Do you like the Wolfgang rework rework?

[MondayNight]

Wigfrid the most (for her passive dmg reduction bon), but also Wolfgang and WX (in virtue of their large HP pools) were "the classic team tanks". Now this fixed-value Mighty! drain no-matter-the-armor (similarly to Walter's Bee damage/"allergies" & subsequent big sanity sapping) not only takes Wolf out from mentioned role, but also undermines all bons added by his re-rework (including ability to use Marble Suit without speed penalty). Is either perfect kite (good luck if ping's over 50) or using various forced gimmicks (fighting with Dumb-bells, taking pauses to re-gain Might, etc) to bypass this very-taxing new con on his core mechanic. As others stated, nothing from his new kit justifies or balances out this very punishing con. If KLei is adamant on such a punishment, at least the fixed-value should either be halved or make it armor-dependent, akin damage. As it stands it proverbially shoots Wolf in the foot for most player-base except advanced players with good ping and/or ones playing on personal servers.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Cannoli said:

If you like kill Bees, Frogs, Black Spiders, Hounds, Treeguards then ok. New Wolf is a nice shaved Wilson with sanity issues.

If you like kill Bosses, than no. Wolf is just a Wes 2.0 with a fake perk: mightiness.

The problem: people talking about a character they didn't play, just read "bullet points".

Please, first try solo kill Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Ancient Fuelweaver, Celestial Champion, Twins of Terror, AFTER THAT, and just AFTER THAT, come back and answer this thread.

For those who like talk about "skill", please post a video killing Shadow Bosses with New Wolf without loose mightiness. I'll buy you a new car.

Klei, please: Don't Kill Wolfgang, that change don't make any sense.

you can swap between weapon and dumbell to keep the bar up if you want to tank. i think the punish is too much but taking that you can melee atack with a dumbell and raise the metter without needing to go far in a safe place to bumb muscles so maybe is you who needs to test more before talking

nobody said here that we are okey with the numbers so keep your angry comments for you

[W0l0l0]

It seems that the mightytness loss on hit contradicts the marble armour a little. But whether Wolfgang tanks or has to dodge, he'll overlap with either Wigfrd or Wanda. 

I'm really happy Klei is giving this a go though, and experimenting with Wolfgang gives me hope for other forgotten characters. 

[Guille6785]

I think the mightiness loss on hit is too much and yeah it kinda contradicts what they were going for with the marble suit, making it reduced by armor would be a better compromise

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I think the mightiness loss on hit is too much and yeah it kinda contradicts what they were going for with the marble suit, making it reduced by armor would be a better compromise

not only that, you only have 25 points of margin to become normal wolfgang and that point you are sold, cant use bumbells as proper melee weapon (why klei?) and you will lose a lot of time lifting the dumbell = more time lifting dumbells than fighting...

if they want to keep this mechanic they should make it based on the hp you lose instead of damage taken so things like marble armor or night armor join the game 

[Cannoli]

19 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I think the mightiness loss on hit is too much and yeah it kinda contradicts what they were going for with the marble suit, making it reduced by armor would be a better compromise

Just eliminate that terrible idea would be better. Every Wolfgang player would be happy. Actually, the "old new" Wolfgang is ok, he just need one single buff: maintenance of mightiness while fighting.

I really don't know why Klei made this mess.

[Duck986]

2 hours ago, Cannoli said:

The problem: people talking about a character they didn't play, just read "bullet points".

I mean, I didn't play beta-Wolf because I don't have access to my computer now, but I will when I will have.

I killed EoT and DFly with an "old-reworked" Wolf, but then I found him pretty boring.

Most of this changes are what community wanted, though in not exactly that form (like: community asked for "getting mightiness on the go" and got "you don't lose mightiness if you walk with a dumbbell equipped"), and most last complaints I've seen are about losing mightiness when hit, so I assume he's ok now.

15 minutes ago, Cannoli said:

Actually, the "old new" Wolfgang is ok, he just need one single buff: maintenance of mightiness while fighting.

So staying on one place for solid 1.5 minutes instead of 21 second was ok for you, am I right?

[Cannoli]

1 minute ago, Duck986 said:

I I didn't play beta-Wolf...

.. So I assume he's ok now.

See, that's my point.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I'm fine with losing mightiness when hit, but it just seems bad that it can't be cushioned/negated by armor, especially since after playing wanda and walter once you get higher tier protection % you really feel a difference in durability and are a lot less punished for mistakes.

Also I don't think the drain should be instant but instead a relatively fast tick down so the player has some time to react and maneuver accordingly. I think the drain being removed by lifting a weight, punching with or tossing the weight would give some way to actively correct your mistake. 

Or either actively striking could remove a certain amount of  "ticks" from the drain per strike so with 4-6 regular hits you could possibly remove the debuff if you continued to kite correctly.

Do they run away to power down safely? Or do they continue fighting despite the drain in hopes of overcoming it or slowing it down just enough to stay mighty.

Also his transition animations have always gotten in the way of combat it's gonna happen way more often now since wolf can gain mighty meter whilst fighting but also is able to instantly lose that meter once hit.

If there is small immunity timer to losing mightiness on hit, when transitioning up and down forms I think that would help out that issue. Perhaps 3-5 seconds of immunity after powering up or down.

I saw another suggestion to move around when wolf transforms. 75 to go mighty but 70 to leave it that's also viable.

