NurdRage Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Never knew about this bug. There are so many "undocumented features" of this game that i don't think i'll ever truly play it as opposed to button mashing it. Anyway. Does this bug hurt something like a sour gas boiler? Should i have a layer of molten lead in the boiler section to maximize efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/18/2019 at 7:51 PM, NurdRage said: Anyway. Does this bug hurt something like a sour gas boiler? Should i have a layer of molten lead in the boiler section to maximize efficiency? That might not be a bad idea, especially considering how cheap lead is. Low cost and potential gains. I see no reason to believe this bug would not exist in a sour gas boiler. Perhaps someone should investigate this question. @mathmanican Is this bug related to flaking at all? Or the bubbling off of 5 kg packets when boiling a cool liquid by a solid material? I feel like it's probably related to abyssalite boiling liquids really easily. Because, strictly speaking, a liquid shouldn't turn to gas until all of the liquid in the tile is at the boiling point and it all changes at once in this game. I just did an experiment where I painted 1 tile 36 kg of 2000 K insulation next to a 1 tile deep 5 tile wide 1000 kg/tile 280 K water pool. The room is 3 tiles tall. That tiny amount of insulation managed to boil away essentially all of the 5000 kg of water up to 373.4 K while only losing 295.4 K. According to the debug tools, this added about 2000 MJ of heat energy to the system. Spoiler I repeated this process with several other materials: Insulation at 100 kg 2000 K insuation vs 3500 kg at 220 K petroleum. According to the debug tools, the starting net energy = 2496.2 MJ. The net energy at the end was 6802.3 MJ, with almost all of the petroleum boiled off in to sour gas. NOTE: I did try this with 36 kg insulation as with water, but it didn't work. The mass of the source material appears to be a factor. I tried it again with only 1000 K on the insulation (which is an achievable temperature) and 220K on the petroleum. Same effect, except the insulation stopped boiling the petroleum after a while because its temp got too low. Still managed to boil it down to 48 kg/tile. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 10 hours ago, NurdRage said: Anyway. Does this bug hurt something like a sour gas boiler? Should i have a layer of molten lead in the boiler section to maximize efficiency? No, since the oil is pre heated in the counter flow heat exchanger so that by the time it drips out of the vent, it is almost the same temperature as the sour gas. 4 hours ago, Zarquan said: I just did an experiment where I painted 1 tile 36 kg of 2000 K insulation next to a 1 tile deep 5 tile wide 1000 kg/tile 280 K water pool. The room is 3 tiles tall. That tiny amount of insulation managed to boil away essentially all of the 5000 kg of water up to 373.4 K while only losing 295.4 K. According to the debug tools, this added about 2000 MJ of heat energy to the system. Wow. That's messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 20 hours ago, psusi said: No, since the oil is pre heated in the counter flow heat exchanger so that by the time it drips out of the vent, it is almost the same temperature as the sour gas. Actually, if what I found out is the effect in this bug. where when this boiling happens and it doesn't matter what the mass of the heat source is, it almost certainly would happen in a sour gas boiler unless the sour gas was kept at a low pressure using a structure like a bead pump. EDIT, I made a typo here, the mass of the heat source is what matters and you want it as small as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Zarquan said: Actually, if what I found out is the effect in this bug. where when this boiling happens and it doesn't matter what the mass of the heat source is, it almost certainly would happen in a sour gas boiler unless the sour gas was kept at a low pressure using a structure like a bead pump. According to the video, the problem is the large difference in mass and temperature between the steam and the water. With a sour gas boiler. the oil is nearly the same temperature as the sour gas, and the pressure of the sour gas isn't that high, so it won't be affected by this bug. Say, I wonder if using a packet combiner so you always have full 10kg drops of water instead of 2kg would also help reduce the heat deletion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 My point is I'm not sure the video is right. I believe the bug I demonstrated is the same bug, but in reverse. Since the hot was a small mass and the cold was a large mass, heat was created. If I reverse that and have the hot side be big and the cold side be small, then you would lose heat. Allow me to demonstrate with the same bug,, but in reverse. Here I have 10,000,000 kg of insulation at 2000 K. I paint in 1000 kg/tile water at about 0.9 C. As you can see in the picture, there is a reported 111,405,700 MJ of heat energy in the system. Spoiler I let this boil off, and it does so in the same way as before, but curiously for not nearly as long. The amount of heat energy has decreased massively to 26,015,270. That is a loss of 85,390,430 MJ of heat, the VAST majority of the heat in the system. Surprisingly, it didn't boil nearly as much as when it was 36 kg. My bet is that there is a divide where there should be a multiply in their boiling off equation. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 hours ago, psusi said: According to the video, the problem is the large difference in mass and temperature between the steam and the water. With a sour gas boiler. the oil is nearly the same temperature as the sour gas, and the pressure of the sour gas isn't that high, so it won't be affected by this bug. Basically, it's the mass, not the temperature. If you boil the steam in a separate chamber where the boiling-flaking effect can't happen, meaning low mass conduction, then there should be no more heat loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Alternatively, you can make it so the water is never in contact with the steam by using Visco-gel, which floats on water. If you put the vent at the bottom of the room, visco-gel on the vent ~300 gram and a gold weight plate on the side in a corner to prevent the water from coming in contact with the steam. If my theory is correct, this should completely eliminate any heat loss from the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nommy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Has this heat deletion bug been fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambaire Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 2/20/2020 at 4:13 PM, Nommy said: Has this heat deletion bug been fixed? Excellent question. I rediscovered this thread from a link posted on Reddit 5 hours ago, and a comment said it seemed to still be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpreadsheetGamr Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 This bug has really done my head in. I redesigned my volcano tamer with it in mind and have been doing some efficiency testing but it seems to be doing over 100% efficiency now, 112% actually. The method I used to minimise the effect of this bug was the single-tile method (no horizontal flow permitted). I generated 6130.5kJ of energy out of 3465.9kg of magma that was at 1700c, cooling to igneous at 98c. In theory it should have required 3883.8kg of magma. The temperature of components, fluids and gasses at each end of the test was accounted for. I'm not trying to exploit the game for a reverse version of this bug but I seem to have done it accidentally in a way that I don't know how to avoid :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortie Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I'm really hoping this bug gets fixed soon. I have thought of a fix myself, I don't know if it's easy to implement. Instead of creating a water pile, the game could also check if there's steam present in the tile and immediatly add the water weight to the steam weight. The temperature must then be redistributed according to the formula attached below. You could also use this for the more generalized situation where a liquid element drips down onto it's gaseous phase. Then you also have to take into account the THC's for both, but since they're the same for water and steam you can leave them out for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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