The argument for a speed boost is being countered with an incorrect premise.

[Mangrove]

9 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

I'd be very surprised if it's not possible to reach a compromise with said players on a reduction in the power of mighty mode in exchange for speed

yeah, I'd be fine with a reduction of everything to get the speed back. Lower HP, increased sanity loss, increased durability loss of weapons and armor, reduced damage multiplier, faster mightiness drain...

[mr. brj]

40 minutes ago, Toros said:

These discussions often have two general camps of very vocal people.

1) People who only played Wolfgang for the mechancial power, so they don’t care that Wolfgang’s mechanics are more engaging now because a character having fun mechanics is irrelevant to how they choose a survivor.

2) People who didn’t play Wolf before, won’t play them now, and see his only value being having a speed boost to be able to take fights early without rushing magi or waiting for a cane.

This is rather... too generalizing?

When I play a solo world, there are two options I always consider: do I want to play a single character in this world or do I want to play a world where I switch characters as often as I need? As I tend to keep those worlds longer where I switch characters, I prefer not to waste any time in the first two years, so I can, starting from the third autumn, spend my time just derping around and decorating my base. It is true that Wolfgang's mechanical power is the reason I start as him, but I never even considered him being not fun. I love the thrill of "having" to rush everything in a short amount of time and I love to dedicate my time mass producing food that I know will only last for half a year. I simply don't get why people can't accept the fact that others can enjoy playing Wolfgang simply because he is Wolfgang. I enjoy planning the most optimal routes, I enjoy playing a character who rewards you for always being on the run, and I want to start building on my long-term world as soon as possible, all of which Wolfgang enables quite smoothly.

For the worlds I only play with a single character that I like (and I sometimes also choose Wolfgang in those worlds), I never end up revisiting them once I beat every major objective twice. This is why I prefer the long-term worlds, and Wolfgang always lets me start those worlds from scratch without needing me to spend a whole extra IRL day just for me to grab a pitchfork and plan my future base a week later. The "tryhard" Wolfgang everyone seems to complain about enables me the chill and casual gaming experience.

So no. I didn't play Wolfgang just for the mechanical power, I found him fun and I could create my own challenges with him. I don't find the current dumbbell mechanics engaging, and I don't find any fun in fighting the Ancient Guardian by being able to land only 1-2 hits in between kiting. I don't find having to rush the ruins fun if I want to rush bosses other than the dragonfly, and I don't find it fun to dig up cobblestones just to be able to fight the Shadow Chesspieces.

Yes, his speed boost had a quite big value, but being able to take bosses early on isn't for speedrun purposes only, it also enables the actual game progress to be faster. Plus as I explained in one of my own threads, Wolfgang primarily used to be a resource saver, and rushing a beefalo just to gain speed in further explorations contradicts with this role. The new Wolfgang is still a good character without his speed boost, and your modded Wolfgang, although I never tried the mod, seems to be a good character as well. They are just not the same character with the OG Wolfgang.

And I do care about the new Wolfgang's mechanics, I personally wish they combine it with his old perks, but if they don't, I can't complain. Either way, the dumbbells are in desperate need of tweaking, and because of everything else I wrote above, Wolfgang should keep his speed boost, which is the topic of this thread anyways.

[Gi-Go]

If klei can manage to give Wolfgang an interesting and powerful perk, I'll definetly let the speed removal slide. They, or fan suggestions haven't achieved doing that so far. Stuff like marble and piggy back just won't cut it, I'm a magiluminesence enjoyer, I'm not gonna use them, and I'm sure as HECK not gonna use them over magi now that the speed is gone. Stuff like Wolfgang chopes trees and mines rocks faster won't cut it either. Hammer is the tool of my choice and not because Wolfgang is a communist. 

But why would klei boil their brains out when there is a clear and simple solution to give speed back? Yes, that perk was an accident but so was my birth. Dosen't make it a bad thing. 

[HowlVoid]

4 hours ago, Toros said:

These discussions often have two general camps of very vocal people.

1) People who only played Wolfgang for the mechancial power, so they don’t care that Wolfgang’s mechanics are more engaging now because a character having fun mechanics is irrelevant to how they choose a survivor.

