Forum's Opinion on New Wolfgang Refresh.

[ALCRD]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Do you just hate Beefalos or something?

Beefalo are pure evil and deserve all the hate tho.

Haven't seen such annoying, disloyal and overally trollish / downright evil "pet" creature in any other game i've played.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

 

[Owlrust]

The only thing I ask be looked into before this rework is finished is making it so that attacking with a dumbbell swings it like a weapon (they are swung like a fist) to be more consistent in fighting, and to allow mighty Wolfgang to fight the same way but with the OPTION to throw them.

I like the idea of gaining might through attacking with them, but it's pretty inconsistent in how you do it and it could throw a lot of players off.

[Mike23Ua]

Ignoring your attempts to insult me as a weirdo (which by the way me & my family take as a compliment so thank you ) 

Why should Beefalo NOT Become the new Meta? Especially if Klei plans to add more skins for them for players to purchase in the future.. 

For this I give you 4 really great reasons:

Reason # 1-

Beefalo can be *tamed* on DAY 1- Tamed is highlighted with *’s because they only Follow you everywhere with the Bell Bond, you still need to ride/feed them to complete the tame: But now it’s easier because they always follow you and can be rode as early as Day 1 too even if they throw you off just get back on and keep riding the longer you ride the faster it tames, each time it bucks you off the timer till next buck is expanded until it no longer bucks you at all (indicated by its hair becoming more groomed and neat looking)

Reason # 2- you can customize their Heads,Horns, Body, feet, and tail: Effectively allowing Beefalo to have just as many skin opportunities as the playable characters do.. which in turn is profits for Klei when people buy them.

Reason # 3- the YoTB update also made it so you can pick up loose items and gather resources without ever dismounting the Beefalo and Beefalo move faster then Wolfgang ever dreamed of. 

Reason # 4- A lot of people aren’t actually aware of this one, but Beefalo will PASSIVELY Heal themselves when out of combat without you needing to feed them anything at all but if you want to speed up this process you can feed them grass, twigs or even human healing foods. They also have 600hp so they can take a good beating, compared to the 200hp Wolfgang.

I mean if you don’t want to tame a Beefalo then I guess no one will be able to convince you otherwise, and you may even already be aware of all these tips: I don’t care, I’m sharing them for the Forum members who Are NOT Aware anyway.

Beefalo are sounding pretty Meta to me at this point.  

[Gi-Go]

Thanks for explaining, but who asked? Who said beefalo is not meta? 

[Well-met]

according to the votes it seems like there's a vocal minority after all.

[Cloakingsumo198]

31 minutes ago, Well-met said:

according to the votes it seems like there's a vocal minority after all.

Eh, the questions are kinda worded weird, especially the first one, the second one implies people still want more changes.

[Mangrove]

I don't like the new Wolfgang because he revolves around mechanics where I'm happier the more I can avoid doing them (the gym and dumbbells). The breaks in gameplay aren't fun. The just standing around or being tethered to a gym are too disruptive for me since I love always being on the move and often stay away from my base for full seasons. The reliance on cut stone for the dumbbells doesn't help either.

The upsides in mighty form besides damage are mostly irrelevant for my use case (I outsource chopping/mining to bearger etc, don't need the marble suit or the piggypack), and staying mighty only for the damage feels like a waste of resources and time unless I'm up against a boss. Flavor-wise he feels less like a strongman compared to old Wolfgang cause I spend less time being strong than before unless I'm close to a gym.

I'm sad he's lost his high tension fighting while managing his linear might since those things were unique to him and with this rework I can't get that experience anymore. It was my reason for playing him and what made him fun for me, together with how fun he made kiting and fighting bosses.

