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-Animaster-

The Game is Way Too Easy for More Than 3 Players

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-Animaster-    147

I think the game is way too easy if there are more than 3 players on the server. 

It's really challenging for 1 player, it's most balanced for 2 players, it's okay for 3 players but it's getting way too easy if there are 4 players and more on the server. I think the game should encourage players' cooperation so they would have to make groups when fighting stronger mobs.

Do you think the game difficulty should scale based on the player's count? Do you think server admins should be allowed to increase the difficulty or make the difficulty auto-scalable? What other ideas do you have to make the game more difficult for multiple players?

 

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CameoAppearance    1,539

I'd welcome a mod that scales difficulty based on the number of players, but if you think the game is consistently too easy with 3 or 4 players, bosses included, then clearly you haven't had my experiences fighting the Bee Queen/Toadstool/Fuelweaver with friends.

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Mike23Ua    3,003

I already covered this early this morning dude.

I suggested that the fix is to steal a feature from Gearbox Softwares BORDERLANDS game- Scaling the world content and Difficulty based on how many players are in the Session.

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Thalkas    1,115

Can sounds funny, but I think game is enough easy for one player too. :D But if you playing with newbies or noobs, trust me game can be so f*** hard and messy!

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Yeah I think the difficulty scales with player competence more than number lol. I love playing with my friends but I think it’s 300x easier playing solo than grouping with 5 of them. 
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t borderlands essentially just add more health for more players to “scale difficulty”? I don’t think spongier enemies are a solution. It would be cool if every here and there they include fights, puzzles, interactions, etc. that require multiple people. I’m thinking of Little Big Planet for instance where in the levels that were made for the base game they include co op only puzzles that are impossible to do solo. Gating things like that could be problematic in some people’s eyes though.

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Sinister_Fang    8,754
2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I suggested that the fix is to steal a feature from Gearbox Softwares BORDERLANDS game- Scaling the world content and Difficulty based on how many players are in the Session.

You make it sound like they invented scaling difficulty based on player count.

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csc_unit    1,246
2 hours ago, Thalkas said:

messy

Ho yess.

I'm used to playing alone. Clean kiting patterns, Nothing gets destroyed or burned. It takes longer often, but the whole thing is way more predictable. 

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Mike23Ua    3,003
18 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

You make it sound like they invented scaling difficulty based on player count.

Nah I think that Honor dates back to about 20 to 30 years ago with Diablo & Baldurs Gate on ancient dinosaur PC’s.

(the games borderlands openly admitted that they took all their inspiration from by the way..)

But Borderlands was the first to do it in a Modern day Open world game/ Shooter, Then games like Tom Clancy’s The Division followed up on it. So yeah I guess so maybe??

But that’s not the point- the Point is that if I’m playing DST alone Solo, I shouldn’t have to fight Firefly with Health programmed for 4-6 players.

And then flip that the other way around- if I’m playing Solo and then 5 other players randomly join it should scale the world up.

a perfect example is that on Solo hound waves should cap at about 5 or 6 chasing you with only 1 or 2 of them being element type. But when 6 players are there 15-20 with the majority of them being Ice or Fire hounds.

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Seero    836
2 hours ago, Thalkas said:

Can sounds funny, but I think game is enough easy for one player too. :D But if you playing with newbies or noobs, trust me game can be so f*** hard and messy!

Why does everyone look at the difficulty of a game without factoring in skill?

When will people understand that this game's true difficulty lies with lack of knowledge of the game?

The world will probably never know

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Shosuko    940
2 hours ago, Kelloggs Dogfry said:

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t borderlands essentially just add more health for more players to “scale difficulty”? I don’t think spongier enemies are a solution. It would be cool if every here and there they include fights, puzzles, interactions, etc. that require multiple people. I’m thinking of Little Big Planet for instance where in the levels that were made for the base game they include co op only puzzles that are impossible to do solo. Gating things like that could be problematic in some people’s eyes though.

Well keep in mind that most mobs are currently 2x health from DS, not to mention the megaboss health pools.  So in effect the scaling UP on health to account for more players is already in the game, but it doesn't scale down.  A solo player has to invest a lot more time into fighting than a group needs to.  I played with a group of friends a few weeks ago and it was the first time I'd seen dfly's stun.  I had forgotten about it, because unless you're playing Wolfgang you're not going to stun her solo...  Dfly takes 2 days to fight.  Its not even that challenging, just takes a lot of time...

