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MycoLogical

Who will be the next update?

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Toros    1685

It’s funny, because a lot of the Wolfgang ideas listed are things I already put into my rework.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1205119975

I don’t like the idea though of taking control away from the player/“panic attacks” for Wolfgang because losing control is an annoying and unfun mechanic.  Having to waste additional time in combat lifting a dumbbell would also be a tedious and unfun mechanic.  Good reworks streamline and make characters more fun to play.

Having 150 max sanity and 1.3x sanity loss makes quite a difference because at 1.3x loss from everything you need a Tam just to cancel out nighttime drain, Deerclops goes from 400/min drain to over 530/min which is a pretty substantial increase.

Wolfgang is scared of a lot of things, but that’s different than being a coward.  He was a soldier and his inclination seems to be to when something is scary to use his strength to solve the problem.

I do agree that his raw stats could use nerfing which is why 200 hp/150 sanity is a good place for him to be.  I kept his strength scaling because one of the major reasons to play Wolfgang is to make dealing with raid bosses solo or duo easier.  Servers with 6 people don’t need a Wolfgang.

I like the idea of more strength-based utility and there’s a lot of options.  Being able to carry heavy objects faster (75% speed vs 25% speed) and ignoring marble/piggyback slowdown while mighty are what I settled on because without the speed penalty marble becomes the ideal (if expensive) armor but only if Wolf stays mighty so there’s still risk/reward.

@Confused Rock
 

Wilson isn’t actually good at producing beard hair at all, because if you want a full beard for winter you can only get 1 beard hair.  If you wanted meat effigies early without going underground you’d kill beardlings.

Also, forgetting blueprints based on rng would be super annoying and unfun of a downside.

@xDarkSoul18x
 

You are way underestimating Maxwell as a gatherer.  He is amazing at gathering materials with his shadow clones and his team can easily have massive amounts of mineable resources and wood.

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Axelocke    4162

I like the idea of Wolfgang suffering from damage reduction penalties the lower his sanity is! It would pressure Wolfgang to finish off whatever he's fighting quickly, especially if he suffered more sanity drain at night/near monsters. I'd say this makes sense for his character, because I'd imagine Wolfgang would want to get it over with when fighting monsters. Plus it'd cement Wigfrid's role as the more defensive of the two, with Wolfgang being the "sword" of the group, and Wigfrid as the shieldsmaiden she is. 

As for how the damage reduction penalty scales, it might go something like this:

(note: values could always change, this is just an example.)

  • 180 - 200 sanity = 15% dmg reduction
  • 160 - 180 sanity = 10% dmg reduction 
  • 140 - 160 sanity = 5% dmg reduction (armor starts being less effective) 
  • 120 - 140 sanity = 0% dmg reduction (armor is slightly less effective) 
  • 100 - 120 sanity = -10% dmg reduction (armor is moderately less effective)
  • 80 - 100 sanity =  -20% dmg reduction 
  • 60 - 80 sanity = -25% dmg reduction (armor is significantly less effective)
  • 40 - 60 sanity = -30% dmg reduction
  • 20- 40 sanity = -35% dmg reduction (armor is tremendously less effective)

A system like this would promote Wolfgang to finish his fights as soon as he can while becoming exposed if he spends too long healing. Might work for a downside, as it ties in with his cowardice nature. However, I can see this being a bit too brutal, so maybe the reduction armor effectiveness can go.

 

edit: I agree with Wolfgang being able to nullify the movement speed penalties of the piggyback/statues/marble suit/ etc. It makes sense!

 

 

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Microj12    0

I have an idea for wulfgang. Why not make him an elephant? I mean: he is afraid of little critters like bunnies, spiders, and things like that, so he can't fight spiders nor murder bunnies, birds, butterflyes or bees (he cannot kill cute things or he pays with sanity), but still can fight titans and wolves, beefalos and hunts... he also could carry far better big objects, but never dig in gravestones, and would run away if he sees a ghost. Insanity, to represent his fears, could make him run away or drop the things he is wearing like weapon or backpack... 

This would make him still an overpowered character for big fights, being the big damage hitter, and being or lovely viking actress a more courageous counterpart, which would tank better and not be afraid to have bunny blood in her hands nor fight little 8 legged critters

I still think others like WX or Webber need a little rework to keep them up with the rest. I have seen a good idea for webber in a mod, having a way of sleeping in the nest with the spiders, and being able to put hats on them, and WX only needs a way of creating his own gears or an upgrade tab with more unique and complex recipies (a way of creating gears, and a gear and be stings to make him hit better, for example, or gold to upgrade his health) Also, WX could have better interaction with clockworks, since they both are inorganic and hate the living things... Maybe he could repair and ally them in the outside like the ones in the caves?

