Ideas for Maxwell Rework!

[VirgilEngineer]

Hello! Welcome to another useless post from me!

 

Recently i got the Maxwell roseate skin, so I played with him in a server to use that said skin, and i realized the awful (in My opinion) position he has now. 

 

When You think about Maxwell what comes in mind? Shadows? Fragile? Magic? Sanity or resources?.

 

Sadly, All those things other characters already do Better than him. 

 

Resources? You got Woodie and Bearger! You don't need to risk resource gathering with a character who can die in a few hits.

 

Magic, shadows and glass canon features? Wanda. No need to elaborate further. 

 

I really don't like how the ex-king Of the constant, the amazing Maxwell himself, the iconic antagonist of the original DS is being replaced by literally everyone.

 

 

PD: This is only my opinion, i love Maxwell, and i just want more reasons to play as him, because right know it's not worth it...

[Horsheen]

Oh boy oh boy I absolutely love this character.

I think the elephant in the room is to change the shadow duelists.

More shadow based perks would be amazing, and frankly him having 75hp doesn't quite make up for the fact that he gathers stone and wood fast. 

I don't see why his sanity regen was nerfed so hard when he was ported to DST, even just having it at 15/min would be a good amount.

His shadows are a super cool mechanic, and I'd like those to stay, but perhaps introduce some new combat-driven shadows?

And PLEASE just make clones take a % of max sanity without capping sanity, just make a limit on the clones you can create. The fact that maxwell can't make use of one of the best headgears in the game is annoying. And from a lore standpoint it kinda makes sense, but gameplay wise it's rather frustrating

[VirgilEngineer]

5 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

Oh boy oh boy I absolutely love this character.

I think the elephant in the room is to change the shadow duelists.

More shadow based perks would be amazing, and frankly him having 75hp doesn't quite make up for the fact that he gathers stone and wood fast. 

I don't see why his sanity regen was nerfed so hard when he was ported to DST, even just having it at 15/min would be a good amount.

His shadows are a super cool mechanic, and I'd like those to stay, but perhaps introduce some new combat-driven shadows?

And PLEASE just make clones take a % of max sanity without capping sanity, just make a limit on the clones you can create. The fact that maxwell can't make use of one of the best headgears in the game is annoying. And from a lore standpoint it kinda makes sense, but gameplay wise it's rather frustrating

I agree with all of this! I would love a feature to control more about the shadows, the same way Webber rework gave us with spiders, i really don't like how the shadows never stop chopping or mining, i don't think it's hard to make a way to stop the shadows from doing that without having to destroy them.

I think having maxwell with low health it's fine, as long as it's worth the trouble.

 

 

[Horsheen]

5 minutes ago, VirgilEngineer said:

I agree with all of this! I would love a feature to control more about the shadows, the same way Webber rework gave us with spiders, i really don't like how the shadows never stop chopping or mining, i don't think it's hard to make a way to stop the shadows from doing that without having to destroy them.

I think having maxwell with low health it's fine, as long as it's worth the trouble.

 

 

Yeah having to /dance just to stop your miner from destroying your tier 1 marble shrub sucks lmao

I'd love for some ranged shadows tbh, they can be far enough to stay out of trouble, and add a bit of DPS to maxwell, making him a combat/gatherer hybrid

[Azamagon]

I'd make him more about Shadow Magic for sure. Things like:

• A spell to hold enemies with shadow hands
• A spell to "convert" a non-boss enemy to your side for a moment
• A spell to simply nuke target(s?) with some kind of shadowy attack
• Teleport-swapping with your Shadow minions, or with any enemy affected by his shadow spells
• Summon temporary shadow monsters which have good stats (damage, durability, speed etc), but only last for a while

That kind of stuff.

[VirgilEngineer]

11 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

I'd make him more about Shadow Magic for sure. Things like:

• A spell to hold enemies with shadow hands
• A spell to "convert" a non-boss enemy to your side for a moment
• A spell to simply nuke target(s?) with some kind of shadowy attack
• Teleport-swapping with your Shadow minions, or with any enemy affected by his shadow spells
• Summon temporary shadow monsters which have good stats (damage, durability, speed etc), but only last for a while

That kind of stuff.

