souls float right to him for Healing, Food and Teleportation Purposes- Effectively putting him in the same boat as Pre-Rework Wolfgang of only needing to do one thing to gain all his power.

And I absolutely hate it, as someone who plays a lot of Wortox.. it drives me insane to see him not be as in-depth or fun as other reworks.. it leaves him feeling bland & highly basic..

I have no suggestions on how to improve it but I’d really like to see his “doesn’t want to hurt things but is forced to” & Fawn/Impish traits in gameplay.

But Wolfgang was simplified to death lol, rightclicking on a dumbbell and watching the screen for a couple seconds is much, much less work than food management. You no longer have to weight out whether stuffing your face is worth it, there ain't a cost. Oldgang really only rewarded people who hoard food because "farming fun", otherwise he was mid af- The new gang is so much stronger yet so bland with an easily sustainable x2.

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, _Ellat_ said:

No

Then tell me what you struggle with, buddy. I'll explain how it can be done better with another character. I have over 3k hours in this game, myself.

[Bumber64]

What I want to know is... When is Klei going to make Wortox accurate to his lore and allow him to 1-shot any living creature using his fists?

[cybers2001]

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

What I want to know is... When is Klei going to make Wortox accurate to his lore and allow him to 1-shot any living creature using his fists?

I know you joke, but that actually gives me an idea. Imagine if Wortox can steal an ability from some enemies for a short time, like maybe if he fights deerclops, he can gain his aoe ice attack for a short period.

[Cheggf]

19 hours ago, Siegmund said:

Play Wilson if it does.

I really hope we can and Klei doesn't make him super strong in his rework like people keep asking for. 

[Mysterious box]

14 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I really hope we can and Klei doesn't make him super strong in his rework like people keep asking for. 

Don't worry Wilson will only have 2 celestial champions as followers not 3 Kiel knows restraint you know.

[ApoIIo]

40 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I really hope we can and Klei doesn't make him super strong in his rework like people keep asking for. 

Fourth stage of beard for t3 insulation and two extra hairs, accessed after spending 200 days on third stage beard. Take it or leave it.

[chincer]

wortox have very strong downsides that discourage him to eat food because it just isnt effective

the healing aspect of his souls is "nice" but it isnt game changing in a world where pierogi exist and is to easy to make

and in a world where wanda have a much stronger weapon and teleport, and wendy can AFK farm spiders and butterflies i dont see wortox being at all OP

 

the point of the change is not to make wortox OP, the point is to make him fun to play, i like to play walter sometimes even if he kinda sucks compare to other characters, it is all about having fun

[Copyafriend]

38 minutes ago, chincer said:

wendy can AFK farm spiders and butterflies

You mean where any character can afk farm spiders and butterflies? Literally the easiest farms that exist

[_Ellat_]

9 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Then tell me what you struggle with, buddy. I'll explain how it can be done better with another character. I have over 3k hours in this game, myself.

I don't