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Questions for people with bigger gaming setups


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I'm working on getting a new desktop soon and had some questions towards some of the people on here who already have good setups. I assume one of the main pieces of hardware that affects stability in this game is your processor and I'm debating between getting a ryzen 7 3700x or if I should spring for a ryzen 9 3900x (the ryzen 7 has 8 cores vs the ryzen 9 having 12). I guess the main question is how late in the game are people with higher end set ups having issues vs their processing power and is there any other hard ware that I'm not thinking of that would help with stability? I'm going to be getting a decent set up for all the games I play but I want to make sure I can play oni to the later parts of the game. Any help would be appreciated.

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Frankly for gaming, you usually want a quad. In very rare cases, a hex. I have a hex.

 

Even in games with lots of threads, how well it can balance load has a lot to do with synchronization & checkpoints. Meaning on most games, you gain little benefit from having 8 physical cores.

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9 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Frankly for gaming, you usually want a quad. In very rare cases, a hex. I have a hex.

 

Even in games with lots of threads, how well it can balance load has a lot to do with synchronization & checkpoints. Meaning on most games, you gain little benefit from having 8 physical cores.

So your saying that even the 3700x would be excessive? 

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I'm rocking:

  • 970gtx
  • i7 6700k quad core @4ghz
  • corsair platinum (can't remember) DDR4 32gb sooooooooo expensive rn because of natural disasters+economy
  • Z170-Deluxe MB
  • Seagate HDDs for storage (ssd/hdd combo, but any mass storage works based on your needs)
  • samsung ssd nvme for OS
  • corsair closed looped cooler (better cpu life)
  • extra stuff, sound cards, usb multipliers, etc.

It all comes down to budget. Use https://pcpartpicker.com/ for help with your builds. If I were to build my next pc, I would keep in mind how lanes work (bandwidth) because this is what determines how many cards you can add without throttling.

45 minutes ago, crbd115 said:

I assume one of the main pieces of hardware that affects stability in this game is your processor

It seems to be more oriented towards using only 2 cores. Lifegrow has a vid about prioritizing ONI processes that supposedly helps with lag. The rest of us try to limit dupe/critter pathing and physics calculations in game with future planning. You could beat the game with a low end pc, but the fun is in all the crazy builds that a low end would not survive.

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1 minute ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

I'm rocking:

  • 970gtx
  • i7 6700k quad core @4ghz
  • corsair platinum (can't remember) DDR4 32gb sooooooooo expensive rn because of natural disasters+economy
  • Z170-Deluxe MB
  • Seagate HDDs for storage (ssd/hdd combo, but any mass storage works based on your needs)
  • samsung ssd nvme for OS
  • corsair closed looped cooler (better cpu life)
  • extra stuff, sound cards, usb multipliers, etc.

It all comes down to budget. Use https://pcpartpicker.com/ for help with your builds.

It seems to be more oriented towards using only 2 cores. Lifegrow has a vid about prioritizing ONI processes that supposedly helps with lag. The rest of us try to limit dupe/critter pathing and physics calculations in game with future planning. You could beat the game with a low end pc, but the fun is in all the crazy builds that a low end would not survive.

Yeah I'm actually using pcpartpicker right now. I plan to do some streaming with this new set up so ill probably go for the ryzen 3700x then since it sounds like I probably wont need the ryzen 3900x. Thanks for the help.

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I have a hex-core Xeon setup with 48GB of RAM in my workstation. I can tell you that ONI never uses more than 400% CPU so you want something with 4 cores minimum and the highest base speed. If the chart I found on Google Images[1] is accurate about the lineup, you want a 3600 or a 3800, because the 3700 actually has a lower base speed.

I can tell you that ONI has never used more than 20GB of RAM, but never less than 10GB. I would definitely recommend >=24GB of RAM if I was building a new machine specifically to play this game.

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If you only play ONI, 4 cores are good, 6 cores are better, because then there are still 2 cores left for OS, Browser and such. More is wasted money.

If you want to play different new AAA-titles too, go for a 8-core. It will serve you a few years longer. Everything above 8 cores is money wasted, as long as you dont do heavy video/photo editing 

Invest the saved money in 32GB very good RAM (ryzen is picky about its RAM, and you can achieve higher performance with good RAM)

As for the GPU, you dont need a good one for ONI. That depends on other games you want to play.

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5 minutes ago, Xaekai said:

48GB of RAM

48GB, what is the purpose of your build sir? Are you processing heavy graphics in your line of work? Anything over 8GB goes over recreational use. Even 16GB is enough for power users. I've never actually paid much attention to the memory, I'll have to check for myself how much oni uses.

Just now, SharraShimada said:

Everything above 8 cores is money wasted

Programs are starting to use 8 cores now? can you provide examples, most ones that I use only use 1-4 cores.