Anyway, what do you think? Maybe is to hard to do with the actual code, but I think those are some ideas to consider

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Charlie Dark    4071
9 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Maxwel imo needs it the most. The only positive I can think of about him is he’s ok at farming wood and sanity is never really a problem. 

Maybe give him some necromancy/magic similar to Wendy to make his shadow clones a bit more useful.

My friend who was playing Maxwell, well we chopped down.. 65 trees in one day..we got SO many logs.. why wait for bearger while you have friends with benefits?!

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Petit Citron    154

As a Maxwell main, I'm sure totally biased toward his refresh. I once read a guy suggesting a "Tier 2" Codex Umbra, unlocked with some crafting, that would represent his improving comprehension of the book's knowledge, allowing powerful summons and skills.

I don't want him to stay at base with a gatherer role. When I play Maxwell, I want to perform some dark arts.

image.png.de84af6f806eebce36b52e6ecb05d5b9.png

Yeah that sounds... appealing to say the least...

I have to admit though, he's always been viable and less demanding of a rework than say, Webber, who's totally outclassed at the moment.

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zVince    3162
10 hours ago, Confused Rock said:

On why I think wilson is fine: 

  Hide contents

Wilson does one thing for new players that wendy never will be able to- it has them actually learn to fight, which is I'd argue the most important skill for new players since not much, definitely not abigail, can save them once their sanity goes below 30 if they don't know how to dodge the terrorbeak. Him being master of none is the most important thing he can have since it means he has no easy way to avoid any of the harder aspects of the game, forcing the player to learn. The one thing that's far easier with wilson is making a meat effigy without going to the caves, and such a lifeline is definitely appreciated for newer players. 
I think he shouldn't get a rework specifically because there should always be some baseline character with no major upsides or downsides. if wilson was more special then the only character like that would be wes. And I like wes, but "jack of all trades, master of none" is not wes. If I were in charge of reworking wilson for some reason then I'd lean into him being able to do everything decently by allowing him to actually gentleman science his way into doing some things that other characters can, but it might be a bit dumb to have him making worse versions of catapults or summoning the ghost of that duck he poisoned.

 

This definitely works on Don't Starve. Where the progression system is needed. But in Don't Starve Together it's something well outdated, many new players prefer more interesting characters than just a neutral one. Currently the people who play Wilson are most of the time, just like me. They are people who like the character, because in multiplayer not having advantage is a disadvantage.
In comparison, only see how many people playing with Wes. I think it's an interesting character, but it's not worth playing with. Just like there's no reason not to play with Wilson.  In the hundreds of servers I played, there were few Wes.  (So few i haven't remember when i saw one) Is it interesting for the game to see characters in this state? 

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9 hours ago, Axelocke said:

I like the idea of Wolfgang suffering from damage reduction penalties the lower his sanity is! It would pressure Wolfgang to finish off whatever he's fighting quickly, especially if he suffered more sanity drain at night/near monsters. I'd say this makes sense for his character, because I'd imagine Wolfgang would want to get it over with when fighting monsters. Plus it'd cement Wigfrid's role as the more defensive of the two, with Wolfgang being the "sword" of the group, and Wigfrid as the shieldsmaiden she is. 

As for how the damage reduction penalty scales, it might go something like this:

(note: values could always change, this is just an example.)

  • 180 - 200 sanity = 15% dmg reduction
  • 160 - 180 sanity = 10% dmg reduction 
  • 140 - 160 sanity = 5% dmg reduction (armor starts being less effective) 
  • 120 - 140 sanity = 0% dmg reduction (armor is slightly less effective) 
  • 100 - 120 sanity = -10% dmg reduction (armor is moderately less effective)
  • 80 - 100 sanity =  -20% dmg reduction 
  • 60 - 80 sanity = -25% dmg reduction (armor is significantly less effective)
  • 40 - 60 sanity = -30% dmg reduction
  • 20- 40 sanity = -35% dmg reduction (armor is tremendously less effective)

A system like this would promote Wolfgang to finish his fights as soon as he can while becoming exposed if he spends too long healing. Might work for a downside, as it ties in with his cowardice nature. However, I can see this being a bit too brutal, so maybe the reduction armor effectiveness can go.

