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My opinions on Wanda's stuff (kinda)


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Clockmaker's tools - An essential thingamabob to craft every of the watches, but it can also be used to disassemble them to get all the recourses back and it's recipe is also very cheap, so why not make them to be stackable and be consumed on crafting? 

Time Pieces - I think their recipe is balanced enough cuz you don't need more than you get at start (3 of them + Ageless watch) for early game. Ruins (without ruins rush) is mid-game, and you'll probably need more watches to this moment.

Ageless Watch - you get one at start, they have separate cooldown timers and they can stop received damage for the price of being the only method for Wanda to heal. Pretty good.

Second Chance Watch - endless LGA with more expensive recipe (time pieces require thulecite), teleportation to the place of death and inability to put enemies to sleep after reviving. Good for early game, but becomes obsolete in late game when you have a ton of rubies and LGAs from Klaus.

Backstep Watch - endless Wortox's one-way short soul hop. The recipe is very cheap, but I don't see any other uses for it except for an easier kiting.

Backtrek Watch - A perfect item for late game when you have everything, but still too lazy to travel to distant points of your world + it requires a tusk, which you'll probably spend on a walking cane and/or a lazy explorer on the 1st year. However, a good tweak for it would be to give a small amount of age after every teleportation (remember Wanda's Character Trailer where she became old after jumping into Constant?) - 1-3 years, depending of distance, would be enough.

Rift Watch - a pocket sinkhole or a Level 3 Teleporter for the price of 1 ruby and 1 sapphire, nothing to say here.

Alarming Clock - here's where things start to get complicated...

1) It's not hard to get as many players say - you usually visit ruins on summer (most of you even clean it entirely during the 1st one), and all ya need from it is 24 thuli pieces and 14 nightmare fuel, which is, let's agree, not a lot, because thulecite walls and nightmare fissures/lights are in abundance in there.

2) You need a shadow manipulator for it - 7 NM, 3 living logs and 1 amethyst. It can be built during the first autumn, but! It's also required for dark sword, which deals less damage (68 vs. 81.6 - 142.8) and is one-use (can't be used after reaching 0%), so what's the point of it for this granny if you have a stronger, longer and slightly slower weapon which can be recharged and which only downsides are 96 uses against 100 and inability to get before visiting ruins?

3) It's long range obliterates almost all of the bosses, including celestial champion, ancient guardian (both can be stunlocked), dragonfly (stunlock + 2nd Scales), Ancient Fuelweaver (bone cage? who the hell cares?) and Crab King (longer distance - more time to react - lesser claws to chomp your wooden pancake). This video shows everything about that.

4) When strengthened with chili seasoning and volt-goat shaud-froid, Old Wanda with whip deals more damage than buffed Wolfgang with dark sword (but less than buffed Wolfgang with Blow Darts, which are kinda grindy for using in every battle)

I think it would be good for it to have as same range as non-whip weapons OR a base damage of 68 instead of 81.6 (both are not necessary because it will become a rechargable dark sword which is kinda meh for unique weapon imo)

Conclusion: Wanda is not "OP" as most players say, she's "powerful" and "good, but may be better", because you still lose 12 yrs per day, and her old age lasts for 15, which is very short span.

Discuss, I guess?

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totally agree, her weapon sound more like a very late game weapon which makes some bosses need fixes than a 1st autumn weapon

the moment you get it the moment all the difficulty that comes with wanda disappears. But you need to be at 1 hit to be strong  Nope, mature wanda deals a lot of damage and, with night armor or thulecite armor plus backstep watch, you resist a lot. Also doesnt matter to be at 1 hit from death in most scenarios when you kill enemies before they can reach you...

i would be ok with the weapon if the enemies could atleast fight back, an adjustment in the recipe could be nice too. I wont ask for a high nerf for the weapon, at the end klei makes characters for all the people and is ok if this character has a weapon that makes her downsides easier to prevent only few little people playing it (which means also less sales) . But i would prefer something weaker if you ask me

high risk - high reward is what glass cannon means which maybe with a dark sword is achieve but with her weapon is more like medium risk - inmense reward

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Something you forgot to account for is the fact that you don't have to go to the ruins to get more time pieces, due to the archives existing.