[Duck986]

1 minute ago, Cannoli said:

See, that's my point.

:-/ My reason is not "I don't play him because forums said his pros and cons", my reason is "I don't play him because I don't have access to my computer".

It's pretty hard for Kiev citizens to have their stuff with them rn, y'know.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

so I assume he's ok now.

not because he loses 13 points per 100 damage when she only is on mighty form above 75 which means that after 2 strong hits you lose mighty form

you will lose a lot of dps (a x2 damage character that has less dps than wigfrid) by using gembell as weapon (for some reason seems to not apply wolf damage) or going far to lift it. One thing is having as downside not being able to facetank easily and other is not being able to make 1 single mistake, wanda has more room for mistakes

cool concept but very bad implemented

3 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

:-/ My reason is not "I don't play him because forums said his pros and cons", my reason is "I don't play him because I don't have access to my computer".

It's pretty hard for Kiev citizens to have their stuff with them rn, y'know.

just ignore him and GL with the war

1 minute ago, Owlrust said:

It's pretty ironic as well considering that mighty Wolfgang is not slowed down by marble suits.

but not having penalty means that you can kite with a better armor 

[Owlrust]

4 hours ago, Toros said:

I like the vast majority of the changes, but don’t like the mightiness loss on hit.

We already have Wanda, Walter and Wigfrid to represent Melee kiting, ranged kiting, and tanking respectively.

Mightiness loss on hit makes no sense (especially ignoring armor mitigation) and forces Wolfgang into a kiting strategy or to fight with dumbbells to not get pummeled into wimpiness.

Wolfgang was a combat generalist, and now his combat style has a lot in common with Wanda but she does it better.

Yeah, tanking is not very viable as it is right now. It's pretty ironic as well considering that mighty Wolfgang is not slowed down by marble suits.

[Cannoli]

9 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

So staying on one place for solid 1.5 minutes instead of 21 second was ok for you, am I right?

It's ok. Not good, just ok.

Before: 1minute for prep and you are mighty for whole fight.

Now: 21'' but you loose mighty in two hits.

What's better? Play new Wolf. It's just too difficult arguing with someone who didn't.

[Toros]

2 minutes ago, Cannoli said:

It's ok. Not good, just ok.

Before: 1minute for prep and you are mighty for whole fight.

Now: 21'' but you loose mighty in two hits.

What's better? Play new Wolf. It's just too difficult arguing with someone who didn't.

Out of combat I’d say new wolf is much better and more fun.

In combat you definitely need to work around the mightiness loss to maintain your dps.

In a vacuum I don’t have an issue, but it’s hard not to look at Wanda and Warly and not see more utility and more power for the same effort.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Wanda get's less punished for getting hit and can face tank better than wolfgang.

Walter's ability to cushion the damage to his sanity drain is underrated.

[Cannoli]

2 minutes ago, Toros said:

Out of combat I’d say new wolf is much better and more fun.

In combat you definitely need to work around the mightiness loss to maintain your dps.

In a vacuum I don’t have an issue, but it’s hard not to look at Wanda and Warly and not see more utility and more power for the same effort.

Wilson have more power for same effort! Kitting or Tanking.

Considering you will take two hits of a Boss (99,9% of player base?), Wilson don't have the risk of turn Wes (whimpy).

[Duck986]

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

not because he loses 13 points per 100 damage when she only is on mighty form above 75 which means that after 2 strong hits you lose mighty form

I meant that he got many good tweaks compared to old version - as I see, the only thing that needs a fix rn is mightiness loss when hit.

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

just ignore him and GL with the war

Thanks, I'm fine now

[Mr Giggio]

its funny all this complain for bein punished when get heavily hit by bosses when a lot of yall made wigfriid mains as joke for facetank

[Gi-Go]

No. 

[Cheggf]

I like him now, he's fun. I haven't played very much so I don't know how bad the mightiness lost on hit is though.

[Toros]

1 hour ago, MrSoratori said:

its funny all this complain for bein punished when get heavily hit by bosses when a lot of yall made wigfriid mains as joke for facetank

In most cases tanking is inefficient, but there are certain situations where it makes sense, and historically Wolfgang’s unique position was that he was good at both kiting and tanking and unlike Wanda could use any weapon equally effectively.

Out of combat wolfgang is now much more fun and useful, and double damage will always be strong, but the effort to maintain it might not be worth it for many people.

[Theukon-dos]

9 hours ago, Duck986 said:

But maybe it has higher melee damage than marble one?

Think so, but it doesn't quite matter much sense it still does the same damage as a spear.

[Toros]

17 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Think so, but it doesn't quite matter much sense it still does the same damage as a spear.

Marble dumbell does spear base damage and gembell does battle spear (42.5) damage.

Gembell for mighty Wolfgang does the same damage as Wigfrid with a dark sword.

[Cloakingsumo198]

28 minutes ago, Toros said:

Marble dumbell does spear base damage and gembell does battle spear (42.5) damage.

Gembell for mighty Wolfgang does the same damage as Wigfrid with a dark sword.

So no spider one shots by tossing gembell?

[Toros]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

So no spider one shots by tossing gembell?

Nope, and the durability loss from tossing is still 10 or 5% even though dumbbells last longer when lifting than before

Tossing is allowed but discouraged.