Is it just me or are Gnarwails really hard to tame?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Honestly I have no idea- but most cross-play games don’t have the major gameplay differences DST has between its versions either, I just know that IF DST was cross play, point and drag vs using Controller inputs would need to be fair- because from what I can tell from this thread….

Console players can’t tame Gnarwhails at all. 

It seems weird tho as your solution seems to make the pc experience worse for the sake of fairness neither a controller or mouse handle the same so making one worse for the sake of the other seems like a bad idea.

[Beeremy the III]

3 minutes ago, SadeceAtakan said:

Not only unplayable, but also stinky.

 

Gnarwhals are dumb and stinky, and here's why.

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It seems weird tho as your solution seems to make the pc experience worse for the sake of fairness neither a controller or mouse handle the same so making one worse for the sake of the other seems like a bad idea.

Yeah but my entire point is- does playing Minecraft on your IPhone have any clear advantages over playing with your Xbox account with a console controller? (and yes you can join your own worlds from IPhone/Console) aside from mobile getting to use costum skins the game experience is roughly the same.. 

Mobile version can’t drag and drop blocks with touch screen controls they have to be placed exactly in the same way you would as if you were playing on Console.

THAT is the difference and the difference is Massive…

I also don’t think it would be fair for a console version of the game sold without a Keyboard and Mouse to suddenly require one for optimal play.. 

But then again- I provided a link earlier to Mario Paint which was packaged and sold with mouse provided with the game.

[Falkenpelz]

YOU CAN TAME THESE FRICKERS??

 

I thought they just look cute and stab your boat...

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

The PC Version of this game and the Console version are sounding more and more drastically broken with every bit of information people provide about the PC Version.

The console is limited by its controller.  This is a sad fact of console gaming.  You don't notice this because many games are built around the controller's limitations, but even ones designed for console have problems.  Monster Hunter Freedom United was a psp game and you had to use a claw-like grip on the controller so you could use the dpad and analog stick simultaneously.

Mouse and keyboard - and other custom peripherals make gaming life so much better by giving you more ability to control your game.

DS was made as a pc game and lived there for a long time before it came to consoles.  The consoles are a port, and yeah they aren't as good there.  The solution isn't jamming unnecessary restrictions on pc players just b/c console players have a bad controller, the solution is to rework the console controller scheme.  Things like being unable to move while your map or crafting tabs are open, and the awkward mapping where you use one analog stick for one menu and the other for a different one is horrible.  They should allow on console for your left stick to always work for movement even if you have the map or crafting tabs open.  They should also give you an option that takes your right analog off of the inventory and let you free aim for things like wortox hop.  A good control design will alleviate many problems console players have.  They should also just put in a legit creative mode as spawning items in for practice, or just creative building is very fun.  I know a lot of people play minecraft creative b/c they just wanna have fun building etc.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

My best advice I can give Klei is to stop designing content around point & click mouse gameplay… and instead design all content as if your using a game controller.

That is horrible advice.

[Pig Princess]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

My best advice I can give Klei is to stop designing content around point & click mouse gameplay… and instead design all content as if your using a game controller.

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

How about BOTH those choices are biased and unhelpful??

So you are representing biased console player? What an indispensable, constructive and generally helpful role you took upon yourself.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But as Klei is a small indie studio, the mistakes can be forgiven

 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

No instead the best solution as much as PC players are going to hate it- is to force PC players to play the same version We are.. (of course only during cross-Platform play..)

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

My best advice I can give Klei is to stop designing content around point & click mouse gameplay… and instead design all content as if your using a game controller.

How about no? If anything, console players should receive QoL updates, not PC players are forced to suffer, whether it's cross-platform or not. Or do you think everyone should suffer because you are? I disagree with that.

Sure, there might be extra difficulties with console developers, but that's what you get considering PC is the most widespread and universal platform, and it's simply more profitable to target people owning this platform. Anyway, it's the problem with console, not PC, and it's platform problem, not people playing at that platform are a problem who suddenly "must" pay some price so you would feel justice.