A summoner type of character you Say? Sounds weird, but in a good way, kinda makes sense with Maxwell. But I don't think that is going to spice up his gameplay that much, but knowing Klei they are going to gave him a crafting Tab with those things

[xhyom]

I saw a video these days of a modded character (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2607507857) and could not stop thinking about how cool it would look if it was shadow magic instead of robots, Telltale Hearts in the place of the modded mechanical hearts could represent how Maxwell hurt himself to accomplish his tricks and Shadow Atrium to upgrade his minions.

What i really liked is the sentry robot that stays close to where it is built and aggro enemys, even though it looks like Bernie part II, It's actually the opposite if you think about it, and you can have multiple ones from what i understand. The ranged one could be useful for certain strategies too i guess.

I don't think Maxwell will get any offensive spells because i feel or more precisely want Wickerbottom instead to fill that gap we have in Don't Starve.

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

• A spell to hold enemies with shadow hands
• A spell to "convert" a non-boss enemy to your side for a moment

But those two ideas are so in character that it looks perfect for him no matter what direction his rework takes.

 

I actually hope Klei has bigger plans to him, as he was the King of the Constant he surely need a bigger and fancier stage to his performance, maybe we are thinking to low, but I actually don't know exactly what could it be so I can't criticize if they too are not really sure what to do.

 

[zacqiang]

I have been playing him for more than 1500 ingame days, and truth be told, he's a really fun character to play as, and the only things he truly need are high reduction armor and hunger foods.

My only two qualms would be that:

• His shadow duelists should get a rework. They are not at all useful with their health and kiting patterns as of now, and a gameplay using them is awfully wobbly and hard to control.
• Dropping his Codex Umbra just to craft shadow minions is very unnecessary imo. Why not make it so that he can craft them shadow minions whenever it's in his vicinity AND in his inventory?

2 hours ago, Azamagon said:

• Summon temporary shadow monsters which have good stats (damage, durability, speed etc), but only last for a while

I really like this idea to replace the shadow duelists that he currently has. Imagine conjuring a couple shadow beasts to aid him against swarm mobs like Spider Queen and Dragonfly, and disappear after maybe 4 mins. Of course, the shadow beast craft should expend a little more nightmare fuel since it's much more OP than his original duelists (and to be fair for other shadow minion crafts, the shadow beast craft can also expend flint / gold as the beasts' claws / teeth). And this complements with the point I made above, so that he can always still stay in combat when crafting such shadow beasts.

[Dr. Safety]

2 hours ago, Azamagon said:

• Summon temporary shadow monsters which have good stats (damage, durability, speed etc), but only last for a while

I really like this, but make it more late game? Upgrade the Codex Umbra with thulecite and the knowledge of the ancients via ancient pseudoscience station to open up his true shadow magic potential.

As far as his early game goes, I think he just needs unique interactions with dark swords and night armor (since those are kind of his thing) and make the duelists better. Perhaps duelists will copy Maxwell's damage and armor if he is wearing night armor and/or holding a dark sword? I'd also like to see a unique interaction with Maxwell and a dark sword to be something like his upside from the Forge. After hitting an enemy a certain number of times with the dark sword, it will do something like this:

Spoiler

Obviously, credit to Gomi No Kazoku on Youtube

Additionally, some general control over his minions would be a nice QoL change. Give them the Abigail treatment where you can open and close the book in your inventory to toggle active/passive. I hate having to stay far away from the marble bean farms...

Finally, with these perks should come a new downside. The Maxwell vignette says "Maxwell's extended reign on the Nightmare Throne altered him in ways that are not yet fully understood. He continues to rely heavily on his tome, the Codex Umbra, as a result". Perhaps if he is not holding his Codex (applying the change that @zacqiang said above, not having to remove the codex to craft), this could be really bad for him in some way. Maybe removing his perks like sanity gain, dark sword/nightmare armor interactions, and killing his current shadow minions?