There is nothing wrong with someone who enjoys a character simply for what perks they have. That is a major selling point for a character itself. 

Anyone who chooses Wolfgang because they are a great character for speedrunning and nothing else, well their opinion isn't any more or any less valid then yours. 

As for their mechanic being more enjoyable, not everyone shares that sentiment. 

Quote

2) People who didn’t play Wolf before, won’t play them now, and see his only value being having a speed boost to be able to take fights early without rushing magi or waiting for a cane.

What confuses me the most is since when did speedruns become taboo? 

At one point you said that Wanda was going to eclipse Wolfgang because their damage was enough to serve the same purpose but Wanda had a better end game. 

I think you were focusing too much on how you personally play Wolfgang because otherwise you would have realized that Wolfgang's early game is more than enough to separate him from Wanda.

Why is everyone acting like a character that can Speedrun so efficiently such a horrible thing? Wolfgang has hardly any endgame to speak off so he was great to pick up in a new world and rush to a boss with increasingly more and more challenges attached to make it more fun. Why is that suddenly not a valid way to play the game? Because it's easy? How many people can do beequeen with no healing? How many people can do enraged dragonfly with no walls?

Quote

It’s absolutely true that Wolf is worse for boss-rushing now because if you can kite perfectly or nearly perfectly you didn’t need his damage in the first place, so the challenges he could take on uniquely required his speed boost.

"OR near perfectly" is the key word here. An easily accessible increase in damage and speed right out the gate compensates for mistakes, it compensates the need for certain items, it compensates for bad rng, it compensates for lack of early game resources like food and armor.

What others fail to see is that the damage and speed go hand in hand. You can't remove one and then start talking about old wolf, the unique combination of those two perks is what made Wolfgang, Wolfgang. 

Now let's me talk about the general camp people fall into who are apposed to his speed:

Because it doesn't fit his kit. The grandfather of the speed buff, the original, the one who is the first character to have speed, doesn't deserve speed? Because he is a strong man? Strongmen have some of the greatest burst in energy and endurance so it can't be that. At one point this made sense to Klei too, otherwise they wouldn't have added it to him in the first place. 

Because there are so many characters with speed buffs? He was the origin of the speed buff, the other characters came AFTER him, why should he be at fault for that? 

Because speed is easy "mode", yet his damage perk is greater than ever. The speed he put out during battle has not hampered his ability to do damage because his damage is now a solid 2x. 

Quote

Now he has unique interactions with marble and piggybacks (he negates the downsides, similar to old wanda and night armor) which lets him use marble that is usually a niche/unpopular option as a cheap, superior armor choice.

The reason why marble armor is nich isn't because of the speed penalty, is because it it is cumbersome to obtain. Marble trees take a long time to acquire, to grow, to mine, have small returns and take up a lot of space. Wolfgang himself has 0 gathering perks. Not only that but he used to do this before, with his speed buff. The penalty marble armor and the piggyback had on him was none to minimal back then too. Everyone on beefalo can carry these items with no penalty too. 

Marble armor is anything but cheap, people are going out of their way to make this niche perk greater than it is. We use pig helmets because food is cheap and pig helmets are cheap, there isn't suddenly going to be a big fluctuation of people using marble armor over pig helmets unless they are deliberately going out of their way to justify the perk.

Quote

 Piggyback has 4 more slots than a backpack, and only 2 less than a krampus sack and can be gotten early.

Anyone with a beefalo can do this too. Unless you have major inventory management problems you won't need the extra inventory space and late game there is no reason not to try and acquire a krampus sack. Matter of fact I don't I have ever seen someone with a world over 1000 days who didn't have one. 

Quote

 Shield of terror now deals consistent 102 damage which is a great threshold on an item that is easy to repair and provides protection as well.

He is as much as a powerhouse as ever, nothing has changed there.

Quote

He’s a combat generalist and that remains a very effective role.  The only thing he’s worse at is speedrunning a specific boss.  I’m not even sure if he’s slower at a full clear than he was before.