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah but my entire point is- does playing Minecraft on your IPhone have any clear advantages over playing with your Xbox account with a console controller? (and yes you can join your own worlds from IPhone/Console) aside from mobile getting to use costum skins the game experience is roughly the same.. 

Mobile version can’t drag and drop blocks with touch screen controls they have to be placed exactly in the same way you would as if you were playing on Console.

THAT is the difference and the difference is Massive…

I also don’t think it would be fair for a console version of the game sold without a Keyboard and Mouse to suddenly require one for optimal play.. 

But then again- I provided a link earlier to Mario Paint which was packaged and sold with mouse provided with the game.

I haven't played minecraft so I can't speak for that but striping away features for the sake of fairness is something I personally can't get behind.

Dst wouldn't suddenly require a mouse and keyboard to play it would just be a better experience with one which is something certain games have already done in the past.

[Erineyes7]

I don't play on console, I just use a controller because I like it more, but the fact that that's how you tame them is terrible...

But I also wouldn't know, despite me sailing around my entire ocean, I only saw one once and it instantly went off screen to go do something else. Please Klei, fix the ocean spawns...

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I haven't played minecraft so I can't speak for that but striping away features for the sake of fairness is something I personally can't get behind.

Dst wouldn't suddenly require a mouse and keyboard to play it would just be a better experience with one which is something certain games have already done in the past.

Yeah? Well until I can do things like drag meat over a gnarwhail to tame him without needing a Mouse and point & drag controls? I will kindly agree to disagree.. 

But hopefully Klei see’s how complicated cross-play will be and are seriously thinking about legitimate methods of making that cross-play fair regardless of what platform your playing on.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah? Well until I can do things like drag meat over a gnarwhail to tame him without needing a Mouse and point & drag controls? I will kindly agree to disagree.. 

But hopefully Klei see’s how complicated cross-play will be and are seriously thinking about legitimate methods of making that cross-play fair regardless of what platform your playing on.

But your suggestion limits what you can do with a mouse while not limiting controllers how is that fair?

Actually taking it a step further it would mean for the sake of fairness nerfing the feel of mouse and keyboard and controllers for the sake of fairness making cross-play the worst version of the game.

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But you suggestion limits what you can do with a mouse while not limiting controllers how is that fair?

Your failing to understand my points, you asked me about how cross-play absolutely demands limitations when playing, I gave the best most universally known example: And your still trying to tell me Console players should need to go buy a Keyboard and Mouse to play the game…

In fact I think there’s actually versions of Xbox consoles sold without plug in ports for a KB and Mouse- so what then? Are the players with those consoles just screwed when Klei releases an update where you grab something with your mouse and drag it across an animal to tame him?

*sigh* now because I’ve actually played Mario Paint and a lot of people have not: Even when you DID NOT own a mouse the entire game was designed around Point and Click Controls only they fit those controls into using a CONTROLLER if you had to… (as in giving the player a Mario glove they can use the Dpad to move about and click and drag things on screen with) 

DST is the problem…. NOT Console players…. DST is designed as a PC game first and foremost with console players being a ported over after thought. 
But Mario Paint is clear example that IF a game is intended to use point and click controls- Then it should use those same point and click controls regardless of if your using a Mouse or a Joystick.

And in its current form??? DST isn’t designed that way. And to be quite honest it’s making me angry that my version of the game feels inferior to PC version, yeah I knew when I bought it on console that I wouldn’t have access to mods…

But designing content around best being used (or in case of this Gnarwhail thing used at all) with a freaking MOUSE?! Come on Klei…

[ArubaroBeefalo]

isnt possible to use keyboard and mouse in a +500$ machine? lol

if they can, just give console players the choice of using k&m so mike doesnt make everytopic a console vs pc drama as always 

[Pig Princess]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But designing content around best being used (or in case of this Gnarwhail thing used at all) with a freaking MOUSE?! Come on Klei…

As of right now it offers more possibilities, variely in interactions, and repetitiveness, simplicity to the point of holding attack button is what people got bored off, as far as I know. It's important to develop interesting game for game developers, and nothing is wrong with using every instrument available, like mouse + keyboard.