 

Each theulicite wall in the archive gives 2 fragments, and the kilns there have a dust within them, letting you get a few extra theulicite fragments from the dust moths.

 

All in all, it is extremely easy to get  a good few stacks of theulicite fragments from the biome, which will be more than enough for Wanda until she decides to start mass-producing ageless and backtreck watches.

The archives arn't hard to find either. Just keep cracking open sink holes and popping in until you find one close to the blue mushroom forest. You can also kill the Mushgnomes outside of the archives for a shadow manipulator.

 

In my Wanda world, I was able to get enough theul fragments 2 backtreck watches and the alarming clock, all before the start of Winter.

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In a fair amount of cases I Wanda can get her alarming clock by say 8 or less but something to keep in mind is she is usually in constant competition for resources with other rushers and Wanda's which while playing alone or with friends isn't a big deal it can feel like you racing against the clock on pubs.

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You start with enough time pieces to make the alarming clock so you don't even need to go to the ruins to get it. You just need a shadow manipulator and a little marble, which is plentiful from all the statue set pieces.

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

In a fair amount of cases I Wanda can get her alarming clock by say 8 or less but something to keep in mind is she is usually in constant competition for resources with other rushers and Wanda's which while playing alone or with friends isn't a big deal it can feel like you racing against the clock on pubs.

It's a lot easier to get in pubs. Every time I join a pub as Wanda I end up collecting at least a dozen time pieces from Wandas that die and disconnect.

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1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You start with enough time pieces to make the alarming clock so you don't even need to go to the ruins to get it. You just need a shadow manipulator and a little marble, which is plentiful from all the statue set pieces.

It's a lot easier to get in pubs. Every time I join a pub as Wanda I end up collecting at least a dozen time pieces from Wandas that die and disconnect.

Sadly before i can swipe them people already get theirs swiped lol also idk if it's the servers I'm on or if it's because people are using mods but i usually find all the graves dug and marble mined by day 3-4 at the latest...

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Why can't people just enjoy the alarming clock? Would you be so happy to get an alarming clock that has no range and deals hambat damage?

-"oh cool I've made it! Klei did what I asked I'm so happy! now to never play Wanda again because she sucks now, just how I wanted it"

Also the devs are well aware of the alarming clock stunlocking bosses, and THAT may change in the future. But that's mostly a bug. I seriously hope they don't nerf anything else because it would be unnecessary.

Spoiler

Getting the alarming clock takes a while already, if you use your starting time pieces for it it means that you miss having another ageless, a backstep or a second chance early on, which are probably more valuable to have than an alarming clock in the early game, and to make the most of it you have to be at really low HP. Plus Wanda is not a new player friendly character at all. It's perfectly balanced that she has an advantage over so many disadvantages besides quick travel between places.

If she didn't have such a nice damage bonus I wouldn't play her, it can get frustrating to be so frail and having to kite and backstep perfectly, and the only thing that pushes me to become better at it and be more precise is the fact that the reward for doing so is a much higher damage.


We really don't want Walter 2.0
 

Spoiler

Sorry about the rant in advance, and it's not personal against OP, it's getting frustrating to keep finding nerf topics when so many of us are enjoying Wanda as she is.

 

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49 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

[snip]

I mean, I think OP is in agreement with you. I agree with both, except that I think clockmaker's tool is fine as is.

The thing about reducing alarming clock's range would be a biiit of a bummer, but might be the easiest solution for the stunning thing, and I might end up not even feeling the difference in range.

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5 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Why can't people just enjoy the alarming clock? Would you be so happy to get an alarming clock that has no range and deals hambat damage?

Wait-wait-wait. I already said that decreasing range AND damage makes no sense, because this weapon will suck then. Lowering one or another will make Wanda more glass cannon'y, just like she should be.

5 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

it's getting frustrating to keep finding nerf topics when so many of us are enjoying Wanda as she is.

I understand, and it's totally fine to enjoy what you like. I also like her as a character, but some things, in my opinion, may be changed or tweaked to make her better, and that applies to all characters.