 

All of this adds up to him not feeling like Wolfgang anymore, and it's hard to see him simply replaced

[IanKSB91]

I like this new Wolfgang jaja, this Is the first time I could kill 3 different bosses in less than a in-game year and with very little armor jaja. Although I can see that his playstyle could be a little bit more mobile, I really like the suggestion of gaining mighthynes from work activities at least enough to maintain mighthynes on the go. And I also liked the idea of Mike about being capable of carriying bigger objects that only he could carry like beffalos jaja, Im pretty sure that his inhuman streng can be added to his gameplay in more ways to make him more fun jaja.

[maradyne]

...feel like I can give my thoughts now that some time has passed and things have settled.
Keep in mind, much of this is based on me personally. How I see myself interacting with the character going forward.

 

Never been much of a Wolfgang player, but...the number of people who enjoyed him coming forward to express their loss tells me that the update didn't hit the mark.
I did happen to have a similar experience to this in another game; a character's update actually just replacing the old character with a new one, and dumpstering the original form of the character. This situation doesn't seem as extreme to me...but again, I've never been fond of Wolf's playstyle, so I wouldn't be the one feeling it.

...but the thing is, I also don't see myself playing him now. I've tried the update a bit, and it just...doesn't appeal.
Previously, I'd play him once in a blue moon on a public server, in part because of the simplicity; he didn't do anything special besides stat boosts, and those could be activated by just...eating more. Doing more of what you already do. Boring to me normally, but he did serve that one purpose. Speed could be useful, damage didn't hurt.
As he is now...
He's lost that speed, so that's not a factor. Wormwood, Wortox, and Walter are the mobility picks now.
His increased health is now comparable to/beaten by other survivors, not to mention Wigfrid's defense and self-healing, as well as Heartrending...and Wortox's healing.
And...he isn't the only character with increased damage, which by itself is still just a stat change; it doesn't change much about how you approach the game.

The utilities he has...are neat in concept, but just don't feel like enough to outbalance his lackluster upsides, combined with the fact that if you don't regularly stop and use weights or carry something in your back slot, you're heading toward a form change that makes you the worst character in the game.
It just doesn't feel like the gameplay benefits of Mighty form compare to what other characters get, or the downsides of Wimpy form...
Particularly because of the breaks in gameplay caused by the Mighty Meter.

 

...ultimately, it feels like this update wasn't for a lot of the preexisting Wolfgang players...and at the very least, didn't make him interesting to this non-Wolfgang player.
I just worry that he'll be yet another pick and swap character after this, specifically when people want to kill bosses.
Don't get me wrong, he'll probably still be the goto for speedy kill videos, or other dedicated efforts in a specific moment...
But not for regular gameplay.

Sure, there are people that actually stick to and play Winona, and don't just craft her catapults and switch...
But you don't tend to see them.

 

...this idea seemed like it would help significantly:

[Toroic]

51 minutes ago, maradyne said:

...feel like I can give my thoughts now that some time has passed and things have settled.
Keep in mind, much of this is based on me personally. How I see myself interacting with the character going forward.

 

Never been much of a Wolfgang player, but...the number of people who enjoyed him coming forward to express their loss tells me that the update didn't hit the mark.
I did happen to have a similar experience to this in another game; a character's update actually just replacing the old character with a new one, and dumpstering the original form of the character. This situation doesn't seem as extreme to me...but again, I've never been fond of Wolf's playstyle, so I wouldn't be the one feeling it.

...but the thing is, I also don't see myself playing him now. I've tried the update a bit, and it just...doesn't appeal.
Previously, I'd play him once in a blue moon on a public server, in part because of the simplicity; he didn't do anything special besides stat boosts, and those could be activated by just...eating more. Doing more of what you already do. Boring to me normally, but he did serve that one purpose. Speed could be useful, damage didn't hurt.
As he is now...
He's lost that speed, so that's not a factor. Wormwood, Wortox, and Walter are the mobility picks now.
His increased health is now comparable to/beaten by other survivors, not to mention Wigfrid's defense and self-healing, as well as Heartrending...and Wortox's healing.
And...he isn't the only character with increased damage, which by itself is still just a stat change; it doesn't change much about how you approach the game.