Except he isn't a generalist at all, because he only does one thing in combat consistently and that is damage. Wigfrid is a far better generalist whose perks grow exponentially for every added player to the group. Wolfgang on the other hand gets diminishing returns as the group grows and the more his usefulness dwindles in battle, the more of a handicap he becomes to the group as he drains more and more stone for a one trick pony role. 

What I'm trying to say, if Wolfgang is meant to be the best, then let him be the best. A mighty Goliath who can fell any foe straight from spawn.

[Cloakingsumo198]

28 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

There is nothing wrong with someone who enjoys a character simply for what perks they have. That is a major selling point for a character itself. 

Anyone who chooses Wolfgang because they are a great character for speedrunning and nothing else, well their opinion isn't any more or any less valid then yours. 

As for their mechanic being more enjoyable, not everyone shares that sentiment. 

What confuses me the most is since when are speedruns taboo? 

At one point you said that Wanda was going to eclipse Wolfgang because their damage was enough to serve the same purpose but Wanda had a better end game. 

I think you were focusing too much on how you personally play Wolfgang because otherwise you would have realized that Wolfgang's early game is more than enough to separate him from Wanda.

Why is everyone acting like a character that can Speedrun so efficiently such a horrible thing? Wolfgang has hardly any endgame to speak off so he was great to pick up in a new world and rush to a boss with increasingly more and more challenges attached to make it more fun. Why is that suddenly not a valid way to play the game? Because it's easy? How many people can do beequeen with no healing? How many people can do enraged dragonfly with no walls?

"OR near perfectly" is the key word here. An easily accessible increase in damage and speed right out the gate compensates for mistakes, it compensates the need for certain items, it compensates for bad rng, it compensates for lack of early game resources.

What others fail to see is that the damage and speed go hand in hand. You can't remove one and then start talking about old wolf, the unique combination of those two perks is what made Wolfgang, Wolfgang. 

Now let's me talk about the general camp people fall into who are apposed to his speed:

Because it doesn't fit his kit. The grandfather of the speed buff, the original, the one who is the first character to have speed, doesn't deserve speed? Because he is a strong man? Strongmen have some of the greatest burst in energy and endurance so it can't be that. At one point this made sense to Klei too, otherwise they wouldn't have added it to him in the first place. 

Because there are so many characters with speed buffs? He was the origin of speed buffs, the other characters came AFTER him, why should he be at fault for that? 

Because speed is easy "mode", yet his damage perk is greater than ever. The speed he put out during battle has not hampered his ability to do damage because his damage is now a solid 2x. 

The reason why marble armor is nich isn't because of the speed penalty, is because it it is cumbersome to obtain. Marble trees take a long time to acquire, to grow, to mine, and take up a lot of space. Wolfgang himself has 0 gathering perks. Not only that but he used to do this before, with his speed buff. The penalty marble armor and the piggyback had on him was none to minimal back then too. Everyone on beefalo can carry these items with no penalty too. 

Marble armor is anything but cheap, people are going out of their way to make this niche perk greater than it is. We use pig helmets because food is cheap and pig helmets are cheap, there isn't suddenly going to be a big fluctuation of people using marble armor over pig helmets unless they are deliberately going out of their way to justify the perk.

Anyone with a beefalo can do this too. Unless you have major inventory management problems you won't need the extra inventory space and late game there is no reason not to try and acquire a krampus sack. Matter of fact I don't I have ever seen someone with a world over 1000 days who didn't have one. 

He is as much as a powerhouse as ever, nothing has changed there.

Except he isn't a generalist at all, because he only does one thing in combat consistently and that is damage. Wigfrid is a far better generalist whose perks grow exponentially for every added player to the group. Wolfgang on the other hand gets diminishing returns as the group grows and the more his usefulness dwindles in battle, the more of a handicap he becomes to the group as he drains more and more stone for a one trick pony role. 

