Ocean Content Concepts

[MikoFanboy]

9 hours ago, Hornete said:

You don't even sound you like even gave a thought on how DST boat combat could be improved, you just went straight away to "ok add SW boats" in not even more than 3 sentences.

Please, I insist that you try to be a bit more creative, game design is a tough task! I can understand if it's hard for you to think of how DST boats can be improved, it's why so much content can be cut from the game, because some things are just problematic and don't work. There's so many questions you need to answer for yourself when creating new content and thinking about how it can work. So again, I can completely understand if it's very tough for you to think of something.

For me, one of the problems right now with boat combat and just them in general is 1. Not enough leak repairing options (Currently you have to get a land exclusive item, that being stingers to ensure you have a way to repair leaks) It's oddly limiting even after two years of the ocean existing we've only gotten one more healing option, that being tree jam, which I do really like mid/late-game but I still feel we need lots more, just like how we have a lot of healing options for the players themselves! and 2. It can be hard to manuever a boat all by yourself, hence why I suggested we could get a new type of mob, or a new ability to existing mobs(pigmen, etc) where they can help you row or perform certain boat actions! Not only could this really help with bosses like Malbatross and especially Crab King, but it can be a really nice addition of flavor to the ocean if it's a brand new mob. 
 

my apologies for the lack of creativity when I end up with a conclusion is "cookie boat does not work well with combat" and I would like to hear any of your creative ideas that can improve the combat of the boat 

Base on my uncreative brain, I can only see the selling point of the cookie boat is to have more than 2 people in it and being a some what of a moving mini base. My experience with game that allow you to build a base on your boat tend to not tell you to use that boat to enter combat unless they use cannon to shoot other boat, those game either have you to swim and fight the monster out of your boat or give you a smaller boat to enter the fight, but I guess game made by uncreative dev like that only fit with my uncreative playstyle 

 

10 hours ago, Hornete said:

Boats were improved by so much in Waterlogged, that some of my friends use exclusively oars to sail around because of the controlability and buffed speeds, I think theyre a bit insane to use only oars, but they are really amazing in controllability so I can understand. 

oh, that nice, and?
Crab king still is the worst DST boss and malbatross boss fight still as annoying/ easy as before even with the speed boost 

in my uncreative opinion, combat need smooth controllability of your movement, the closest thing I can compare the boat movement in combat to is "when player being lag during the boss fight on land" and boss like malbatross being designed around that so it act... perhaps a little too chill? I don't feel like I fight a boss at all

also have i mentioned that malbatross has an attack that destroy stuff on your boat? yeah, the boat that allow you to build stuff on as it's specialty compare to sw boat

then you will tell me to make a new boat to fight boss instead of the mini base boat 

but if I do that, then what make it better than SW boat? like I said, building stuff on it is it's specialty, but what's the point when you have to make a new, blank boat for the combat, plus the harder control, and a boss that doesn't feel like it try, then you have a boring combat

combat in DST isn't some thing special, I would say it's boring overused kiting type of combat, but what make a boss fight unique is the attack of the boss themself

ocean boss can't have an amazing attack because it know that player on boat can't react to that due to the delay of the boat 

so how can I be creative when the boat limitation doesn't allow me to? can you be creative and give me an idea?, that would be nice 

11 hours ago, Hornete said:

Whether you like it or not, every piece of ocean content has been designed around the cookie boats. Not SW boats

that's why it's boring and it make everthing around it boring...

when you try new thing and it fail, you either try some newer or go back to what work and Improve it more, not continue makeing everthing fail with it ...

I want to make it clear, the cookie boat isn't fully a fail imo, as  it still does something unique that SW can't that is to have more than 2 player and can be build on

11 hours ago, Hornete said:

Klei is not going to waste essentially 2+ years of time designing content around cookie boats to then add SW boats. It's an extremely unreasonable thing to ask for.

I would like to remind to you that they waste 7+ year for the old farm just to add a new farming systerm later on, then we have character rework,...

that is a part or game developer, it's suck? yes, but it give them the experience to improve later, so it's not a waste

PLUS, I don't say that they have to delete the cookie boat and  everything desgined around the it.

They CAN KEEP IT because it still does something unique that SW can't that is to have more than 1 player and can be build on,

But for other thing that the cookie boat CAN'T DO WELL (combat and traveling in small space), that's where the SW boat come to the rescue, monster can have 2 type of attack ya know? like in SW monster can attack both in water and on land, I see no reason why those can't have 2 type of attack, one for the cookie boat and one for the SW boat

the cookie boat is like an RV, but just because you have an RV doesn't mean you can use it for the battle like a tank 

the boat problem is it only good at one or two things but trying to be used for everthing and the dev trying to make every around it,

making not the boat suck but everthing around it suck too
 

[Capybara007]

7 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

I would like to remind to you that they waste 7+ year for the old farm just to add a new farming systerm later on, then we have character rework,...

