Unplayably low sim speed

[cpy]

I colonized 5th asteroid and game and I'm giving up on game, sim speed is probably 5-10 FPS when I pause game I get full fps.

Upgrade CPU? What kind of CPU should I upgrade my i9 9900K@4.8Ghz all cores to to get 60FPS?

Why do we even get so many asteroids when game starts to crap out so soon? I need tips! My bases aren't even that big I think.

The only thing that can make me quit ONI is low FPS (simspeed).

Is it those few mods I'm using? Can mods slow down game?

Also it's MUCH faster to kill game and load it again then to go to mainmenu and load save.

[Electroely]

So far I haven't had too much trouble with lag, but I noticed that radbolts are particularly nasty. I don't have exact measurements, but these radbolts are causing the game to stutter an extreme amount.

My FPS goes back to normal once the shot radbolts all hit their destination.

[furytale]

Compared to base game nothing changed - technically we still have one big map, just divided into asteroids. Therefore same old tricks apply - consolidate your debris in one tile, limit creatures paths, limit number of creatures, limit dupes paths. Multiple CPU cores are useless, single-threaded performance matters. And of course uninstall all mods, mods are bad .

[MinhPham]

Um .... can i have like 50 cent of screenshots of your colony ? Conveyor layout ? Unlike gas & liquid pipes has handled by SimDLL, the entire conveyor thing is managed using pure c#, which has a horrible performance . More thing on the conveyor rails = more lag

[cpy]

I use conveyors only for critter eggs. I'll edit in some screens. Gotta make them first.

Also having items instorage containers is bad?

Latest 20 screenshots are from current play

https://steamcommunity.com/id/cpypcy/screenshots/

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

Latest 20 screenshots are from current play

 What kind of screen is that...? 2-in-1?

[cpy]

Odyssey G9.

[The Plum Gate]

What are you driving it with? Graphics card?

[cpy]

My good ol 2080Ti. With DLSS it's pretty doable.

[sakura_sk]

34 minutes ago, cpy said:

Odyssey G9

k.

Sorry... What? I got distracted looking from one side of the screenshot to the other 

[The Plum Gate]

I've got a 21:9 3440x1440 and it's wide enough for me. I love it, love the colors, etc.

I was just going to check, sometimes if you have an amd card you can get much better performance by switching to an eyefinity setup. Not really sure how you're getting the range out of the gsync over a single cable, it doesn't seem possible.

Have you tried setting your desktop resolution to something like 144hz, and then setting the ingame resolution to correspond. I noticed the game ignore my preferences in favor of the desktop specs. So it ignored my 60hz request vs 75hz existing settings.

Also AMD drivers have been having issues with enhanced sync right now, but that's aside the point.

[cpy]

I don't have problems running 5120x1440@240Hz, gsync works, HDR works, I have problems ONI running like crap.

I don't think setting unsupported refresh rates will improve my FPS.

Changed refresh rate to 60/120/240 and ONI ran exactly the same. Why do I even try things I know won't work?

[The Plum Gate]

13 minutes ago, cpy said:

I don't think setting unsupported refresh rates will improve my FPS.

ok then.

Well, the monitor is a variable refresh rate monitor, so it should support any custom settings between its low end and its high end frequency. the common ones are 30 50 60 75 144, ..and now 240. And ONI has a setting for 240? I'm astonished really.

It's running like crap, it's likely to continue to do that on your setup. My ballpark style of suggestion was more or less hinting at trying some other resolution or even windowed mode. Is there any cirumstnce where you do get bettwer performance or is this a holistic type of crap where everything is crap, or is this more like a FPS gripe.

I mean really, 5120x1440 in a raster heavy 2d game is going to tax some aspect of rendering draw calls. Is your system hanging on a couple of pinned cores while the graphics card twiddles it's thumbs?

And just out of curiosity, what part of your PC is future proof, because most people will consider some part of their PC to be future proof. Mine is the power supply... until I can actually afford a new graphics card, my vega 64 is doing fine - but I do have some gripes about the drivers and the frame tearing that happens in the game.

 

[cpy]

7 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

here you do get bettwer performance or is this a holistic type of crap where everything is crap, or is this more like a FPS gripe.

 

7 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

ok then.

Well, the monitor is a variable refresh rate monitor, so it should support any custom settings between its low end and its high end frequency. the common ones are 30 50 60 75 144, ..and now 240. And ONI has a setting for 240? I'm astonished really.

