Poll: What changes would you like to see for Wanda, if any?

[Rafi.]

Spoiler

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't believe that you could really do a full boss run without taking 1 hit, to me it is never worth focusing that much on not taking damage, i can pretty often kill some bosses like dragonfly without taking any hits but there is not much difference in taking 2-3 hits or not if you can just survive 1 hit and heal which every other character is able to do.

Ping and bugs obviously shouldn't be the main reason why some changes happen but you can't just ignore this, also i am sure majority of the players aren't focused so much over the course of many hours of playing, you will have a moment when you may die if you don't have any armor just because you didn't look at your screen at the right time. 

I could show you if you want ! But, ultimately that wouldn't even prove any good point to what I think should be done. And of course you can't ignore the fact that people have ping, I agree with you on that, but, you can't balance around the idea that maybe somewhere someone has 289 ping on a server and that wouldn't be fair for him, there's a need to have a limit. And yes, you might die because you're not focused on the game for some seconds, that's sad, but I don't think that feels unfair, there's plenty of time where you don't actively have to look at something while playing, but sometimes the game ask you to focus, and I never felt that it was unfair if I died because I switched tab or looked at someone speaking next to me.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Her downside is one of the most difficult to deal with in the game, while she has very strong abilities that make her stand out even with such a downside, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I don't think that she needs any downside or new watches, if she needed a nerf as much as people say, just remove second chance watch and maybe backstep watch, while i use it pretty often against bosses i wear night armor so i can take some damage.

She loses 30hp/day and can restore 80hp/day with a single watch, you have 50 hp of healing that isn't eaten by her aging, and that with a single watch. You'll die most of the time due to taking hits and not actually natural aging. Not being able to chug pierogies sure is an effective downside, you're not supposed to tank as well as a Wigfrid or a Wortox, but you're still very tanky, if you just add one watch, you go from 50hp to heal a day to 130, and making three to four watches is very easy early on. (I will just mention the fact that once made, the watches makes you not have to spend time gathering healing food.)

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

She is already very greedy when it comes to MacTusks, now if she also needed a few bone armors, how good would she be in multiplayer? When would she even be able to get everything she needs to be strong in a 6-10 player server? DST is made for multiplayer, she shouldn't require bone armors to be effective when she already needs so many tusks for backtrek watches.

If she couldn't use armor she would be one of the worst characters even if you gave her a clock like thulecite crown, unless it was automatic it wouldn't matter and you'd also need more time pieces to start with to be able to craft it, if you join a server late and go to ruins and see there is no thulecite left, what do you do?

Bone armors are not required to have a decent late game with any character, you should have alot of heal, and other armors such as helmets and crowns during lategame, you should be able to lend your Wanda two bone armors no ? Especially knowing that getting 2 bone armors is faster than getting enough tusks for Wanda to have fast travel almost everywhere. She wouldn't require bone armor to be effective, I agree of course, but she would be at that point, the best late game character, and that's why a new watch could be useful for early, mid and still usable during late game, making her playable early on,  while being in line with other characters and slightly less powerful than early game oriented characters.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

is so very situational,i've used it quite a few times over the course of like hundreds of hours i played Wanda but it isn't as useful as much as you think. If you are in a fight, you usually wouldn't have time to use ageless watch to save yourself from the damage that you would take.

Worth noting that this would be useless if you couldn't use armor since you would take so much damage from bosses that using ageless watch to cancel some of the damage wouldn't matter as it wouldn't be enough.

Also why are you talking as if dying matters in this game? With how situational this is, it doesn't matter at all, it is just a nice bonus thing that feels really good when you manage to pull it off in a boss fight but life giving amulets exist and if you are careful you can play solo and never lose your world. I easily amass over 40 red gems on her, killing dragonfly on respawn, clearing ruins, i can revive as much as i want.

When it comes to Wolfgang and Wanda, i agree that Wanda is in a better spot because of her utility, but you really don't have many reasons to pick her to start over him, he can pretty much do the same when it comes to bosses and you can just swap to Wanda later while you can feel safe and use the full power of Wolfgang before you amass time pieces.

