Some incomplete lore theory: "Shadow entity", Metheus and Alter

[Cassielu]

So I am currently rewriting some old lore-related wiki pages. In the process, I have some new lore theories and doubt. I put them here for discussion. 

 

"Shadow Entity" and Ancients

Spoiler

As we know, the ancient king has an "Immortal's sight". When he was an ancient arthropod, it represented a black eye that floated between the horns of his masks. When he is Fuelwaver, it appears as an extra third eye socket on the skull's forehead. "Immortal's sight" seems to have given ancient kings the ability to observe nightmare creatures, like a bone helmet. 

 

In the second image, a red head with three eyes is depicted. The only creature with three eyes in the game is Kraken, andit clearly has nothing to do with what's going on here, and it's not red. But if we lower the bar, there is a red creature whose facial features have been artificially erased -- Klaus. and Klaus is an imp, a magical race that is intimately connected with gateway. Isn't that a coincidence?

And the second image is the beginning of his "Immortal's sight" (assuming the obelisk chronicles their history in time). So Klaus could be the original owner of "Immortal's Sight", the ancients kidnapped him and took it from him.

 

Then there is the third image, pay attention to the king's arm, this is obviously abnormal. No one is still in the mood to show their muscles in apocalypse. He seems to have lost his eyesight, and he is doing what anyone who has lost his eyesight would do: confirm his own eyes—the "immortal sight" on his head. We can indeed see that there are no longer black eyes floating on the head of the ancient king in this image.

So when the black eyes of "Shadow Entity" appeared, the "immortal sight" of ancient kings just disappeared.

"Immortal Sight" is "Shadow Entity"

 

In Maxwell's introduction, the ancients' excessive use of fuel led to their downfall. However, if the ancients became shadow creatures, the current situation can not be regarded as "downfall". Nightmare throne has the power like the creator, shadow magic seems to take over the operation of the whole world, control the time itself, and even seem to break the fourth wall.

The ancient murals also support this conclusion. The ancients first transformed into shadow creatures, and then prosperous cities.

If Klei hadn't concealed what happened halfway. I think they may be talking about the same thing-the fall of ancient civilizations and the transformation of ancient people into shadow creatures. Just like those ethical discussions about human cloning and consciousness uploading in reality, the ancients who turned into shadow monsters are still not ancients.

In the fourth image, the ancient king retrieved his "immortal sight" and covered his mortal eyes. This may be because in his "immortal sight", he led the tribe to prosperity. In another line of sight, he was the sinner who caused the shadow entity to slaughter civilization. The fact on this side made it difficult for him to accept. 

Charlie—Metheus, their big plan

Spoiler

According to Pugna's quotes, Gatekeeper is the Throne's lapdog and serves "Them". The specific way of serving is to bring pugna and others return to the throne (unite them with throne), and this means that Pugna has to serve them as well.

 

 

I'm going to deal with some unexpected things, and I'll finish this when I come back tonight.

The Constant

Spoiler

 

It's called "The Constant" right, then there must be something that is constant. If even the worlds in there is constantly being destroyed and remanufactured, what else is constant? 

 

I'm going to deal with some unexpected things, and I'll finish this when I come back tonight.

 

[Pikapikap]

[GenomeSquirrel]

Something about saying a creature is an arthropod, then saying it has a skeleton (with skull/bones) in the next sentence triggers me.

[QuQuasar]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

 

  Hide contents

In Maxwell's introduction, the ancients' excessive use of fuel led to their downfall. However, if the ancients became shadow creatures, the current situation can not be regarded as "downfall". Nightmare throne has the power like the creator, shadow magic seems to take over the operation of the whole world, control the time itself, and even seem to break the fourth wall.

The ancient murals also support this conclusion. The ancients first transformed into shadow creatures, and then prosperous cities.

I believe this is incorrect. The ancients were fleshlings and built an ancient civilisation using nightmare fuel, then the fuel went out of control, then they were killed and turned into shadow creatures, and retreated to the dark places of the world.

 

Mural 1 shows Cyclum with his ancient staff, representing darkness, and Metheus with her tragic torch, representing lunar energy, working together to prosper.

Mural 2 shows Cyclum using fuel for everything, building, farming and creating powerful beings and the people rallying behind him, while Metheus' and her power is rejected.

Mural 3 shows the power of darkness going out of control, killing many of the ancients and turning the rest into shadows. Metheus fights back with lunar energy, protecting Cyclum from his own power, while the shadows kill the survivors and corrupt carrots, before slinking off into the darkness.