The utilities he has...are neat in concept, but just don't feel like enough to outbalance his lackluster upsides, combined with the fact that if you don't regularly stop and use weights or carry something in your back slot, you're heading toward a form change that makes you the worst character in the game.
It just doesn't feel like the gameplay benefits of Mighty form compare to what other characters get, or the downsides of Wimpy form...
Particularly because of the breaks in gameplay caused by the Mighty Meter.

 

...ultimately, it feels like this update wasn't for a lot of the preexisting Wolfgang players...and at the very least, didn't make him interesting to this non-Wolfgang player.
I just worry that he'll be yet another pick and swap character after this, specifically when people want to kill bosses.
Don't get me wrong, he'll probably still be the goto for speedy kill videos, or other dedicated efforts in a specific moment...
But not for regular gameplay.

Sure, there are people that actually stick to and play Winona, and don't just craft her catapults and switch...
But you don't tend to see them.

 

...this idea seemed like it would help significantly:

As a Wolfgang player who really likes the changes, I’d like to offer an alternative perspective.

I liked Wolfgang a lot when he was first released because of his theme and quotes and his contrast with Wilson.  Back then, Wilson was the only source of beard hair so meat effigies were his unique perk.

In DS I usually wouldn’t play Wolfgang simply because I felt his damage was overkill for bosses and I bounced around several characters because between SW, RoG, and Hamlet they all had their own pros and cons and since I’m not much for megabasing I could get playtime with a lot of different characters.

Once DST came out though, I played primarily with my (now) wife, and she doesn’t enjoy combat much so I picked Wolfgang to pick up the slack in that area.

But… I found the constant scaling speed made fights like dfly annoying because the timing changes and just eating to be fast and do damage was pretty boring in comparison with what other characters were capable of.  In 2017 I made a wolfgang rework mod that dropped his speed and over time I slowly added more features like negating speed penalties, carrying heavy things faster, rowing faster, reduced max health/sanity, induced insanity, etc.  

I always liked Wolfgang’s personality and role, but he didn’t have the “strongman” feel I wanted, so I learned to code to make changes, and that eventually led to me going to school and getting a degree and now work as a software dev, so seeing the direction Klei took the refresh feels like closure in a lot of ways.

Wolfgang feels like a strongman now, and if you’ve done weight training the idea that you need to spend time and eat more to be buff is spot on.  With a proper gym you spend like 5 seconds a day to maintain mighty form and it only gives you a hunger rate of 1.33x. For me, that’s a lot less tedious than producing 3x the normal amount of food (and in both large hunger and small hunger varieties for filling up and also topping off in combat).

The way you used him before I think is a good perspective on why some people are disappointed.  You’re not into combat characters specifically, but Wolfgang’s easy and effective and the only thing you need to do to use that power is produce more food than normal.

For me, Wolfgang gained consistency and utility and there’s infrastructure to consider instead of “grab some food and swap to Wolf for a raid boss, then swap back”.  He is better at some things and worse at others, but I see him as a combat generalist now who can both kite (but not as well as Wanda) and tank (but not as well as Wigfrid) and is more group friendly as he gets significant additional sanity drain when outnumbered.

He’s not as good at exploring because you need to either use a gembell for 15 seconds a day or build a gym (or gym network) but I think pulling back in his speed and being only reliant on gaining hunger let him gain other abilities and create space for other characters to shine.

Him not being the most obvious choice for speedruns is also a blessing in disguise because it means we could see a variety of other characters chosen for different challenges now.

I don’t know if people who didn’t care for him before will play Wolf, though they’ll probably enjoy one on their team more than before.

I do know that people who picked him because he was easy to play and powerful with no real strategic limitations to worry about will probably switch because he has things other than hunger to manage now.

For people like me, who liked Wolfgang for his quotes and because he’s good at fighting, the new design is a lot more fun and unique.

