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public server griefing problem


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Does klei not care about the griefing that goes on pub servers? I spent many hours with a few other guys to get a pub server to day 850 and a griefer just came to base while we were occupied with other things and burned everything. I got his steam profile, not sure who to send this profile link to or does klei not care?

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@Capybara007 I read the post and he makes the problem sound so complex when it really isnt. I can list a bunch of solutions off the top of my head that can prevent griefing. I've also played on pub servers for couple month now and I know every griefer by name and also their steam profile. It's always the same guys that try to f*ck with our bases so I don't see the  whole "there's always two sides to the story..." narrative joe is pushing.

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When i bringed up that post i wanted to point out that they are actually developing more anti griefing tools, but i agree that when someone burns a base there is no other explanation than that is a griefer and he must be banned, hopefully they do some changes this year.

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it takes like 30 seconds to ban + rollback a save anyways, even without real anti-griefing tools it's really not that damaging. in my experience dst griefers have always just been a mild annoyance instead of completely devastating my progress like in some other multiplayer games

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On 1/7/2022 at 6:46 PM, nimzowitsch10 said:

I can list a bunch of solutions off the top of my head that can prevent griefing

And I can prove every single one of them to be inefficacious and just make the game worse for no reason. If you want day 1,000+ worlds host your own or play on a moderated community server, then there will be no griefing. If you're keeping Klei servers up for 850 days you're almost certainly using tactics that other people see as griefing. You aren't entitled to hog that server to yourself for all of eternity.

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@Cheggf We have alot of active players that have different sleep schedules thats how we kept it up that long, how in the world is that griefing. Also there are 4 other klei official servers in my area that are open for other people if they don't want to play on our long term server, don't really understand your logic at all. Anyway, some solutions I can think of:

- make a message system that can be turned on/off in client setting if someone burn/hammer structure/unrenewable

- ban griefers from playing on pub server. I got video evidence on a few griefers, but like joe says, "there's always two sides to the story" when a day 1 willow come in base and start hammering and burning stuff. 

- hour requirements (i made a post about this sometime ago)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

We have alot of active players that have different sleep schedules thats how we kept it up that long, how in the world is that griefing.

I said "almost certainly", not "definitely". If you never used any idle accounts, never trapped spawn to filter people in, never acted like you own the server, never spammed rollbacks because they weren't working, never kicked people to try to make those rollbacks work, etc, then you weren't griefing. But every time I've seen a server with a high day count they've been doing at least one if not several of those things.

6 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

- ban griefers from playing on pub server. I got video evidence on a few griefers

Yeah and I can easily get evidence of you being a griefer. It would be trivial for my friend to change his name to yours and start griefing as I record him. I bet you could even make a client mod to cause the scoreboard to open whichever Steam profile you want when examining players instead of opening their actual profile. If you want a system where people ban griefers based on hearsay and inconclusive evidence that already exists: host your own server, or play on a community server.

8 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

make a message system that can be turned on/off in client setting if someone burn/hammer structure/unrenewable

That's already in the game both as a server mod and a client mod. It also doesn't really help stop griefers at all because they just do it right as the world saves.

8 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

hour requirements (i made a post about this sometime ago)

And sometime ago everyone told you what I'm going to say here: an hour requirement does nothing to help and only makes Klei servers less accessible to the people who need to be on Klei servers the most. If you want a server with hour requirements you can host your own, then it can also have global announcements for hammering and have you able to ban whoever you want. All of your issues are instantly solved with no downsides if you just host your own server, or join a community server that aligns with your interests.

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@Cheggf

No we never employed any spawn trapping or kicking tactic. We did have to rollback many times because of countless griefers though, not sure if you would also consider that griefing.

 

first point, I guess someone can doctor footage but many of us got footage of multiple occurences of this same steam profile griefing so in the end, it's a risk I'm willing to accept just to get these few notorious griefers banned. It's always the same guys. What you think about undercover community mods then?