Also I heard console version of the game has target lock, so people actually can use weather pain as ranged weapon. If this is true, then that's the way to improve console experience, I think.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your failing to understand my points, you asked me about how cross-play absolutely demands limitations when playing, I gave the best most universally known example: And your still trying to tell me Console players should need to go buy a Keyboard and Mouse to play the game…

In fact I think there’s actually versions of Xbox consoles sold without plug in ports for a KB and Mouse- so what then? Are the players with those consoles just screwed when Klei releases an update where you grab something with your mouse and drag it across an animal to tame him?

*sigh* now because I’ve actually played Mario Paint and a lot of people have not: Even when you DID NOT own a mouse the entire game was designed around Point and Click Controls only they fit those controls into using a CONTROLLER if you had to… (as in giving the player a Mario glove they can use the Dpad to move about and click and drag things on screen with) 

DST is the problem…. NOT Console players…. DST is designed as a PC game first and foremost with console players being a ported over after thought. 
But Mario Paint is clear example that IF a game is intended to use point and click controls- Then it should use those same point and click controls regardless of if your using a Mouse or a Joystick.

And in its current form??? DST isn’t designed that way. And to be quite honest it’s making me angry that my version of the game feels inferior to PC version, yeah I knew when I bought it on console that I wouldn’t have access to mods…

But designing content around best being (or in case of this Gnarwhail thing at all) used with a freaking MOUSE?! Come on Klei…

I didn't say you need to buy a keyboard and mouse I said they could add the functionality.

I don't see what demands removing features and you haven't actually explained that from a gameplay aspect just from a graphical one.

Mario paint has a lot less going on than dst and was built for consoles which is why it works.

What you are asking for is to intentionally sabotage the experience on a platform you do not have any intentions to play on so that consoles feel better. To summarize your asking Pc players to sacrifice their comfort so that console players feel better about their version of the game how is this ok? Also limiting the game's future content due to the limitations of controllers is also a bad choice for example Wortox(pc) vs Wortox(console) are you saying console Wortox should be the default even though Kiel didn't intend his teleporting to handle that way? 

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

isnt possible to use keyboard and mouse in a +500$ machine? lol

if they can, just give console players the choice of using k&m so mike doesnt make everytopic a console vs pc drama as always 

No and just no… please actually go PLAY Mario Paint before assuming I’m trying to start a console vs PC flame war.. we should be playing the SAME GAME and currently we are just not…

Heres what needs to happen- Klei needs to go play Mario paint, without a mouse.. and then go back to console version of DST and give us a cool shadow hand that is a direct ripoff of the Mario paint glove, so console players can play the same “Point & Click” Adventure game PC players are.

[Yuuko]

Quote

In fact I think there’s actually versions of Xbox consoles sold without plug in ports for a KB and Mouse- so what then? Are the players with those consoles just screwed when Klei releases an update where you grab something with your mouse and drag it across an animal to tame him?

KB/M use a usb port, pretty sure every console has at least that.  The question is whether the console has the drivers for it.  Its been a long standing weakness of consoles, but since they're players don't know what they're missing the console developers never add it in.  Maybe you should tell the console developers to elevate the experience they provide their users by giving you kb/m support, which has been standard in pc for over 30 years... lol

[Beeremy the III]

47 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

That's a lotta words.

 

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Shame I didn't include em in either quote.

 

What we could do is something along the lines of what Mike suggested here.

53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

(epic guitar riff plays)

Where you press a button and a little shadow hand appears (with a lil snap animation and the ancient fuel weaver shield surrounding it when it snaps because that would look really cool) and that shadow hand becomes your cursor and is controllable with the analog stick allowing you to teleport, use fire or ice or tele staff, or feed gnarwhal. Click the button again, the shadow hand disappears. (with the same snap animation)

[Mike23Ua]

41 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:Wortox(pc) vs Wortox(console) are you saying console Wortox should be the default even though Kiel didn't intend his teleporting to handle that way? 

