Bunnymen nerf

[The Automaton]

I think that the bunnymen nerf was huge, but the loot from the farms were a bit OP so it deserved it. I think that what it should be is that it always give 1 carrot and 1 meat/bunny puff and a  percent to give another carrot. Another idea is that they only give 1 meat/bunny puff and a percent to give 1 carrot.

I really didn't like the nerf, because now the farms are way to nerfed so maybe if Klei fix somethings like the percents of meat it should be ok

What do you think???

[cybers2001]

Bunnyman nerf puts it more in line with pigmen, considering bunnymen have a 4x faster respawn rate than pigmen.

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Bunnyman nerf puts it more in line with pigmen, considering bunnymen have a 4x faster respawn rate than pigmen.

@Misuto went very in-depth about how much worse bunnymen are than pigmen now in this other thread about the nerf.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

@Misuto went very in-depth about how much worse bunnymen are than pigmen now in this other thread about the nerf.

Maybe the nerf was tough but they didnt have any sense, being the best warriors and the best food source was so game breaking. And they are easy to set up for those players that didnt mind to hammer big amounts of hutches

[Cheggf]

20 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Maybe the nerf was tough but they didnt have any sense, being the best warriors and the best food source was so game breaking. And they are easy to set up for those players that didnt mind to hammer big amounts of hutches

In that thread Misuto was not arguing that the nerf was undeserved, he was arguing that because of how weak they are now and how much harder it is to build the hutches it wouldn't be unreasonable to lower the cost of the hutches.

In this thread I'm not arguing that the nerf was undeserved, I'm just saying that they are not better than / on par with pigmen as Cybers said, and pointing to a post going very in-depth about why they aren't.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

In that thread Misuto was not arguing that the nerf was undeserved, he was arguing that because of how weak they are now and how much harder it is to build the hutches it wouldn't be unreasonable to lower the cost of the hutches.

In this thread I'm not arguing that the nerf was undeserved, I'm just saying that they are not better than / on par with pigmen as Cybers said, and pointing to a post going very in-depth about why they aren't.

A little less carrots in their recipe cost will not hurt like 8 or something

But with the farms isnt that hard to get carrots since you find them naturally and you receive a seeds from a bird (yes an extra step but im just pointed that it exist)

[Misuto]

I got pinged into this.

 

I think bunnymen needed the loot drop nerf they received.

There are still several reason to use bunnymen. They are great against certain bosses (like bee queen) and don't require character specific strategies. They are great at auto farming spiders for free resources. They are great at auto killing bats at cave entrances letting you base closer to caves without a constant annoyance. They are also great in multiplayer because they will always be there when you show up to farm them (unlike pigs where if someone farmed them 2 days ago you may be wasting your time walking to an empty farm).

 

Pigmen give equivalent loot for far less effort, for sure, but bunnymen have their own advantages; bunnymen are just no longer the perfect farm for all characters and generally a perfect solution for all problems in all situations and game stages. 

 

I maintain that the cost of their house should be lowered to compensate for them dropping 3/16ths of the carrots they previously dropped. You shouldn't have to do the new crop farming if you want to build bunnymen at an efficient rate (even if new crop farming is super fast and easy) basically no other farm requires you to do an entirely unrelated farm to expand it. Imagine if you had to go ocean fishing to expand your pig farm - It just feels weird and unconnected. 6 carrots would mean the farm would (on average) create carrots and bunnypuffs are the exact right ratio to expand your farm with no real excess of either. Anywhere from 5-8 carrots would feel right and good arguments could be made for any one of those price points.

 

Also, remember that lowering the cost of hutches also means you get fewer carrots when hammering them down; while I know most people are unconcerned with speedruns and rushes, each bunny hutch hammered down is a meatballs worth of food in the current game (12.5 x 5), meaning they are frequently hammered just for food and boards during specific rushes. So lowering the cost is not even a strict buff as many might initially think. But at this point I feel like I'm derailing things.

 

Bunnymen are still good, both as a food source and as combat allies. The nerf made them a lot weaker for sure, but that was the point. Bunnymen were the perfect late game farm before and no single farm should be that oppressively strong that it makes every other solution for problems feel suboptimal by comparison. 

[cybers2001]

12 hours ago, Misuto said:

I maintain that the cost of their house should be lowered to compensate for them dropping 3/16ths of the carrots they previously dropped. You shouldn't have to do the new crop farming if you want to build bunnymen at an efficient rate (even if new crop farming is super fast and easy) basically no other farm requires you to do an entirely unrelated farm to expand it. Imagine if you had to go ocean fishing to expand your pig farm - It just feels weird and unconnected. 6 carrots would mean the farm would (on average) create carrots and bunnypuffs are the exact right ratio to expand your farm with no real excess of either. Anywhere from 5-8 carrots would feel right and good arguments could be made for any one of those price points.