I use that "technique" relatively frequently, but it's used at it's best with slow attacking mobs, such as certains bosses (I don't feel like listing them, but you get the idea, DF, FW very notably. Some phases of Toadstool, same for CC too ect...)

Doing that cancel all damage, if you took 99999 damage you would still have time to rewind and negate all fatal damages. (as long as you're not at something like 76 years old you should have time to cancel.)

When you die, you loose time, that's the main downside of it. So I avoid it as much as possible. Could make my teammates go insane or panic too if we're in a fight, which is something not that good.

I like to play a character and seeing it getting stronger overtime, I'm not a fan of switching only for when it shines the most.

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

It seems to me that you don't realize maybe because you are good at the game but many players struggle playing Wanda and i am not just talking about new players. I would include myself here when i started playing her at release, i kept dying so much because i wasn't used to having such low health all the time, since i always stay old on her for damage. Also her health ticking down is quite annoying to deal with, i died a lot to this since release.

She already has a very high skill floor to majority of the players, only like 0.1% of Wanda players can use her to full potential.

You get better over time but you can't really downplay her downsides so much just because people over time manage to overcome them.

Absurd utility only comes in after a few ingame years or even longer depending on how many players you have on the server.

She doesn't need any nerfs if only the best players can show her stength.

The thing is, the power ceiling of the character is above the clouds while the skill floor is below the level of the sea. Some times ago, not too long after Wanda's release, I met a very new player to the game that started to play Wanda (very beginner player, didn't knew most of the basic stuffs such as how to prepare for seasons beside winter, how to kite hounds, pigs, what's a good base and stuff like this), and I saw them thrive because they just learned how to kite shadows, and knew where to get easy thulecite fragments, marble, living log, red and blue gems. That guy never played old aged Wanda due to fear of dying, but even with being young/middle aged most of the time, he didn't had to learn a good chunk of the game just because Wanda is that powerful. By day 15 he had the best weapon in the game, a way to revive all of his dead friends and very good armor (night armor if that wasn't clear.).

Like Pre rework Wolfgang, you can just skip a huge part of the game, and I don't think that's normal. Maybe my idea of a downside is too harsh, that might definitively be the case, but right now Wanda is not simply a glass cannon, she is a glass nuke. Maybe that I'm taking that the wrong way and we should reduce the reward rather than augment the risk, reducing the damage of the AC and going from a 81.6/97.92/142.8 damage to a 70/84/122.5 but well, even here that wouldn't do much. A character with awesome utility like her is perfect, she fits perfectly, but on top of that, insane combat potential and good survivability ? I know that Klei is making all the characters better than they were (for most of them) but Wanda is still way up and beyond characters that made people question Klei's choices such as when Wortox was released.

 

Here is a very long answer to the very long post of @00petar00, I'm pretty sure I made my point clear some posts ago but I didn't felt like throwing all that text to the trash can. Thank you for talking so much about the subject with me here ! I hope that it will, "inspire" some of the other forumites to talk about the balance of the game right now, with as many point of view as possible (and the willing of Klei devs...) we might be able to get strong and balanced characters, with good upsides, and downsides for the whole playerbase. (A good proof of that was the WX rework, a pretty great one, and a part is due to how many people here talked about their opinions.)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Are..

are you having a stroke sir? I do not understand.

YOU said she would be walter tier if she had 150% damage instead of 175. Walter is often considered the worst non challenge character, implying she would be ruined as a character if she just had a weaker damage boost.  
 

also i assume you’re implying im mad that wandas are outspeedrunninf me or something. My response to that is: i dont speedrun. I just believe that characters shouldnt be overly strong compared to other characters, even in a co-op game. Balance exists in all games competitive or not, it shouldn’t be something they’re too concerned about, but doing damage similar to the character whose main perk is “im the dps” is a little much in addition to all of her other abilities. 
 

Klei can decide for themselves whether to listen. Its their game.

im still entitled to have an opinion on the matter though.

so in MY OPINION: wanda has a lot of advantages without any strong disadvantages. To make her not stand out so much as an extremely strong character i believe it would be good if she recieved a small nerf of some kind. Maybe 160 or even 165. Im not too concerned about the details, i just think she’s got a lot of powers without having the drawbacks to match.

totally missunderstood your comment. Soz

[00petar00]

32 minutes ago, Rafi. said:

 

Just by playing the game you'll have too much healing food, i usually have full chests of jellybeans on my older worlds. While it is true that you don't need to bother with getting any or having to bundle wrap your healing food, you are also much slower when it comes to animation of ageless clock. I am not saying that ageless clock doesn't have any benefits.