Are you seriously asking this question? If the pc players want to play cross-play then yes identical in every way- Extra especially so if the cross-play server has PvP enabled.. OTHERWISE PC Wortox will absolutely and without question stomp a mud hole in Console Wortox in a PvP versus match.

Telll me any situation where I would be wrong about this, and I’ll shut up about how PC & Console need to be on a fair and level playing field when it comes to CROSSPLAY

(outside of crossplay your version can continue to be as different as your heart desires)

This thread actually brings the issue into the direct spotlight.. now more then it EVER has by directly showcasing an area of the game Klei intended for you to grab some meat and drag it over a creature using a mouse (again this problem could easily be solved if console players just had an on screen cruiser/pointer button & could point & click drag like Mario Paint..) 

But instead: I’m here being told buy a KB+Mouse and beg Klei for KB+Mouse compatibility for consoles, get the game on the platform content is actually designed for, etc..

Does this sound remotely right to anyone?

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Are you seriously asking this question? If the pc players want to play cross-play then yes identical in every way- Extra especially so if the cross-play server has PvP enabled.. OTHERWISE PC Wortox will absolutely and without question stomp a mud hole in Console Wortox in a PvP versus match.

Telll me any situation where I would be wrong about this, and I’ll shut up about how PC & Console need to be on a fair and level playing field when it comes to CROSSPLAY

A game mode without pvp.

 

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But instead: I’m here being told buy a KB+Mouse and beg Klei for KB+Mouse compatibility for consoles, get the game on the platform content is actually designed for, etc..

Who told you that you "had" to buy one.

 

Figured I'd add it's the same situation as games with Amiibo support or pro versions of consoles you don't have to buy them but you'll often have a better experience if you do.

[Beeremy the III]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Are you seriously asking this question? If the pc players want to play cross-play then yes identical in every way- Extra especially so if the cross-play server has PvP enabled.. OTHERWISE PC Wortox will absolutely and without question stomp a mud hole in Console Wortox in a PvP versus match.

Telll me any situation where I would be wrong about this, and I’ll shut up about how PC & Console need to be on a fair and level playing field when it comes to CROSSPLAY

 

The situation where you would be wrong about this:

PC wortox is afk

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A game mode without pvp.

 

Who told you that you "had" to buy one.

Haha okay well let’s try your way, If you had a group of 6 players (6 friends rather) and 3 of them are on PC and 3 are on Consoles they want to start a COOP world where they work together but rules are in place that no one can pick the same character to play as.

My question to you is a simple one: Do you let the Console player who loves Wortox play Wortox knowing how straight up busted he is compared to PC version- or do you get someone who is on PC to play Wortox just because he’s Superior on PC and get the console player to play as someone who isn’t going to make much difference if they’re on Console or not?

I think I rest my case here..

In conclusion: Having content like dragging meat over gnarwhails that’s in the game that Console players can’t interact with or use at all (if I can please someone at Klei explain how..) is just plain bad.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Haha okay well let’s try your way, If you had a group of 6 players (6 friends rather) and 3 of them are on PC and 3 are on Consoles they want to start a COOP world where they work together but rules are in place that no one can pick the same character to play as.

My question to you is a simple one: Do you let the Console player who loves Wortox play Wortox knowing how straight up busted he is compared to PC version- or do you get someone who is on PC to play Wortox just because he’s Superior on PC and get the console player to play as someone who isn’t going to make much difference if they’re on Console or not?

I think I rest my case here..

In conclusion: Having content like dragging meat over gnarwhails that’s in the game that Console players can’t interact with or use at all (if I can please someone at Klei explain how..) is just plain bad.

If what system your on determines what your allowed to play in your friend group then I'd have to say their not very good friends.

[Yuuko]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Haha okay well let’s try your way, If you had a group of 6 players (6 friends rather) and 3 of them are on PC and 3 are on Consoles they want to start a COOP world where they work together but rules are in place that no one can pick the same character to play as.

