Game breaking Update

[charger265]

Pretty frustrated with the most recent update with no option to rollback.
Yes i use mods and like most other games within steam you have the ability to stay on a fixed working version on the game and only update when you chose. Klei and ONI don't offer this basic feature? Why?

All this will basically do is make me turn this game off and not play it again.. 200 hours in and just scratching the surface...

Does anyone one have an option to rollback or reinstall an older version of the game?

[FutureJohny]

1 hour ago, charger265 said:

Pretty frustrated with the most recent update with no option to rollback.
Yes i use mods and like most other games within steam you have the ability to stay on a fixed working version on the game and only update when you chose. Klei and ONI don't offer this basic feature? Why?

All this will basically do is make me turn this game off and not play it again.. 200 hours in and just scratching the surface...

Does anyone one have an option to rollback or reinstall an older version of the game?

I hate this too. This just nature of early access games. Even after release apparently. My Kerbal save is stuck on latest 1.3 from 2017 to keep my mods working. But the devs let me just switch the game to lower version no problem. I would love to see such feature in ONI.

Now I am forced to backup every version manually before updating. If it breaks something and debug can't fix it, then I can play in Steam offline mode until mod reverting that gets made.

Automation on vents was was luckily easily fixed in debug. 

[watermelen671]

2 hours ago, charger265 said:

Yes i use mods and like most other games within steam you have the ability to stay on a fixed working version on the game and only update when you chose. Klei and ONI don't offer this basic feature? 

Wait what? This is the "working version" of the game. The Automation Pack was in testing for 2 weeks before you got it, which is basically exactly what you were asking for. It doesn't make sense to allow players to continue to play an outdated build, and it sounds like you're asking for the devs to have an "opt-in" feature for every patch that they make. 

I don't even get what you mean by "having the ability to update when you chose"...last time I checked if an update is pushed to Steam you're forced to update to even play the game.

If mods aren't working then give the mod creators some time to get around to updating.

45 minutes ago, FutureJohny said:

I hate this too. This just nature of early access games.

ONI is no longer in EA, what are you even talking about? The game's complete, any additional content is basically like expansion packs.

[Meltdown]

While topic title is misleading, I think that OP has a point. Being able to roll back updates and play older versions of the game is not an unreasonable request. Since updates usually break mods, such option is essential for a mod-friendly game. 

9 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

It doesn't make sense to allow players to continue to play an outdated build

9 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

If mods aren't working then give the mod creators some time to get around to updating.

The thing is, giving time to mod creators while playing an outdated, but mod-compatible build sounds like a nice option. I don't understand how it could be a worse solution (from player's perspective) rather than simply not playing the game after, potentially, every update (and being frustruated about it).

9 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

it sounds like you're asking for the devs to have an "opt-in" feature for every patch that they make

In context of this topic, it is more of a side effect of a rollback feature, rather than main intent behind requesting it. However, it may also save a couple of players from posting negative steam reviews and bringing their frustruations to forums. Every tweak or addition to the game have a chance to make several players unhappy with results, and some times "opt-ins" make a suitable frustruation-management tool.

9 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

I don't even get what you mean by "having the ability to update when you chose"

IDK how game devs handle it in general, but, for example, Stellaris has older versions accessible as "Betas". In addition to my previous point: it allows to rollback as far as the latest update before the last major (and very controvertial) overhaul, which happened at the end of the 2018.

[Glassyfo]

Waiting for mods to be updated was an option.

[FutureJohny]

11 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

Wait what? This is the "working version" of the game. The Automation Pack was in testing for 2 weeks before you got it, which is basically exactly what you were asking for. It doesn't make sense to allow players to continue to play an outdated build, and it sounds like you're asking for the devs to have an "opt-in" feature for every patch that they make. 

I don't even get what you mean by "having the ability to update when you chose"...last time I checked if an update is pushed to Steam you're forced to update to even play the game.

If mods aren't working then give the mod creators some time to get around to updating.

ONI is no longer in EA, what are you even talking about? The game's complete, any additional content is basically like expansion packs.

I am asking more for opt-out using betas feature of steam. Two weeks or two moths means nothing, since no sane mod author will update their mods to ever changing preview version.

I never said it was in EA, but EA release cycle still seemingly continues, just on slower schedule.

Stellaris essentially reworked main gameplay loop, from the ground up. It is basically Stellaris 2 now. But you can still play that version just using steam betas without need to backup the game yourself.

[SharraShimada]

2 hours ago, bleeter6 said:

Waiting for mods to be updated was an option.

Active modders noticed the beta which lasted 2 weeks. They had time to make updates, and release it with final launch of the patch. 

If KLEI would wait for every modder out there to come out of his cozy bed, we would never get an update again. Outdated mods are a problem with nearly every game. And if the author is already gone, the mod will never get an update. Thats how the system works. Mods are always used at your own risk. And if it breaks your current save, its sad, but inevitable, .

[Meltdown]

3 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

If KLEI would wait for every modder out there to come out of his cozy bed, we would never get an update again

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far expressed an expectation of devs to "wait" for moders or anybody/anything else. Nobody proposed anything that could affect the development and release of updates.