Viewing the big picture everybody, not "forcing a revert" not "forcing his nerfs to stick"

[Well-met]

tl;dr speedy wolfgang is essential to kill bosses faster than normal because people dont like the multiplayer aspect of DST

good riddance tbh

[Mangrove]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Yes, that perk was an accident but so was my birth

I see this mentioned a lot, why is it considered a problem? Plenty of game features are based on accidents and they're kept around when they're fun. It's a part of making games. If klei didn't like it or felt it didn't fit his character, they would just have fixed it

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 hours ago, Well-met said:

tl;dr speedy wolfgang is essential to kill bosses faster than normal because people dont like the multiplayer aspect of DST

good riddance tbh

I bet you hate anybody that doesn't immediately run to get new spawns at the postern

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Mangrove said:

I see this mentioned a lot, why is it considered a problem? Plenty of game features are based on accidents and they're kept around when they're fun. It's a part of making games. If klei didn't like it or felt it didn't fit his character, they would just have fixed it

This is false, they wanted him to be Mighty.. and back in 2013, they didn’t really know how to portray his “Might” it’s been almost 10 years but amazing new ideas are being thought up to better portray “Might” beyond just moving fast and hitting hard.

Pretty sure Klei wouldn’t have removed it with his rework if they felt it was fine.

[Well-met]

6 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I bet you hate anybody that doesn't immediately run to get new spawns at the postern

I dislike the celestial portal due to how easily unlocked and abusable it is, yes.

[Mangrove]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Pretty sure Klei wouldn’t have removed it with his rework if they felt it was fine.

Sure, it's no longer deemed fine, but I have a feeling that being an accident isn't what they think is problematic about it

[Erineyes7]

8 hours ago, Well-met said:

tl;dr speedy wolfgang is essential to kill bosses faster than normal because people dont like the multiplayer aspect of DST

good riddance tbh

What? You do know the speed boost was applied to every facet of the game, not just bosses, and it provided him the option to be great at getting things done quickly. 

And what do you mean the not liking the multiplayer aspect? How?

[Mike23Ua]

33 minutes ago, Erineyes7 said:

What? You do know the speed boost was applied to every facet of the game, not just bosses, and it provided him the option to be great at getting things done quickly. 

And what do you mean the not liking the multiplayer aspect? How?

I explained this once: but a Avid Wolfgang player will only see things from that point of view and can’t be budged from it.. meanwhile: Someone trying to explain Why Speed was bad on a 2x Damage character in a Multiplayer game will just continue to be met with: Your trying to bring my main down! 

There is no common sense middle ground where either side can come to a mutual middle ground agreement because one side will see something as OP and try to express why it is that way, while the other side will see it as NOT OP and try to express why it isn’t while not ever understanding the other sides view point.

For ME in Particular it was like playing an MMO where I’m a level 5 Character In an Area fighting Level 6-7 enemies, it’s a grind and a fun fair challenge there I am enjoying the content when a level 150 comes through the area and destroys everything in sight before my very eyes and then leaves the area.. now tell me HOW that is Me playing and enjoying my game??? It’s not: And that’s why I Hate MMO’s- I hate comparing DST to an MMO because I HATE MMO’s with a deep flaming passion- But.. Wolfgang was the equivalent of that: He Hit enemies with double the damage AND Speed around the map just for cramming a few carrots in his mouth quite literally clearing out the entire map without me who wants to play the game WITH MY FRIEND ever being able to catch up to and be near him because he’s always going Andale Andale YEE-HAW and then hitting things as if his fists were like being hit by a locomotive train.

We don’t want to “gut” your character, we just want him to be more of a “Team Player” someone who I can actually play the game with my Wolfgang friend without him out running me and murdering everything the game has to offer.

Hopefully you can at the very least.. finally understand My view point. If no one else's

some people are rude and say hateful things like hahaha your characters getting Nerfed it’s about time he got brought down a leg or two! That’s not my stance: I just want to play the game WITH MY FRIEND without feeling like I’m just coming along behind him to pick up whatever he left laying around in his wake.

I am a WENDY MAIN so you should maybe think about that… because I just described Wendy: Except Wendy has a cool perk which benefits the damage of anyone attacking WITH HER and also a cool Sanity Structure to help the not so skilled players more easily manage sanity.

I don’t play Wendy because she trivializes the entire game: I play her because her playstyle allows me to be more of a TEAM Player.. I can provide sanity stations, top hats, I can even choose to give my friend all my lanterns and torches while I rely solely upon the ghostly glow of my sister.