Mural 4 shows Cyclum sitting on what is presumably the original nightmare throne, covering his eyes in shame, and Metheus' face with broken skull and black eye sockets in the bottom right. I'm sure any similarities to Maxwell and Charlie are purely co-incidental.

Edit: And it is just now occuring to me that their initials, C & M, are the same but inverted (with C on the throne and M as the night monster).

 

The ancient gateway features heavily in all four murals, implying that it played a huge part in channeling Cyclum and Metheus' powers, and a large eye appears in it in mural 3 when the fuel goes out of control. In other words: Cyclum's reckless use of fuel caught the attention of... something. 

This is speculation, but I believe that the world of Don't Starve is a cosmic horror similar to the moon. Maxwell and Wicker heavily imply that the moons name translates to "To Change" or "Alter", and we know that the worlds name is "the Constant". This might go some way towards explaining why their respective servants don't seem get along particularly well.

The Alter is awake now, and we saw what happened to the celestial body that housed it when it awoke. If we assume that "Return of Them" means the Constant will be waking up soon too... well, we'd best hope the gang can find a means of escape before that happens.

[Erineyes7]

Personally I think Maxwell was on the throne first, and that the two ancient deities, One of shadow and One of Enlightment (Idk what to call it). They both occupy their own void(Hence why the Shadow one is seen through the Gateway), and are both in a deep sleep shown like the trailer for Alter. Maxwell had created the world to his design, and watched the Ancients fumble around. This can be observed through the line-

"Just Dust. And the void. And them."

-and of course that Maxwell knows so much about them in the first place.

Of course this isn't completely concrete, Klei has never directly stated what the direct timeline is and if Maxwell made the Constant (Which it's heavily implied he made literally everything), then why isn't he absolutely horrified of things like Alter? He saw what happened with the ancients who were overrun with the fuel.

And then there's the gateway, a connection between different realms. Maxwell is shown to know quite a bit about it. Maybe it's where he got the ancients, because it's certainly how he got Merms. "They were already here when I arrived" (Which btw makes zero sense). But if Maxwell hasn't ever used it before the gateway arc, why does he know anything about it?! Maxwell clearly saw what's in the Gateway, and it's one of them

Klei Inconsistency with this fact alone destroys so much lore and any sense of piecing it together. I really wish they would just make up their mind.

47 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

This is speculation, but I believe that the world of Don't Starve is a cosmic horror similar to the moon. Maxwell and Wicker heavily imply that the moons name translates to "To Change" or "Alter", and we know that the worlds name is "the Constant". This might go some way towards explaining why their respective servants don't seem get along particularly well.

This is such a cool thing that I never noticed! Wow Klei really made their name special huh?

[dish-order man]

This is an idea never been considered by me that the third eye of the fulewaver to be Klaus's eye. I always think this eye should be related to deerclop?

Meanwhile, the ancients once lived on the ground (using the power of Alter), but then went to cave to build cities (using the power of fuel). Why didn't they have cities on the ground? The Ancient Archive seem to record this migration process (from the power of alter to the power of fuel), but the current clues do not seem to make this clear.

In the promotional film and this wallpaper,Charlie entered the archives, hoping to reveal what happened in the past.

is the natural disaster or war which bring the ancients into cave? Disease or mutation turning the ancients into shadow creatures? What kind of force caused the underground city been ruined?

I sincerely hope Klei can reveal more information about the plot. I am a player loving to listen to stories like a pupil. A history story full of accidents and conspiracies will be very enjoyable to me.

[RoseAppraiser]

9 hours ago, Erineyes7 said:

One of Enlightment (Idk what to call it).

This Rose Appraiser chooses to refer to this party as "Celestials",  until a better name is offered from the source.

This Rose Appraiser also intends to craft a rudimentary timeline; please feel free to make corrections as they come.

The Overture: (Pre-Maxwell)
The Constant exists long before Maxwell ever comes to it, just in a different form.
The Ancient Civilization resides on the surface, enamored in Alter, the fickle moon. They create the Archive as a location to worship and gain the forgotten knowledge. Thulecite is merely an ornamental piece, with little application. The reasoning: Thulecite is just metabolized dust from the moths, hardly the powerful element to build a civilization on.

