Please do not nerf Wolfgang

[Confused Rock]

fight's less than half as long, yeah, but if you can't even survive 10% the fight before that then the damage won't matter much. speed is the only game changing thing, something wx does better.

[Sinister_Fang]

20 minutes ago, Toros said:

Wilson isn't really the balance point we'd be aiming for with a nerf though as everyone but Wes and maybe Webber are stronger mechanically than Wilson is, and all of the reworks have more impactful perks than Wilson's beard.

I never said Wilson should be the balance point. I just said that Wolfgang's disadvantages are so negligible that he doesn't play much differently then the "default" character.

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Confused Rock said:

Wolfgang is overpowered if all you think about is killing bosses, but don't starve has so much more to it than killing bosses! Combat is just another facet of gameplay the same as farming or gathering is. Maxwell can do so much work with his shadow gangsters and save more resources that would've been spent on tools doing it, same as wolfgang needs less melee weapons and can kill things faster. Wolfgang doesn't kill things that much better, though. When boss fights still last several minutes, for the most part only his 25% movement speed bonus matters. He can kill grumble bees and lavae in melee, but usually you just try to avoid that. Only against small mobs does he really shine, being able to kill regular hounds in two hits. And against small mobs... wendy has the ability to kill a day 100 hound wave starting on day 3 with full health abigail.

Wolfgang is just better at one facet of gameplay, just as any other character is. who cares if it means a worse player can have an easier time against a boss? They could have a much easier time if they weren't alone as well, things are hard enough for them already. And it's the point of a character for one facet of gameplay to be easier! You might think he's overtuned in that regard, but so many other characters are overtuned in solving their niche problems as well. The biggest surprise with wolfgang is that food is broadly so common that he can afford to have triple the hunger drain.  That's still a bigger downside than the ones that most characters seem to lack. having no weaknesses is far from exclusive to him.

Wolfgang is not just a combat character.  He has a movement speed bonus which is pretty OP considering most characters have to clear AG and get lucky, or wait until winter to access a speed boost, and they have to trade their hand item for it.  This means Wolfgang can explore the map quicker, and simply travel around quicker.  (and Wolfgang can use these aswell for even more speed...)

His speed boost really turns his combat into EZ mode, but that isn't his only advantage.  The double damage combined with speed means you're getting the fight done quicker than half the time a different character would.  And if you decide to not dodge?  Say you're bad at dodging, or just decide to trade it out?  He has a massive health pool.  So not only will your attacks be more punishing, making mistakes or just accepting damage is also less punishing.  He wins every way you cut it. 

So far the re-works have been very kind to the characters.  The downsides are more negligible and their powers more prominent, but I don't think Wolfgang will get off so easily.  He gets too much with his massive damage, health, and speed boost that he couldn't possibly get any more without giving something up...

4 hours ago, Confused Rock said:

fight's less than half as long, yeah, but if you can't even survive 10% the fight before that then the damage won't matter much. speed is the only game changing thing, something wx does better.

Speed is not the only game changing thing, double damage means the fight is cut in half.  Half the dodging, healing, armor / weapon durability, and time.  Speed is only part of it.  There is a reason why guides don't say "If you want to kill all bosses pick WX and get a slave Wicker" (oh yeah, requires slave Wicker...)  With his massive health pool you can survive your mistakes too.  Its just too much.

[camelot]

I’ve been always a min-max player so I picked Wolfgang for nearly 95% of my 2000 hours in DST, well before the arrival of Wortox. To be honest, his play style is quite boring and I really feel that it should be changed. So just reduce his stats and/or speed/damage modifier and give me something more interesting/unique to make up for that and I would be happy

[firoborn]

This is only a rough idea but i think some of the problems with food balance and some character balance too can be fixed or at least adressed by adding a punichment to eating more of what the character max hunger is, so for example if a wolfgang player wants to constantly keep it 2x damage multiplier it has to sacrifice healing or gaining sanity trough food, while other characters can start a fight hungry for at least a chance of 4 pierogis or other low hunger high healing foods like suf n turf and similar.

[Moonatik]

There's some things I don't understand. (Will be hard to throw my thoughts correctly in english. There will be no fight, no argue and I'll try to put it all very peacefully).

What's exactly OP in this game ? Wolfgang seems to be regarding all the posts. But what else ? That could be a good question. Pierogis ? Jelly goat ? Hambat, regarding his durability ? Bundle wraps ? Bunnies farm ? Bunnies/spiders farm ? Food in general ? Winona's repairs kit ? And more, probably...

Another question. Is code's game access OP ? Are we supposed to know how much HP does this or this enemy have ? How much damage we deal with weapons ?

How many PC players asks for Wolfgang nerf and at the same time playing with at least 1 mod ? How many players can't play without mods anymore ? Is this OP ?

I saw that mod: You select an area and the character works by himself. How many PC players use it ? How many players said "Wow, awesome, so useful !" ?

