The problem of auto vote-kick "No griefer" mod in KLei servers.

[sinisterrkid]

This mod is in a gray area AT BEST. And people saying that whoever complains is "probably a griefer themselvses" are not addressing the issues raised in the slightest.

@Tranoze , just get a dedicated server already. Look up on Youtube how to do it, it's simple. May I recommend Nodecraft?

I'm sure Klei and Joe are quiet for the moment because it's not a straight-forward problem and requires some thought and organizing before reaching a conclusion. Hope that happens soon. It is obvious more people are getting negatively affected than there are people being "protected".

To paraphrase a comment I saw on one of these threads: The problem of getting attached to a pub server is a you problem.

[GNGR bred boi]

Truely it baffles me how some people still see how the mod is a good idea in the first place, nothing stops anyone from fabricating a claim and even posting a ban report to the mod, using someone's name but using someone else's Klei ID, flying under the nose of the mod creator and then someone else being banned from the mod because of it. 

[Mysterious box]

Personally rather than getting rid of the mod I think ownership should be handed over to Kiel or the mod should be banned from kiel official servers as sooner or later we're just gonna get some one programming something much worse.

[MondayNight]

9 hours ago, Halberd said:

....

Other thread does not provide any in-game context or how they obtain the ban list. The fact is only a small proportion of the people in the ban list manage to find where to get unban. As long as they don't know why they got kick they will forever be ban from Klei servers. 

Can you answer me that is it ok to spam kick anyone and permanently ban them just because they might: Hold a torch inside the server? Used one panflute? Burnt some science machine? kicked ONE member of these petty groups? Cleared a hound setpiece? Or some personal shenanigan with the modder and he decided to add a "burning base" reason to ban them off?

What did a person with 2.6 hours possibly do to deserve to be kicked before they were finished loading? What is the worst thing anyone could do to deserve a ban for more than 5 years?

....

 

Can you concede this: what is fun? No, not griefing, lil one; I understand, for some DST "totally stable and well adjusted" players it really is, but that's beside the sane point. The power of the internet searches, namely in our case - Steam search. Because I see your thread gaining a bit of "organic" traction, with some names popping recurrently here-and-there, I decided to check a hunch. That hunch being: we actually have 2 groups of Steam friends dunking one-on-the-other in these very KLei forums for their past pub fall-outs. And both of them might be... wait for it: griefers from various POVs. Some DST "totally stable and well adjusted" players, I know. We have here our good pal Gibberson, fine fellow, dandy forumite I must say. And then there is the newer yet so keen GNGR bred boi. But wait, I haven't forgotten our so-very-new Snugrugbug (many snuggies! XOXO!). And, of course, your bran-popped-out sock account you're now posting from. Can you guess what they have in common? Oh, heavens, the power of friendship! Plus the bundle of good intentions and heavenly help, kerillian 1417. Can you estimate what kerillian buddy there likes 1 to 2 do 3 so 4 ("usually having fun griefing on official server when i have no better sh.t to do") very 5 ("very fun place to grief with no consequences and meet with griefer friends") much 6? No griefing happening there for sure!

And then there's the other camp, the "diz KLei server, mi server" one. We know them by now quite well: blizy ("the B0$$ with da most"), Tranoze (trusty "right-hand" modder and script-AFKer of the ring), Miles ("the good one") etc etc. Can one guess where "Catcoon Den, Ipsguiggle was here!" these fine 2-camps chaps collided? Mmmmm?!?

Proverbial food-for-thought. With many "perhapses" at the middle.

 

And for your record, OP: yes, using purposely a complete Panflute for-no-reason is griefing. Burning someone Science Machine is griefing. Kicking players for wicked reasons (%hits&giggles, friend slots) is griefing. Being on a server with only one other person - some other player that has torches on in daytime all-time and leaving a trail of burnt stuff, ultimately culminating in a very crispy-strips base is, wait for it.... GRIEFING! And very-most yes: such recurrent actions from "very questionable" players warrant retribution. How swift and hard? Who knows... let's take friendly neighborhood Clouds, the bot-accounts Steam Family-Sharing abuser and raider-burner who for literally YEARS plagued EU servers with his shenanigans: yes, he definitely "deserve(s) a ban for more than 5 years" - a game-ban in my book. But hey, I'm a nice guy (no, not "nice guy"), I could settle for only some permanent ban from playing multiplayer - he can YOLO solo words and grief himself, yes? Wonderful!

 

Lastly, I don't contest blizstorm and Tranoze are using said mod for personal vendettas. Everything with human supervision and interests in-place will be subjected to bias and unfairness, is intrinsic. Can only be minimized at most. And this mod has its uses, vast majority of called-out players via mod's announcements are indeed and-so-very-much griefers. And there's no excuse, especially for the on-and-on ones. If you're a $hit-show "bundle of happy-stuff", play alone - vast majority won't tolerate your shenanigans at all. Also for blizstorm's bunch: get a personal dedicated server, lads. No one really cares about your "world records". By now it just became a "lol, look at those no-lifeers" meme, more so since the AFK and traps debacle.