My question to you is a simple one: Do you let the Console player who loves Wortox play Wortox knowing how straight up busted he is compared to PC version- or do you get someone who is on PC to play Wortox just because he’s Superior on PC and get the console player to play as someone who isn’t going to make much difference if they’re on Console or not?

I think I rest my case here..

In conclusion: Having content like dragging meat over gnarwhails that’s in the game that Console players can’t interact with or use at all (if I can please someone at Klei explain how..) is just plain bad.

I would absolutely let whoever wants to play a character play them regardless of what was OP.  Just fair warning, I'm probably going to either pick wes and starve to death or pick willow and burn the base down.  You don't want me on your coop team -_-

27 minutes ago, Beeremy the III said:

What we could do is something along the lines of what Mike suggested here.

Where you press a button and a little shadow hand appears (with a lil snap animation and the ancient fuel weaver shield surrounding it when it snaps because that would look really cool) and that shadow hand becomes your cursor and is controllable with the analog stick allowing you to teleport, use fire or ice or tele staff, or feed gnarwhal. Click the button again, the shadow hand disappears. (with the same snap animation)

I said the same thing earlier.  I had a post I put together a while ago suggesting revisions to console controls.  I don't play on console at all any more, but I did play dst on console for a bit and it was atrocious.  idk how anyone plays this game on console...  Putting the left analog stick to movement exclusively - and not blocking movement while you have crafting menus or your map open are needed.  Letting your right analog exit your inventory so you can free point across the map would also be a major improvement.  Freeing up some clutter on the controller so you can have 1 or 2 buttons free to assign as hotkeys to certain items / actions would really close the gap.  idk how easy it is to do these things, but they should be a priority for console QoL 100%

The problem with Mike's suggestions is he wants pc hindered by console's current limitations, which have to do with bad controller layout and the fact that controllers are a very limited device.  Even with a controller remap the kb/m is going to be superior for dst and that's just a fact.  The entire game would have to be re-designed from the ground up, a full dst2, in order to really bring consoles in line because the game was designed to be played as a 3rd person omniscient perspective with click based controls similar to rts - which also have a bad track record of translating to console / controller very well.

[HowlVoid]

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

That's an easy one! Everyone just pick Wendy.

[Mike23Ua]

Honestly controllers actually have more buttons then a mouse (KB not so much.. but Mouse oh certainly!) Klei can easily fix this by you know maybe playing some actual console games looking at HOW those work and going from there?

What I mean by that is DST in its current form on Console does NOT use any of the highly common (and quite baffling that DST doesn’t use…) button inputs.

AKA the TL:DR Holding in the Y button for longer then 2-3 seconds could pull up an actual on screen mouse, and holding it in again gets rid of this mouse.

You know similar to how holding in the button gets in and out of cars OR is used to even Launch the game past the main menu screen for (insert one million console titles here)

Klei could do ALOT More with controller inputs if they would actually use some of those “Hold this button in for a few seconds to make it do something different from tapping it”

This thread is also yet another example of PC having features Console players weren’t even aware existed.. but now that we Know exist- we’re not happy about because we have no way of enjoying those same features.

Klei even said a few months ago they specifically HIRED a team to work on improving the games functionality and QoL specifically just for console players…. Threads like this should NOT be locked and buried and forgotten- And PC players shouldn’t be trying to sweep the issue under a carpet.

These things need to be addressed.. and As a console player I want to actually see that hired team specifically hired on improving the console version addressing these problems.

Im also willing to bet the issue extends far beyond just what’s been brought up here in this thread: I read the other day about a thread where Wurt was able to give pigs clever disguises so they stop punching her.. as long as I’ve played Wurt I never knew she could even DO THAT..

And the most likely reason behind WHY is because on PC you can probably click the item in your inventory and drag it over the pig from a safe distance away from it.. on Console- You need to get right beside this pig and tap the Dpad to give it ANYTHING (or if it’s food drop it on the ground and it walk to get it)

In other words: Console version needs a huge sweeping QoL & for that team they said they hired to improve console version and controller inputs to be put to the task.