Its even worse when I'm playing wes lol

And no - they should absolutely NOT add in multiplayer required events into the game...  I've never built a lazy deserter because it requires multiple people to use it.  Sucks that you're forced to deal with the boss even though the rewards for fighting it are completely useless...  Its not even optional like all the other bosses are...

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00petar00    137

I'd be really happy if mob health scaled based on players but fighting would get boring if all the mobs have insane amounts of health, who'd even want to kill them when there's nothing special to them? That is just one of the issues, there are others like how'd you scale health considering there may be many new players on the server?

There are bosses like Ancient Guardian or Klaus that have big amounts of health and are easy to kite once you know how, there's a reason why they have that much health, it makes it harder to kill and even if people may find it boring, you still need to use your time and that basically makes them difficult, mobs that wear out your resources and time have their value and point, its just boring.

I mostly play Wickerbottom because i dislike how some bosses work, why would i need  to play Wolfgang and use a full panflute and countless other resources to kill bee queen once?Or use any other character and require much more resources. I don't like how big bosses had so much more health when i mostly kill them solo.

Even though Wickerbottom is my main, i'd really enjoy if i could pick any other character and kill bee queen in  first 20 days with no resources outside of tentacles that don't even die and are there for multiple kills, you can easily rush it on day 5-10, i think day 10-11 for wolfgang but you'd use the panflute. Its just not enjoyable because of the bees she spawns, its not made to be done solo.

I really enjoy how Dragonfly was made kitable but i dislike bosses that klei makes that you aren't supposed to solo like bee queen or fuelweaver. You know how before fuelweaver was released they were hyping it up that it was a team boss and people found ways to kill him solo on the first day of the release but most of these tricks they use are annoying and aren't supposed to be required or even supposed to work. You can't use pillars anymore to not get trapped as klei changed that.

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Sinister_Fang    8,754
2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But that’s not the point- the Point is that if I’m playing DST alone Solo, I shouldn’t have to fight Firefly with Health programmed for 4-6 players.

Yeah, sorry for the nitpicking. I do agree with DST needing a scaling mechanic though. It's something I've been wanting for a very long time.

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00petar00    137
1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Well keep in mind that most mobs are currently 2x health from DS, not to mention the megaboss health pools.  So in effect the scaling UP on health to account for more players is already in the game, but it doesn't scale down.  A solo player has to invest a lot more time into fighting than a group needs to.  I played with a group of friends a few weeks ago and it was the first time I'd seen dfly's stun.  I had forgotten about it, because unless you're playing Wolfgang you're not going to stun her solo...  Dfly takes 2 days to fight.  Its not even that challenging, just takes a lot of time...

Its even worse when I'm playing wes lol

And no - they should absolutely NOT add in multiplayer required events into the game...  I've never built a lazy deserter because it requires multiple people to use it.  Sucks that you're forced to deal with the boss even though the rewards for fighting it are completely useless...  Its not even optional like all the other bosses are...

I completely agree, we don't want to see items locked behind teamplay.I understand that this is DST (Don't Starve Together) but why would i ever want to get Lazy Deserter when i play solo? that's the whole boss i am missing out on. 1/5th of the time i played DST it was with players, this may not be how other players do it but i enjoy the first 100 days of gathering resources and killing bosses the most, i don't enjoy building big bases and game gets a little boring for me once i have so much resources, the more players i play with the faster we reach that point.

Any other bosses that only drop items or buildings that require 2 players to be used or efficient or any other multiplayer events shouldn't be in the game, especially on a boss who actually is going to annoy you whole summer if you don't deal with him.. 

Imagine if Deerclops dropped some item or building that required 2 players to be used, any boss that actually will spawn near player or require player interaction shouldn't ever be locked behind team play which sadly Antlion is.

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Mike23Ua    3,003

See I don’t know how people play DST on PC but I can tell you how they play it on Xbox, first of all Worlds can only be joined for as long as the player hosting them feels like playing the game.. so about an average of 20-30 in game days is an Average play time for Xbox before the host quits the game closing down the server until they log back online again.

There aren’t any 24/7 Dedicated Servers that always run all the time.