That downside seems kinda stupid but I'll throw it in there anyway just to see what other people think.

[StretchVanb]

 

6 hours ago, Azamagon said:

I'd make him more about Shadow Magic for sure. Things like:

• A spell to hold enemies with shadow hands
• A spell to "convert" a non-boss enemy to your side for a moment
• A spell to simply nuke target(s?) with some kind of shadowy attack
• Teleport-swapping with your Shadow minions, or with any enemy affected by his shadow spells
• Summon temporary shadow monsters which have good stats (damage, durability, speed etc), but only last for a while

That kind of stuff.

The shadow clone-swapping sounds really fun (and funNY). I think it could provide opportunities for some very wacky things during fights like Fuelweaver, allowing him to do things similar to Wanda can do but more flexibly and with more difficulty.

 

Plus they could make Clones just… straight up copy him. Maybe they could even share a health pool with him, (albeit with a damage reduction, hopefully), to make his low hit points feel more important, AND give the clones more uses during combats.

Quote

Perhaps duelists will copy Maxwell's damage and armor if he is wearing night armor and/or holding a dark sword

Like with this

Also,

Quote

Finally, with these perks should come a new downside. The Maxwell vignette says "Maxwell's extended reign on the Nightmare Throne altered him in ways that are not yet fully understood. He continues to rely heavily on his tome, the Codex Umbra, as a result". Perhaps if he is not holding his Codex (applying the change that @zacqiang said above, not having to remove the codex to craft), this could be really bad for him in some way. Maybe removing his perks like sanity gain, dark sword/nightmare armor interactions, and killing his current shadow minions?

The downside idea is nice. You could even use it to basically force Maxwell to not use actual weapons during combat, hard nerfing him and forcing him to look to his clones for DPS. Maxwell overhaul mod Dev please take note!

[Dr. Safety]

56 minutes ago, StretchVanb said:

The downside idea is nice. You could even use it to basically force Maxwell to not use actual weapons during combat, hard nerfing him and forcing him to look to his clones for DPS. Maxwell overhaul mod Dev please take note!

I like that you liked my idea, but I just meant in his inventory, not physically holding it. He should still be allowed to use weapons

[StretchVanb]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I like that you liked my idea, but I just meant in his inventory, not physically holding it. He should still be allowed to use weapons

Well yeah, I was just extrapolating. Either way it’s good!

[Milordo]

9 hours ago, VirgilEngineer said:

 

Resources? You got Woodie and Bearger! You don't need to risk resource gathering with a character who can die in a few hits.

 

Again, no. It seems you're new, but Woodie does not beat Maxwell in terms of resource gathering. It has already been explained a thousand times, even in the guille's video and no one good at the game would think otherwise. On the contrary, Woodie always has been the "joker" character. The character that can do every role, not better than the others, but still always available in every occasion. Yes the goose transformation destroy completely this design but this is another discussion.......

Scale of resource gathering: Bearger --> Maxwell --> Woodie

Still, yes everybody feel sad about Maxwell. The possibility of powers and abilities you could do with him and it's reduced to a woodcutter.... 

[VirgilEngineer]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Again, no. It seems you're new, but Woodie does not beat Maxwell in terms of resource gathering. It has already been explained a thousand times, even in the guille's video and no one good at the game would think otherwise. On the contrary, Woodie always has been the "joker" character. The character that can do every role, not better than the others, but still always available in every occasion. Yes the goose transformation destroy completely this design but this is another discussion.......

Scale of resource gathering: Bearger --> Maxwell --> Woodie

Still, yes everybody feel sad about Maxwell. The possibility of powers and abilities you could do with him and it's reduced to a woodcutter.... 

Yeah, i know Maxwell can do better in resource gatherin than woodie, i in fact, main Woodie, but still, Woodie can do almost the same as Maxwell in chopping or mining with the beaver in a less risky playstile. i mean, its kinda lame for the king of the constant to be now used as a simple gatherer when he could be doing more things with his shadows

[Milordo]

33 minutes ago, VirgilEngineer said:

Yeah, i know Maxwell can do better in resource gatherin than woodie, i in fact, main Woodie, but still, Woodie can do almost the same as Maxwell in chopping or mining with the beaver in a less risky playstile. i mean, its kinda lame for the king of the constant to be now used as a simple gatherer when he could be doing more things with his shadows

You mean that Woodie occupy the same role but less risky due to having 150 hp? Then yes, sure. 