That example is very weak, the old farming system was no near as deep as the current ocean, that its directer to dst boats

Cutting off the old farm to replace them with new ones wasnt a "time waste" as you describe it

Adding sw boats will totally destroy the actual deept and work they put into designing dst boats content

[MikoFanboy]

27 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

That example is very weak, the old farming system was no near as deep as the current ocean, that its directer to dst boats

Cutting off the old farm to replace them with new ones wasnt a "time waste" as you describe it

Adding sw boats will totally destroy the actual deept and work they put into designing dst boats content

my point in that part is "it's ok to start all over again" 

also why did you conveniently ignore the other point of my long comment? like the "2 boat can both exist, nothing need to be deleted" 

 

 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

23 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

my point in that part is "it's ok to start all over again" 

also why did you conveniently ignore the other point of my long comment? like the "2 boat can both exist, nothing need to be deleted" 

 

 

 

to much time wasted to downgrade the game

[MikoFanboy]

40 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Adding sw boats will totally destroy the actual deept and work they put into designing dst boats content

my apologies but I fail to see how is it a case

SW boat only better at travelling in small space, freely control the movement of the character for easier combat

it can't not let you build a mini base in the ocean, can't carry more than 1 person and can't use Pinchin' Winch 

----------------------

listen, I think some of ya get the wrong idea of me 

despite all of the ranting, I'm actually LOVE the cookie boat, the idea of sailing with friend, build a mini moving base, decorating the boat, love it

I would even pay to have modder bring that boat to SW if I can

thing that it can do well, I absolutely love it 

but what I hate is the thing it clearly CAN"T do yet still be forced to do and start to drag everthing else to go down with it

why do I care so much about travelling in small space? because it allow the biome around that place to be filled with wonderful stuff, having that doesn't mean removing the big empty ocean, the empty part of the ocean should still be there, it just need to have some thing, a small biome perhap between it

why do I care so much about the combat? because not only it give every player a good time fighting the monster/boss, it allow the monster/boss to do more

 

[Capybara007]

2 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

my point in that part is "it's ok to start all over again" 

Its not, 2 whole years developing how rockjaws attack, how leaks work, how gnarwail attacks work, how seaweed projectiles work, that cant be compared to your example of "farms and character reworks", because these old farms and not touched characters had no deep, the current ocean does

And for your second point, you cannot put both of the boats, with the excuse of "nothing needs to be deleted" yeah sure nothing will need to be deleted because how overshadowed the cookie boats will be, absolutely no one will use the cookie boats even if the players had the option, crab king fight would be stupid, you just move with your water shoe to avoid the geisers and freeze, the seaweeds would be more of a joke, same for malbatross and cookie cutters.

 

[MikoFanboy]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

to much time wasted to downgrade the game

I fell to see how adding stuff that compensate the thing old stuff can't do is a downgrade

did you guy still think I want to bring back the old and remove the new? No?

both are good at their own thing and none should be removed

[ArubaroBeefalo]

31 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

my point in that part is "it's ok to start all over again" 

 

you said this so yes, i though you mean that you even will be ok with rewriting everything

anyways, adding sw boats will need a lot of balance arround which wont be worth the time just to add such simple, bland and flat kind of gameplay

i wont be against little cheap rafts to have a cheap choice vs 4 boards for early game but with the downside of being little and uneable to build structures. Aswell that im totally in with the idea of having better boats like driftwood or living log boats, there is a point of the game that feels unsafe to travel with an expensive boat with just 200hp... a lot of materials can be lost for 1 mistake

[MikoFanboy]

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

cannot put both of the boats, with the excuse of "nothing needs to be deleted" yeah sure nothing will need to be deleted because how overshadowed the cookie boats will be, absolutely no one will use the cookie boats even if the players had the option, 

 

HA, so you admit that the SW boat is better than the cookie boat <(") congratulation you get the idea, or at least haft of it

for combat, SW boat absolutely destroy the cookie boat

but building a moving base that can carry more than 1 people, the cookie boat destory SW boat

I have already draw a quick sketch to show you how both type of boat can exist, go back and see it 

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

anyways, adding sw boats will need a lot of balance arround which wont be worth the time just to add such simple, bland and flat kind of gameplay

just buff the boss,bring back the waves systerm and make the boss do something unique with it.

