No Speed Boost Is Actually BAD Change For Wolfgang

[Gi-Go]

Look, I really hoped I wouldn't have to make this post, because I thought everyone on this forum, regardless of their opinion on the rework, and regardless of their playstyle - have a basic grasp on understanding what fun is and isn't. After being proven time and time again that this is just not the case, I desided to spoon feed you explanations on why removing speed in this rework is the worst decision ever made - regardless of what klei tried to achieve. So buckle up, and prepare to read my top 15 reasons on why removing speed is bad (it's the same points I made before, but this time without sarcasm and fooling around):

Number 0 (and the only one you need to read):
Walking is not fun in this game. You do it all the time and hate doing it. Cane is the most desirable item to get your hands on. Not because it helps you survive, or makes the game easier. Just because walking is undeniably boring, and any way to do less of that is a godsend.

Number 1:
Removing speed dosen't make Wolfgang less OP. Meaby back in the days before Wendy got reworked he could be considered the best character in the game. He isn't anymore, with or without speed. If this is a nerf, then it only makes Wolfgang walk slower. Boring, but not a downside.

Number 2:
Despite speed removal Wolfgang is still one of the easiest characters in the game. If this was an attempt to change that, then it sure isn't a hard one to deal with, as many characters don't have speed boosts either.

Number 3:
Wolfgang dosen't need speed boost. It's true, but that dosen't mean it's not a great perk to have, and the one people grown to love. No character needs anything to be playable, but who actually plays Wilson for his perks?

Number 4:
Having speed dosen't temper with his strongman theme. Strong people can run fast too. But you know who can't? Plants and robots.

Number 5:
Wolfgang is more fun now than before rework. While true, speed removal didn't help with that in the slightest, and only made it less effective.

Number 6:
Speed fits into his character kit. Regardless of what your Wolfgang playstyle is, you will be glad to walk faster I'm sure of it.

Number 7: speed fits into a fast paced combat character that is Wolfgang. Preparation for boss always takes a lot more time than the actual fight for our beloved strong man, and it's nice to do everything combat themed faster. Also, isn't the whole point of playing Wolfgang is to kill bosses faster?

Number 8:
I haven't heard a single good reason for speed removal. I haven't heard even a bad one from developers. Please, inform me if I'm wrong about this whole speed thing. I want to know why this change should be viewed as a positive thing.

Number 9:
Some Wolfgang players are upset with this change, while others couldn't care less. We can please everyone with keeping speed boost. No reason go argue over nothing.

Number 10:
The fact that other characters don't have speed boost is not Wolfgang's fault. Ask for them to get it in some form, or ask for everyone to loose theirs, as speed boosts are too good to be character perks apperanetly (please don't). Don't target Wolfgang who is already struggling with excestentical crisis from becoming what he used to make fun of wigfrid for - a worse but easier version of the REAL battle character.

Number 11:
Keeping old perks while adding new ones is what klei did for every previous rework. The game balance won't shatter just because he can chop trees now on top of his previous advantages.

Number 12:
Working better is not a good replacement for running faster. While both tasks are known for being repetitive and boring, you have numerous ways to work around the first one as any character at any point of the game. From pigs to bearger. Speed is not that easy to neglect.

Number 13:
Wolfgang dosen't have any advantage in the game besides bosses right now. Everything else can be done just as good if not better by more than half the characters. With cheap speed, he could be very versatile. A speed themed character should get a harder to obtain but better in raw power speedboost.

Number 14:
Unintended things should not be removed. Anenemy voltgoat farm, pig bait cage, ancient guardian cheese with minimal gear, and many more. Everyone loves to be efficient, even if that's not how the game was designed.

That is all. I hope I was constructive enough for your tastes, and managed to deliver my points.
I'm exhausted, and can't continue arguing for good game design choices any longer. What happens next I'll leave in yours and klei's hands. Thanks for having me, you've all been a great audience and made me have a good time. Goodbye.

[elthodoido]

I agree with you.

While I really want to like this rework as it is, I feel like the New Wolfgang' play style became so much "static". We lost the speed and we're linked to a place (gym) or standing (afking) for some seconds, and that's less fun (to me at least), i don't want to be forced to have downtimes.

Whereas the Old's gameplay was way more dynamic and i would/could even play a nomad style for days while killing early bosses, and i had way more fun.

In the end, that's all it should be about: FUN. This is not a competitive game where balance is essential.

But whatever, man. Just move on.

[Mike23Ua]

Alternatively.. just like they did with player movement speed carrying heavy stuff, they could just make everyone walk faster and then your problems of walking slow are forever solved.