I do not want someone’s favorite character to EVER become unfun for them… I just want it to BECOME fun for me to play alongside my friend who chooses them.

[Cloakingsumo198]

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I explained this once: but a Avid Wolfgang player will only see things from that point of view and can’t be budged from it.. meanwhile: Someone trying to explain Why Speed was bad on a 2x Damage character in a Multiplayer game will just continue to be met with: Your trying to bring my main down! 

There is no common sense middle ground where either side can come to a mutual middle ground agreement because one side will see something as OP and try to express why it is that way, while the other side will see it as NOT OP and try to express why it isn’t while not ever understanding the other sides view point.

For ME in Particular it was like playing an MMO where I’m a level 5 Character In an Area fighting Level 6-7 enemies, it’s a grind and a fun fair challenge there I am enjoying the content when a level 150 comes through the area and destroys everything in sight before my very eyes and then leaves the area.. now tell me HOW that is Me playing and enjoying my game??? It’s not: And that’s why I Hate MMO’s- I hate comparing DST to an MMO because I HATE MMO’s with a deep flaming passion- But.. Wolfgang was the equivalent of that: He Hit enemies with double the damage AND Speed around the map just for cramming a few carrots in his mouth quite literally clearing out the entire map without me who wants to play the game WITH MY FRIEND ever being able to catch up to and be near him because he’s always going Andale Andale YEE-HAW and then hitting things as if his fists were like being hit by a locomotive train.

We don’t want to “gut” your character, we just want him to be more of a “Team Player” someone who I can actually play the game with my Wolfgang friend without him out running me and murdering everything the game has to offer.

Hopefully you can at the very least.. finally understand My view point. If no one else's

some people are rude and say hateful things like hahaha your characters getting Nerfed it’s about time he got brought down a leg or two! That’s not my stance: I just want to play the game WITH MY FRIEND without feeling like I’m just coming along behind him to pick up whatever he left laying around in his wake.

I am a WENDY MAIN so you should maybe think about that… because I just described Wendy: Except Wendy has a cool perk which benefits the damage of anyone attacking WITH HER and also a cool Sanity Structure to help the not so skilled players more easily manage sanity.

I don’t play Wendy because she trivializes the entire game: I play her because her playstyle allows me to be more of a TEAM Player.. I can provide sanity stations, top hats, I can even choose to give my friend all my lanterns and torches while I rely solely upon the ghostly glow of my sister.

I do not want someone’s favorite character to EVER become unfun for them… I just want it to BECOME fun for me to play alongside my friend who chooses them.

I've though up of a solution for you and your friend..... Become Wolfgang too and be battle buddies.(jkjk)

 

 

I believe you'll gain the respect of these Wolfgang mains or at least gain some common ground with them if you offered alternatives for snatching their speed away. And not something completely different from what he used to do but still gives him that feel of reward for being mighty, and it's always been about time or speed for wolf mains. Wolfgang deserves his own mold and shouldn't be regulated to acting like the other survivors.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I explained this once: but a Avid Wolfgang player will only see things from that point of view and can’t be budged from it.. meanwhile: Someone trying to explain Why Speed was bad on a 2x Damage character in a Multiplayer game will just continue to be met with: Your trying to bring my main down! 

why are making this efforts to nerf wolfgang when you don't play him neither kill bosses? 

this character doesnt affect you

[SinancoTheBest]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this character doesnt affect you

That's a bit rude don't you think? You don't have to actively play a character in order to have opinions on how their mechanics and gameplay affects how the game is played, items and resources are managed and overall interactions and team dynamics function. I think it's a valid criticism that the old Wolfgang had everything under his belt; power, speed and survivability while the rework properly specializes his role in a team to what he has always been seen as by his teammates: a heavy hitting strongman.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, SinancoTheBest said:

That's a bit rude don't you think? You don't have to actively play a character in order to have opinions on how their mechanics and gameplay affects how the game is played, items and resources are managed and overall interactions and team dynamics function. I think it's a valid criticism that the old Wolfgang had everything under his belt; power, speed and survivability while the rework properly specializes his role in a team to what he has always been seen as by his teammates: a heavy hitting strongman.

i know and i guess i should just ignore his message but that much effort just to disturb people or to play somekind of tryhard rol is sad to see

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

That's a bit rude don't you think? You don't have to actively play a character in order to have opinions on how their mechanics and gameplay affects how the game is played, items and resources are managed and overall interactions and team dynamics function. I think it's a valid criticism that the old Wolfgang had everything under his belt; power, speed and survivability while the rework properly specializes his role in a team to what he has always been seen as by his teammates: a heavy hitting strongman.