 

second point, Server mods not enabled in pub server so idk why u brought that up. As for client mod, are u talking about nogriefer? That mod doesn't work when a player is actively setting structure on fire or hammering. It just tells you when someone equip torch/hammer which is pretty annoying after a while. If you not talking about no griefer can u tell me which client mod so I can install it? Also, not sure if u know but double rollbacks are possible to reverse two days.to counteract someone burning few seconds before next day.

 

third, if u read my post I say make another server, so no accessibility issue.

 

Pretty sure u don't like playing on pub servers but alot of people do. I played on many community/private servers and I can tell u it's just not the same feeling as playing on pub server. Pub server full of new people that u never knew before with different playstyles. Also pub server, the host can't say c_spawn("krampussack",10). You actualy gotta grind for good stuff

 

 

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Klei should just close down the pubs just so we don't get posts like these anymore.

A healthy long term pub is one that has a moderation team to it just based on my experience with pubs that do have a moderation team.

I've always seen Klei pubs as a no-mans land/anarachy server because of the lack of moderation, despite others saying they see it as open server for all to join and that people shouldn't "hoard" the servers for themselves (I personally see no problem with this).

Unless Klei actually has their own moderation team for pubs, posts like these will never end no matter what anti-griefing mechanics Klei implements into the game, since there will always be a way around it.

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2 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

Yes I agree some undercover community mods would be the best solution but klei refuses to do anything. Don't know about shutting them down though.

Read what Joe wrote in the post that Capybara posted, it explains why the pubs are the way they are and what Klei is doing about it (and can't).

It's also here for other people's convenience:

Spoiler

The OP is a bit aggressive, but I am going to reply so everybody knows where we stand at the moment. This is going to get long, but I am trying to keep it brief. By no means am I going over all the details right now - because there is a lot to this. 

First, we don't lock or hide posts for any reason other than if they aren't hosting constructive and meaningful conversation. Regardless of how critical it may be. Unless of course, there are a bunch of threads about the same topic, but that's normal forum moderation. 

Next - the current state of the public servers, hell the existence of the public servers all together can be blamed almost entirely on me. It was my initial push to open public servers and it's been at my insistence that we haven't made any drastic decisions with these servers as well. We do everything together at Klei, so we rarely use "me" when talking about what was done - but I do want this to be clear, because we have internally debated and discussed this situation for a long, long time now. We're all in agreement that we have a situation that needs to be resolved, and we are absolutely actively working toward a solution. And at this time we have settled on a path forward that we are currently working toward.

The purpose of the public servers was to provide good, powerful servers to people that might not be able to play on their own dedicated servers otherwise. This was an early decision and we stand by their purpose, but I think if we had to do it over again we would have made different decisions. 

We have had a ton of discussions. From shutting them down entirely, or internal moderation and even community moderation. But we have never been entirely satisfied with an answer that didn't ultimately feel like it would only bring about new problems. And we're not super keen to waste resources on something that doesn't have a lasting positive impact to the game. 

There are a lot of challenges to moderating a game like Don't Starve Together that I feel are unique to the DST experience. Not everybody thinks that accidentally burning down everything is a "bad" thing. Not everybody agrees on what should and shouldn't be done in the game at any given time. There isn't really any right or wrong way to play the game. Some people feel you must min/max to play correctly, some enjoy the chaos from trying to help people figure things out. Some of you absolutely love the chaos other people bring, some people like 100% cooperation at all times. 

Most of the forum can't even agree on how to play the game at any given time. 

We have no interest in enforcing how you or your friends play the game. I have supported something like a dozen online games with millions of players, and it takes a lot - A LOT of resources to maintain even basic game moderation. 

Combing through server logs, is especially interesting in trying to decipher what a persons original intention was when they burned the base down. 

It's one thing on your servers that you own, and you make the decisions. It's another thing as a company trying to do what is best for customers that purchased your game. I am not comfortable banning people unless I am absolutely certain what they did was bad. And as much as you might not like hearing it, screenshots don't cut it. 