However: Beefalo do still exist, and they can be obtained as early as the YELLOW Bar of Daylight on DAY ONE.. and kept indefinitely.

You keep Dismissing Beefalo like they’re some sort of joke.. but if you can gather resources while riding on them and gather food/items from whatever you fight- Have you ever considered that Maybe.. just MAYBE Klei’s Intent is to make Day 1 Beefalo mounts the new “Meta”? 

[Cloakingsumo198]

Beefalo suck for Wolfgang that's why all of Wolfgang's perks apply to Wolfgang and only him.  A beef just complicates things without giving much return, the only reason being speed

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Beefalo suck for Wolfgang that's why all of Wolfgang's perks apply to Wolfgang and only him.  A beef just complicates things without giving much return, the only reason being speed

Unless your planning to take the Beefalo into a Boss Fight: they are all around better in virtually every way.. they have huge health points, heal themselves passively, and can be used to fight most mobs with no trouble at all.

Using Walter as an example: Woby is only good for Transportation, he has to get off her to do any actual combat..

Same would apply to the character with the Mighty Fists if he wants his 2x damage right?

[Cloakingsumo198]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Unless your planning to take the Beefalo into a Boss Fight: they are all around better in virtually every way.. they have huge health points, heal themselves passively, and can be used to fight most mobs with no trouble at all.

Using Walter as an example: Woby is only good for Transportation, he has to get off her to do any actual combat..

Same would apply to the character with the Mighty Fists if he wants his 2x damage right?

Woby is designed to be weaker than a beefalo and Walter design is he doesn't want to get hit at all, why would you dismount your beefalo to fight as Walter? Walter is someone that only gains when having a beefalo, you don't see how tedious maintaining yourself as wolfgang, maintaining the beefalo and also utilizing the beefalo would be.

The best way to tame a beefalo is just by riding it all the time, Wolfgang isn't gonna be doing that when he needs to be constantly dismounting just to utilize his abilities beefalos suck for Wolfgang period there ain't a debate out of everybody Wolfgang is the one to gain the least using them.

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Woby is designed to be weaker than a beefalo and Walter design is he doesn't want to get hit at all, why would you dismount your beefalo to fight as Walter? Walter is someone that only gains when having a beefalo, you don't see how tedious maintaining yourself as wolfgang, maintaining the beefalo and also utilizing the beefalo would be.

I frequent these forums a lot (I have no life & just sit around talking about my favorite games all day because it brings me joy to communicate with other passionate players/devs over the games we enjoy)

Because I frequent these forums a lot.. I Read almost everything, and try to understand every view point (including Klei’s) there is a post here:

That if this actually ended up in the game would mean: Klei actually intended for you to get that Day One Beefalo Mount.. I think it’s a fair trade off to be honest: Remove his Speed from the game completely.. (since Klei wants you to get a Beefalo anyway) and instead let the Beefalo be BOTH a means of getting Speed AND a way of Working out without needing to build another Gym somewhere on the map.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I can't hope that they added these datamined things same as I can't hope for the return of Wolfgang's speed

so I'll stick to debating what we have for now.

[Blunty_x]

Ahem. I just wanted to say...if it's Kleis intention to force me to get a beefalo, then they're lame because part of choosing Wolf, or Wortox or supercharging WX is so you don't have to ride a goddam beefalo. Beefalos are wack and I don't like them..this concludes my rant 

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Blunty_x said:

Ahem. I just wanted to say...if it's Kleis intention to force me to get a beefalo, then they're lame because part of choosing Wolf, or Wortox or supercharging WX is so you don't have to ride a goddam beefalo. Beefalos are wack and I don't like them..this concludes my rant 

Hey man don't be hateful, there could be beefalos on the forum right now!

Spoiler

Jk

 

[IanKSB91]

I have been playing with Wolfgang this week while waiting for his rework and although I enjoy going slow I can really see why others enjoy his speed jaja is fun seeing him going "Fiuuuuum" through the cobblestones, is like having an ornery beefalo without having an ornery beefalo and Im telling you this as someone who has an ornery beefalo jaja.

Spoiler

His name is Weefalo Beefalandro jaja 

 

[Scrimbles]

Quote

Wolfgang dosen't have any advantage in the game besides bosses right now.

The amount of hyperbole I see going around is just... incredible.

[Gi-Go]

22 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

The amount of hyperbole I see going around is just... incredible.

Number 13 was edited to show my view point better. 