For one reason or another, maybe the Alter went to take a nap, the Ancients fell out of favor.
Leading to a migration into the caves in desperation, with the eventual and ultimately tragic discovery of the Atrium and the Gateway. (Atrium mural 1: a starving civilization)
The Ancients begin to exploit the Gateway, with 2 prominent sides: Cyclum and the Shadows, and Metheus with the Celestials or the remnant of Alter's influence. (perhaps Atrium mural 2/Obelisk mural 1)
Cyclum grows in influence, bringing the fuel and a dark salvation of to the people (Obelisk mural 2) while Metheus desperately tries regaining Alter's favor
The Shadows grow exponentially and proverbially drown the Civilization (Atrium mural 3)
The Ancients begin to thrive and conquer, with a forcible evolution (Atrium Mural 4 and the blackened husks on the obelisk murals) with a "blessed" group, those who merge with the shadows. These are likely their religious, being commemorated in statue form (the mage statues of the ruins).
Thulecite works well with the strange fuel, the city prospers, life is good (Atrium mural 5)
The Shadows strike (Obelisk mural 3) with Metheus taking a last stand and sacrifice while Cyclum realizes his foolishness, seats himself to the throne that would eventually become the Nightmare throne likely perishing and eventually becoming the Ancient fuelweaver, an ironic fate for the one who did it so frivolously(Klei said the between 0 and 0 people sat on the throne before Maxwell when asked about the it) (Obelisk Mural 4). Metheus is presumed dead and gone, but definitely still around.
The world revolving crumbles away with the shadows taking hold of the throne and seeking entertainment.

The debut of The Amazing Maxwell!
The Carter Puzzles address this, so the focus shall be on what happened after the tragedy of his final act.
Maxwell is strapped to the throne, and goes on a power trip using the dust, and Their power to create another iteration of the Constant in the void. Charlie is bound to Metheus and stalks the night

Edit: Accidental submission before completion, please excuse

The Ancient Gateway, the Archives, the Ruins, Alter, and the Merms exist despite Maxwell's works. Constant values must remain constant, though the Merms likely escaped the plague ridden Gorge via the Gateway and appeared right as it all went down the upward spiral.

The Survivors are pulled into the Constant

Adventure mode proceeds as normal with Maxwell being freed courtesy of Wilson

Charlie is the new Ruler with a corrupted Metheus at her side.

A New Reign reconnects the Atrium

Meddling with the Gateway disrupts Alter's nap, breaking the moon

Metheus begins to tread on paths long forgotten

Alter is awoken

Wagstaff

Hopefully this rudimentary timeline is sufficient for the time being. This Rose Appraiser quickly wrote it up with the bare bones essentials, so please inform them of missing aspects and they shall be inserted accordingly
 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

there is higher creatures in other planes that has great power, ancients might called them gods and used them (without knowing that the god was using them). One of them is alter and the other is the nightmere conscience

other one is gnaw from the gorge plane

[Erineyes7]

45 minutes ago, RoseAppraiser said:

This Rose Appraiser chooses to refer to this party as "Celestials",  until a better name is offered from the source.

This Rose Appraiser also intends to craft a rudimentary timeline; please feel free to make corrections as they come.

The Overture: (Pre-Maxwell)
The Constant exists long before Maxwell ever comes to it, just in a different form.
The Ancient Civilization resides on the surface, enamored in Alter, the fickle moon. They create the Archive as a location to worship and gain the forgotten knowledge. Thulecite is merely an ornamental piece, with little application. The reasoning: Thulecite is just metabolized dust from the moths, hardly the powerful element to build a civilization on.

For one reason or another, maybe the Alter went to take a nap, the Ancients fell out of favor.
Leading to a migration into the caves in desperation, with the eventual and ultimately tragic discovery of the Atrium and the Gateway. (Atrium mural 1: a starving civilization)
The Ancients begin to exploit the Gateway, with 2 prominent sides: Cyclum and the Shadows, and Metheus with the Celestials or the remnant of Alter's influence. (perhaps Atrium mural 2/Obelisk mural 1)
Cyclum grows in influence, bringing the fuel and a dark salvation of to the people (Obelisk mural 2) while Metheus desperately tries regaining Alter's favor
The Shadows grow exponentially and proverbially drown the Civilization (Atrium mural 3)
The Ancients begin to thrive and conquer, with a forcible evolution (Atrium Mural 4 and the blackened husks on the obelisk murals) with a "blessed" group, those who merge with the shadows. These are likely their religious, being commemorated in statue form (the mage statues of the ruins).
Thulecite works well with the strange fuel, the city prospers, life is good (Atrium mural 5)
The Shadows strike (Obelisk mural 3) with Metheus taking a last stand and sacrifice while Cyclum realizes his foolishness, seats himself to the throne that would eventually become the Nightmare throne likely perishing and eventually becoming the Ancient fuelweaver, an ironic fate for the one who did it so frivolously(Klei said the between 0 and 0 people sat on the throne before Maxwell when asked about the it) (Obelisk Mural 4). Metheus is presumed dead and gone, but definitely still around.
The world revolving crumbles away with the shadows taking hold of the throne and seeking entertainment.