Just now, SharraShimada said:

As for the GPU, you dont need a good one for ONI

I can attest to this, the game is very cpu intensive.

Just now, SharraShimada said:

If you only play ONI, 4 cores are good, 6 cores are better

Close, I believe ONI uses only 2 cores. There is nothing wrong with having > or = 4 cores for the OS and the rest of your programs. Even then threading takes care of a lot of this already.

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7 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I'm working on getting a new desktop soon and had some questions towards some of the people on here who already have good setups. I assume one of the main pieces of hardware that affects stability in this game is your processor and I'm debating between getting a ryzen 7 3700x or if I should spring for a ryzen 9 3900x (the ryzen 7 has 8 cores vs the ryzen 9 having 12). I guess the main question is how late in the game are people with higher end set ups having issues vs their processing power and is there any other hard ware that I'm not thinking of that would help with stability? I'm going to be getting a decent set up for all the games I play but I want to make sure I can play oni to the later parts of the game. Any help would be appreciated.

If you're talking ONI... an older quad-core will work beautifully.

 

12 minutes ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

48GB, what is the purpose of your build sir? Are you processing heavy graphics in your line of work? Anything over 8GB goes over recreational use. Even 16GB is enough for power users. I've never actually paid much attention to the memory, I'll have to check for myself how much oni uses.

Programs are starting to use 8 cores now? can you provide examples, most ones that I use only use 1-4 cores.

I can attest to this, the game is very cpu intensive.

Close, I believe ONI uses only 2 cores. There is nothing wrong with having > or = 4 cores for the OS and the rest of your programs. Even then threading takes care of a lot of this already.

For ONI, you really want at least 10G of RAM.  I'm running at 16G, and with ONLY the game running, I sit at 10G counting my operating system overhead.  With other games I'd definitely agree with @BLACKBERREST3, but ONI uses a lot of RAM.

The newer processors (8+ cores) are designed with multi-threaded operating systems in mind.  They do really well at juggling the overhead of a lot of small tasks.  Want to run two virtual machines and play CoD at the same time? Fine. No problem.  Unfortunately, ONI does a LOT of number crunching, so processors that are multi-core but tuned for single-threaded performance are best.  My i5-4690s from 2014 does really well with ONI.  So I kinda agree with @BLACKBERREST3 on this one.

 

One thing to pay attention to is the number of memory channels and the speed of your RAM.  As mentioned above, ONI uses a LOT of ram and it does a LOT of calculations .. on the stuff saved in RAM.  So it has to load data from RAM to the processor, run some math, send it back, get some more, etc.   If you have a choice between dual-channel and quad-channel RAM, go with the quad-channel.  You'll notice a huge difference, more than the difference between a quad-core and an 8-core CPU.

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Just looked it up, I believe my cpu only supports dual channel. A lot of articles I have read said that there was no major improvement all around the board between dual and quad, but they weren't thinking about Oxygen Not Included, the only program that does matter :p

Also here's a look at my processes currently

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.d839bf2e9ec023f61fcbea1eb520c239.png

image.thumb.png.762d03f3a07aef55a904b12d4913a064.png

That is with no pathing, zero dupes, and a whole lot of empty space.

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Chrome is a beast! I'm having a problem that started only today with chrome. Maybe something to do with its flash player plugin breaking? I have to constantly close out of chrome and reopen it now. It's not the worst, but it's super annoying. Anything I can try? looking it up didn't net me any results.

I can't tell what changed between now and yesterday other than my tab count, but I've brought it back down to the same number and it still has infinite loading that only closing/reopening fixes.

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Chromium is a great example of a program that can use as many cores as you can throw at it, because each tab is a child process.

1 hour ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

48GB, what is the purpose of your build sir?

funposting* on the internet. lel. 

I have 32GB for my Primary OS Archlinux to do full stack webdev and technical editing, and two VMs, a 4GB CentOS for devops and services I want to decouple from my main OS so that if I nuke and pave I don't have to reconfigure them, and a 12GB Windows for games I give up my "ree Linux support!" zealousy for because I'd be waiting forever, such as Ori and The Blind Forest.

 

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I can get ONI to occupy 12GB RAM without any problems. And there are people in the bug section, stating the game crashes when only 8GB are availlable.

And with certain games, AND a browser open at the same time, i even can get my 16GB rig to struggle for RAM. 

And then there are games like ARK, Skyrim (with 64bit Patch, or extended edition) or Fallout 4  which can all by themself eat 16GB alone. (with mods)

16GB is fine with many games, but the time where 16GB are enough for everyone is over. 

 

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I have about the best computer you can get for this game, and I would recommend getting a current gen i5 or i7 for this. The single core benchmarks are what matter for ONI, and looking at ONI specific test threads appears to support this. That's not an option for you it seems, unfortunately.

And get 16GB as a minimum if you are wanting to play end game standard size maps.