When it comes to bone armors, you may think that other players are generous and won't want one when you want to have two, that is almost never going to be the case if you are playing with random people, even getting the first one might not be as easy as not everyone cares if you need something more or not.

Even if you play with your friends, they may not want to see you pick Wanda if you are going to require 2 bone armors and so many tusks. Its not that they are bad friends but everyone wants to use items that bosses drop, that's part of the fun and everyone needs a walking cane.

I wouldn't mind if young/middle age Wanda was nerfed, also if the nerf is going to be so drastic, i'd rather want backstep and second chance watches removed instead of not being able to use armor.

It is obvious that someone who picks a versatile character like Wanda with so many different abilities will not learn how to play DST but only learn how to play DST on that character, that is kind of similar if someone started playing with WX-78 and just used circuits to survive seasonal temperatures and permanent light.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

, i'd rather want backstep and second chance watches removed instead of not being able to use armor.

why? there many things to nerf than removing a not so good reviving item and a fun but not a big of a deal blink item...

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

wolfgang close to tying with her on speedruns

???

[Mike23Ua]

Wanda takes aging damage from all DoT sources.. right? So then how would Wanda fair if she was taken out of DST and placed in Shipwrecked or Hamlet?

Conclusion: Wanda isn’t broken.. there’s just no poison DoT or other effects that will make her life harder for her.

Personally I’m not a fan of a character who in addition to having extreme damage when close to death, also has a way to revive itself and free infinite health.. that’s not a glass canon but ehh whatever.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

why? there many things to nerf than removing a not so good reviving item and a fun but not a big of a deal blink item...

She is already quite powerful, does she really need to revive other players without cost too? I don't see how it isn't a good reviving item, especially if there are 2 Wanda players, they can revive eachother without the clock breaking.

Backstep is a really useful watch for bosses but it isn't a problem to kite and can easily kill them without it.

These are the 2 watches i would miss the least if they were removed instead of seeing a damage nerf, this would be more preferred.

Obviously if it was up to me, i wouldn't want to see any nerfs, i am just talking about what i wouldn't mind as much if it was changed/removed.

[Dextops]

20 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

???

yes i agree ???
wolfgang is like 2 hours behind wanda on most speedruns

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yes i agree ???
wolfgang is like 2 hours behind wanda on most speedruns

true that wanda dragonfly kill on day -15 is really impressive

[00petar00]

4 hours ago, Dextops said:

yes i agree ???
wolfgang is like 2 hours behind wanda on most speedruns

He's not, if you watched the recent speedruns, they are about the same speed but it seems like he is a bit faster.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

She is already quite powerful, does she really need to revive other players without cost too? I don't see how it isn't a good reviving item, especially if there are 2 Wanda players, they can revive eachother without the clock breaking.

Backstep is a really useful watch for bosses but it isn't a problem to kite and can easily kill them without it.

These are the 2 watches i would miss the least if they were removed instead of seeing a damage nerf, this would be more preferred.

Obviously if it was up to me, i wouldn't want to see any nerfs, i am just talking about what i wouldn't mind as much if it was changed/removed.

is a time character so they added clocks so she isnt just a character that hits with a clock and teleports... i prefer that than having flat character that dont explore the possibilities of their theme. I wish every character was like that, walter for example have room for even more perks but people already complain because "his perks are all over the place"

also...reviving is already quite easy and almost free, i dont think any player that needs that much resurrections would play wanda...

backstep watch is fun and overrated, and even if was the most op thing i prefer having it than klei letting the opportunity of adding that clock

i dont get how these 2 clocks are stronger than hitting from distanceand nobody complains about it for some reason. People tent to focus their complaina on the less valuable wanda's perks

 

[Dextops]

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

He's not, if you watched the recent speedruns, they are about the same speed but it seems like he is a bit faster.

yes ik that was the joke

[Rafi.]