Second: Players join worlds that you host and leave open without a password, play for awhile or attempt to grief all your hard work, it is hard to tell who is actually there to play and who is just there to grief- you could have someone be a fully cooperating team member up until say Deerclops is killed, or the Clestial Orb is found and then they leave the game with those items in their inventory.

Unfortunately there’s no way to tell that they’ve grieved in this manor until it’s too late to roll your world back far enough to undo their evil deeds.

(please Klei make all important non-replaceable items Renewable OR make them drop from other players inventories upon leaving game)

However the most common thing you’ll get on an average Xbox session is completely random people joining, playing for a little bit and then dying and leaving or not dying at all but still eventually leaving due to the amount of time they’ve got to play.

Which is why Borderlands style content scaling would be great for DST, for anyone who hasn’t played Borderlands- the more players in the game the tougher the enemies got, the more damage they dealt and the meaner versions of enemies with unique attack abilities (such as Badass Motha Shock Skag) would spawn Replacing the common Skag.

The best example I can give in that for DST would be a wave of 3 normal hellhounds attacking you when playing solo, compared to a wave of 20 hellhounds attacking you if 4 to 6 players are in the game that are all only Red hound or Blue Hound.

Borderlands didn’t just simply scale health and damage.. that’s why I specifically choose Borderlands as the reference- (one because admittedly it is my favorite game of all time ever created) But mostly because of how it spawned more enemies and tougher variations of said enemies with unique abilities based on how many players were playing.

It is not a 100% flawless system though- because sometimes when bosses became too harder players would leave so it scaled the content back down to be more manageable until the boss or whatever was killed and then they would rejoin the game.

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00petar00    137
7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

See I don’t know how people play DST on PC but I can tell you how they play it on Xbox, first of all Worlds can only be joined for as long as the player hosting them feels like playing the game.. so about an average of 20-30 in game days is an Average play time for Xbox before the host quits the game closing down the server until they log back online again.

There aren’t any 24/7 Dedicated Servers that always run all the time.

Second: Players join worlds that you host and leave open without a password, play for awhile or attempt to grief all your hard work, it is hard to tell who is actually there to play and who is just there to grief- you could have someone be a fully cooperating team member up until say Deerclops is killed, or the Clestial Orb is found and then they leave the game with those items in their inventory.

Unfortunately there’s no way to tell that they’ve grieved in this manor until it’s too late to roll your world back far enough to undo their evil deeds.

(please Klei make all important non-replaceable items Renewable OR make them drop from other players inventories upon leaving game)

That can't be fixed, there will always be griefers and you shouldn't play on servers without a password unless you are planning to play for 20-30 days and just quit and not come back.

There is no point in making all of the non renewable resources renewable, the idea is that game is made so that you need to manage resources.

The idea is, you should use the forums or find people in the game you want to play with or you think are good and just host your own server decide on when you'll play and put a password, that way you'll play with people who know how to play the game and won't grief you.

 

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Mike23Ua    3,003
10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That can't be fixed, there will always be griefers and you shouldn't play on servers without a password unless you are planning to play for 20-30 days and just quit and not come back.

There is no point in making all of the non renewable resources renewable, the idea is that game is made so that you need to manage resources.

The idea is, you should use the forums or find people in the game you want to play with or you think are good and just host your own server decide on when you'll play and put a password, that way you'll play with people who know how to play the game and won't grief you.

 

Why not?? Surely they can code the game to recognize that a player has taken the Celestial Orb and left the server with it. The game would then spawn a new Suspicious Boulder during the next Meteor shower event so that a New Orb can exist.

the game would still function in all the same ways.. there can still only be one Celestial Orb on the map at any given time- it just prevents this style of  grieving a bit more and makes public sessions less of hassle.

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Sunset Skye    7,245
37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

it is hard to tell who is actually there to play and who is just there to grief- you could have someone be a fully cooperating team member up until say Deerclops is killed, or the Clestial Orb is found and then they leave the game with those items in their inventory.

Unfortunately there’s no way to tell that they’ve grieved in this manor until it’s too late to roll your world back far enough to undo their evil deeds.

(please Klei make all important non-replaceable items Renewable OR make them drop from other players inventories upon leaving game)

 

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why not?? Surely they can code the game would still function in all the same ways.. there can still only be one Celestial Orb on the map at any given time- it just prevents this style of  grieving a bit more and makes public sessions less of hassle.

