How would you fix the Stranded Rocket problem?

[Oxygenbreather]

1 hour ago, Tsabo said:

Well, no.
Because the second time you'll know to add on an extra fuel stage, won't you?

Well given for at least a given technology state there is a limit on fuel/oxy stages you can put on a rocket and if you flew over half of the way the rescue rocket will always have the same problem as the first rocket.

And if your cananabilize thing. Okay, so if you flew the rocket out to max distance.. how do you ever come back? No you cannot put on more fuel stages due to height limit. Is having to wait for the next tech stage really a good idea? What about the last tech stage (Liquid Hydrogen)? Or do you simply make that so powerful now square on the hex is over the half limit?

[RuiPalhas]

10 hours ago, Oxygenbreather said:

Well given for at least a given technology state there is a limit on fuel/oxy stages you can put on a rocket and if you flew over half of the way the rescue rocket will always have the same problem as the first rocket.

And if your cananabilize thing. Okay, so if you flew the rocket out to max distance.. how do you ever come back? No you cannot put on more fuel stages due to height limit. Is having to wait for the next tech stage really a good idea? What about the last tech stage (Liquid Hydrogen)? Or do you simply make that so powerful now square on the hex is over the half limit?

I would say this situation isn't really a problem.

If you've sent a rocket with the highest tech so far away that it won't be able to come back and any other rocket you send gets the same fate, then that rocket is indeed lost.

However I see these suggestions as the solution for more accidental strandings or strandings with the earlier techs. I stranded a rocket earlier on by trying to use it to open the star map and forgetting to consider the fuel that would be required to go back to the planet! The rocket is still within reachable distance from the planet, it just doesn't have fuel left because I was hopping in a few directions so my dupe could explore the sky...

So in short, I don't think there will be a solution to recovering stranded rockets that flew too far away with the most powerful engine and the biggest fuel storage space. But those should be very rare I think. Probably a solution for those is to have an alert saying it won't have enough fuel to go back, which can still be ignored anyway.

[Electroely]

18 minutes ago, RuiPalhas said:

So in short, I don't think there will be a solution to recovering stranded rockets that flew too far away with the most powerful engine and the biggest fuel storage space. But those should be very rare I think. Probably a solution for those is to have an alert saying it won't have enough fuel to go back, which can still be ignored anyway.

Well, it should be noted that high tech doesn't always correspond to furthest distance traveled. It should also be noted that the starmap has limited space, so you can only get stranded so far from another planetoid. I'm pretty sure a fully fueled Radbolt Rocket can go from the center to the edge of the starmap in a single round-trip, so it should pretty much be always possible to save a rocket (especially if other nearby planetoids are used as refuel stations.)

[TuxSam123]

On 4/19/2021 at 1:48 AM, yoakenashi said:

Highlighting! Green shows out and back fuel range. Yellow shows one way distances. Red is unreachable.

I like this one.

[sakura_sk]

35 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

On 4/19/2021 at 7:48 AM, yoakenashi said:

Highlighting! Green shows out and back fuel range. Yellow shows one way distances. Red is unreachable.

I like this one.

 

Isn't that already implemented in the launch checklist? (*Green = check box checked)

Spoiler

 : Can reach destination and return

: Can reach destination but does not have enough fuel for return trip

 : Cannot reach destination

Although, yes, it would be easier the first time, if the destination arrow changed colors.

[yoakenashi]

50 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

Isn't that already implemented in the launch checklist? (*Green = check box checked)

I was referring to highlighting the hexagonal tiles in the star map to show how many the hexagonal tiles the rocket can travel in space. This way you can see if a planet is in a rocket’s return, one-way, on unreachable range BEFORE you select a destination for it.

[sakura_sk]

2 hours ago, yoakenashi said:

I was referring to highlighting the hexagonal tiles in the star map

Oh... Sorry for misunderstanding. I tried to imagine what it would look like and I can't decide if it would be interesting or more confusing/overwhelming for first time users

Spoiler

Example: Sugar engine, max reach 4 tiles

When selecting a destination for the rocket, the hex grid highlights reach of the rocket

When selecting a rocket you can see where it can go, how much "reach" remains

When the rocket travels a tile, if checked/selected again, green would only be one tile (6 hexes) around it and two more hex-circles of orange

*Maybe the grayed, partially discovered, hexes don't need to be highlighted, as you can't travel to them without a cartographic module 

 

[Oxygenbreather]

Better highlighting on the starmap is IMO a undisputable good idea, regardless of what other things you might do for this stranded situations.

[FreezingSlickT]

On 5/1/2021 at 8:12 AM, Oxygenbreather said:

Or how about this. If the rocket gets out of fuel it just slowly drifts to the orbit of the next planetoid, say 30 cycles per tile...

This is a really cool idea!  Maybe the closer they get, the faster they go to the planetoid?  Also, what about space stations for resource replenishing?  Dupes could also probably use them as colonies.

[n_t_p]

There's no problem. Don't get stranded. ez

[Tiru]

I think the best solution is the one most likely to actually stand a chance at maybe being implemented, because this is an issue that should be resolved one way or another. I had this happen on a early playthrough due to bug and it drove me crazy having the rocket forever in my list, especially since I couldn't rename it. All the docking options or extra resupply modules seems like a lot of work. Also, unless you already had such a rocket ready to go, it probably wouldn't help in many scenarios. If you didn't plan well enough to avoid stranding a rocket you likely don't have food or oxygen to let it slowly drift back to the planet or time to stage a rescue and it has probably only been 2-3 cycles at most which is worth just reloading. Dupes die in this game all the time and you either accept it or reload a save game

The only real issue I see is having the rocket stay in the list and ends up being space clutter and an extra thing for your CPU to deal with. To that end a self destruct that just removes it altogether I think is the best option since it would be quick to implement and is a reasonable trade off if for whatever reason reloading a save game isn't preferable.