4 hours ago, Blunty_x said:

Ahem. I just wanted to say...if it's Kleis intention to force me to get a beefalo, then they're lame because part of choosing Wolf, or Wortox or supercharging WX is so you don't have to ride a goddam beefalo. Beefalos are wack and I don't like them..this concludes my rant 

I think beefalo rework is a better characters rework than the actual character reworks, and is the best addition to the game. period. 

But you are absolutely right - not everyone and not every time wants to use beefalo. And Wolfgang perks have the highest collision with beef. 

[bagherthegamer]

4 hours ago, Blunty_x said:

Ahem. I just wanted to say...if it's Kleis intention to force me to get a beefalo, then they're lame because part of choosing Wolf, or Wortox or supercharging WX is so you don't have to ride a goddam beefalo. Beefalos are wack and I don't like them..this concludes my rant 

 

31 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Number 13 was edited to show my view point better. 

I think beefalo rework is a better characters rework than the actual character reworks, and is the best addition to the game. period. 

But you are absolutely right - not everyone and not every time wants to use beefalo. And Wolfgang perks have the highest collision with beef. 

As someone who has a rider beefalo always tamed on every world they played, Completly agree that it shouldnt be forced task upon the player. It took so long to finally learn the mechanics behind it and it makes life hell for me when my beefalo dies or when it just doesnt let me ride it. 

Howeveeeeerr, +66% speed boost for Normal beef, +87% for rider beef and +100% speed for rider and glossamer saddle combo and its all free once the beef is tamed.

The 20 torture you endure to tame a beef is worth it in my opinion. 

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, bagherthegamer said:

Beefalo

Absolutely in love with beefalo playstyle as a Wes main. I love to play this challenge boy for the sake of working around his downsides. And while obtaining power weapons like night sword, glass cutter and night stick was my way to deal with smol damage on regular enemies, there was absolutely no way to work around being very weak in raid boss fights without doing cheese. Wes was so weak in some of those, that i desided killing a raid boss more than once is just not worth the trouble. But with the new beefalo, even brutal downside like small damage can be worked around. 

[eldr1ch]

7 hours ago, elthodoido said:

While I really want to like this rework as it is, I feel like the New Wolfgang' play style became so much "static". We lost the speed and we're linked to a place (gym) or standing (afking) for some seconds, and that's less fun (to me at least), i don't want to be forced to have downtimes.

This. Nerf speed - I don't care that much - but the new playstyle is so unfun...

[Mangrove]

8 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Having speed dosen't temper with his strongman theme. Strong people can run fast too.

Yes, and plenty of characters have perks that aren't tied to their professions. Besides, running is a great way for strongmen to build up their stamina, it's not unheard of.

8 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

I haven't heard a single good reason for speed removal.

The how or why still eludes me as well.

8 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Unintended things should not be removed. Anenemy voltgoat farm, pig bait cage, ancient guardian cheese with minimal gear, and many more. Everyone loves to be efficient, even if that's not how the game was designed.

Yeah, fun accidents that eventually become features is a big part of making games. Whole games have been designed around a fun bug in early development (GTA comes to mind, it intended to be a street racer). It's a design decision to keep it or remove it.

 

Old Wolfgang encouraged action and never stopping with his speed and the rapid hunger drain. Players that enjoy this were drawn to him. New Wolfgang has many breaks in his gameplay that forces you to stay in one place, so you're not only slower but got all these time sinks added as well. Mechanics where you're happier the more you get to avoid them :/

I think the breaks in gameplay is a harsh enough penalty for him to get his speed back, although there are probably more fun solutions out there where you don't have to stay still

[Well-met]

1 hour ago, eldr1ch said:

This. Nerf speed - I don't care that much - but the new playstyle is so unfun...

you don't have to be mighty 24/7.

most people don't seem to realize being wimpy isn't terrible anymore.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

you don't have to be mighty 24/7.

most people don't seem to realize being wimpy isn't terrible anymore.

Bruh how is being wimpy not terrible it has all drawbacks to it, plus I wanna be the strongman, STRONGMAN. All his perks come from being mighty anyways.

[Blunty_x]

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

you don't have to be mighty 24/7.

most people don't seem to realize being wimpy isn't terrible anymore.