[Captain_Rage]

More than turning into the normal predictable stalemate this thread has become real a SpongeBob episode. xdd

Spoiler

Sayonara.

 

[HowlVoid]

Me as a console player

I'll admit though that any kind of mod that has admin like powers in an official Klei server, looks badly on on those who use it. Idc if it keeps players from having their souls stolen by the devil themselves. A tool that has this much power (and has potential to be abused) and Klei has no control over it? I hope they do something about it.

Edit: Now that I've learned more on the subject, its not Klei's fault. I do hope they do something about it though. 

[Gods fiddler]

2 hours ago, sinisterrkid said:

The problem of getting attached to a pub server is a you problem.

this counts for griefers too? if someone join a pub server and then he got kicked by the mod is their problem?, i don't think that is a good argument

 

[sinisterrkid]

18 minutes ago, Gods fiddler said:

this counts for griefers too? if someone join a pub server and then he got kicked by the mod is their problem?, i don't think that is a good argument

What I was addressing was the use of the mod to make a pub server essentially closed to anyone outside your group of friends, which (seems) to have been the case for the server focused on in this post.

So it even confused me when you were right out the gate narrowing it down to griefers. I'm sure the mod has effectively kept actual griefers out in many situations, but the discussion is going beyond this.

The first post to complain about this mod a couple of weeks ago was more in line with what you are thinking about: It was someone asking to be removed from the black-list, since their griefing happened months ago, and they were sorry and so on. But the problem there was not that there was a specific public server that they wanted to get back into, as your counter suggests, but that it's now a permantently often occurrence that they get kicked out of any pub where anyone is using a mod controled by someone who it is proven to be a griefer themselves (as is discussed in this post).

[GNGR bred boi]

3 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

GNGR bred boi

Can't say I haven't seen you around on these very threads as well. 

[Gibberson]

Most people are on the banlist over trivial things or small things like killing glommer and eating food. Some people are even on the list over suspicion that they did anything bad.

The mod creator's friends show off griefing while they're free from being added to the list because they're his friends.

[BandanaGuy]

4 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

 

Can you concede this: what is fun? No, not griefing, lil one; I understand, for some DST "totally stable and well adjusted" players it really is, but that's beside the sane point. The power of the internet searches, namely in our case - Steam search. Because I see your thread gaining a bit of "organic" traction, with some names popping recurrently here-and-there, I decided to check a hunch. That hunch being: we actually have 2 groups of Steam friends dunking one-on-the-other in these very KLei forums for their past pub fall-outs. And both of them might be... wait for it: griefers from various POVs. Some DST "totally stable and well adjusted" players, I know. We have here our good pal Gibberson, fine fellow, dandy forumite I must say. And then there is the newer yet so keen GNGR bred boi. But wait, I haven't forgotten our so-very-new Snugrugbug (many snuggies! XOXO!). And, of course, your bran-popped-out sock account you're now posting from. Can you guess what they have in common? Oh, heavens, the power of friendship! Plus the bundle of good intentions and heavenly help, kerillian 1417. Can you estimate what kerillian buddy there likes 1 to 2 do 3 so 4 ("usually having fun griefing on official server when i have no better sh.t to do") very 5 ("very fun place to grief with no consequences and meet with griefer friends") much 6? No griefing happening there for sure!

And then there's the other camp, the "diz KLei server, mi server" one. We know them by now quite well: blizy ("the B0$$ with da most"), Tranoze (trusty "right-hand" modder and script-AFKer of the ring), Miles ("the good one") etc etc. Can one guess where "Catcoon Den, Ipsguiggle was here!" these fine 2-camps chaps collided? Mmmmm?!?

Proverbial food-for-thought. With many "perhapses" at the middle.

 

And for your record, OP: yes, using purposely a complete Panflute for-no-reason is griefing. Burning someone Science Machine is griefing. Kicking players for wicked reasons (%hits&giggles, friend slots) is griefing. Being on a server with only one other person - some other player that has torches on in daytime all-time and leaving a trail of burnt stuff, ultimately culminating in a very crispy-strips base is, wait for it.... GRIEFING! And very-most yes: such recurrent actions from "very questionable" players warrant retribution. How swift and hard? Who knows... let's take friendly neighborhood Clouds, the bot-accounts Steam Family-Sharing abuser and raider-burner who for literally YEARS plagued EU servers with his shenanigans: yes, he definitely "deserve(s) a ban for more than 5 years" - a game-ban in my book. But hey, I'm a nice guy (no, not "nice guy"), I could settle for only some permanent ban from playing multiplayer - he can YOLO solo words and grief himself, yes? Wonderful!