I can't really understand the negative towards the idea of outdated builds being available. What are the downsides of just having a previous version available for download, really?

[SharraShimada]

Look at my quote, and you see someone mentioned wating (or did i misintepreted something there?)

And i do understand why they dont support older versions. If one does, people who doent have a clue complain about problems fixed 2 years ago, because they´ve locked down the updata sometime in the past. 

Thats simply nothing a developer wants, because it leads to negative comments, and then to lower sales. 

In general, with big projects, everything you do pisses someone off. Thats a rule. And you cant avoid it at all. The only thing you can do is, to find out what displeases the leas amount of your users. For ONI its the poeple plaing modded saves. 

[Ambaire]

18 hours ago, watermelen671 said:

The Automation Pack was in testing for 2 weeks before you got it, which is basically exactly what you were asking for. It doesn't make sense to allow players to continue to play an outdated build, and it sounds like you're asking for the devs to have an "opt-in" feature for every patch that they make. 

Have you ever played Empyrion, Factorio, Kerbal Space Program, RimWorld, or Space Engineers? All 5 of those games allow players to revert to previous major versions at will (whether they prefer the mods from that version or the gameplay or whatever). 3 of those games are out of early access, and KSP was officially released almost 5 years ago.

I see no real reason why Klei could not do the same for ONI. Sometimes I wish I could revert to the last patch in the Ranching update before the next major update was released.

49 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

And i do understand why they dont support older versions. If one does, people who doent have a clue complain about problems fixed 2 years ago, because they´ve locked down the updata sometime in the past. 

Supporting an older version, and allowing players to access/play older versions, are two separate things. See above.

[KittenIsAGeek]

6 hours ago, FutureJohny said:

I am asking more for opt-out using betas feature of steam.

For ONI, you have to specifically tell it that you want to use the beta.  Otherwise, you only get the new stuff when they push the current development branch into the live branch.  So.. um.. you're already opted out from the betas. By default.

[Ambaire]

8 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

For ONI, you have to specifically tell it that you want to use the beta.  Otherwise, you only get the new stuff when they push the current development branch into the live branch.  So.. um.. you're already opted out from the betas. By default.

This is the 'betas' tab of Kerbal Space Program. A game that officially released 5 years ago. Gee, sure seems like devs can do more with it than just testing. Look at all those old major versions one can choose.

Or the 'Betas' tab of Factorio (a game still in early access, but with a very prolific modding community). That version list goes back almost 4 years.

See the post above yours and Meltdown's post in this thread for more.

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 minute ago, Ambaire said:

See the post above yours and Meltdown's post in this thread for more.

That's great for the Kerbal Space Program.. .

 

However, I was specifically replying to FutureJohnny's reply to the OP and was simply clarifying that you have to choose, intentionally, to get beta content and that, at least for ONI, you're opted out of the betas by default.

I will try to be more clear in future posts.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Ambaire]

Ah, sorry.

I posted a thread in the Suggestion forum which I feel would solve this nicely.

 

[Meltdown]

1 hour ago, SharraShimada said:

Look at my quote, and you see someone mentioned wating (or did i misintepreted something there?)

Well, if they indeed meant delaying the release until mods are updated, then my bad, I guess.

1 hour ago, SharraShimada said:

And i do understand why they dont support older versions.

Did devs actually said that they are not planning to do that? There is not much to argue about if there is an official statement about older versions.

[SharraShimada]

Just now, Meltdown said:

Did devs actually said that they are not planning to do that? There is not much to argue about if there is an official statement about older versions.

Not that i can recall anything related to this topic. But also they did not mentioned they plan to do so either. If they wanted to do so, the´ve already done so i guess. 

[watermelen671]

53 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

I see no real reason why Klei could not do the same for ONI. Sometimes I wish I could revert to the last patch in the Ranching update before the next major update was released.

Think of it like this: you're on Windows 95, and Microsoft makes you upgrade to Windows Vista or whatever because they no longer support 95 and there's a massive security flaw in that OS. Your computer can handle it, all it takes is adjustment on your part.

Now put it into context with ONI and bugs and/or performance enhancements.

58 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

Sometimes I wish I could revert to the last patch in the Ranching update before the next major update was released.

You do realize there have been 296 patches to this game? What's the cutoff point? Which upgrade do they no longer allow you to rollback to?

Take a look at pictures of how ONI used to look when it first dropped into Alpha compared to how it is now. There have been so many structural overhauls to that it doesn't really make sense to allow players to go back to them. And if they decide to allow players to go back to whatever build they want, say what you will it is them supporting previous versions. 

If you are really that desperate to play old ONI builds, there are plenty of questionably legal ways to obtain it. 

Regardless as it stands Klei doesn't do it, and they never have really. Heck, look at DST. There are plenty of things that they completely changed that I wish I could go back and have it back to the way it was. But I have since adapted to it and learned new ways to play.

2 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

Did devs actually said that they are not planning to do that? There is not much to argue about if there is an official statement about older versions.