It's running like crap, it's likely to continue to do that on your setup. My ballpark style of suggestion was more or less hinting at trying some other resolution or even windowed mode. Is there any cirumstnce where you do get bettwer performance or is this a holistic type of crap where everything is crap, or is this more like a FPS gripe.

I mean really, 5120x1440 in a raster heavy 2d game is going to tax some aspect of rendering draw calls. Is your system hanging on a couple of pinned cores while the graphics card twiddles it's thumbs?

And just out of curiosity, what part of your PC is future proof, because most people will consider some part of their PC to be future proof. Mine is the power supply... until I can actually afford a new graphics card, my vega 64 is doing fine - but I do have some gripes about the drivers and the frame tearing that happens in the game.

 

What the hell are you talking about all the time? Did you even read my first post? When I pause game I get 60 FPS (max ONI supports) I am talking about low FPS during max speed and having colonized 5 asteroids. New game runs insanely smooth. Raster heavy? The hell are you pulling out of your ass? My GPU load in ONI is barely 10-20%.

My guess is the only future proof thing is my computer case. I expect to use it at least once more on my next build.

My PSU is also not bad, Seasonic Titanium, but even that might give us sooner or later and with new MB power connectors this might get outdated sooner or later.

My CPU was my best guess at being future proof but AMD did pull a rabbit out of hat and made really nice high end CPUs. Intel 11th gen is slower than my 9th gen so I made right call there. I mean who the hell releases next get CPU that is slower than 2 gens before? That's intel for you I guess.

 

[DaClown]

12 hours ago, furytale said:

Compared to base game nothing changed - technically we still have one big map, just divided into asteroids. Therefore same old tricks apply - consolidate your debris in one tile, limit creatures paths, limit number of creatures, limit dupes paths. Multiple CPU cores are useless, single-threaded performance matters. And of course uninstall all mods, mods are bad .

Multiple CPU cores are useful only if you're running the Linux version of the game. The game is natively written for a single thread. *nix is multiprocessing and multithreaded inherently at the kernel level of the OS, so it doesn't matter to the OS that the game is written for a single thread; the game is distributed across however many cores you have and the kernel determines you need. However, the devs explicitly aren't accounting for the multithreaded differences between OSes, so the game will just crash out every now and then; I would bet on there being significant unhandled race conditions in the game engine on Linux that causes the problem. I get good frame rates though in conditions that the Windows players are reporting 5 to 10 FPS.

Otherwise, generally good advice. The dupes are really hard on performance especially if you don't restrict them from doing most errands; if they have anything other than total ban on an errand it adds a bunch of calculations to that dupe and all the other dupes which grows in proportion to the number of things orders issued. Not all that noticeable at start, but it becomes absolutely noticeable once you have a couple dozen dupes with a few thousand possible errands to do.

Creatures and dupes are very processor intensive; it is practical necessity to play in such a way as to minimize your reliance on them and minimize the number of them and to significantly restrict them to small tightly controlled environments that limit the possibilities that have to otherwise be computed.

Mods can add significant lag especially if they add a new building, new animations, or new objects to the game during runtime. Mods which just tweak existing values are less intensive on game performance. Mods which alter fundamental mechanics like the way pipes work are likely to be relatively unoptimized. It is a good idea to stress test mods before sinking dozens of hours into a modded game of ONI.

[cpy]

59 minutes ago, DaClown said:

Multiple CPU cores are useful only if you're running the Linux version of the game. The game is natively written for a single thread. *nix is multiprocessing and multithreaded inherently at the kernel level of the OS, so it doesn't matter to the OS that the game is written for a single thread; the game is distributed across however many cores you have and the kernel determines you need. However, the devs explicitly aren't accounting for the multithreaded differences between OSes, so the game will just crash out every now and then; I would bet on there being significant unhandled race conditions in the game engine on Linux that causes the problem. I get good frame rates though in conditions that the Windows players are reporting 5 to 10 FPS.

I HIGHLY doubt this claim. Unless you can prove it, post 100% core usage on 8 core CPU on linux. Because what you said is NOT multithreading but a thermal load distribution which also happen in windows where single thread is passed on like hot potato between CPU cores so that single core won't get overheated. Maybe you live in windows 98/XP era where such thing did not happen yet. Because this thermal balancing is present in windows 7 already and have nothing to do with multithreading.

