Don't Starve Together is Complex for Newbies

[.]

Playing with my friends and others just let me see some problems about this game. Here is the problems and some solutiouns that i have found.

Problems and Solutiouns:

1) Everything is unknown:
No matter whatever you think, this game have a crazy world which can be hard to understand sometimes. The persons which are gonna play this game without watching videos, should learn things by trying but at the last the person just gets paranoiac about everything and just stop to enjoy. I thought this was about my friends but when I look at steam reviews, I saw so much person complain about it. I really have a funny example for this. My brother just died bc of spiders then stoped fighting and went to gather wood but killed by treeguard. After that he just saw a mandrake that follows him and just calling me for killing it. He was running from it and I just was laughted so hard. He is doing that bc in dst world big creatures can ignore you and cute ones can attack you or both they can attack (or not). It's just not about creatures too, they don't know how sanity/health/hunger works and they don't know even how to and what to eat in dst. Maybe you just don't care about it but it's important for us too. The new players just join to the game without knowledge of what they can do. When I ask them why don't u practice at single, they just say we don't know even what to practice. This is a big problem for all of us.
>inb4 so don't play with news
1) Solution: 
Most of this problems can be solved with a quick new starter guide easily. I mean when u enter the game first time a screen can pop up and say "You look so new in DST, What about a guide tour that will make your gameplay more easier?" and player should able to pass it or give a try. In the trailer there should be little popup messages like "This is your sanity. Monsters, darkness or gross things like Wurt can make you insane immediatly". With that way game could help the player about basit things like cooking, eating, fighting, farming etc. without spoilers and all of us will be saved from babysitting.

2) Events make things more unknown: 
As you know events add things to the game like carrat for day of carrat, toys for halloween etc. My friend just picking those and keep asking me what is bat toy, what is the vampire tooths and it's just piss me of. I just said if you saw anything about halloween on ground, don't pick it. Then he just saw a walking cane and passed it bc he tought that was an another event thing. This is annoying. They just don't know the regular game.
2) Solution:
It's pretty easy to solve. All of event items' name should have a different colour. All winter items could be blue, hallowen could be purple and year of carrat orange maybe. In the guide tour, pop ups can teach players that too.
 

[ZTheNecromancer]

I initially thought this meant that DST was good for a news broadcast.

[sinisterrkid]

I agree with some of what you posted, and have some points to add to it.

43 minutes ago, Slagger said:

The persons which are gonna play this game without watching videos, should learn things by trying but at the last the person just gets paranoiac about everything and just stop to enjoy.

It must be so frustrating dying many times over when you're starting in DST. The experience of this will vary whether the new player is playing solo, or on pubs, or with someone more experienced who is taking care of them. Or if the revival method caps their max health.

But on many scenarios I can see it making the player more and more willing to abandon the game.

And regenerating the world to start over, if necessary, takes a very long loading time.

 

I don't agree with your proposed solution, though, because personally I strongly dislike starter guides and prefer figuring things out as I go.

I got into Don't Starve through the mobile version of the game (it exisits and it's really well ported). But in this version there is a "Classic" mode, and a "No Sweat" mode, where you basically start with an infinite meat effigy, literally called Compromising Statue. I didn't get as much enjoyment playing this mode, cause it felt like playing in the kiddie pool, but it was great for hooking me into DS. Whenever I wanted to test something out for learning purposes I'd get out of Classic, jump into "No Sweat" mode for a bit and mess around to get a grip of the environment without consulting guides.

Without it I'd be less experimental for the only reason that I wouldn't want to suffer through several long regenerating world loading screens.

 

Most people on the forum would disapprove of "No Sweat" mode, even if it gets called "Beginner's mode", just to make sure everyone knows it's not the legit experience. But it would actually be a great tool for lots of new players having their ghost form ignored in pubs and without the patience to see more loading screens than actual play.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Slagger said:

After that he just saw a mandrake that follows him and just calling me for killing it. He was running from it and I just was laughted so hard.

But this is great 

[.]

23 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

I initially thought this meant that DST was good for a news broadcast.

