Lucenix Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 On that, I was re-reading some stuff about The Forge and have another theory regarding what side Charlie is on... All throughout the Forge, and even the Fuelweaver himself (if you stretch it a bit), Pugna says that we don't know the forces we serve... Spoiler Fuelweaver: Pugna: ...like we serve Them without knowing and are trying to make Them... come back? We are doing something for Them, or at least that's what Pugna and the Fuelweaver think. BUT those two seem to be wrong, and we have evidence to that. When the Fuelweaver dies (pulled down by Charlie's thorns) he reflects a little bit, and our survivors have something to say about Pugna... Spoiler Fuelweaver: Pugna's examination: ...this makes it seem like those two are mistaken when they think we serve Them, probably because those two hold a severe grudge against Them, as they both lost everything to Them. What does it all mean? In a some kind of sense, Charlie isn't serving Them, the opposite perhaps. She is doing something... but what? I imagine she wants full power, full control. She has the power of the Throne, probably a Throne where They have sat down before, so it would be plausible to assume They still do and we, as survivors, serve Them, mistaking her for Them. Maybe Charlie is trying to gain enough power to challenge Them and Their influence, breaking the chains of Their control over the Throne so she can be the only, sole ruler of the Constant, the Hub and, ultimately, the whole DST-Multiverse (please give me a better name). Bringing the fact back that she's summoning the Moon, she's gathering forces to destroy Them. I know this is literally the entire opposite of the original theory but, well, there are always two sides to a coin, and it's all speculation. One might be right, maybe it's the other. Probably neither is right, or they could be both right (nah, they won't). Either way, I'd like to read what you all think. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonatik Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: Don't starve, To-Get-Her Nice touch ! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: Don't starve, To-Get-Her Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I see the ROT update splitted in two parts.From the New reign update,we have seen the shadow chess pieces,some kind of warriors that Them are setting up.The first part of the ROT update is about the Moon trying to even the odds. I think that the second part of the update will be Them coming in full power to destroy the Moon once for all,because the Moon is something which prevents them from invading more worlds,like ours.The moon is multidimensional entity which oposses Them,that is why Them cannot manipulate things directly and must use a mediator of some sorts(Codex Umbra,Maxwell and now Charlie) I really like your theory,gŕeat work! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 If they destroy the moon... then no more glommer no more instant krampus farming... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: If they destroy the moon... then no more glommer no more instant krampus farming... they may crack the shell,but not the power(still on the Them team tho) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1335991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Charlie Dark said: If they destroy the moon... then no more glommer no more instant krampus farming... Tbh destroying the moon is a really naughty thing so maybe the moon itself is a krampus piñata Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Lucenix said: Tbh destroying the moon is a really naughty thing so maybe the moon itself is a krampus piñata Maybe the moon is the imp homeworld? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, minespatch said: Maybe the moon is the imp homeworld? the return of them Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 15 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: the return of them "I still rember the day the Moon fell completely. It cracked open, from pole to pole, and unleashed what was beneath. We hoped for knowledge, for a way out, for so much. We dread destruction, corruption, another enemy to face, we dread so much more... But not this. Anything but this. Who would've dreamed of such madness. Oh they were thousands, maybe millions, all packed up inside that sphere, waiting for their time to rain from the skies. Soon enough, we were subjugated, entirely consumed by their laughs and their evil. We will never forget that night, the night that They returned. The fall of the Krampus." Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 So, to get back on topic... I wonder if we'll get to encounter Charlie/Metheus at some point, her quotes really make me wonder. "...Make your jokes...I'll be seeing you soon..." replying to Maxy's quote for the florid postern. "I should like to speak, face to face." replying to sister's Winona's quote for the active mandrake. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 Just now, Charlie Dark said: So, to get back on topic... Ah... aham... you're right... sorry... so... 6 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: I wonder if we'll get to encounter Charlie/Metheus at some point I would love to see Charlie fully realised like Maxwell was, taunting the players and giving them quests (as we are the lapdogs of the Throne), and it seems Klei is swinging that way with Pearl (fully fletched-out NPC's roaming around). Some stuff she could do would be guide us towards what she wanted but more directly, not like it was with the Ancient Murals, like Maxwell points out... Spoiler Speaking about these two, answering the why Charlie led us down here and the why Maxwell thinks it won't work could clarify so much... Only if we had evidence... ...more like Charlie really right in our face taunting us, telling us stuff and teasing us with stuff to do to escape. Until now, she only teased our curiosity, by giving us stuff to do that she knew we would, like kill the Shadow Pieces and the Fuelweaver while also activating the Gateway (which ties in really nicely to the curiosity theme that @Blunderbuss sugested)... Spoiler ...and so she never really showed herself to us. Now, the Moon wants to show us forbbiden knowledge, it would be really cool to see Charlie step up and take the lead she so rightfully deserves. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lucenix said: Ah... aham... you're right... sorry... so... I would love to see Charlie fully realised like Maxwell was, taunting the players and giving them quests (as we are the lapdogs of the Throne), and it seems Klei is swinging that way with Pearl (fully fletched-out NPC's roaming around). Some stuff she could do would be guide us towards what she wanted but more directly, not like it was with the Ancient Murals, like Maxwell points out... Hide contents Speaking about these two, answering the why Charlie led us down here and the why Maxwell thinks it won't work could clarify so much... Only if we had evidence... ...more like Charlie really right in our face taunting us, telling us stuff and teasing us with stuff to do to escape. Until now, she only teased our curiosity, by giving us stuff to do that she knew we would, like kill the Shadow Pieces and the Fuelweaver while also activating the Gateway (which ties in really nicely to the curiosity theme that @Blunderbuss sugested)... Hide contents ...and so she never really showed herself to us. Now, the Moon wants to show us forbbiden knowledge, it would be really cool to see Charlie step up and take the lead she so rightfully deserves. I'd say that Klei is teasing us, since Spoiler Charlie has been seen in many trailers now, in form of jumpscares, we've heard her maniacal laugher twice, again in game trailers as her "human self" What does this all mean!? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonatik Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Charlie as Npc ? So we could go to see her on the throne (new location). She would give us quests until some fight at this same place ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Moonatik said: Charlie as Npc ? So we could go to see her on the throne (new location). She would give us quests until some fight at this same place ? If we'd get to see her, I'd doubt she'd be in NPC form. She doesn't want to be seen for some reason... Even with moggles you become immune to her, which don't "provide light", this is just complicated.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 some of the examination quotes for gestals and the althar remembers me Nyarlathotep from lovecraft mythos, he trick the humanity sharing knowledge to his own or to create chaos, like sharing atom energic theories so humanity destroys via atomic bombs, and how gestals pass throw us to steal our energy (making us sleep and hungry) like the stelar vampire from another tale. Its clear that survivor are releasing something when they put together all the pieces for celestial altar and doesnt seem friendly. So im expecting a azathoth (that eye in the sanity stat) shape boss with lore like nyarlathotep Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 There's also a possibility that she could be replaced... at some point. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonatik Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: If we'd get to see her, I'd doubt she'd be in NPC form. She doesn't want to be seen for some reason... Even with moggles you become immune to her, which don't "provide light", this is just complicated.. You forgot that Wilson saw her. So it's maybe possible. Can a dev come to this thread for ANY REACTION, please ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: her quotes really make me wonder. "...Make your jokes...I'll be seeing you soon..." replying to Maxy's quote for the florid postern. "I should like to speak, face to face." replying to sister's Winona's quote for the active mandrake. Damn I really strayed off topic... I feel divided by those quotes. On one hand, I hate having to resort to cut out content (even if it is hidden in the code) as the quotes were erased since Woodie's rework (that guy really hates lore). On the other hand, they were canon before, at the very least when Charlie talks about Maxwell those ones endured throughout the whole A New Reign, from the Cyclum puzzles passing through The Forge and The Gorge, and Winona's were around at the start of Return of Them (only the first update though). They tell us a lot about Charlie's motivations and her true feelings towards Winona, as they are really humanizing, even if she is a Queen of Darkness she cares for her sister (but more for her plan...), and the grudge and hatred towards Maxwell. They are really cool and I hate that they have been removed... they built the characters up without giving up any lore and what's to come... and now I don't know if we still can use them to predict the future. That being said, I would love to hear what's your opinion... One thing we may have to study more is if those quotes have already been fulfilled, that is, their meaning has already passed and we didn't notice it, that's why Klei took them down, because they wouldn't make sense regarding what's to come. Maybe see you soon is refering to Charlie's thorns destroying the Fuelweaver and she using the Gateway, something that has already happened. But that would leave the "speak, face to face" to be done, as if something had already happened by now we would've known through Winona's quotes. The context is really important, as are the dates when those quotes were took down, as they can inform us to Klei's intentions for those quotes, and if Charlie is really coming to light or just playing in the backstage. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Lucenix said: Charlie is really coming to light or just playing in the backstage. Now you reminded me of something else... Some character had a quote "the stage is nearly" set for something, I think it was Wortox? I can't remember! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Moonatik said: Can a dev come to this thread for ANY REACTION, please ? Tbh I wouldn't want that... When creators start reading fan-theories it's really easy to get caught up in the infinite web that is the collective conscious, especially since each one of us has a canon in their own heads of what's true and what could be true. Diving into the pool of theories can widdle down your own creativity if they are too overwhelming, because they can steer you into a path that isn't your own just to satisfy the audience... it would be cool to get any sense of direction that our theories are in the right path but that comes in-game (or in-puzzle) as that's the place to make things canon (just so we don't have confirmations in a forum that could become outdated like the DS-timeline). I think this was Dan Harmon's position on the subject but I may be wrong... anyway, that's what I believe in. 8 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: Now you reminded me of something else... Some character had a quote "the stage is nearly" set for something, I think it was Wortox? I can't remember! You're remembering correctly! It's about the new Celestial Tribute and it was really Wortox, as he's a creature that can willingly leave the Constant and thinks this is all a game, he knows a lot more than the others. Spoiler just to brag I had used that quote before Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonatik Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lucenix said: Tbh I wouldn't want that... When creators start reading fan-theories it's really easy to get caught up in the infinite web that is the collective conscious, especially since each one of us has a canon in their own heads of what's true and what could be true. Diving into the pool of theories can widdle down your own creativity if they are too overwhelming, because they can steer you into a path that isn't your own just to satisfy the audience... it would be cool to get any sense of direction that our theories are in the right path but that comes in-game (or in-puzzle) as that's the place to make things canon (just so we don't have confirmations in a forum that could become outdated like the DS-timeline). I understand. It was more to stop my mind workin on, as we don't have these answers, as many things won't maybe never happen, as... OK, I only wish for the best. There's place to make big things, the only sure thing. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Moonatik said: I understand. It was more to stop my mind workin on, as we don't have these answers, as many things won't maybe never happen, as... OK, I only wish for the best. There's place to make big things, the only sure thing. Yeah I'm sorry I don't want to turn anyone away, just trying to remind everyone (myself included) that creating all this stuff is tough work... We all get caught up in this and sometimes we just want answers, and to say the information comes slowly is an understatement, but Klei works their asses off to bring us the best 32 minutes ago, Moonatik said: Charlie as Npc ? So we could go to see her on the throne (new location). She would give us quests until some fight at this same place ? Like @Charlie Dark pointed out, she could very well have access to the same puppets (not shadow ones) Maxwell used to talk to us in OG-DS, so she could very well just show herself to us and face us head-on (of course, it would be really sad for Winona to talk to her sister like she is now...) 34 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: I'd say that Klei is teasing us, since Hide contents Charlie has been seen in many trailers now, in form of jumpscares, we've heard her maniacal laugher twice, again in game trailers as her "human self" What does this all mean!? Yeah, and that teasing makes it clear that it's Charlie that's progressing the Constant through the Return of Them. Now, I don't remember seeing her human self in these newer trailers... If you're talking about "Next of Kin" she is shown as half-human, half-shadow because Winona was abducted during the Voxola factory fire, well before Maxwell was dethroned and A New Reign started. 35 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: some of the examination quotes for gestals and the althar remembers me Nyarlathotep from lovecraft mythos, he trick the humanity sharing knowledge to his own or to create chaos, like sharing atom energic theories so humanity destroys via atomic bombs, and how gestals pass throw us to steal our energy (making us sleep and hungry) like the stelar vampire from another tale. Its clear that survivor are releasing something when they put together all the pieces for celestial altar and doesnt seem friendly. So im expecting a azathoth (that eye in the sanity stat) shape boss with lore like nyarlathotep Also, the mutations on the lunar island give off a really cool eldritch-y vibe, promising power and knowledge in exchange of worship... I wonder what comes next though... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Dark Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Perhaps I got the Mandela effect as well... I remember seeing her in the forge trailer, what lies beyond trailer, as a jumpscare in the salty dog trailer but these are a bit old I guess... In the forge trailer Spoiler In the what lies beyond trailer Spoiler And the most recent one, in the salty dog trailer Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucenix Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said: Perhaps I got the Mandela effect as well... I remember seeing her in the forge trailer, what lies beyond trailer, as a jumpscare in the salty dog trailer but these are a bit old I guess... In the forge trailer Reveal hidden contents In the what lies beyond trailer Reveal hidden contents And the most recent one, in the salty dog trailer Reveal hidden contents She also laughs in the Hook, Line & Inker trailer when the Winter's Feast comes... Spoiler She's here... You She could be more direct... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/118251-speculation-them-metheus-the-moon-and-more/page/2/#findComment-1336232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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