[Tsabo]

3 hours ago, Tiru said:

Also, unless you already had such a rocket ready to go, it probably wouldn't help in many scenarios. If you didn't plan well enough to avoid stranding a rocket you likely don't have food or oxygen to let it slowly drift back to the planet or time to stage a rescue and it has probably only been 2-3 cycles at most which is worth just reloading. Dupes die in this game all the time and you either accept it or reload a save game

True, but you're missing the point. No-one cares that Meep will die a cold lonely death of asphyxiation on his own Natural Gas in the darkness of space. What people care about is a very annoying cluttered-up rocket list. Which is presumably why a lot of the "solutions" given here are "Blast it to atoms using a radbolt laser". The objective is to clean up the list, not save the passenger.

[Tiru]

53 minutes ago, Tsabo said:

True, but you're missing the point. No-one cares that Meep will die a cold lonely death of asphyxiation on his own Natural Gas in the darkness of space. What people care about is a very annoying cluttered-up rocket list. Which is presumably why a lot of the "solutions" given here are "Blast it to atoms using a radbolt laser". The objective is to clean up the list, not save the passenger.

@Tsabo I didn't miss the point, that was the exact point I was agreeing with. I was specifically saying anything other than a self-destruct is a waste of time and the biggest issue I have with stranded rockets is it staying on the list. I think we're on the same page here.

[babba]

Whelp whelp, stranded rocket ! Ohhhhhhhhh nooooooooo !

Is there still no way to recover a stranded rocket ( with dead crew ) ?

Whelp, whelp !

If there would be a way to refuel...That would be great

No in-space refuelling and in-space docking option ? I have got rescue rockets ! ...Suffocation...Whelp,whelp

Gnah gnah gnah gnah, ahhhhhhhhhhh ....

[TuxSam123]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:12 PM, Oxygenbreather said:

Or how about this. If the rocket gets out of fuel it just slowly drifts to the orbit of the next planetoid, say 30 cycles per tile...

Is no one going to notice how he said 30 cycles per tile instead of 30 tiles per cycle? Apart from that, it's a really good suggestion. Now the only thing missing are radlamps, radbolt joint-plates and space stations.

[sakura_sk]

1 minute ago, TuxSam123 said:

Is no one going to notice how he said 30 cycles per tile instead of 30 tiles per cycle?

I don't think there is a mistake there. A drifting rocket travels 1 tile every 30 cycles.

[TuxSam123]

4 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

I don't think there is a mistake there. A drifting rocket travels 1 tile every 30 cycles.

And you're right. However, he said 30 cycles per tile, when he shoud have said one tile every 30 cycles.

[Electroely]

2 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

The correct form is 30 tiles per cycle. He said 30 cycles per tile.

Well, "30 tiles per cycle" implies that 30 tiles are traveled in a single cycle. That's extremely fast... even the fastest rocket I know only travels 3.75 tiles per cycle.

30 cycles per tile (AKA 0.03 tiles per cycle) implies that traveling a single tile takes 30 cycles. I think it makes more sense for a drifting rocket, since it's floating through space with no strong force propelling it.

[babba]

Perhaps rockets without fuel could drift to the "closest" nearby asteroid ? If the closest is the same tile amount as some other asteroid, then perhaps with a gambling chance where the rocket may end ? I hope Klei implements a solution for players, to avoid stranded rockets.

I had a rocket without fuel in some asteroid orbit and it was possible to land it, with no engine thrust animation ( switched off engine, no heat emission ) as it was coming down. Its these little details which I find great being implemented by Klei

In-space docking and in-space re-fuelling + player built space stations ( fuel depot, galaxy wide energy grid etc. )...If that would be possible someday, that would be...Great

[TuxSam123]

1 hour ago, Electroely said:

Well, "30 tiles per cycle" implies that 30 tiles are traveled in a single cycle. That's extremely fast... even the fastest rocket I know only travels 3.75 tiles per cycle.

30 cycles per tile (AKA 0.03 tiles per cycle) implies that traveling a single tile takes 30 cycles. I think it makes more sense for a drifting rocket, since it's floating through space with no strong force propelling it.

Yeah, I kind of messed that up there.

18 minutes ago, babba said:

Perhaps rockets without fuel could drift to the "closest" nearby asteroid ? If the closest is the same tile amount as some other asteroid, then perhaps with a gambling chance where the rocket may end ? I hope Klei implements a solution for players, to avoid stranded rockets.

I had a rocket without fuel in some asteroid orbit and it was possible to land it, with no engine thrust animation ( switched off engine, no heat emission ) as it was coming down. Its these little details which I find great being implemented by Klei

In-space docking and in-space re-fuelling + player built space stations ( fuel depot, galaxy wide energy grid etc. )...If that would be possible someday, that would be...Great

We need space stations on the game! While we wait for that to happen, I do believe we need some autodestruct button on the rocket. A big, red one. Just be careful not to press it too early.

[Nebbie]

An ability to self-destruct rockets would be a nice feature, but what would really be awesome is a rendezvous.
Just a view of the empty space with the two rockets floating side by side, so we can construct ladders between for dupes to cross from the stranded rocket into the rescue vehicle, then deconstruct everything but the rescue vehicle for a nice material refund (probably Klei would have it have gravity nonsensically, so ladder/tile cost is lost, but oh well).