BREAKING NEWS WILSON FINALLY FIGURED A WAY TO THE BASE.

[ZTheNecromancer]

3 minutes ago, Slagger said:

BREAKING NEWS WILSON FINALLY FIGURED A WAY TO THE BASE.

Someone please make this happen.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

yes and i loved it when i started

the "science" from the title is about experiment with the game and its mechanics

[.]

10 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

I don't agree with your proposed solution, though, because personally I strongly dislike starter guides and prefer figuring things out as I go.

 

Dude, I don't talk about that stuffs teach you all game and giving everything. I just talk about something like a guide enough to keep you alive. Just like building a torch, fire, cooking on fire, using axe/pickaxe, using map (yeah i saw persons that don't know how to use). I don't want to them add details that much like crockpots, magic etc. Also it just could be "passable", if you played zomboid you probably know what im talking about. When you just play for first time game ask you if u want to want a quick guide. you just can pass it and play whatever like you want. It's not changing for people that don't want to die that much. They just will watch youtubers that tell all game points and ruin the fun of it. And if you ask me, i thinking same like you. Discovering a game is important for me, i only use guides when i stuck. 

[Mike23Ua]

From personal experience I like how playing each character has some sort of Takeaway, Like for example if you play Wormwood you learn how to heal by other methods besides food. If you play Wickerbottom you learn how to manage sanity without sleeping, if you Play Wendy you quickly learn that plucking flowers restores Sanity (and she also happens to the best character at obtaining Top Hats) So it teaches importance of things like Healing Glands and Top Hat, If you play Wurt you learn how to survive off something other than Meatballs and you learn build your own Army, If you Play Willow you learn methods of easily manipulating your Sanity above/below threshold to trigger Bernie. Playing Wigfrid you learn how to survive by not eating straight berries or carrots from the ground, and more often having to chase down and kill what you eat.

Almost all characters have something you learn that can be applied as knowledge learnt when you play as someone else.

that IS Dont Starve Togethers learning curve.

Now there are certain META Strategies I 100% don’t agree with at all- and the reason I DON’T agree with them is because At it’s heart and core it’s is an Open world SANDBOX game, craft whatever you want to craft, go wherever you want to go, do whatever you want to do, and adapt your very own playstyle- 

Which is why I hate video streams for this game because they don’t do it justice- most every stream I’ve tuned into involves X item for Y purpose...

What happened to the Sandbox Survival of playing and surviving your own way? 

it’s simply not there.. and I don’t try to tell people the best way to play because literally the product description says to play your way.

Which I believe is also why should the player CHOOSE to do so there are OPTIONS to disable Winter, Summer, Spring, Hound Waves, etc..

That should be Klei’s 2021 Moto & all future content updates for this game now that I think about it: PLAY YOUR WAY.

If a friend asks for help I help but otherwise, I let them explore the game at their own pace and learn and adapt their own play style.

There are devices built into the game that will aid in said help (like a flower fueled Sisturn), but for the most part I let them play their own way and enjoy the game the way they want it- I disable Winter and set things to Autumn only when They specifically ask that I do so.

Otherwise: My worlds would be 24/7 Mad Unpredictable Chaos.

The game teaches you how to play, in character selection, in game character quotes, the compendium cookbook, all of that helps players like Myself who don’t resort to Wiki pages learn & figure things out for themselves, their own way & adapt their own playstyle & preferences.

If you want your friend to learn how to do a specific thing: Maybe teach them that one thing.. but don’t teach them EVERYTHING because for me personally the enjoyment of this game is learning & figuring things out for yourself.

As mentioned at the start of this reply- Character selection can teach players a thing that they can then use that learned knowledge when selecting a different character.

[me real life]

4 hours ago, Slagger said:

2) Events make things more unknown: 
As you know events add things to the game like carrat for day of carrat, toys for halloween etc. My friend just picking those and keep asking me what is bat toy, what is the vampire tooths and it's just piss me of. I just said if you saw anything about halloween on ground, don't pick it. Then he just saw a walking cane and passed it bc he tought that was an another event thing. This is annoying. They just don't know the regular game.