That's the thing. Don't you see. I just played the patch. Wolfgang is so fuckin boring. I spent the first 8 days wimpy. Cause standing there with a barbell for 5+minutes to get big was lame AF. The only reason to be mighty is for 2x dmg...otherwise what's the point to carry statues? To Chop faster? Which by the way from what I've seen is negligible..I hoped into my world got excited that I saw a juicy berry bush then was reminded that my world was dead when I saw that barbell. Lol

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Well-met said:

you don't have to be mighty 24/7.

most people don't seem to realize being wimpy isn't terrible anymore.

that is only worth if you are near a gym, if not you will need to stand still for many seconds to get mighty before a fight so you end up being might 90% of the time because is way less annoying to stop just few seconds every few minutes than being afk half minute per day

edit: i just wrote random numbers but the idea is the same

[HowlVoid]

Not gonna lie, this character is really weird now... I couldn't stand it, I'm sorry, this feels so broken.  

No other character has 1 substantial perk and then have that perk be time gated. I wanted to use my one powerful perk to fight some pigs but being forced to stand still hurt and keep braking my flow in the game.  

He is Wilson until he's no longer Wilson and then you have to careful or you turn to a worse Wes. That is the best I can describe it. 

You have to put in a lot of time and effort to deal 2x, for what? A few minutes of fun? Then go back to meter management simulator? 

He's not just boring outside of battle, it's worse, he's a chore.

Ha~ I've never been so happy to be unaffected by an update. I'm not even exaggerating, this feels like they picked up a random developer of the internet, gave them a quick explanation of who Wolfgang is and told them to start on the refresh.

Ok, rant over, again I'm very sorry, miss me with this refresh, here I come Wormwood world #12837464738

[GelatinousCube]

14 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

What happens next I'll leave in yours and klei's hands. Thanks for having me, you've all been a great audience and made me have a good time. Goodbye.

Bye Felicia!

[Blunty_x]

This guy knows what's up. This refresh has been underwhelming. And will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Basically you still have to manage hunger to keep the meter up, waste a slot to a dumbell, workout continuously which stops you in your tracks all for 2x dmg..which is nice sure when you have the time to workout otherwise wolf is prettyyyy underwhelming..the piggyback isn't a selling point, the marble suit isn't a selling point, rowing faster isn't a selling point, chopping and mining faster has been negligible at best. I spend more time in wimpy now but that's a huge hindrance cause it takes a lot longer to get mighty from wimpy so you constantly have to stop dumbell , mighty few seconds revert back to normal. 

 

Absolutely horrendous..Klei yall really botched this up..all they had to do was keep the speed and, leave the HP raise insanity to 25% and require the workout if they wanted it so bad , cause the workout is a nerf in itself since it's such a tedious time waste and people would've been OK with it. 

[Toroic]

11 hours ago, Blunty_x said:

That's the thing. Don't you see. I just played the patch. Wolfgang is so fuckin boring. I spent the first 8 days wimpy. Cause standing there with a barbell for 5+minutes to get big was lame AF. The only reason to be mighty is for 2x dmg...otherwise what's the point to carry statues? To Chop faster? Which by the way from what I've seen is negligible..I hoped into my world got excited that I saw a juicy berry bush then was reminded that my world was dead when I saw that barbell. Lol

50% more work is not “negligible” because you finish in 2/3 the time.  Large trees take only 10 chops, boulders 4 hits instead of 6 and maintaining mighty is easy if you upgrade a gym.

Staying wimpy for the first 8 or so days is normal unless you need to fight similar to how Wanda stays young because she doesn’t have a dark sword or alarming clock.

9 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Not gonna lie, this character is really weird now... I couldn't stand it, I'm sorry, this feels so broken.  

No other character has 1 substantial perk and then have that perk be time gated. I wanted to use my one powerful perk to fight some pigs but being forced to stand still hurt and keep braking my flow in the game.  

He is Wilson until he's no longer Wilson and then you have to careful or you turn to a worse Wes. That is the best I can describe it. 

You have to put in a lot of time and effort to deal 2x, for what? A few minutes of fun? Then go back to meter management simulator? 

He's not just boring outside of battle, it's worse, he's a chore.

Ha~ I've never been so happy to be unaffected by an update. I'm not even exaggerating, this feels like they picked up a random developer of the internet, gave them a quick explanation of who Wolfgang is and told them to start on the refresh.

Ok, rant over, again I'm very sorry, miss me with this refresh, here I come Wormwood world #12837464738

Sounds like you’re not using dumbbells and gyms properly.

A fully upgraded gym can give you 6.5 minutes of mighty in about 5 seconds.  If you are just exploring and don’t need mighty form specifically, you can get 16 minutes of non-wimpy for about 10 seconds or let yourself go wimpy for a long trip and spend 15 seconds to go 0-100.

If you’re relying on potato sacks or non-gembell to maintain mighty you’re going to feel like you’re wasting a ton of time, because you are.