The debut of The Amazing Maxwell!
The Carter Puzzles address this, so the focus shall be on what happened after the tragedy of his final act.
Maxwell is strapped to the throne, and goes on a power trip using the dust, and Their power to create another iteration of the Constant in the void. Charlie is bound to Metheus and stalks the night

Edit: Accidental submission before completion, please excuse

The Ancient Gateway, the Archives, the Ruins, Alter, and the Merms exist despite Maxwell's works. Constant values must remain constant, though the Merms likely escaped the plague ridden Gorge via the Gateway and appeared right as it all went down the upward spiral.

The Survivors are pulled into the Constant

Adventure mode proceeds as normal with Maxwell being freed courtesy of Wilson

Charlie is the new Ruler with a corrupted Metheus at her side.

A New Reign reconnects the Atrium

Meddling with the Gateway disrupts Alter's nap, breaking the moon

Metheus begins to tread on paths long forgotten

Alter is awoken

Wagstaff

Hopefully this rudimentary timeline is sufficient for the time being. This Rose Appraiser quickly wrote it up with the bare bones essentials, so please inform them of missing aspects and they shall be inserted accordingly
 

It makes 0 sense as to how Maxwell knows anything about the ancients then, he should be as lost as everyone else on this. Why does he know anything about the gateway if when he arrived it was long broken? Maxwells quote for the Guardian claims he saw him before the fuel changed everything. I really wish Klei would pick a side, because they keep playing both.

[RoseAppraiser]

8 minutes ago, Erineyes7 said:

It makes 0 sense as to how Maxwell knows anything about the ancients then, he should be as lost as everyone else on this. Why does he know anything about the gateway if when he arrived it was long broken? Maxwell's quote for the Guardian claims he saw him before the fuel changed everything. I really wish Klei would pick a side, because they keep playing both.

Maxwell's vignette entry says he himself doesn't know much about what happened to him on that throne. Perhaps he is getting glimpses of an old ruler's perspective, seeing his old guardian changed and mourning its destruction.

Maxwell himself does state that the information in the Archives is Greek to him, he was not given all the secrets, only enough to make him entertaining enough for the ones behind the curtains.

[Milordo]

11 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I believe this is incorrect. The ancients were fleshlings and built an ancient civilisation using nightmare fuel, then the fuel went out of control, then they were killed and turned into shadow creatures, and retreated to the dark places of the world.

Exactly as @QuQuasar said. It's the old story "an advance civilization sci-fi has fallen due to an incredible and terrible tecnology" in this case with a lovecraft fashion. Fairly and simple.

 

THAT'S WHY I'LL PICK UP THIS OCCASION to talk about one of the things that drived me mad in the lore of Dst. So please @Cassielu and everyone else in the thread please enlighten me, because it's years i didn't find an answer.

What are the clockworks. No really what's up with them. They're a creation of Maxwell? Well, if yes then why wagstaff knows about them as if he builts them? They seems to have the same components and materials like Wx. If they're built by Maxwell why he disposed them in the Ruins?!???! There were meant to be factiores down there to produce robots? Then where are those? Or Maxwell simply threw away there its rubbish? Because i remember he never wanted to visit the Ruins (infact examination about ancient guardian). We know also it's impossible they're robots created by the advanced tecnology, bla, bla, bla... from the Ancients as seen in the Archives. Which make sense, they want to build robots in their image as any prideful civilization....   

WHAT IN THE FRESH HELL ARE THE SHADOW CLOCKWORKS!?!??! I still don't get it. Are they mutated clockworks by the nightmare fuel? But they're statue. Are they something built by charlie???? Are they ancient guardians or soldiers from the ancients era guarding the soul of ancient fuelweaver, so no more other people can accidentally wake "them" from the portal and that's why the long you fight them, the more they mutate into buggish forms or arthropods forms as the ancient? Because Charlie clearly wanted us to eliminate them, doing us the dirty work for her. So what are those? 