 

edit: I agree with Wolfgang being able to nullify the movement speed penalties of the piggyback/statues/marble suit/ etc. It makes sense!

 

 

The problem I see with this is that this simply makes him worse at what he's good at, rather than being a real weakness. higher HP and Damage but when he's low on sanity his effective health is more average and his  damage is still pretty good? 
I'm not entirely sure what Wolfgang's downside could be but I don't think it should be combat related, that'd be like if maxwell's downside was that wetness drained his sanity twice as fast.

9 hours ago, Toros said:

@Confused Rock
 

Wilson isn’t actually good at producing beard hair at all, because if you want a full beard for winter you can only get 1 beard hair.  If you wanted meat effigies early without going underground you’d kill beardlings.

Also, forgetting blueprints based on rng would be super annoying and unfun of a downside.

It's an average of 20 beardlings for 4 beard hair. That's kind of annoying!
I meant forgetting blueprints as rng in.. eh, I guess the best comparison would actually be to how things can become diseased. Downsides aren't always fun. Being unable to craft on low sanity is what I think would be better but the negative feedback loop of "I decided to play multiplayer don't starve alone ---> oh no I'm low on sanity and not good at this game! ---> I can't craft a straw roll because I'm too far away from my science machine so I can't get less insane! ----> bad game!

edit: oh and just keep in mind that even if deerclops does 530 sanity/minute instead of 400, wolfgang kills deerclops twice as fast!

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DaWae    40

I think Wilson could use a rework, but only when everyone else gets one, due to obvious protagonist character reasons. Still, I don't know if he needs one, because, put simply, he's the base for every other character. He's the ONLY way a player can experience the game as it was made to be experienced, aside from the beard helping with winter. Yes, I know most people will disagree, however, there's still lots of people who feel like other characters are just easier or harder variations of the same experience, and they want to get the original experience. If you're the kind of person who thinks "Lots of people say I should play Wolfgang or Wickerbottom but it just feels like I'd be making it too easy", or if you don't want to deal with any weird mechanics like Woodie's, then Wilson is the only way to not have that unfairness feeling, even if it's harder or more boring to others.

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Mike23Ua    6413

Wolfgang has quote “A Myriad of Phobias..” this means Fear, Which can be translated to Cowardly.

Just look at his Actual Klei Official Artwork Guys!

Wendy looks bored, Wilson looks unamused/Disgusted.

Wolfgang And Webber look absolutely terrified.

Wolfgang’s fear needs to play into his actual gameplay in his Rework.. because currently- It’s non-existent.

D2F652AA-C679-4A88-B67C-D7FF02808058.jpeg

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hyiltiz    488

Wolfgang is good. Wicker is good. Wigfrig is good. Wes is still OP. We have way too many characters already. Need content update, not character update.

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Toros    1685
7 hours ago, Confused Rock said:

It's an average of 20 beardlings for 4 beard hair. That's kind of annoying!
I meant forgetting blueprints as rng in.. eh, I guess the best comparison would actually be to how things can become diseased. Downsides aren't always fun. Being unable to craft on low sanity is what I think would be better but the negative feedback loop of "I decided to play multiplayer don't starve alone ---> oh no I'm low on sanity and not good at this game! ---> I can't craft a straw roll because I'm too far away from my science machine so I can't get less insane! ----> bad game!

edit: oh and just keep in mind that even if deerclops does 530 sanity/minute instead of 400, wolfgang kills deerclops twice as fast!

20 beardlings for 4 beard hair is a lot faster than Wilson's 2 hours for 9 beard hair if you want to be stuck with a tiny beard with very little insulation during winter.

If you keep a beard for winter you can get 10 beard hair in 4.66 hours from the start of the game.  Wilson is not nor has ever been a good source of beard hair.

 

Under current conditions Wolfgang has 200 sanity and losing 440 per minute from Deerclops gives him just over 27 seconds from full to 0.

With my mod having 150 sanity and losing 530 per minute that only gives him less than 17 seconds from full to 0.

Wilson will last 30 seconds which is about twice as long given the same exposure.

Which means with my mod Wolfgang will lose about the same sanity fighting Deerclops as Wilson even dealing twice the damage.

 

Being unable to craft at low sanity is an exceedingly poorly designed downside.

 

Also, there's a reason that even many default setting purists are fine with turning disease off.   It doesn't add any actual challenge to the game but instead just adds annoying chores that have to be done to not destroy your crops.