But there's that thought: Let the players having fun as they want to. But it doesn't seems that this idea is applied everytime, on every questions.

What's the point ? Do you use Wolfgang ? No ? Do you want to use him ? So why do you want to use him ? For... His strength ?

Let's guess I'm playing with Wilson, under spice jelly goat for bosses and chili spice only for some other little battles. It's not hard to do. I'll deal good damage too. Is it a kind of OP ? Not as Wolgang for sure. So I'm not against some changes on Wolfgang, I'll repeat myself, there must be ways to get his strengh without completly destroy him. Because why we would have to destroy his power if he's the strongest ? 

And more important, why we would destroy him regarding how this game could be seen as destroyed regarding mods possibilities ? We have some proof: Some players are trying to criticize Klei by putting 9 pearls on the crabking. "They reached their limits".

I want to say "Hey, do you know we need almost 1 year in game to do all pearl's quests ? Stop using C_give." (Rain, snow, summer for lure plant, almost every seasons are recquired. I think it's awesome) Who tried without mods ? Many maybe, I'm sure too. ...Am I ?

Poor cheesy bastard OP Wolfgang... You reached your limits. Hope you'll stay safe, and strong !

[Mike23Ua]

Actually.. please DO Nerf Wolfgang...

Then people Will appreciate Bernie & Abigail a little more than they do Currently, and WES would be justified to get a Buff.

(These forums will erupt into pure Madness as soon as Wolfgang, Wigfrid, WX78, Wickerbottom & Wes get their Refreshes anyway..)

But jokes aside this is a Serious Question- Has anyone stopped to think what would happen if they actually DO Nerf the Holy Trinity?? Will this Justify giving Wes more use? Would everyone be closer to being seen as equal?? Would the age of absurdly Overpowered character choices finally come to an End?

I bought Wickerbottoms Hallowed Nights Witch skin- But when I found out people dislike her because she’s some overpowered God Tier Character Who they want to see Quote “Nerfed into the Ground” I stopped playing as Her.

I will go back to playing my new Wickerbottom skin after she gets her inevitable nerfing.. 

[Moonatik]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually.. please DO Nerf Wolfgang...

Then people Will appreciate Bernie & Abigail a little more than they do Currently, and WES would be justified to get a Buff.

(These forums will erupt into pure Madness as soon as Wolfgang, Wigfrid, WX78, Wickerbottom & Wes get their Refreshes anyway..)

But jokes aside this is a Serious Question- Has anyone stopped to think what would happen if they actually DO Nerf the Holy Trinity?? Will this Justify giving Wes more use? Would everyone be closer to being seen as equal?? Would the age of absurdly Overpowered character choices finally come to an End?

I bought Wickerbottoms Hallowed Nights Witch skin- But when I found out people dislike her because she’s some overpowered God Tier Character Who they want to see Quote “Nerfed into the Ground” I stopped playing as Her.

I will go back to playing my new Wickerbottom skin after she gets her inevitable nerfing.. 

NO. You can't ask for a nerf  on someone in order to use someone else. That's absurd. Then just ask for erase Wolfgang. You'll be sure to not be tempting to use him. 

If you can't play Wickerbottom just because people said she's OP, I don't know what to say. At this point, there's more problems than in the game only... 

We need differences, no equality between characters. 

People asks for hard mode, but actually you can change the difficulty by using different characters. 

So balance for Wolfgang is more something to ask for, than simply nerf. 

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, Moonatik said:

NO. You can't ask for a nerf  on someone in order to use someone else. That's absurd. Then just ask for erase Wolfgang. You'll be sure to not be tempting to use him. 

If you can't play Wickerbottom just because people said she's OP, I don't know what to say. At this point, there's more problems than in the game only... 

We need differences, no equality between characters. 

People asks for hard mode, but actually you can change the difficulty by using different characters. 

So balance for Wolfgang is more something to ask for, than simply nerf. 

The thing is Wolfgang is seen as a Top Choice character pick because he is ridiculously OP. 

Using characters as Difficulty Slider in Solo DS Worked in SOLO DS because it was a Single Player game and the choices you made... did not also effect 5 other people playing the game with you.

Why do you think so many people want a Wes Rework? It’s not because we all secretly want him removed from the game to go visit Warbucks in whatever non-existent plain of existence he now resides in.

It is BECAUSE the self-imposed challenges you place upon Yourself when picking to play as Wes should effect YOU and YOU ALONE.. not everyone else who did not select to play as Wes.

Imagine If DST was like Paladins or Smite- Where once a player picks their character choice they become Locked and no one else can play that character- Wolfgang Would always be a Top Tier pick.

And That’s exactly why he should be Nerfed.

Smite/Paladins is always getting patch updates to modify and Tweak it’s characters so that they stay roughly on par with one another & their aren’t any “Top Pick choices”

Yes DST isn’t an MOBA so obviously balancing its characters will be far less Important- BUT the point still stands Top Tier OP Character picks, Or Challenge Characters That effect everyone who’s playing should had been a thing that Died with Single Player DS.