...why do you keep using the celestial orb as an example? Items that the game considers irreplaceable will be dropped from a player's inventory if they leave the game while holding one. The celestial orb is an irreplaceable item. The system you described is already in place and applies to the item you're talking about.

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Owlrus98    1,022

People forget that a large majority of the player base is (arguably) very inexperienced and cannot survive through even their first winter. For an experienced player, having a team of hungry/dying/resource-taking newer players is challenge enough (if you aren't going "out of your way" to find a group on social media); as for actually well-coordinated teams there is little that can be done, mainly as there is no way to systematically differentiate between the two types of players in game without severely punishing the other. There will always be that team of 4 wolfgangs and 1 warly that dominates the challenges in game with access to his spices, or a wickerbottom with her applied horticulture to farm resources easier and faster. In short, people can be a disadvantage in themselves regardless of number.

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Shosuko    940
2 hours ago, metallichydra said:

lazy deserter can be used to lower your sanity

Sure, but lowering sanity isn't exactly hard...  and a bee queen crown can't reverse it so it is only a 1 way trip.  Flower field and some green caps are probably better.

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Mike23Ua    3,003
39 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

 

...why do you keep using the celestial orb as an example? Items that the game considers irreplaceable will be dropped from a player's inventory if they leave the game while holding one. The celestial orb is an irreplaceable item. The system you described is already in place and applies to the item you're talking about.

It’s only used as a poorly thought up example, however- let me repeat why such a feature is important.

The Console versions of DST are hosted by a host player- and that world and ALL of the content in that world only belongs to the host player, It’s not like say- you can join my game and gather resources taking them back into your own world, everything you do while playing in my session only effects ME and MY session.

Worlds on Xbox only exist for as long as the host remains playing- when they leave the game the server is shutdown, there aren’t any 24/7 servers that run all the time.

Therefore- by default the game should make all players who aren’t the actual host drop all their inventory items upon leaving the world, ESPECIALLY Important stuff such as Purple Gems, Fishing Rod Advert Blueprints, Deerclops eyes, Festive Decorations, Etc..

Because- a player who joins the world only to help kill Deerclops and then snag up his loot and leave the game never to be seen again after intentionally waiting the 5 day maximum Rollback limit is the exact kind of thing that I would rather avoid. But that doesn’t mean that I should always have to PW lock my server to avoid the Xbox Grief Players.

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CameoAppearance    1,539
8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Therefore- by default the game should make all players who aren’t the actual host drop all their inventory items upon leaving the world, ESPECIALLY Important stuff such as Purple Gems, Fishing Rod Advert Blueprints, Deerclops eyes, Festive Decorations, Etc..

Gee, I love getting disconnected for 5 minutes and having my entire inventory stolen by another player or eaten by an eyeplant.

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Mike23Ua    3,003
2 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

Gee, I love getting disconnected for 5 minutes and having my entire inventory stolen by another player or eaten by an eyeplant.

Maybe it should be dropped in a special backpack that only the actual server host or the player who held the items can pick up or loot?

there are LOTS of ways to implement a system like this to further prevent grieving, A generous host would return items to said Disconnected player- 

And a host who does not return your items to you upon your return is obviously a server you shouldn’t want to play on anyway.

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00petar00    137
53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe it should be dropped in a special backpack that only the actual server host or the player who held the items can pick up or loot?

there are LOTS of ways to implement a system like this to further prevent grieving, A generous host would return items to said Disconnected player- 

And a host who does not return your items to you upon your return is obviously a server you shouldn’t want to play on anyway.

That's just complicating the system where it doesn't need to be so complicated.

Public servers are not possible to ever be in a good shape because the game is made to be hard, If you don't get any griefers, on the first summer you'd lose everything if you didn't use mods while you had public server. There are many new players that don't know what to do and stuff burns fast, whole forests will be gone.

Game can't differentiate between a griefer and a bad player ultimately.

I don't think klei will opt in to simplify the game even more then it currently is for DST, if you have never played DS give it a try and see how different it is.

There are just so many things klei would have to change that it just isn't viable for them to grief-proof the game.

I already mentioned it above, if you want a serious run, you find teammates and put a password on a server.

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