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59 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Wait-wait-wait. I already said that decreasing range AND damage makes no sense, because this weapon will suck then. Lowering one or another will make Wanda more glass cannon'y, just like she should be.

But I mean, if you decrease the range you take away her edge which is being at really low HP and having a tiny bit more time, and if you decrease it's damage it would only have to be for a tiny-itsy bit, any significant decrease of damage will make all the risk you take for being almost dead not pay off and you'd still go safer as Wolfgang, which, as you may know, with a dark sword when dealing double damage has a SLIGHTLY inferior damage than almost-dead Wanda.

So in the end, what's the point of such change? What do you accomplish? I still hold that she needs no change to the alarming watch except for the stunlock on bosses, which is a glitch, not a feature.
Touching the alarming watch in ANY other way than the perma-stunlocking will risk turn Wanda as a whole much less desirable to play as, specially when Wolfgang exists, its a free character, a lot safer and its "almost there" in terms of raw damage. It would be nerfing for nerf's sake and keep players on the meta loop of "Its boss fighting time, let's switch to Wolfgang".

Wanda is currently twisting the meta as in -"hey, I like this character, and if I put the effort into not getting hit, using the timings right and measuring the distances of the whip's range, I can actually deal more damage than Wolfgang!". The devs know this, that's why they picked the numbers they picked.

She is a paid DLC character, and one that requires a high skill entry. She needs to have this rewarding advantage over skilled gameplay in order to be desirable to stay as during major fights. And above all she needs to be a character you want to have in your roster and spend money on. She's not P2W since the skill requirement is high, andin terms of raw damage Wurt and her super army can deal a lot more damage.

So again.. What I recommend to think to everyone suggesting nerfs, is to first: try her out extensively, like doing all bosses, spending days playing for real and not just spawning things. and then after a really long while, ask yourself :

  1. What do I accomplish by this nerf?
  2. Would this benefit the character?
  3. Would this benefit the experience of the player?
  4. Would this work for a payed DLC character everyone is supposed to want to have? (because Klei makes a living on this). Specially when Wolfgang is a thing...
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8 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Why can't people just enjoy the alarming clock? Would you be so happy to get an alarming clock that has no range and deals hambat damage?

-"oh cool I've made it! Klei did what I asked I'm so happy! now to never play Wanda again because she sucks now, just how I wanted it"

Also the devs are well aware of the alarming clock stunlocking bosses, and THAT may change in the future. But that's mostly a bug. I seriously hope they don't nerf anything else because it would be unnecessary.

  Reveal hidden contents

Getting the alarming clock takes a while already, if you use your starting time pieces for it it means that you miss having another ageless, a backstep or a second chance early on, which are probably more valuable to have than an alarming clock in the early game, and to make the most of it you have to be at really low HP. Plus Wanda is not a new player friendly character at all. It's perfectly balanced that she has an advantage over so many disadvantages besides quick travel between places.

If she didn't have such a nice damage bonus I wouldn't play her, it can get frustrating to be so frail and having to kite and backstep perfectly, and the only thing that pushes me to become better at it and be more precise is the fact that the reward for doing so is a much higher damage.


We really don't want Walter 2.0
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry about the rant in advance, and it's not personal against OP, it's getting frustrating to keep finding nerf topics when so many of us are enjoying Wanda as she is.

 

You had me till you did my boy Walter dirty...

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50 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You had me till you did my boy Walter dirty...

I enjoy playing Walter... but his slingshot could be a whole lot better and not be close to OP...  imo his kit has plenty of room for buffs.

3 hours ago, Duck986 said:

Wait-wait-wait. I already said that decreasing range AND damage makes no sense, because this weapon will suck then. Lowering one or another will make Wanda more glass cannon'y, just like she should be.

I understand, and it's totally fine to enjoy what you like. I also like her as a character, but some things, in my opinion, may be changed or tweaked to make her better, and that applies to all characters.

Decreasing power doesn't make her more of a glass cannon, because a glass cannon is supposed to have power.  If you want to make her "more glass cannon" you have to either increase her fragility, or increase her potential damage.