[h1mk]

Reworks in general deserve to be a lot more polarizing, gimmicks should pretty much be removed imo, probably a bit late, I know. I don't mean each character needs to fit into the meta or a very specific play-style, they should at least have their own game-play. Warly and Woodie are good examples of this, Warly I like playing, Woodie is a bit lame, (Wilson replacement, I think he's cool too but he doesn't fit my point, not polarizing) obviously Warly is not an extraordinary character in power, but he has a niche and, if you like playing as Warly, you REALLY do like Warly. Downsides should effect day-by-day game-play, (I know this is a very polarizing example but hear me out) what if Woodie was transformed on a nightly basis, with maybe some mechanics or buffs to balance it out, that would be interesting. Woodie would revolved around hunger management and inventory management, otherwise you would sometimes forget you are even Woodie, rather just a person with an axe buff. I can't be the only person who has forgotten Woodie transformed on a full moon in the first place. I am biased because of liking Warly and his hunger-based game-play being what i find fun, but the point is that the gameplay is (in all honesty) boring right now and could use another cycle of challenge to add some good gameplay. I've seen from a few friends that, even new players don't often bother to try all the characters in-game, I see the reason as everyone is a bit too similar.

[h1mk]

And, to give my personal ideas for what some of the characters, should or should've had their stats based on:

Spoiler

Willow: Sanity and a use for nightmare fuel. maybe a constant drain as well? Maybe not. I don't think weather resistance or weakness is a good idea really, that's a gimmick I don't care about. New Bernie recipe because it still sucks.

Wilson: Jack of all trades, master of none. That's cool because it's something for everyone, and no one at the same time. Stock!

Wes: I'd like him to be a troll/funny/useless character, but support ideas some people have are pretty cool. If anything, I think some sort of reverse-vampiric things would be GREAT. Like telltale heart, but for living people. So, in that sense, Wes is health centered. (also I think his damage debuff is a big reason for people not to play him personally, hunger annoys people too) Another idea for this is gaining health easily, to fund his sorta, blood donation charity stuff. This could even have a lore reason too, Wes is dead crap alone, kind enough to be a good asset to the team, and, maybe instead of dealing less damage, he could take that damage instead, this would even balance him sharing his health. Maybe he would attach an item to a specific player, when they leave w/ an option to let go of that item, said item determines who gets health.

Wickerbottom: Upsides are cool, downsides are gimmicky and light.

anyway, Idk about wickerbottom, maybe a cane?

She has a starting or craftable cane that can be upgraded to a walking cane or lazy explorer,  movement is restricted without it, maybe this could also be effected by clothing. You'd probably have to see this before knowing if it would work out at all.

Wolfgang: other stuff in this thread

                                                   

[X-lem]

On 4/24/2020 at 10:32 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

wes hard

Lies, all lies.

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Moonatik said:

What's exactly OP in this game ?

Meatballs - because they have a very simple recipe and give enough hunger that all dishes which require more exotic ingredients are overshadowed.  As long as you're looking for hunger meatballs are the clear best thing to cook.  There are a lot of other recipes you could cook, but given the simplicity and power of meatballs you have to specifically want to make something else, and deal with its downsides in comparison.

Wolfgang - because 2x damage, natural speed increase, and large health pool.  The main reason he is considered OP is because he dominates movement and combat above all else.  The complaint about Wolfgang is similar to the complaint about meatballs.  With such a simple play style and generally useful stats you really should just pick Wolfgang if you plan to fight anything - not even just bosses...  In other words Wolfgang isn't a choice - not playing Wolfgang is.

MODS - are not the answer to anything.  If a game is no longer being developed a mod may be your only answer, however criticism of the core mechanics of a game which is still receiving development and updates cannot be deflected with "but mods."  Also many people are not able to use mods because they play this game on console ...also klei already in the process of reworking every.single.character...  If now is not the time to voice criticism then when is better?

[bruhmoment23]

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

a game which is still receiving development and updates cannot be deflected with "but mods."

Klei isn't Todd Howard my guy.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, bruhmoment23 said:

Klei isn't Todd Howard my guy.

... I'm not sure what you mean by this, sorry.

[Owlrust]

Personally in my opinion, I don't think Wolfgang needs a nerf; I think he could use an overhaul to spice up his kit a bit though. I personally don't enjoy playing him because, while he (agruably) is the best damage dealer in the game, he's kinda boring to play for me. I love using a character's entire arsenal for many reasons during gameplay, like using Wormwood's bramble traps, Wortox's multi-purpose souls, or Wurt's entire crafting menu ON TOP of their interesting mini quirks like only being able to eat veggies, catch on fire quicker, or being hated by pigmen and bunnymen. Wolfgang is pretty good, "great" even, probably the best at what he does.......but what he IS good at makes it feel like he's a one-trick pony.

[chenais]

@Casm well those mods that it down to much, more than divided by 2.