[Echsrick]

well that was something, i mean, new wolfgang is not realy that bad, your still goin to use walkin canes anyways so theres that, but the good thing is that you have always big damage, no matter what the number is at a higther mighty number, so you could only be 1 point above the mightynes and still to massive damage, so thats clearly a plus to me, speed, i actualy never realy notice that your goin faster as mighty wolfgang anyways, and if we are at speed, mighty wolfgang can carry heavy things lot faster, like, i realy dit not expect mighty wolfgang to carry heavy things that fast, its almost normal speed it seems, and so wolfgang can be realy good for shadow pices, if there is no walter or no one wants to do the beefalo stuff, gettin mighty can be a bit annoying at the beggining, but if you upgrate the gym whit more heavyer things, its actualy realy fast to go up, and the dumbells are just tools to not get normal again, so actualy its not that bad, and then the choping mining and hammer bonus in mighty is alsol a nice little thing, man, people realy do seem that speed was everything wolfgang got, 

[HowlVoid]

Hmmm...

[Pikapikap]

Maybe a few more Modification? Who knows. We'll see.

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Toros said:

Kiting dragonfly was harder for me with speedboost. 

Finally, a Toros origin story. 

[SecretPizzaMan]

9 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Question 1 is not properly constructed. New mighty system is not all there is to this rework. In fact, it's not even worth paying attention to. It's a small quality of life feature that makes you not use small snacks mid battle for consistant damage, which could be considered an annoyance untill you notice his ridiculous 300 hp bar and start using healing snacks little by little to keep hunger at full while also healing (blue caps). So I'm voting he is bad, but I do like new mighty system. It's all about the movement speed.

Some dudes say I'm exaggerating and speed removal is not a big deal, but if that's true then the whole rework is almost nonexistent. You have a recharge station instead of consumable batteries. Who cares they are equally easy to use and be mighty. An already trashy character just got nerfed.

And yes, Wolfgang WAS an amazing character back in the days. Meaby even the best. Not overpowered tho, since all he was good at is killing which is very nice but like... yeah, no way, a combat themed character is best at combat. Who would have guessed. Then Wendy rework came and she took the spot of being the best character. Suddenly Wolfgang is just good. Not great just good. Then beefalo rework came and all the characters got speed, hp and damage buff while also getting all of their slots released from needing anything. Boom! Wolfgang is meh now. And hen Wanda came who is a superhero for fun, and is best at both killing and traveling. Wolfgang is irrelevant all of a sudden. And lastly klei joins to the party 2 years too late and is like "did someone said wolf is best character? We better nerf that sh*t and remove all of his upsides outside or combat which is one". And ta-daaah! Wolfgang is poop now. 

Do you want another question it can be added.

6 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Eh, the questions are kinda worded weird, especially the first one, the second one implies people still want more changes.

Sorry this is my first time making a poll.

[Gi-Go]

29 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Do you want another question it can be added.

Sorry this is my first time making a poll.

It's okay. But if you could add an option "new mighty system is good, but the speed nerf is bad" I'd appreciate. 

Unless you are interested in new mighty meter vs old mightiness opinion exclusively. Then I'm in the wrong place. 

[SecretPizzaMan]

40 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's okay. But if you could add an option "new mighty system is good, but the speed nerf is bad" I'd appreciate. 

Unless you are interested in new mighty meter vs old mightiness opinion exclusively. Then I'm in the wrong place. 

Maybe add a separate question entirely and ask "Do you like the removal of speed?" And "Do you dislike the removal of speed" and for people that don't care, I'll add something special.

[Gi-Go]

10 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Maybe add a separate question entirely and ask "Do you like the removal of speed?" And "Do you dislike the removal of speed" and for people that don't care, I'll add something special.

Yeah, great idea, but don't add "do you like the removal of speed?" People will press it for no reason. Instead keep the second option only, or add "I don't care" as well. 

[Mike23Ua]

But what if people actually do care that it is removed & don’t want it back?