I think @ShadowDuelist said it best - A full health Wolfgang with DAYS of tanking time is dealing only slightly less damage with dark sword then <25% health Wanda with gated healing...  Sure "with armor she won't die in 1 hit" yeah that's just the nature of armor in this game blocking 80-95% damage.  She doesn't have the 150+ health pool of cushion to tank through so you've got to perform.

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5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

You had me till you did my boy Walter dirty...

Don’t get me wrong, Walter’s cool, what I meant is a character with a unique, super interesting and fun looking weapon, than in reality due to balance concerns is not reliable or useful in the long term. Walter would do SO much better if his slingshot could at very least, shoot faster. 

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11 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Don’t get me wrong, Walter’s cool, what I meant is a character with a unique, super interesting and fun looking weapon, than in reality due to balance concerns is not reliable or useful in the long term. Walter would do SO much better if his slingshot could at very least, shoot faster. 

Personally I feel he's good but I will say his slingshot attack speed is starting to seem more and more silly between webber's spitters and Wanda's whip's reach.

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2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I feel he's good but I will say his slingshot attack speed is starting to seem more and more silly between webber's spitters and Wanda's whip's reach.

they should did it like the forge darts. High damage but you have to actually aim or just make the slingshot hit faster but with more effective effects in his rounds and more kind of utlity rounds instead of just pressing F to deal slow free of danger damage

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8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they should did it like the forge darts. High damage but you have to actually aim or just make the slingshot hit faster but with more effective effects in his rounds and more kind of utlity rounds instead of just pressing F to deal slow free of danger damage

I don't really see in issue of it just being either the same speed as Wanda's weapon or slightly slower as it stays sputters undermine ranged combat that being said I feel like we're reaching a point where kiel may have to eventually just rework mobs to deal with ranged combat like giving pigs the wild boar charge or something.

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Just now, Mysterious box said:

 

I don't really see in issue of it just being either the same speed as Wanda's weapon or slightly slower as it stays sputters undermine ranged combat that being said I feel like we're reaching a point where kiel may have to eventually just rework mobs to deal with ranged combat like giving pigs the wild boar charge or something.

that would be really cool and another nice form of balancing range combat but with the combat we have right know range damage feels dumb and boring

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1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

 

I don't really see in issue of it just being either the same speed as Wanda's weapon or slightly slower as it stays sputters undermine ranged combat that being said I feel like we're reaching a point where kiel may have to eventually just rework mobs to deal with ranged combat like giving pigs the wild boar charge or something.

It's not just the damage, Walter has crowd control pellets that are extremely niche and hard to find a use for due to being sort of expensive (slow pellets mostly) and that hitting a bunch of enemies with it takes too long to make it useful, in that same time you'd just do much better dealing damage. That's why I often suggest a small AOE on hit of slow and freezing pellets, but even without that, I think an increase in the attack speed would still do wonders to the slingshot as a weapon and to Walter as the "true" ranged character.

An alternative as ArubaroBeefalo said is to just increase the damage by a ton, while keeping the slow attack rate, increasing DPS by careful aimed shots. That would work great for damage pellets, but wouldn't help crowd control pellets and still keep them in the darkness.

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7 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

That would work great for damage pellets, but wouldn't help crowd control pellets and still keep them in the darkness

i think having high damage pellets but with needed skill (not just F cheesing) like timing or needing to aim to reward good performance and faster crowd control pellets (or aoe as you suggest) would be a great balance and will have sense. You need more time and force to shot a heavy hit and you can gatling magic rounds to get the effect

also they can do that the more you press F the stronger and longer distance the pellet can go, spaming F will do little damage and short distance but will be a bullet hell for the enemy. This can work too for the aoe rounds, aoe explosion if you keep pressing F or fast shots when there is many enemies by spaming F

also they could make the round recipes cheaper to make daily slingshot less of a waste

 

edit: actually i was so disappointed when i try the character and notice that the slingshot didnt have any deep or interesting mechanic, is just pressing F with different rounds of already existing effects (except the poop one)