Naively I guess. The idea was that those servers would be chaos, and if people didn't like it, they wouldn't play there. I don't think this is incorrect now, but I also see that there is a place for open public servers like DST has without the chaos. 

Now - I am aware that there are situations where people have flat out said they were griefing. But I am also aware of many of these situations that I have investigated (quietly) also had another side of the story where they were also harassed. And I am very, very resistant to banning people, unless there is no other choice. 

This landed us where we are now. We are currently working toward better tools for server administration. Substantially better logging and moderation capabilities as well as encouraging, providing and highlighting more player hosted dedicated servers as well.


We've been quiet because we haven't had an adequate solution, but we're well on our way on this. This will come little by little, and some of this is already starting (Steam chat filters are in the test build right now) and more that I can't talk about yet, more details will come out for this when I have more information. But for now, I wanted you to know where we're at. 

 

9 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

Btw great vids!

Thanks!

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?imw=268&imh=268&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=trueNone of you in the server had this mod? Usually it's quite helpful for keeping griefers away from successful community servers, although evidently quite a bit of now benign people are also in the lists therefore I suggest you modify it so that it only alerts you rather than starting a vote automatically and strait up disable the annoying "Peter picked up Potato Cup" allerts

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2007563445&searchtext=no+griefer

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On 1/10/2022 at 6:18 AM, SinancoTheBest said:

?imw=268&imh=268&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=trueNone of you in the server had this mod? Usually it's quite helpful for keeping griefers away from successful community servers, although evidently quite a bit of now benign people are also in the lists therefore I suggest you modify it so that it only alerts you rather than starting a vote automatically and strait up disable the annoying "Peter picked up Potato Cup" allerts

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2007563445&searchtext=no+griefer

I would agree that you should use the whisper setting rather than automatically start a vote. The mod does give the record of the person in question, for you to make an independent decision. As far as those benign people go, they probably griefed in the past, but is unlikely to do currently, so the mod is being factual, and the voters have to decide their benchmark for forgiveness

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On 1/8/2022 at 5:24 AM, taako bell said:

it takes like 30 seconds to ban + rollback a save anyways, even without real anti-griefing tools it's really not that damaging. in my experience dst griefers have always just been a mild annoyance instead of completely devastating my progress like in some other multiplayer games

But this requires someone to be

a) watching over base,
b) watching over reeds
c) watching over cacti

at all times, otherwise 1-day rollbacks will not save your world if you get a dedicated griefer who really wants damage your world.

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On 1/9/2022 at 5:18 PM, SinancoTheBest said:

?imw=268&imh=268&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=trueNone of you in the server had this mod? Usually it's quite helpful for keeping griefers away from successful community servers, although evidently quite a bit of now benign people are also in the lists therefore I suggest you modify it so that it only alerts you rather than starting a vote automatically and strait up disable the annoying "Peter picked up Potato Cup" allerts

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2007563445&searchtext=no+griefer

That mod has been abandoned by the developer a long time ago it seems. Numerous players trying to appeal including my account, have not gotten any sort of response in a long time.

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As far as I can see, the latest ban is on 26 Jan 2022, which is very recent.

In my opinion, the best move for tranoze is actually to ignore you. People who are suspected of lying on their appeal application, rather than going one big round to argue, might as well ignore those appeal request; the outcome if the same anyway. If you want to lie about your 'brother' used your account to grief, do it at the start and do it consistently. Do not use this excuse randomly.

Furthermore, why should tranoze be responsible for giving you a clean slate when you indeed griefed? The people who kicked you are the players, and as far as the record goes, you did indeed grief. You can appeal to the players each time you join a world, and I think this is a fair price for griefing.

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I bet Klei cares about griefers but they don't have the resources to babysit 15+ servers. On top of the suggestions already mentioned, I'd recommend just playing somewhere else. This is not an advertisement for anything but the DST survivors group runs a bunch of servers that are moderated and I think the Don't Fight Together servers are also moderated. 

 

People will still try to grief on those servers but they'll be banned off all of their servers so it's "safer"

 

 

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