It's all of this just something made up from klei without any sense and never to be explained (As other things)? Tell me so i can put my mind to rest.

[RoseAppraiser]

34 minutes ago, Milordo said:

What are the clockworks. No really what's up with them. They're a creation of Maxwell? Well, if yes then why wagstaff knows about them as if he builts them? They seems to have the same components and materials like Wx. If they're built by Maxwell why he disposed them in the Ruins?!???! There were meant to be factiores down there to produce robots? Then where are those? Or Maxwell simply threw away there its rubbish? Because i remember he never wanted to visit the Ruins (infact examination about ancient guardian). We know also it's impossible they're robots created by the advanced tecnology, bla, bla, bla... from the Ancients as seen in the Archives. Which make sense, they want to build robots in their image as any prideful civilization....   

The Clockworks are based on chess pieces from our world, with Maxwell's tinkering and misinterpreting the fountains of knowledge. As this Rose Appraiser hypothesized, Maxwell is seeing Cyclum's memories and created the clockworks based on them. After some trial and error the toys were made and any failures were thrown into the ruins to be forgotten. But the rotten heart of the ruins still beats, with fuel working its way into the scrap heaps. Some scrap was more assembled than others, creating the damaged clockworks. Wagstaff knowing how to make automata can be explained by him peering past the veil and seeing Maxwell's creations, and having the "genius" idea to recreate them. 

34 minutes ago, Milordo said:

WHAT IN THE FRESH HELL ARE THE SHADOW CLOCKWORKS!?!??! I still don't get it. Are they mutated clockworks by the nightmare fuel? But they're statue. Are they something built by charlie???? Are they ancient guardians or soldiers from the ancients era guarding the soul of ancient fuelweaver, so no more other people can accidentally wake "them" from the portal and that's why the long you fight them, the more they mutate into buggish forms or arthropods forms as the ancient? Because Charlie clearly wanted us to eliminate them, doing us the dirty work for her. So what are those?

The Shadow Chess pieces might be a higher concentration of the Civilization's essence, all tied to the Shadow Atrium or Cyclum's heart, ripped out and corrupted who knows how long ago, with it only dropping once everything has been slain (only a level 3 chess piece drops it). Even killed and disfigured, a people so devoted to their ruler shall fight to the bitter end. The shape might simply be the Shadow chess pieces copying their prison, but that is abstract speculation at best.

Charlie and by extension Metheus need to tip the balance, with the Fuelweaver, or Cyclum desperately fighting to keep things from going too far. This is why you must weaken him in battle. Note the Fuelweaver is never killed by the players, only by Charlie's timely intervention. The loot will not be addressed just yet, seeing as that needs a bit more reading.

The reason Charlie was on edge in the Archives might be because Metheus is treading on those long forgotten paths and remembering. To revisit an old location is often unnerving and can cause an influx in emotions of nostalgia.

Edited NOTE: @JamesBucket theory addresses this topic with a better flow and coherence than this Rose Appraiser, do check it out.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

What are the clockworks. No really what's up with them. They're a creation of Maxwell?

[Milordo]

21 minutes ago, Erineyes7 said:

It makes 0 sense as to how Maxwell knows anything about the ancients then, he should be as lost as everyone else on this. Why does he know anything about the gateway if when he arrived it was long broken? Maxwells quote for the Guardian claims he saw him before the fuel changed everything. I really wish Klei would pick a side, because they keep playing both.

Maybe the ancient guardian was some kinda of pet or animal who resisted the apocalypse world and so Maxwell could saw him. But after a lot of time, the fuel down there was too much, mutating him in the process. As @RoseAppraiser said knowledge is scattered to Maxwell by "them" on purpose.

 

47 minutes ago, RoseAppraiser said:

The Clockworks are based on chess pieces from our world, with Maxwell's tinkering and misinterpreting the fountains of knowledge. As this Rose Appraiser hypothesized, Maxwell is seeing Cyclum's memories and created the clockworks based on them. After some trial and error the toys were made and any failures were thrown into the ruins to be forgotten. But the rotten heart of the ruins still beats, with fuel working its way into the scrap heaps. Some scrap was more assembled than others, creating the damaged clockworks. Wagstaff knowing how to make automata can be explained by him peering past the veil and seeing Maxwell's creations, and having the "genius" idea to recreate them. 