 

Lastly, I don't contest blizstorm and Tranoze are using said mod for personal vendettas. Everything with human supervision and interests in-place will be subjected to bias and unfairness, is intrinsic. Can only be minimized at most. And this mod has its uses, vast majority of called-out players via mod's announcements are indeed and-so-very-much griefers. And there's no excuse, especially for the on-and-on ones. If you're a $hit-show "bundle of happy-stuff", play alone - vast majority won't tolerate your shenanigans at all. Also for blizstorm's bunch: get a personal dedicated server, lads. No one really cares about your "world records". By now it just became a "lol, look at those no-lifeers" meme, more so since the AFK and traps debacle.

i hope you realize that nobody takes this post seriously because it's longer than melvin boothe's fingernails

[MondayNight]

22 minutes ago, guyfieridst said:

i hope you realize that nobody takes this post seriously because it's longer than melvin boothe's fingernails

Hey, look, more friends coming "tu da rescue"! I bet you must've loved OP's post then.

And is quite interesting how much of "hit dog will holler" seems to be going in this thread, eh.

[Misfortune010]

Okay well since im  new to this thread thing and all, I scroll through the mods ban list and literally spot this

 

This really the mod you guys want to keep a list? for all we know the burn bases could be just copy and pasting, and the people who are friends with him are literally griefers, im ashamed to be in a community where not even the high ranking members with high rep cant even realize how bad this situation is , its embarassing

[Gibberson]

insulting others because you're paranoid doesn't give you a solid argument.

If I recall, it was also one of your posts that got the previous forum locked for taking things too far?

[GNGR bred boi]

44 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Hey, look, more friends coming "tu da rescue"!

Playing the victim card because some people disagree with you. 

The real victims are the innocent people this mod has prayed upon. 

[Gods fiddler]

 

1 hour ago, guyfieridst said:

i hope you realize that nobody takes this post seriously because it's longer than melvin boothe's fingernails

i read the post, read long posts help me to practice english, also is interesting to know that some griefers are friends on steam

[GNGR bred boi]

9 minutes ago, Gods fiddler said:

interesting to know that some griefers are friends on steam

I don't think guyfieridst is a griefer but you wouldn't know because you support a mod that entangles innocent people in the mix. I guess everyone who doesn't like the mod for one reason or another is a griefer now? 

This shouldn't be a friend group vs friend group situation, the mod is effecting a lot of people and some of them can't even speak english or russian to the mod creator to defend themselves or get their ban removed. 

[Gods fiddler]

5 minutes ago, GNGR bred boi said:

everyone who doesn't like the mod for one reason or another is a griefer now?

did I say names?i was talking about the post not about guyfieridst

[OsiriCousland]

Not entirely related to this specific mod but I once innocently wandered into a klei server, got insta-vote kicked by 3 players whose steam profiles clearly suggested they were from the same group, and they mockingly called me a griefer. A later conversation with other random players was how I came to know of such a thing called no-griefer mod. AND that the 3 players were known griefers themselves.

For the record, I mostly play on my solo world and have never been in any ban list that I know of (and can check), but the existence of client-side vote kick mods based on an arbitrary list maintained by sketchy individuals/groups has made me wary of anyone using them since then - to me they're all selfish griefers and just want to claim a klei server to themselves.

[GNGR bred boi]

31 minutes ago, Gods fiddler said:

did I say names?

fair

[thesooz9000]

Huh, I wonder how this will turn out?

[Misfortune010]

To me for the situation at this point I dont think it matters for griefers or not, because at this point from what it seems innocent people are being dragged in, and this isnt even klei controlling it, from the list I see how some people could be oblivious saying its working, but if you we're roped in too you'd probably be angry too, and some of these seem like mistakes like reeds being burned by campfires (obvious mistake) and or other small things.

 

All im saying is this power is causing alot of people trouble and it shouldn't just be in control of somebody who isnt even involved with klei in a whole, and to the higher reps saying that its working and taking it as a joke, its all fun and games before you get added to the list for being a so called griefer, im not on the list myself and I can still see its a big problem within the community.

[glob]

I usually lurk klei forums to learn obscure stuff or cringe at stuff when i cant get around my IP reddit ban. I just couldn't resist on this one 

the very sad fact that they resort to saying "But you guys are friends with each other !! thats sus !" Which is basically Whataboutism. just implies they got nothing else to say anymore. other than pointing at the sky and saying its blue and its a griefer in an attempt to make themselves seem good while barring people partly from the game without any evidence other than "trust me bro" and also mixing them up with real griefers. 

 

If you really would hold a grudge on someone for killing your pet carrat accidentally by holding ctrl + f. then I recommend visiting an asylum or taking mediation classes. they are cheap

 

[Cali SS]

I am also an innocent victim of this mod. Anyone who has encountered me on a Klei pub knows I am far from a griefer, I have had people tell me they would even help me appeal.. I refuse to kneel to someone for something I didn't even do, especially if it wasn't even on a Klei hosted server.

[CarlZalph]

11 hours ago, sinisterrkid said:

I'm sure Klei and Joe are quiet for the moment because it's not a straight-forward problem and requires some thought and organizing before reaching a conclusion. Hope that happens soon.

The issue Klei/JoeW runs into when addressing things like this is that it sets a standard on 'the right way' to do things.

My anti Steam friends and family mod on the workshop is an example of that, I was told explicitly in a PM that they did not want to judge on how servers administrate themselves.

Granted this is a client only mod so the limits there affect every server and not just one, hmm.