@Mike23Ua

I'm not sure if english is your first language, please forgive me for being so easy on you if it is, but there is a fundamental difference between being afraid and being cowardly.

Courage/Cowardice are how someone responds to fear.  Courage is being able to act despite fear, cowardice is being unable to act in the face of fear.

Fearless/Fearful are in respect to the amount of fear someone experiences.  You can't be brave or cowardly in the absence of fear.

We have every reason to believe that Wolfgang is fearful.  We have zero reason to believe that Wolfgang is a coward.

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Ali Bun    328
17 hours ago, Toros said:

It’s funny, because a lot of the Wolfgang ideas listed are things I already put into my rework.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1205119975

I don’t like the idea though of taking control away from the player/“panic attacks” for Wolfgang because losing control is an annoying and unfun mechanic.  Having to waste additional time in combat lifting a dumbbell would also be a tedious and unfun mechanic.  Good reworks streamline and make characters more fun to play.

Having 150 max sanity and 1.3x sanity loss makes quite a difference because at 1.3x loss from everything you need a Tam just to cancel out nighttime drain, Deerclops goes from 400/min drain to over 530/min which is a pretty substantial increase.

Wolfgang is scared of a lot of things, but that’s different than being a coward.  He was a soldier and his inclination seems to be to when something is scary to use his strength to solve the problem.

I do agree that his raw stats could use nerfing which is why 200 hp/150 sanity is a good place for him to be.  I kept his strength scaling because one of the major reasons to play Wolfgang is to make dealing with raid bosses solo or duo easier.  Servers with 6 people don’t need a Wolfgang.

I like the idea of more strength-based utility and there’s a lot of options.  Being able to carry heavy objects faster (75% speed vs 25% speed) and ignoring marble/piggyback slowdown while mighty are what I settled on because without the speed penalty marble becomes the ideal (if expensive) armor but only if Wolf stays mighty so there’s still risk/reward.

@Confused Rock
 

Wilson isn’t actually good at producing beard hair at all, because if you want a full beard for winter you can only get 1 beard hair.  If you wanted meat effigies early without going underground you’d kill beardlings.

Also, forgetting blueprints based on rng would be super annoying and unfun of a downside.

@xDarkSoul18x
 

You are way underestimating Maxwell as a gatherer.  He is amazing at gathering materials with his shadow clones and his team can easily have massive amounts of mineable resources and wood.

YES! EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS, IS YES!! THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT IDEA!

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My money would be on Webber next, then Wolfgang, WX-78, Wickerbottom, Wigfrid, Maxwell, Wes, and finally Wilson.

 

In Webber's case, they'll probably add some more utility to his spider nests. If I had to guess, I'd assume they'll add new types of nests with different kinds of spiders living in them, probably based on what tile set the nest is planted on, allowing players to farm more resources through spider hunting, albeit unreliably due to how abysmal drop rates can be at times and the random spawns of nests in the world. Webber could mitigate this by building new nests and effectively breeding different spider types, with each having its own requirements for upkeep. He'd probably also get access to more silk structures, or even just the ability to treat spider nests as tents so that he can sleep in to weather the elements more effectively.

 

For Wolfgang, they'll probably work the angle of his strength. My idea is to rework his current hunger-based system into a 'Mighty' meter that fills up as he performs various actions, and begins to deplete over time when Wolfgang is idle and rapidly depletes when he is starving. There should also be more of a balance between Mighty and Wimpy forms, such as giving Mighty Wolfgang higher attack damage and mining power at the cost of overall move speed, but still allowing him to move much faster while carrying heavy objects or wearing heavy armor than other characters. Wimpy Wolfgang, on the other hand, could move and collect items faster at the cost of his damage, mining power, and an increased sanity drain, and would be even more encumbered by heavy loads. This would really establish the routine of Wolfgang going out and working first thing in the morning, then scrambling back to base before dark to fill up his belly and get the fire going before anyone else.