14 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Just by playing the game you'll have too much healing food, i usually have full chests of jellybeans on my older worlds. While it is true that you don't need to bother with getting any or having to bundle wrap your healing food, you are also much slower when it comes to animation of ageless clock. I am not saying that ageless clock doesn't have any benefits.

When it comes to bone armors, you may think that other players are generous and won't want one when you want to have two, that is almost never going to be the case if you are playing with random people, even getting the first one might not be as easy as not everyone cares if you need something more or not.

Even if you play with your friends, they may not want to see you pick Wanda if you are going to require 2 bone armors and so many tusks. Its not that they are bad friends but everyone wants to use items that bosses drop, that's part of the fun and everyone needs a walking cane.

I wouldn't mind if young/middle age Wanda was nerfed, also if the nerf is going to be so drastic, i'd rather want backstep and second chance watches removed instead of not being able to use armor.

It is obvious that someone who picks a versatile character like Wanda with so many different abilities will not learn how to play DST but only learn how to play DST on that character, that is kind of similar if someone started playing with WX-78 and just used circuits to survive seasonal temperatures and permanent light.

Of course you'll get healing, but in a multiplayer case, you can just give all the heal to your friends, which is beneficial, and while yeah, the animation for the ageless watch take a bit of time, you'll have plenty of occasion to heal up during a fight.

Usually on a random world with random people yeah, I understand about people wanting to snatch the loot to be able to use it at all, but in a controlled environment, during late game, I don't see why you can't ask people to borrow one or two for fights. Especially knowing that it won't be a requirement to play Wanda, just to be at maximum ease if that downside was added (which is a very harsh one, that would need a good balancing rather than just throwing it like this.)

At one point you'll have enough cane for everyone anyway if you want to play lategame. Might take time to be able to set up everything for Wanda, but that's kinda the point, it cost so much due to how great those powers are, and right now, the backtreck watches are balanced, strong at a high cost, unlike some of her other perks that are strong with very negligible downside like we talked about earlier. 

The second chance watch is an amazing tool for reviving friends, seeing it removed would be pretty bad, what is strong is that it's potentially a cheaper LGA on the long run, even for Wanda. Maybe make her unable to revive with it could make the second chance watch a good tool for multiplayer (I know that some people play solo, that wouldn't be a problem due to bones being less abundant than in multiplayer and thus, making a LGA a more accessible option).
The backstep watch fits Wanda gameplay but is very strong too right now. Maybe if it could get scrapped for another type of watch, I'm sure Klei had very cool concepts for awesome watches. I agree on a nerf on that. As well as nerfing middle aged and young Wanda, the AC as no business to be that strong with such high health. Overall damage nerf of the AC should be thought about. Not making the AC trash to the dark sword but a sidegrade could be an interesting road to take.

You'll still have to learn that during winter, you're freezing and during summer you're heating, two things very easily negated by the thermal stone already, you're right about the light, that's a strong perk, but that makes you use atleast 3 slots that could be used for other perks. With the lower than average stat of WX now, beginners might prefer to play with stat boosting circuits too and rely on a torch or lantern to stay safe. Fighting in the other hand is something that should be learned properly, with how it affects your day to day gameplay. Wolfgang was nerfed properly, Wolfgang is super great right now, very strong, but he is still in line with the other reworked characters. (Some of them might be abit lacking but it seems that everyone find its fun without feeling underwhelming in a team.) Before, Wolfgang could skip so much that alot of newer players or "less skilled ones" could thrive with very low effort. Which in my opinion and what I saw totally possible right now with Wanda, and a reason of why she requires some nerfs.

[Mysterious box]

Personally while i see Wanda as the op character who stands above all I feel like it's mostly fine considering there's already big gaps between characters that being said tho I'll still never understand why they gave her the alarming clock it really doesn't seem thematically appropriate other than the fact it's a clock I guess but it completely negates what could have been a fairly threatening downside for players who didn't plan ahead.

[Guille6785]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

He's not, if you watched the recent speedruns, they are about the same speed but it seems like he is a bit faster.

wanda can't even get her alarming clock in almost every speedrun

(10 hour boss clears ending at bearger aren't speedruns)

[Waoling]

Make her less popular.