You see but when you play one character long enough you know them better. What their weaknesses and strengths are not just reading arbitrary perks and downsides you know how they play in game not in theory.  Wolfgang had his own play style original Wolfgang players know this rework butchered that old style.  Alot of complaints involve the fact that the perks aren't brand new they don't change his actual gameplay loop they don't feel as fluid they are just different.  And so people looking inward have bias to this character they likely won't be playing anyways cause if they didn't like him before why would they like him now.

[ILWES]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:21 AM, Masked Koopa said:

I think it's well worth pointing out that the most vocal proponents of a speed boost are by no means bad players - the entire reason the perk is held near and dear to many is that it allows thresholds that otherwise require largely time-gated items to obtain. While damage is obviously nothing to sneeze at, it's not something a diehard Wolfgang player is actually going to need, and I'd be very surprised if it's not possible to reach a compromise with said players on a reduction in the power of mighty mode in exchange for speed.

It's also pretty important to point out that Wolfgang is a longstanding character, who's had this speed for a good long while. While Wolfgang as a brand new character would likely not have the speed, he's been around for enough time that removing it now doesn't feel like a correction, it feels like a feature being taken away. 

And this wouldn't even be so bad if the rework had introduced other facets to his character. While I'm sure it would still upset some players, it would at least leave an interesting character in place of  the old wolfgang if the content introduced had given him a bunch of new features to play around with - but this just isn't the case. This is the first character refresh where all the content has essentially just been a nerf + a moving of a mechanic to a different feature. And what makes it worse is that wolfgang had very little to his name in the first place - wigfrid was already a much, MUCH more potent team player than wolfgang could have ever been, and wolf was pretty much only relegated to solo players or people who enjoy going off on their own to do difficult tasks for their team. Wolfgang has been made notably worse at the latter, and has gained nothing for the former. He's a worse team player than before, as he now has to use much more useful resources than food to build up mightiness, and to make matters worse, he can't even use his mightiness to offset this resource loss the way he could by killing enemies with his strength.

I'll gladly concede that wolfgang was too powerful before the rework, but the same argument can just as easily be made for the current wolfgang. What makes wolfgang an unreasonable presence in your average scenario is that he saves practically all resources in a fight. He's still killing everything twice as fast in half the hits, but now he's able to be pushed less far by those who previously could use his speed benchmark for good kiting. If anything needed a nerf, it was his damage and/or weapons working on a per hit basis instead of a damage dealt one. 

And it's a real shame too, because this rework could have easily gone in a direction of allowing wolfgang to train specific stats instead of just damage - perhaps you can divide your training between speed, damage resist, and damage? With things like a treadmill, a punching bag, etc depending on what stat you want to train, and with the mobile versions being things like a skipping rope (for example).

It also would have been nice to see other characters be able to use the handheld barbells on the lowest stage for a bit of extra damage, or some sort of passive he gives by being near his team. Hell, make it so he builds wigfrid's inspiration if he fights with her. There's a lot of room for much more interesting and new mechanics with this rework, and I'm sure you'd get a much more understanding stance from those who want his old playstyle back, because at least then the rework would be more than some strange attempt to nerf him. 

You really had time for that? Just do esseys for money if you have that much time. Or reject nerding and become wolfgang

[Cloakingsumo198]

5 minutes ago, ILWES said:

You really had time for that? Just do esseys for money if you have that much time. Or reject nerding and become wolfgang

[Blunty_x]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, Cloakingsumo198 said:

If you played with a friend you'd basically have wolf damage and still all your other interesting character quirks.  Lifting weights isn't fun nor more intuitive than collecting up food to eat while fighting especially since healing items in the form of food exists.