 

WX-78 fits in a weird place because his character is based on the idea of upgrading himself, but there isn't really a full system in place for that; he just eats gears for stats. So with that in mind, my suggestion is reworking the current system so that instead of just eating gears to up his stats, WX now has an internal storage compartment with several item slots, and placing items in this space can have various effects. Gears for example could up WX's movement and mining speed based on the number of gears stored, while a thermal stone would allow WX to remain warm or cool for much longer. As a downside, WX can no longer simply right-click on food items to immediately gain their effects. Instead, they must be placed into one of the compartment slots, where they will decay and afford their benefits over time before turning into waste material, such as rot or ash. This means that foods that spoil quickly don't do as much for WX, but foods that last long periods of time such as jerky can give him constant regen that can last for days, and can even be shared with other players if removed before they spoil. It also means that WX can now 'eat' any food any of the other characters can without suffering health damage, but items with negative sanity effects still apply to him. Furthermore, leaving rot or ash in the storage compartment will cause him to lose sanity until removed, and 'wet' items like stews or melting ice will rapidly increase WX's wetness meter and damage him like rain, lowering their effectiveness, but will also cool him down.

Complicated? Yes, but WX is a bit of a fan favorite among a lot of people, myself included, so he deserves a solid and comprehensive rework.

 

Wickerbottom is a tough one to consider, but I imagine that her, Wilson and Wagstaff are going to have reworks that tie into one another, and revolve around their relationship with the knowledge of what's in the Science and Magic tabs. Wicker will probably be revamped into the resident magic expert with more nuanced spellbooks and being able to craft magic items without the need of a Presti-hat-inator or Shadow Manipulator, but losing her innate knowledge of all 1st tier recipes in exchange, giving that perk to Wilson so he can have a suitable leg-up as the default character.

Yes, it will probably piss a lot of people off that Wicker no longer knows everything at the start, but many people have argued that Wicker is too strong and her presence makes the game less challenging, so focusing her down the magic side of things would foster more interesting group dynamics in my mind, and give Wilson an opportunity to come into his own as the default character that everyone should consider picking. As for Wagstaff? Giving him access to everything in the Science tab should be fine, but I'd be hesitant to give him anything outside that tab because, even with his vision and stomach problems, making him into a walking alchemy engine would be too much.

 

Wigfrid is another hard sell, mainly because she's already pretty solid as is. So, my suggestion is to play on the fact that she's a serious method actor that may or may not have a case of dissociative identity disorder and give her several 'costume' items that she can craft and wear, including her current helmet, which change her personality and how her character works. For instance, maybe she can craft a laurel using gold and some flowers. While the laurel offers very little protection, it gives a large amount of sanity regen to whoever wears it, and while Wigfrid is wearing it, animals will not run away from her, she regains sanity from planting trees and crops, and nearby plants will grow faster. BUT! Wigfrid will refuse to eat meat so long as she's wearing the laurel, becoming a vegetarian like Wurt, her damage will be reduced, and she will suffer similar sanity penalties to Wormwood when plants are harmed around her.

Really, the sky is the limit with this, as there are plenty of hats that Wigfrid could make costume variants of and all manner of mechanics that could be tied to each one, but I'd add one caveat; when not 'in character', Wigfrid loses all of her perks, including her weird vampiric aura, and she constantly loses sanity until she manages to put another costume on.

 

The obvious plan of action with Maxwell is to fix the AI of his shadow clones and give them more things to do, but really what we all want is for more stuff from the Codex Umbra in general. Shadow tools, shadow beasts, shadow structures, and maybe even a little temporary protection from Charlie. Maxwell is good, we just want him to be better.

 

And finally, Wes. I'm torn between tge idea of expanding his balloonomancy into a sort of polar opposite of Maxwell's umbramancy, or giving him the ability to pantomime the use of tools and actually make it work. Either would be a worthy addition, but because of Klei's recent April Fool's prank, I suppose I'll go with the former.

Wes could make dummy balloons that draw aggro and deal damage just like the ones he has now, but he could also make balloon tools and weapons. While incredibly slow and obnoxious to mine with, and dealing almost no damage to regular mobs, using them could give nearby players sanity regen, and they would deal increased damage to shadow monsters, allowing Wes to be a dedicated shadow-killer, taking advantage of the sanity draining properties of his balloonomancy to farm nightmare fuel. And while Wes's personal challenge of not starving to death or dying should be maintained, I feel a necessary change to stop people from complaining about his shortcomings is to reduce the rate at which Wes takes damage from things like starvation, and to have it so his death can't negatively affect the sanity of other players.

 

And those are all my predictions/suggestions for the Don't Starve Together reworks, minus Winona, Wortox, Wurt, and all the DLC characters(except Wagstaff). Hopefully it wasn't too much of a fanciful rant for you all, but I've had quite a few of these ideas for a while, and I like to share them in the hopes some of them catch on and get considered by the good folks at Klei.

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