But you do have to have entirely unrelated farms to expand pig farms. Where do you get your wood and stone from?

[0xF741B84C]

The only thing I hate about this nerf is that killing a bunnyman by yourself no longer feels as rewarding. This change was healthy for mass productive food farms but not for regular play. Nowadays if I run into a lonely bunnyman I rather pass knowing that I may get only one bunny puff from killing him.

My solution to this would be that the old loot table is applied only if the bunnyman was killed by a player or Abigail. Any other source of killing including catapults and other bunnymen would result into the new loot table.

[wigfrids hat]

On 1/1/2021 at 3:53 AM, Misuto said:

IYou shouldn't have to do the new crop farming if you want to build bunnymen at an efficient rate (even if new crop farming is super fast and easy) basically no other farm requires you to do an entirely unrelated farm to expand it. Imagine if you had to go ocean fishing to expand your pig farm - It just feels weird and unconnected.

you have to go fishing to get the materials for merm houses

[Cheggf]

25 minutes ago, gaymime said:

you have to go fishing to get the materials for merm houses

No you don't, merms drop fish on death. You only need to kill 2 merm per merm house. You need to kill like 30 bunnymen to get another bunny house. 

[wigfrids hat]

13 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

No you don't, merms drop fish on death. You only need to kill 2 merm per merm house. You need to kill like 30 bunnymen to get another bunny house. 

that doesnt negate my statement. merm houses still require fish and fishing is primarily how you get fish. if you are going to argue the pedantry of getting materials exclusively from mob drops then op's statement of needing to farm for carrots isn't valid either and if his statement isn't valid there is no conversation. context is important and your lack of understanding of that context is just tiring.

 

frankly though i'm not keen on fighting you just because you feel like fighting today. your statement is not relevant to the conversation and is just there to instigate so bye, felicia

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, 0xF741B84C said:

The only thing I hate about this nerf is that killing a bunnyman by yourself no longer feels as rewarding. This change was healthy for mass productive food farms but not for regular play. Nowadays if I run into a lonely bunnyman I rather pass knowing that I may get only one bunny puff from killing him.

My solution to this would be that the old loot table is applied only if the bunnyman was killed by a player or Abigail. Any other source of killing including catapults and other bunnymen would result into the new loot table.

the same reward as killing a regular pig

i dont like having differents loots depending of the method, it has no internal sense (maybe it has balance sense but is weird)

[0xF741B84C]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the same reward as killing a regular pig

First things first: Bunnyman ≠ Pig; by this logic I can argue why Merms does not drop just one fish or frog legs.

I consider bunnymen as a more advanced mob than pigs. They deal more damage, have HP regen, attacks in groups and have flee mechanic. It makes sense for them having a little better loot.

For the pigs, both drops are nice and useful, you either get 25 hunger points or an item that can be make into an armor or weapon, but with bunnymen you now get either 12,5 or 25 hunger points or an item that has basically no good practical use. With the old drop table, you always got at least 25 from carrots with a chance to get another 25 from meat.

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont like having differents loots depending of the method, it has no internal sense (maybe it has balance sense but is weird)

Yeah, I know, it's kinda weird, but my reasoning and main source of frustration comes from that the whole nerfing was done because of how easy and overpowered it is to setup a farm (with or without catapults) without making any compromise for non cheesy killing of them. It's like that the catapults and civil wars are the only ways how to kill them and that you can encounter them only in farms. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, 0xF741B84C said:

 

imo they are balanced. Before was stupid how much you get for 1 mob

 

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, gaymime said:

that doesnt negate my statement. merm houses still require fish and fishing is primarily how you get fish. if you are going to argue the pedantry of getting materials exclusively from mob drops then op's statement of needing to farm for carrots isn't valid either and if his statement isn't valid there is no conversation. context is important and your lack of understanding of that context is just tiring.

 

frankly though i'm not keen on fighting you just because you feel like fighting today. your statement is not relevant to the conversation and is just there to instigate so bye, felicia

Pig houses require you to kill 4 werepigs or about 16 normal pigs to create another. The carrot requirement of rabbit hutches used to require you to kill 5 rabbits. Merm houses are an absolute bargain at needing to only kill 2 merms, and merms are quite literally the main way to get fish since normal fishing can take up to 40 seconds per fish.

Merms dropping fish is completely relevant to the conversation because the entire conversation is about how much you need to kill the creature to make another house for it. If it isn't, why are people only saying the price should be brought down now that you need to kill 30 rabbits instead of asking for the price to be brought down when you needed to kill 5?

The only person making instigating statements is you. You say that merm houses require fishing, I correct you, so instead of accepting the correction you go off topic and start attacking my character about how I "Just feel like fighting today". Clearly you feel like fighting today saying crap like that. What purpose does that paragraph serve other than trying to cause an argument?