Becuase why would klei use completely different algorythms for different OS when they can only port necessary minimum and not rewrite whole simulation code? Converting variables and environment vs your claim of writing whole new simulation code that is multithreaded just for linux. Do you read what you write after? That does not make any sence.

I know linux is more multithreading friendly and more optimized but that does not change fact that single thread simulation will not suddenly run on multiple cores because you are on Linux.

[SharraShimada]

@cpy, do you play zoomed out all the time? The more is displayed, the more the framerates is suffering until its unplayable. 

 

[babba]

21 hours ago, cpy said:

I colonized 5th asteroid and game and I'm giving up on game, sim speed is probably 5-10 FPS when I pause game I get full fps.

Upgrade CPU? What kind of CPU should I upgrade my i9 9900K@4.8Ghz all cores to to get 60FPS?

Why do we even get so many asteroids when game starts to crap out so soon? I need tips! My bases aren't even that big I think.

The only thing that can make me quit ONI is low FPS (simspeed).

Is it those few mods I'm using? Can mods slow down game?

Also it's MUCH faster to kill game and load it again then to go to mainmenu and load save.

Create a save game with all mods deactivated...Using no mods. Maybe someone here can then check it out

[melquiades]

This game light not be an intensive GPU user, but if you use a

On 3/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, cpy said:

What kind of CPU should I upgrade my i9 9900K@4.8Ghz all cores to to get 60FPS?

You could try a 5900x or more and report back 

Mine made playable again my 10000+ cycle colony (not 60 fps though). And I don't have such nice resolution either, and a less powerful gpu (5700XT).

[cpy]

7 minutes ago, melquiades said:

This game light not be an intensive GPU user, but if you use a

You could try a 5900x or more and report back 

Mine made playable again my 10000+ cycle colony (not 60 fps though). And I don't have such nice resolution either, and a less powerful gpu (5700XT).

ONI is 2D game so GPU is pretty much overkill. My guess is that storage and animals can cause problems?

I loaded it without mods and nothing changed. (I kept passive modes like furniture and stuff).

If anyone can fix this mess, then I still have much to learn in optimization.

Temporal Committee.7z

[babba]

2 hours ago, cpy said:

ONI is 2D game so GPU is pretty much overkill. My guess is that storage and animals can cause problems?

I loaded it without mods and nothing changed. (I kept passive modes like furniture and stuff).

If anyone can fix this mess, then I still have much to learn in optimization.

Temporal Committee.7z 7.18 MB · 0 downloads

STORAGE LAND RATING 10/10

First second thinking "Prank upload?".

PC had hickups for 5 seconds in storage compactor land, then runs at 25-50 fps ( scrolling can lead to some stuttering with your save ). However, ONi 30 fps is not the usual 3D game 30 fps. Its starting to get "less fun". I never use storage compactors or the jet pack suits flyers - Those 2 things can drag games a lot down. Also the game tends to run faster if there is no ( possible ) open/close (switch ) paths...The less built doors and the less used automation = game runs much better. Try to avoid building tons of confined spaces, leave more unblocked roaming space for creatures and dupes if you want to keep the fps high.

Avoid marking a zillion things as sweep ( similar to avoiding 1 million construction issued blueprints to be built ).

Try to get rid of all the storage compactors, those have always pulled the game speed down. Just let stuff laying on the floor. If one would also play this with the missing mods its probably "hellish" Try to avoid using sweeping or storage priorities at all, the fewer the better. Get rid of all the fridges...Try to only use a few per colony, anything else let it laying around if you want to produce gigatons of stuff.

If one builds 20 to 40 critter factories like below ( lets say 400-1000 critters in total ), these things start to take its toll on the fps. I don`t build critter farms BTW. Anything which uses path finding + animations drags the game fps down, bit by bit.

BTW your farm looks lovely 

Below: Too many possible path-finding choices, too much possible paths and confined building style = Affects fps as general playstyle. Tip: Use mesh tiles to allow unhindered gas travel, blocking gasses on a large scale also affects fps more.

Save uses here 5.1 gb ram, 20% speed of gtx 1060 and running on overclocked i7 7700k @ 4.6GHz 1 core turbo clock. If you avoid the mentioned things in the game you could be a happy chap I play without mods.

I just started a fresh Swamp map, restart number thousand. fps friendly mesh and my years old fps friendly build style of ladders with 4 tile space in between. I just started, in a few cycles it will only by mesh and ladders. If one plays thousands of cycles in a map, then its good to erase most crossroads...so that the amount of possible path finding is reduced.