Base building boat is not designed to be used in the fight anyway

since SW boat's heatlh is slowly decrease and usually the boss is super far from land, isn't it better to make the cookie boat to not only be a base, but also a repair center? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, MikoFanboy said:

HA, so you admit that the SW boat is better than the cookie boat <(") congratulation you get the idea, or at least haft of it

yes because you achive the same traveling (or even faster if speed mod are applied for some reason like in the single player version) without any affort

also klei would need to think what they add to be balanced arround the 2 mechanics

i mean, i understand that you like sw but makes 0 sense to add sw boats

10 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

both are good at their own thing and none should be removed

the thing is that you cant remove what isnt added, sw boats arent dst boats so klei doesnt have any obligation. You bought dst as a multiplayer RoG, thankfully we are getting dst updates, unique updates

[Capybara007]

Glad klei will never consider adding sw boats

[Dextops]

41 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

"2 boat can both exist, nothing need to be deleted"

no they can't
literally everything is based around the cookie boats
-crab king
-waterlogged
-cookie cutters
-grass gators
-water spiders
-rockjaw
the shipwrecked boats work with none of its mechanics other than going to other islands it worked for sw since a lot of its content was on islands but in dst that isn't the case

[MikoFanboy]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

yes because you achive the same traveling (or even faster if speed mod are applied for some reason like in the single player version) without any affort

also klei would need to think what they add to be balanced arround the 2 mechanics

i mean, i understand that you like sw but makes 0 sense to add sw boats

but SW is not designed to be use in DST world generation, it need the player to go back to the near by island to be fix or slop decreasing health,

fortunately the cookie boat solved this problem

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

for combat, SW boat absolutely destroy the cookie boat

 

that is your opinion, i love dst sea combat. Needing to row to follow a giant bird and calculate the inertia and speed to be able to hit the mob the maximum amont of hits until you need to row again (or sharing task with other players thing that cant be done with SW shoes) beats the flat "fground ighting in a giant shoe with a sail and getting speed bonus with mah cane"

also sw boats arent multiplayer friendly. DST boats beats in any gameplay aspect sw boats

and hurts to imaging how ridiculous will look having complex boats sailing arround of yisus with fancy shoes...

[cropo]

2 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

HA, so you admit that the SW boat is better than the cookie boat <(") congratulation you get the idea, or at least haft of it

for combat, SW boat absolutely destroy the cookie boat

but building a moving base that can carry more than 1 people, the cookie boat destory SW boat

I have already draw a quick sketch to show you how both type of boat can exist, go back and see it 

I mean it's quite clear that the Shipwrecked boats would absolutely steamroll the current boats. No amount of basebuilding sillyness would compensate for the control the SW boats gave you. 

 

Only thing I ''want'' from Ocean content is to not have another repeat of Pearls quest where you  have to do it to advance the main content of the game. I can easily switch to Woodie and fly as a chicken to lunar island and then build a boat-bridge there, or I can die and fly around as a ghost and find it.  Pearl has a ton of  VERY ANNOYING QUESTS  (to me) that cannot really be avoided if you want to progress the main island content further. It's to the point that I'm probably just gonna cheat in a pearls pearl eventually because that was probably the most hated experience I've ever had with this game.  Lunar Storms came to a close second but I had more agency in my movement and combat to deal with it where Ocean content severely lacks that.

 

A majority of the ocean is useless for any average player unless you really really like the novelty of obnoxious sailing mechanics, fragile boats, stupid mobs that seem to completely ignore hitstun with machine-gun AOE attacks and a nightmare creature that is ungodly annoying to deal with and you know what? Lets keep it that way, I hope the ocean stays unattractive and useless if the current mechanics stay so that I don't have to set foot in it at all to get things in the main areas to progress. 

Unless boats get some rework to their durability or ocean content becomes better balanced for the sailing mechanics; things I doubt will ever happen, I hope the ocean stays as quasi-useful and any additions to it can be circumvented by flying around as woodie and just building boat-bridges to reach it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

just buff the boss,bring back the waves systerm and make the boss do something unique with it.