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3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i think having high damage pellets but with needed skill (not just F cheesing) like timing or needing to aim to reward good performance and faster crowd control pellets (or aoe as you suggest) would be a great balance and will have sense. You need more time and force to shot a heavy hit and you can gatling magic rounds to get the effect

also they can do that the more you press F the stronger and longer distance the pellet can go, spaming F will do little damage and short distance but will be a bullet hell for the enemy. This can work too for the aoe rounds, aoe explosion if you keep pressing F or fast shots when there is many enemies by spaming F

also they could make the round recipes cheaper to make daily slingshot less of a waste

To be fair he has a point tho unles they change or make them aoe based his crowd control pellets are useless for example freeze rounds have twice the power but half the uses as a ice staff which sounds good on paper but means your wasting a shot on any monster who needs a uneven amount of hits to freeze.

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Wanda update hits, oh, new character, nice. Let's check KLei official forums to see what people think.

"Wanda too OP pls NERF, I can't understand, where uncompromising survival, character needs 2 bons and 1 hard con, this is good game theory, where Wanda hard nerf, KLei, WHERE?! I can on me server do AFw wit' nothing but her back-time watch and whip, whip OP, too damage, I change to Warlu, make dope coke food, back Wanda and stuff face, I do 500 damage, WTF KLei?! My world feels stale after 1 in-game year, I can't handle this travesty, oh heavens, WHERE NERF?!?!"

Interesting.

Let's see what happens in pubs now.

No, not the KLei-official-server pubs, where Wilson N+1 staffs his face with Red Caps, and Wolfgang dies to Catcoons.

No, no, dear outwardly time-traveler. But the community pubs, the ones highly moderated, with rules in place for fair experiences, where advanced players dwell into obscure mechanics. Where Wilson soloes AFw, and farms Krampi via Butterfly farm, you know.

And marvel at the announces:

*Wanda died from the Passage of Time*

*Wanda died from the Passage of Time*

*Wanda died from the Passage of Time*

....

*Wanda died from the Passage of Time some more, darnit!*

 

Yes. Certainly her constant aging isn't a hard-enough con. For "forever alone" solo players in their abundance 5k+ in-game days world started when DST was beta. And their 200+ Scaled Chests full of Thulecite, rare Gems, Tusks and whatnot. Have I written something about console-commands too, Creative Worlds and the like? SHHHH, let's not decent into further lunacy! You know, the type of player that's most vocal (postery?!) in KLei forums and even via polls admits the above meme, with certain dissonance pride. Life in the wild, with only-but a deflated ball.

 

Wanda clearly needs harder cons.

 

PS: Passage of Time bes' B0$$ eva', flawless design, 11/10, recommended on Tw@tter!

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9 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

andin terms of raw damage Wurt and her super army can deal a lot more damage.

YESSSS. 100% this. The other day I was talking about how strange it is that Wortox and Wanda caused the most controversy upon release, when it is Wurt who has a personal army and Warly can double the whole team's damage. And both are fine.

(And the most fun characters before Wanda came out, IMO)

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9 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Yes. Certainly her constant aging isn't a hard-enough con. For "forever alone" solo players in their abundance 5k+ in-game days world started when DST was beta. And their 200+ Scaled Chests full of Thulecite, rare Gems, Tusks and whatnot. Have I written something about console-commands too, Creative Worlds and the like? SHHHH, let's not decent into further lunacy! You know, the type of player that's most vocal in KLei forums and even in polls admits the above meme, with certain dissonance pride. Life in the wild, with only-but a deflated ball.

and that users atleast tried her, imagine having people with 1 min playing time as her complaining about having a <20hp heal every minute per slot is op or others just imaginating impossible scenarios where wanda does console commands like stuff, reviving with her clocks to prevent frutration on players that died and someone stole their expensive items only useable by wanda

3 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

YESSSS. 100% this. The other day I was talking about how strange it is that Wortox and Wanda caused the most controversy upon release, when it is Wurt who has a personal army and Warly can double the whole team's damage. And both are fine.

(And the most fun characters before Wanda came out, IMO)

wanda op but wurt appears at dragonfly with 30 merms from the swamp

 

edit: better yet, wanda op but wendy has strong cons because has to help pipspooks

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