That's... kind of bad advice on your part. You say yourself that new players don't know the regular game, but then you got annoyed by your friend asking questions and told him vaguely to not pick up "anything about halloween." I feel like I would've ignored a walking cane too in his situation, since you got annoyed by his curiosity and then told him not to pick up anything abnormal in a game where he doesn't know what's normal.

Regardless, you can turn events off in the world settings entirely. The first world with a new friend likely isn't going to become a long enough playthrough to go through holiday events and want to take advantage of them, so you won't be missing out on anything and they won't be confused.

[ZTheNecromancer]

We still need that DST news broadcast.

[viberr]

1 minute ago, ZeeDragon said:

We still need that DST news broadcast.

what would they(whoever would run the broadcast) even talk about on it?who would run the broadcast?and why?

all stupid questions i know ill add another one.so its the DST news broadcast so would they talk about the DST forums on it?

also quick nitpick. we don't"need"a DST news broadcast Im pretty sure you mean we"want"a DST news broadcast 

[ryvrdrgn14]

People are meant to fail and die in this game then get better in the next run. Yes, Wiki, forums, subreddits and tutorial videos exist. People who want to get info will find the info.

I don't think that DST is that type of game where you need to put a handholding tutorial like every MMO does these days.

Game designers these days just trash the experience of discovery in their games in favor of cheap and uncreative tutorials.

[ZTheNecromancer]

6 minutes ago, stranger again said:

what would they(whoever would run the broadcast) even talk about on it?who would run the broadcast?and why?

all stupid questions i know ill add another one.so its the DST news broadcast so would they talk about the DST forums on it?

also quick nitpick. we don't"need"a DST news broadcast Im pretty sure you mean we"want"a DST news broadcast 

Ever heard of a joke?

[viberr]

7 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

Ever heard of a joke?

oh come on all i ever do on these forums is make sarcastic jokes 

so no i don't know what jokes are. what does a joke mean?

[ZTheNecromancer]

Just now, stranger again said:

oh come on all i ever do on these forums is make sarcastic jokes 

so no what does a joke mean?

"Gee Squidward, maybe Santa will give me a dictionary so I can understand what you just said!"

[viberr]

1 minute ago, ZeeDragon said:

"Gee Squidward, maybe Santa will give me a dictionary so I can understand what you just said!"

first of all i would say im more plankton than squidward second santa isn't real 3rd whos use a dictionary in 2020?

 

[ZTheNecromancer]

Just now, stranger again said:

first of all i would say im more plankton than squidward second santa isn't real 3rd whos use a dictionary in 2020?

 

I really don't know why you picked this fight in first place, we're getting off-topic here.

[sinisterrkid]

25 minutes ago, ryvrdrgn14 said:

People are meant to fail and die in this game then get better in the next run. Yes, Wiki, forums, subreddits and tutorial videos exist. People who want to get info will find the info.

I don't think that DST is that type of game where you need to put a handholding tutorial like every MMO does these days.

Yup. The fear of dying and having to start over is an integral part of it. To me the only "problem" to be solved for the newbies is making the transition between failing and starting over smoother.

I mentioned the "No sweat" mode, but strangely enough, Wilderness mode is the closest to it (for new players who die all the time.) You immediately get sent to another point of the map, dust yourself off and continue on.

[viberr]

Just now, ZeeDragon said:

I really don't know why you picked this fight in first place, we're getting off-topic here.

true sorry everyone

well on topic.yes don't starve together is complex for newbies and i like it like that

[Pikapikap]

[ryvrdrgn14]

3 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

Yup. The fear of dying and having to start over is an integral part of it. To me the only "problem" to be solved is making the transition between failing and starting over smoother.

I mentioned the "No sweat" mode, but strangely enough, Wilderness mode is the closest to it (for new players who die all the time.) You immediately get sent to another point of the map, dust your self off and continue on.

I don't know what "No Sweat" mode is, but I already thought that doing things like Endless/Wilderness and turning off hounds would be enough for players to learn. Maybe adding an 'easy mode' to the base game that just adjusts settings automatically might be fine.