I played with 500 dupes and epic "10 screens size" automatic mushroom farm in the base game...If you investigate what things pull fps down, you can build a ton of stuff in the game. You could start the editor and start changing things, to see what improves fps in your save file. At some point perhaps one has to decide...Do I want to have as example 1000 arbor trees in my save or rather 1000 critters You can do testing in the editor what and how stuff sucks on the fps, its often the addition of hundreds of different little things which all add up. Your shared findings are welcome

Will I get a nice hot radioactive coffee from you now ?

BTW my play style aim is always lots of stacked rockets in a big steam room, anything else is "primary"

There can be lots of player goals, someone else may aim for the biggest toilet sewage system ever...With gigatons of dupes pooping in sync, as endgame goal.

@Gurgel once mentioned something in the way that its good that Klei does not limit on how much one can build. I agree on that, I have always loved the freedom to build as much as we want. Touch wood that Klei improves game speed more over time

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

If anyone can fix this mess, then I still have much to learn in optimization.

Well... If you were searching for a frame-rate killer, I think I found two....

Spoiler

Puft in space

 

Shine bug in space

 

[cpy]

I hate pathfinding.

And here I was hoping for DLC with multiple colonies to be isolated and running on each core to have insane performance. Yet they did lazy approach and just slapped them all on one big map.

[marioespinho]

I have to be honest. For as much as i love this game, i believe it could/should have been better optimized so we didn't have to choose what to sacrifice in order to make it playable.

[DaClown]

13 hours ago, cpy said:

Becuase why would klei use completely different algorythms for different OS when they can only port necessary minimum and not rewrite whole simulation code? Converting variables and environment vs your claim of writing whole new simulation code that is multithreaded just for linux. Do you read what you write after? That does not make any sence.

I know linux is more multithreading friendly and more optimized but that does not change fact that single thread simulation will not suddenly run on multiple cores because you are on Linux.

Yeah. You don't understand and didn't read the link.

There's multiprocessing and multithreading. In general those are distinctly different things. Under the Linux kernel architecture they aren't treated as all that different. Within multiprocessing and within multithreading there are two major kinds, Kernel level and application level.

Klei writes a single code base in general that is compiled for different OSes. When the single threaded (threaded at the application level) code base is compiled for Windows the result is a program that executes as a single threaded application because Windows in general only multiprocesses or multithreads when the application requests it and setups up the architecture within the OS operating space to do so. When the same code base is compiled to run on Linux however, the resulting program is not executed on a single core in general; the OS itself independent of the application multiprocesses and multithreads the program in an equivalent parallel execution scheme. Same algorithm runs differently on different OSes. My claim has 0 to do with Klei writing an exclusive multithreaded version for Linux; all programs that execute on Linux are inherently multithread regardless of the original source code; the original source code could be written to add application level multithreading or multiprocessing but it doesn't have to be written that way when executed on Linux.

And your leap to "thermal load distribution" is just a weird way to interpret. On Linux if a given program starts to 100% a core the program's execution is distributed to additional cores if possible, so instead of running 1 core at 100% my OS runs 2 cores at 50%; if the demand becomes greater than 100% for a single core then the result is more usage on more cores.

Stated a different way, from the perspective of my OS I only have 1 processor.

Here's a screenshot of what my cpu usage looks like idling at the menu. Those big volatile spikes there? That's when I quit out of the game to the menu and the game did loading behaviors. You'll notice that they are not on one core but distributed across several cores.

Here's what the process manager reports as my CPU usage while running the sim at max standard speed with 11 dupes and tonnes of debris everywhere. Note the single value reported in the process manager; it is 26% of my CPU which in this context is 26% of all my CPU including all the cores.

Here's what that looks like on a per core basis; if you did the math you'd find that the average usage of all the cores is a little higher than 26% because I have a bunch of less demanding programs running in the background while I'm playing ONI.

ONI on Linux benefits from multithreaded and multiprocessing performance. That's not a controversial claim. Basically all programs running on Linux benefit somewhat from the inherent multiprocessing architecture of the kernel; it is why scientists and engineers use Linux preferentially; it means they can write arbitrary code and execute it on the OS and the OS figures out the mess of distributing it across whatever hardware is plugged into it. You only write multithreaded or multiprocessing code explicitly on Linux to optimize for your specific case to get better performance.

 

And for further reference here's me idling at the browser on this thread with ONI closed.