[Seero]

10 hours ago, VirgilEngineer said:

Resources? You got Woodie and Bearger! You don't need to risk resource gathering with a character who can die in a few hits.

 

maxwell outperforms woodie and can gain rocks and automatically harvest stumps
he just needs more minions

[zacqiang]

55 minutes ago, Seero said:

he just needs more minions

Or better aka controllable minions. I don't think his minions are lacking to begin with.

Except for the duelists 

[Seero]

3 minutes ago, zacqiang said:

Or better aka controllable minions. I don't think his minions are lacking to begin with.

Except for the duelists 

both

[longvue.ttv]

im by far a Maxwell main in most of my 3k hours of the game,

first i will discuss why Maxwell is op at resource gathering year 1. second i will explain some modifications to make him a god he is destined to be. feel free to criticize any of this and offer alternatives but please be constructive in any responses.

Maxwell 75 hp doesn't mean much other then early game, once you get bone armor to swap it with marble you can tank most things other then bee queen, late game i can consistently solo ag with no cheese all tanking with 3 bone armor if you know how to swap it correctly

so lets talk about resource gathering from the stages of gameplay, year 1 autumn your goal as a Maxwell is to remove the quarry and mosaic biome, you don't need wood early game so start with 2 miners and a shovel so you can dig all the graves you come across, next goal is when someone finds Chester they bring it to you so you can continue stone flint and gold farming. once you are like 2/3rd the way into autumn goto base unload and find the nearest wormhole.

stage 2 year 1, find the wormhole and hop in and out while you have your 3 shadows still alive to assist keeping sanity down and get 4 nmf this is essential for now you can kill your two miners and get 6 nmf in all. this is enough for 3 new logger shadows. you then clear all forest near base and moonrock. this is far superior to Woodie early game because Woodie should be on lunar by now if not home. and the reason normal forest harvesting is better for Maxwell then Woodie is Woodie thrives in a planted forest rather then spaced out. 

stage 3 year 1 winter. nobody needs to get stone but you, base should have enough thermals due to the stone you got in autumn and crockpots should already be made. you should finish harvesting wood when the marble trees are fully grown that someone other then you should have planted once you reached base with all the marble you've found and the rest of the marble others found in the world. (this is also now when someone in base should plant all the pinecones you got from deforestation) this should then enable you to once again find the nearest wormhole. jump in and out get 4 nmf and kill all 4 of your shadows to replace them with 3 miners. (4 miners is not needed with this amount of marble) once you mined all the marble someone else should replant all but 6 which you craft into a marble suit for Maxwell. (now you can assist in boss fights) the next step head to the caves. whoever found hutch should have left it at the cave entrance for you to now transition to mining for bone fragments. now that you have enough bones for 2 fw statues. come up to the surface and give one of the statues to the ruins expert and keep the other for base or for warly when afw is killed. 

stage 3 year 1 now that you've grinded hard its time for you to either get more wood or go clear all the ice in the world in the mosaic and quarry biome. put it all in a fridge separate from your kitchen for its not food its for flingos. then Maxwell keeps getting wood or other things but you should be set up for resources better then wurt or Woodie can do year 1 that is when you thrive. 

now for a Maxwell rework things i would love to see to make the god of dst a true god. shadow duelists are decent for the cost of them and the fact you can stay perpetually insane is nice. however they are really only used in the fight against df and hounds. otherwise they die so fast its not worth it. to have better shadow duelists would be cool. but what i really want to see is Maxwell controlling terrorbeaks like willow but the counter. as in willow can bait all of them why not Maxwell fight stuff with them? this would add depth and lure to his character as-well as strengthen him for now he is a resource gather playstyle and boss fights are only do-able with a marble suit or two. for even helping, now to solo bosses its resource draining for all but dc he is easy to solo as any character just learn to kite.