 

As for PC, console commands exist. People can be geared up instantly and summon monsters they want to practice fighting and they can do this as much as they want. Rollback is also a thing so people can just keep trying while maintaining their progress.

 

The difficulty of the game is optional. If people can't hack it in default, then tone stuff down. When you get the hang of it, then go for default settings. Krampus isn't going to come down from your ceiling and shame you for doing so.

 

If people can enjoy playing a game on easy settings, they can tone down DST settings and still have fun. There's no need to pretend that they're Edgy Rick.

[viberr]

Just now, ryvrdrgn14 said:

There's no need to pretend that they're Edgy Rick.

heh you mentioned the guy

but i agree with what you said in your reply

in my opinion my favorite phase of DST WAS the learning phase.yeah there were times where i put something on none (actually a lot of things on nothing)and there were time where i put winter on very short but that was part of the learning experience and i loved every second of it 

while i do like your second solution your first one not so much 

my biggest regret when playing DST was reading the wiki and watching guide videos.i just wish i can go back and not watch any guides it would have made the experience so much more fun so to add a pop  up which already takes you to a guide is a no from me

[Mike23Ua]

No Sweat Mode is a DS Mobile exclusive Mode- And it extends far beyond your basic settings options- I really need to dig this old thread I created back up.. because it actually mentions the No Sweat Mode Features-

For anyone not wanting to click that: You could turn off Insanity, you could turn off Freezing while Cold instead of turning Winter Off Completely & missing out on experiencing Winter exclusive mobs, You could turn off Overheating in Summer & you could turn off dying when starving.

But You could ALSO toggle to start the game with an already reduced health core like you had died & Respawned already.

In Short DS Mobile has way more customization features then DS on Xbox/Ps4

and I specifically said DS, Not DST because DST isn’t on Mobile (yet.. ) 

No Sweat Mode basically catered to the players who just wanted to chill build a base or explore what all they could do in the game and learn things at their own pace.. 

It allowed for example them to enjoy a peaceful day just walking around without a care in the world, And while it was a Mobile exclusive Mode... it was still something KLEI created and was official.

Once players felt comfortable and learned enough in No Sweat Mode they could attempt Standard Survival, or even get crazy with it and start with reduced Health Cores! 
 

I Don’t think DST needs a step by step tutorial- But if we got more control over BOTH How EASY and how HARD our play sessions would be, I certainly would not be complaining.

However- The Pendulum would have to Swing Both Ways so it balances out for all players and there can be people who prefer No Sweat, & people who want to see Klei’s very own version of Uncompromising Mode. 

Edit- Oh and the In-Between of course I can’t forget them!! Maybe theres people who want some parts of their game under No Sweat Rules, and Some parts of that same game under Uncompromising Rules to get a nice perfectly blended mix of how they prefer gorging themselves on their game content.

[Notecja]

I remember my starting experience with DS solo. I had some experience from other games and I knew I need reserch station, light (in other games monsters were spawning in darkness) and food. The first thing I learned was feeding pig to get manure to get farms. Last thing I learned ratatouile was terrible choice.

I died 6th day due to treeguard.

On next run I died due to first hounds.

Later I just turned off hounds, so I could survive till Winter. I dont remember how I was dealing with sanity, but I remember Deerclops smashing my base. xD

In same time one of my friend was trying to play solo, and she died first night due to Charlie.

In the meantime with other friend we were trying to play together... But most breaking point we got: from other players guide, from wiki, and (for me) with Wendy rework (Abby helped a lot to be less scared of hounds, spiders etc).

[sinisterrkid]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

[snip]

No Sweat doesn't extend the settings options, it's the pocket edition as a whole that does.

I never liked changing the settings to make the game easier, and prefered instead to have as the only crutch the instant revival (at a price, but instant), which is why I mentioned Wilderness mode as another good mode for learning the game.

But seeing as people in this thread are saying they really enjoyed learning the game through changing the settings, maybe I'm wrong. Which makes me happy, since changing settings is obviously more common for newbies than changing to Wilderness mode. So it's probably all fine.