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7 hours ago, Xaekai said:

Chromium is a great example of a program that can use as many cores as you can throw at it, because each tab is a child process.

funposting* on the internet. lel. 

I have 32GB for my Primary OS Archlinux to do full stack webdev and technical editing, and two VMs, a 4GB CentOS for devops and services I want to decouple from my main OS so that if I nuke and pave I don't have to reconfigure them, and a 12GB Windows for games I give up my "ree Linux support!" zealousy for because I'd be waiting forever, such as Ori and The Blind Forest.

 

Yeah, at 16gb I'm coming up short for RAM when running my VMs.  I should probably mess around with Archlinux, but the various debian branches are familiar to me.

7 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

The only linux environment I'm familiar with is pi.

As I write this, I have a Pi Zero W hosting a web server with details about my system battery charge level, a Pi3 running PiHole, another Pi running a Plex server, a Pi3 on my workbench hooked up to a breadboard, a final Pi3 with a USB ethernet dongle working as a firewall (OpenWRT) for a small private school... and a pi2 VPN server behind my dad's firewall so I can troubleshoot his network problems when he calls to tell me "the intertubes aren't working."

... sorry for the deviation.  I think I have a Pi problem.

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2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I should probably mess around with Archlinux, but the various debian branches are familiar to me.

After I got the hang of Arch's AUR, I was never ever going back to Debian or it's derivatives. Arch does not hold your hand like Ubuntu does, but doesn't require the considerable time investment that learning Gentoo does. These days I even use Arch for the servers I host because I found the arguments to not to uncompelling. It's fun being your own VPS provider. A friend and I colocate our own metals, and we use CentOS for the host OS on those since that's ideal for OpenVZ7. But my VM nodes are all Arch. OVZ7 makes it easy to snapshot the VM for rollbacks in case Arch's bleeding edge nature ever breaks something. But I haven't had any problems so far (at least in the VM userland) and I've been doing that for about four years now.

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Game is very single core so intel definitely the way to go faster single core clock speeds  . 16 GB bare minimum ram. When streaming to be fair if you have a good GPU can stream pretty much anything since most streamers lock fps to 60 run at 1080p most of the time but stream 720p because a lot of people have slow internet connections . I have a 2070 super with a I5 8600k can stream anything was doing control on max settings etc

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18 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

I can't tell what changed between now and yesterday other than my tab count, but I've brought it back down to the same number and it still has infinite loading that only closing/reopening fixes.

I figured it out! It's ONI University :D 

It's gotten too big. At this rate it might it might take me 5 minutes for 1 edit or even worse, just not load at all. I wish there was a way to edit it with embedded links turned off. I hope other people don't have this problem when viewing it.

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30 minutes ago, kingy10005 said:

Game is very single core so intel definitely the way to go faster single core clock speeds  .

If all that mattered was pure single clock speed then the clear winner would be bulldozer CPUs. It's not though, it's a combination of clock speed and IPC that matters, so Zen 2 is definitely the best CPU for this task.

As an example on my laptop which is an i7 6700HQ with 16GB RAM and a Samsung 960 Pro NVMe, so no slouch really, the game run at about 12 FPS after 200 cycles or so. On my budget gaming PC with a Ryzen 3600, 16 GB RAM, and Intel 660p NVMe it runs 60 FPS (it's locked at 60 FPS, it technically runs at about 72 FPS) at 500 cycles.

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14 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

If all that mattered was pure single clock speed then the clear winner would be bulldozer CPUs. It's not though, it's a combination of clock speed and IPC that matters

Exactly this. and yet two different perspectives still come to two very different conclusions.

Expanding on the IPC issue, what matters isn't just how the architecture handles IPC, but also how the program in question performs IPC.

I don't know of a game that does adaptive threading. Although, Vulkan seems to be bringing adaptive threading to the graphics driver space.

What most games do, is break computation up into k buckets of related tasks, and then hook in 'checkpoints' where those different conteexts need to synchronize data.why that matters is some threads will run it almost full speed, while others spend a lot of time waiting on the main threads for data.

What it leads to is most games do not lend themselves well to anything more than a certain number of physical cores.

But oxygen not included might be a bit of an outlier. I wish we had a standard community benchmark from the modding community somewhere, script based, that ran a very controlled test and allowed us to compare set ups for different situations.

Basically I'm getting it, eight cores might not be a waste but some real benchmarking is warranted. I am certainly biased by my past experience, but things have changed a lot in just the last two years.

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Laptops CPUs are basically toys. And when they're not, their cooling can't keep up. My i7 laptop from three years ago gets 12 fps too. My desktop i7 from 6 years ago gets 45-60 at 3x. My 9700k gets 40-57fps late game at 10x. (Now I'm playing on a half width map to keep a perfect 60 at 10x, highly recommended.)

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