alternate rework. make Maxwell better at resource gathering. i know its a crazy thought as ive already explained how he is great for early game. but to have him able to maybe make shadow tools only he and Wanda can use would be cool. like an axe with no durability like Woodie but it can swap to a pick or shovel. something small but would increase his efficiency in resource gathering could be really cool.

thank you for spending the time to read this and feel free to comment just @ me so i can see your response to this. maxwell is a complex character and to play him well requires to learn the skill curve as like webber, wanda and warly. once you take advantage of the wide variety of mechanics of the character he is really strong

if you would like to know how i play for the second half of year one just ask and i can type it up aswell because maxwell in summer is fun but hard (ruins) (duelists) 

[Mike23Ua]

Considering most character downsides are becoming mostly non-existent I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest bit if Klei increases Maxwells Health so he isn’t just “the easily killed” Even WES became easier to play as so that goes without saying.

Less focus on shadow workers of himself, more focus on actual powerful shadow magic/monsters, For example: Summoned Terrorbeaks can now do the job of mining stone AND fighting simultaneously at the same time with their jaw bite attack to avoid confusion over Maxwell controlled shadows and the ones that want to attack players, maybe they can have a purple (spider-sense is tingling) looking design around their outer outline to showcase “hey this ones being controlled”

The Codex Umbra IS a portable crafting station now, you no longer need to drop it on the ground to use it, instead he holds it in his hand similar to Wicker reading her books.

Workers can also be Soothed/Riled up- So your dumb ignorant shadows stop chopping down every tree they come close to when other players don’t want them chopped down.

Thats pretty much all I would do to him.

Wait no I forgot the most important change: TEAM ABILITIES, maybe Maxwell can summon a Shadow Clone of Wilson (for hilarity value of course) to help other players, and this shadow Wilson will automatically change his tool to whatever COMMON tool the player is holding (Axe, Pickaxe, Shovel, Spear)

Literally allowing Maxwell to give other players a fragile but valuable extra hand.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Even WES became easier to play as so that goes without saying.

Hilarious

[W0l0l0]

I'd suggest something along the lines of combining Sanity and health into one stat, but with all the enlightenment and weavefuelers about I don't know how it would work. 

[Capybara007]

Hear me out

When maxwell attacks an enemy, either melee or range, this target gets a "shadow tag" only one enemy can be tagged at the time, and when there is shadow duelist, they will focus on this enemy and will deal double damage, similar of how whips work in terraria.

Basically an inverse wendy, abigail atacks, wendy deals more dmg, maxwell attacks, summons deal more damage.

[Skelewar]

I have an idea for Maxwell's rework that I'm very proud of, instead of retyping it all I'll just link it here> 

 

TLDR: Alleviate Maxwell's glaring health issues by allowing him to make a shadow clone of himself (controlled by the player) to go get into danger for him. As a result, Maxwell's body must be taken care of to prevent death while the shadow clone is out in the field- staying in line with "puppet-master", introducing a unique mechanic, and promoting team play (because you could trust your friends to keep your body safe while you're not around). Now you won't have to sacrifice your BACKPACK slot for some dumb log suit 24/7 incase a bunnyman bites you twice and kills you. 

[W0l0l0]

1 hour ago, Skelewar said:

I have an idea for Maxwell's rework that I'm very proud of, instead of retyping it all I'll just link it here> 

 

TLDR: Alleviate Maxwell's glaring health issues by allowing him to make a shadow clone of himself (controlled by the player) to go get into danger for him. As a result, Maxwell's body must be taken care of to prevent death while the shadow clone is out in the field- staying in line with "puppet-master", introducing a unique mechanic, and promoting team play (because you could trust your friends to keep your body safe while you're not around). Now you won't have to sacrifice your BACKPACK slot for some dumb log suit 24/7 incase a bunnyman bites you twice and kills you. 

How about we take it a step further and allow full control of both characters via a hot key to switch between both as well as action queues like some sort of horrifying blend of Sims and Age of Empires.