The whole premise of Wolfgang is the power of two people packed into one man and he had to eat like two people too

Wolfgang the resource dump that had to work with haste to make up for his fuel cost in order to achieve his buffs and increased stats.

Mighty was always the Wolfgang goal it held your damage, it held you increased HP pool, and it had utility with it's speed buff.

Normal form had no buffs he was just a regular Wilson, that starved faster, with +50 hp, and a increased sanity drain

Wimpy form is suppose to be terrible it's what you wanna avoid because Wolfgang is literally wasting away in this form his damage would drop until it reaches to half, he ran 10% slower so he couldn't escape and he slowly lost his extra HP pool. The only advantage was that he could heal more efficiently in this form.

His whole character revolved around the fact that he is an absolute UNIT of a man, that when not properly taken care of, wasted away into a sad string, he isn't meant to play passively, he was suppose to deal with tasks that would in general put other survivors at risk.  He isn't smart to build complex contraptions to aid in survival or had cool mechanics unique to only him.  He was just strong in his stats, his body, himself. Most others with abit of ingenuity would accomplish everything he can do. But Wolfgang can't do what other characters have uniquely tied to only them.

 

This  brought a tear to my eye. 

On 12/14/2021 at 9:41 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I explained this once: but a Avid Wolfgang player will only see things from that point of view and can’t be budged from it.. meanwhile: Someone trying to explain Why Speed was bad on a 2x Damage character in a Multiplayer game will just continue to be met with: Your trying to bring my main down! 

There is no common sense middle ground where either side can come to a mutual middle ground agreement because one side will see something as OP and try to express why it is that way, while the other side will see it as NOT OP and try to express why it isn’t while not ever understanding the other sides view point.

For ME in Particular it was like playing an MMO where I’m a level 5 Character In an Area fighting Level 6-7 enemies, it’s a grind and a fun fair challenge there I am enjoying the content when a level 150 comes through the area and destroys everything in sight before my very eyes and then leaves the area.. now tell me HOW that is Me playing and enjoying my game??? It’s not: And that’s why I Hate MMO’s- I hate comparing DST to an MMO because I HATE MMO’s with a deep flaming passion- But.. Wolfgang was the equivalent of that: He Hit enemies with double the damage AND Speed around the map just for cramming a few carrots in his mouth quite literally clearing out the entire map without me who wants to play the game WITH MY FRIEND ever being able to catch up to and be near him because he’s always going Andale Andale YEE-HAW and then hitting things as if his fists were like being hit by a locomotive train.

We don’t want to “gut” your character, we just want him to be more of a “Team Player” someone who I can actually play the game with my Wolfgang friend without him out running me and murdering everything the game has to offer.

Hopefully you can at the very least.. finally understand My view point. If no one else's

some people are rude and say hateful things like hahaha your characters getting Nerfed it’s about time he got brought down a leg or two! That’s not my stance: I just want to play the game WITH MY FRIEND without feeling like I’m just coming along behind him to pick up whatever he left laying around in his wake.

I am a WENDY MAIN so you should maybe think about that… because I just described Wendy: Except Wendy has a cool perk which benefits the damage of anyone attacking WITH HER and also a cool Sanity Structure to help the not so skilled players more easily manage sanity.

I don’t play Wendy because she trivializes the entire game: I play her because her playstyle allows me to be more of a TEAM Player.. I can provide sanity stations, top hats, I can even choose to give my friend all my lanterns and torches while I rely solely upon the ghostly glow of my sister.

I do not want someone’s favorite character to EVER become unfun for them… I just want it to BECOME fun for me to play alongside my friend who chooses them.

Wait wait what? So this Wolfgang is a better team player why exactly? Because you can run along side him? He is even worse than before as far as team play goes. Cause now he gets left behind or slows down objectives while he pumps his weights, his weights will constantly be a drain on resources for very little gain in the long run in a team setting where his use is diminished as more players join. 

Of course this comes from a Wendy main arguably one of the best in the game and trivializes everything but some bosses. 

 

Idk this Rework is fishy and I hate it. I also arguably had the most fun playing Wolfgang today that I've had in awhile. Because I played with friends and we just **** on his new mechanics the whole time, so he has been good for a laugh atleast.