The Shadow Chess pieces might be a higher concentration of the Civilization's essence, all tied to the Shadow Atrium or Cyclum's heart, ripped out and corrupted who knows how long ago, with it only dropping once everything has been slain (only a level 3 chess piece drops it). Even killed and disfigured, a people so devoted to their ruler shall fight to the bitter end. The shape might simply be the Shadow chess pieces copying their prison, but that is abstract speculation at best.

Charlie and by extension Metheus need to tip the balance, with the Fuelweaver, or Cyclum desperately fighting to keep things from going too far. This is why you must weaken him in battle. Note the Fuelweaver is never killed by the players, only by Charlie's timely intervention. The loot will not be addressed just yet, seeing as that needs a bit more reading.

The reason Charlie was on edge in the Archives might be because Metheus is treading on those long forgotten paths and remembering. To revisit an old location is often unnerving and can cause an influx in emotions of nostalgia.

Well, thx for the response. I guess the explanation for the shadow chess pieces make sense... kinda. Always saw them as parts of some warriors ancients or whatever they are now. Who is Cyclum exactly? And if they're a part of essence of the shadow atrium,then why they're on the surface? Shouldn't they stay underground...? Where the ruins belong? 

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I knew about that, it's the fact that in the Metheus puzzle we saw the Ancients building robots, as an advance civilization they were. So i thought Maxwell only picked up the scraps in the Ruins, implying they were made by them and not by him. Like why there are so much scrapped and broken clockworks there??

I get it before, clockworks were only a funny creation to symbolize we as pawns in a chess game but this doesn't represent anymore the game and it seems the more the story and lore of Don't Starve is going on, the more confusing and complicate the things are. Like the shadow clockworks. (2015) Cool the new moon has effects afterall in the constant... but just for one boss fight and never to see again other interactions in the ambience or explain why it happens....

[RoseAppraiser]

23 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Who is Cyclum exactly? And if they're a part of essence of the shadow atrium, then why they're on the surface? Shouldn't they stay underground...? Where the ruins belong? 

Cyclum is the name @Cassielu, and several others, gave to one of the 2 Ancients who are prominent in the Obelisk murals, the cane-bearer with Metheus being the Torch Bearer, presumably (all subject to change with more lore).

As for how the Atrium found its way up top, this Rose Appraiser's best guess is that the New Moon pulls the Fuel upwards, similar to how the moon pulls the tides on Earth. The statues are bubble prisons of sorts where the fuel gathers up, spewing into the chess pieces once burst from an external force. Why the clockworks form when under a full moon is beyond this Rose Appraiser, maybe it is another strange transmutation brought on by Alter. But note that Moon-glass, the polar opposite of the fuel, has no such potential no matter the moon phase, and when one makes the small variant of the chess-pieces from the sketches, only Shadows can spawn when hammered on a New Moon.

New Addition: In Obelisk Mural 2, Cyclum is shown created sprockets, wrenches, and other more advanced items. This does throw a wrench (pun not intended) into the works but this Rose Appraiser shall hazard a guess. The various mechanisms might be the beginnings of what Maxwell would turn into the Clockworks or tainted copies of what was used prior to losing Alter's favor, seeing as the Sentrypedes are definitely not Maxwell's yet having a very electrical design.

The Sentrypedes in the Archive alongside their posts have an energy similar to what Wagstaff stole, perhaps indicating why the Ancients fell out of Alter's favor!  They drained the Moon's energy using Moonstones, and Alter took a nap to recharge, but the Ancients didn't know and here the fall begins!

[Cassielu]

10 hours ago, RoseAppraiser said:

Cyclum is the name @Cassielu, and several others, gave to one of the 2 Ancients who are prominent in the Obelisk murals, the cane-bearer with Metheus being the Torch Bearer, presumably (all subject to change with more lore).

Cyclum is Latin for "cycle," which is the url for a puzzle. We only get the name Metheus.

[Milordo]

3 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Cyclum is Latin for "cycle," which is the url for a puzzle. We only get the name Metheus.

Oh, wait..... so we know only the name of Metheus as always? Cyclum was a mistake?

[QuQuasar]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

Oh, wait..... so we know only the name of Metheus as always? Cyclum was a mistake?

My basis for believing that "Cyclum" is the fuelweaver/cane bearer/ancient king's name is that completing the Cyclum puzzle gives you the tragic torch skin (the ancient queen's symbol) while completing the Metheus puzzle gives you the ancient cane skin (the ancient king's symbol).

Since Fuelweaver saying Metheus' name implies he isn't Metheus, process of elimination makes him Cyclum.