Base building boat is not designed to be used in the fight anyway

since SW boat's heatlh is slowly decrease and usually the boss is super far from land, isn't it better to make the cookie boat to not only be a base, but also a repair center? 

why wasting time with things that already work

basebuilding can affect fights. You can block mobs to enter your boat, you can build stuff like flingos to CC mobs, you can build winona cheddar cheese or hondious, etc

sw boats health isnt a problem when you can have a backpack filled with boat repaire kits. That makes me remember that in sw your character healths is the boat healths, another thing to balance which means another thing to waste time for nothing good

[MikoFanboy]

21 minutes ago, Dextops said:

no they can't
literally everything is based around the cookie boats
-crab king
-waterlogged
-cookie cutters
-grass gators
-water spiders
-rockjaw
the shipwrecked boats work with none of its mechanics other than going to other islands it worked for sw since a lot of its content was on islands but in dst that isn't the case

yes they can, if Klei try ._. 

for monster, just give them a second attack for SW boat

malbatross just need some small buff and it's perfect for SW boat

Crab king NEED to be redesign anyway as it is "the worst DST boss" 

they can still allow player to put gem in it but this time the gem can give him better move, you know the blue gem buff actually go well SW boat more than Cookie boat with some small nerf 

waterlogged: you just need to ram yourself in it, maybe with a cost that it deal more damaged to SW boat than cookie boat (keep in mind that both boat exist) 

----------------

also as I say, since both type of boat exsit, you can choose to use what you want

obvious for fighting, SW boat is the one, but for stuff that SW boat CAN'T do, cookie boat is there

 

 

[cropo]

Just now, MikoFanboy said:

yes they can, if Klei try ._. 

for monster, just give them a second attack for SW boat

malbatross just need some small buff and it's perfect for SW boat

Crab king NEED to be redesign anyway as it is "the worst DST boss" 

they can still allow player to put gem in it but this time the gem can give him better move, you know the blue gem buff actually go well SW boat more than Cookie boat with some small nerf 

waterlogged: you just need to ram yourself in it, maybe with a cost that it deal more damaged to SW boat than cookie boat (keep in mind, boat)

----------------

also as I say, since both type of boat exsit, you can choose to use what you want

obvious for fighting, SW boat is the one, but for stuff that SW boat CAN'T do, cookie boat is there

 

 

I mean I agree with you that the cookie boats in their current state are an absolutely abysmal thing to deal with when I could just play SoT for that kind of sailing experience but they are right adding in SW boats would destroy the current ocean. You'd steamroll everything and there would be no reason at all to use the cookie boats, and they'd have to basically rework the entire ocean from the ground up to work with them. They absolutely would have to redo the entire ocean to make it work and it's far too late to do that.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, MikoFanboy said:

yes they can, if Klei try ._. 

for monster, just give them a second attack for SW boat

malbatross just need some small buff and it's perfect for SW boat

Crab king NEED to be redesign anyway as it is "the worst DST boss" 

they can still allow player to put gem in it but this time the gem can give him better move, you know the blue gem buff actually go well SW boat more than Cookie boat with some small nerf 

waterlogged: you just need to ram yourself in it, maybe with a cost that it deal more damaged to SW boat than cookie boat (keep in mind, boat)

----------------

also as I say, since both type of boat exsit, you can choose to use what you want

obvious for fighting, SW boat is the one, but for stuff that SW boat CAN'T do, cookie boat is there

 

 

but you are ignoring all the time that dst is a bussiness, why would klei add stuff that wont call that many people instead of adding totally new stuff that has much more chances of atract new people and keep old players? just to add another mechanic that will make the need of revisiting years of content for those few who miss sw? im sorry but is unrealistic

[MikoFanboy]

Why do you guy alway have a mind set of "one type of boat should able to do everything" when I just trying to say that the thing this boat can't do, the other can and reverse because NOTHING IS PERFECT

one SHOULD SUPPORT the other

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

yes they can, if Klei try ._. 

but why would they redo all of the ocean content to add a boat that is inferior to the cookie boat. and you didn't address any small mobs i said ect they just won't work and theres no point in redesigning the entire ocean just so that they can exist

Just now, MikoFanboy said:

Why do you guy alway have a mind set of "one type of boat should able to do everything" when I just trying to say that the thing this boat can't do, the other can and reverse because NOTHING IS PERFECT

one SHOULD SUPPORT the other

not being able to do something and breaking their mechanics aren't the same thing

[MikoFanboy]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but you are ignoring all the time that dst is a bussiness, why would klei add stuff that wont call that many people instead of adding totally new stuff that has much more chances of atract new people and keep old players?

but the old stuff doesn't exsit to overshadow the new stuff, it's there to support what the new can't

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, MikoFanboy said:

but the old stuff doesn't exsit to overshadow the new stuff, it's there to support what the new can't

i dont get what dst boats cant do, being simple? my last comment here since is pointless to argue because klei wont waste money on these

time = wasting money

[MikoFanboy]

also as far as I know, bringing old stuff to the new game is one of the business strategy so I don't see how it affect business in a bad way

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

my last comment here since is pointless to argue because klei wont waste money on these

time = wasting money

but if it make a better product then it worth it, "delay better than rush" they said

 

[Capybara007]

Adding sw boats will only satisfy a very minor number of people