1 minute ago, SharraShimada said:

Not that i can recall anything related to this topic. But also they did not mentioned they plan to do so either. If they wanted to do so, the´ve already done so i guess. 

IIRC they once said WAY back in the day that the oldest version that they'd support was the Agricultural Upgrade, and in fact I think it was possible to "roll back" to previous versions back in those days. It was called the "archive_branch", and I think it was removed because ONI left Alpha and went into Early Access.

I can't seem to find exactly where it was, probably because the post got archived and for some reason you can't search archived posts.

[Ambaire]

16 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

There have been so many structural overhauls to that it doesn't really make sense to allow players to go back to them.

Nostalgia. Also, you did note the other games I mentioned that allow this, right?

[Meltdown]

18 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

I can't seem to find exactly where it was, probably because the post got archived and for some reason you can't search archived posts.

That's sad. I hope there would be some kind of reaction to Ambaire's post in suggestions.

18 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Think of it like this: you're on Windows 95, and Microsoft makes you upgrade to Windows Vista or whatever because they no longer support 95 and there's a massive security flaw in that OS.

It's an odd analogy, since IRL Microsoft does not make you upgrade your OS.

[SharraShimada]

Just now, Meltdown said:

It's an odd analogy, since IRL Microsoft does not make you upgrade your OS.

Yes they do. You cant use that old windows versions with newer software. You cant even patch a new install anymore, because the update servers are gone. You´d have to archived everything all by yourself. And thats what you could have done with ONI too. There was a thread about how to make a backup and make it run.

[Meltdown]

15 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

You cant use that old windows versions with newer software.

But if you have old windows, it wouldn't upgrade itself to the newer version. The difference is, you don't have to backup anything. In fact it's a completly opposite situation - Microsoft does not support older versions but it's up to you to grab a new one. If you have Windows XP you may stay on it as much as you like.

Furthermore, if you have a software that is not compatible with newer Windows versions (and you don't expect any updates in future) you would continue to use it just fine (I hope there is no need to argue that here software is a good analogy for a mod).

So, the situaltion with OS versions and software is radically different from the situation with game updates and mods, and for a good number of reasons. Thats why trying to use it as analogy is, in my optinion, at least odd.

[watermelen671]

11 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

Nostalgia. Also, you did note the other games I mentioned that allow this, right?

Yes, just because other games do it doesn't mean Klei is also obligated to do it as well.

ONI isn't Factorio, Empyrion, Kerbal Space Program, RimWorld, or Space Engineers. Just because a handful of games in the same genre does one thing, doesn't mean EVERY game should also do that thing. 

Not every game allows you to download and play archived versions, heck, most games don't.

14 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

It's an odd analogy, since IRL Microsoft does not make you upgrade your OS.

3 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

But if you have old windows, it wouldn't upgrade itself to the newer version. The difference is, you don't have to backup anything. In fact it's a completly opposite situation - Microsoft does not support older versions but it's up to you to grab a new one. If you have Windows XP you may stay on it as much as you like.

Furthermore, if you have a software that is not compatible with newer Windows versions (and you don't expect any updates in future) you would continue to use it just fine (I hope there is no need to argue that here software is a good analogy for a mod).

So, the situaltion with OS versions and software is radically different from the situation with game updates and mods, and for a good number of reasons. Thats why trying to use it as analogy is, in my optinion, at least odd.

Does nobody remember when Microsoft stealth-forced everybody running Windows 7 to upgrade to Windows 10? I didn't want to be outright obvious in that comparison, but I at least hoped some people would've made the link. 

Heck, Microsoft is still doing forced updates!

At least with ONI you get new and actually useful content instead of having all of your stuff deleted and computer bricked.

[SharraShimada]

7 minutes ago, Meltdown said:

But if you have old windows, it wouldn't upgrade itself to the newer version.

Hold my food germ soda.

If you had Win7 or Win8 a few years ago, you got Win10 upgrade for free. Even those who did not wanted it so badly, got it by accident, because MS switched the meaning of the X, calling the update, while everyone thought it would cancel it.

[Ambaire]

5 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

At least with ONI you get new and actually useful content instead of having all of your stuff deleted and computer bricked.

Except for the people who had automation wires running over their pipe vents, unaware that all pipe vents would be forcibly changed to the automation type.

[Meltdown]

13 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

If you had Win7 or Win8

But before Win10, or for users of older Windows versions that wasn't the case? And you still could refuse to update.

13 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

Even those who did not wanted it so badly, got it by accident, because MS switched the meaning of the X, calling the update, while everyone thought it would cancel it.

18 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

stealth-forced everybody running Windows 7 to upgrade to Windows 10?

Somehow ended up being lucky enought to evade all those missfortunes almost effortlessly. Moved to Win10 only recenlty, by my own will.

18 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Heck, Microsoft is still doing forced updates!

It's known that updates on Windows 10 is a whole another story compared to previous versions. And some people are angry about that, so it does not really show this practice as a good one. Well, if the limit the scope of analogy to Microsofts policy for Windows 10 updates, than it becomes way more accurate.

And, I think, all that Windows discussion it is getting a bit off topic.