How can WereGoose be improved

[SinancoTheBest]

Alright, the Woodie rework is upon us and it caused a lot of stirr in the forums. But the right course of action, in my humble opinion, is to suggest how elements of the update can be imroved upon, instead of asking Klei to revert Woodie back or delete the new transformations etc, which are not going to be happening.

 

Mainly, I see a lot of untapped potential in Weregoose so wanted to specifically focus on how to improve it. The common pieces of constructive criticism i found in the forums are: 'too slow for the cost', 'should swim and jump across' 'very fast drain' 'why would you even transform to it willingly' etc. As someone else said, Klei should have either made long mediocre transformations or short powerful ones but instead they made short mediocre ones. This can be fixed with lenghtening the transformations and giving them more perks.

 

For the Goose, in order to remedy that, it needs to really be fast to be worthvile, even faster than WX with a walking cane. I dont think this form should be able to replenish Weremeter as it'd be such an overpowered scout with that speed, mapping everything in one go. But the duration should definately be lenghtened (multiplied 2/3 fold) and slowed even more significantly by running around continuously. (So it's still useful for locomotion mid-late game, getting across many biomes in one go)

 

For swimming and jumping across, it should have two options: if there is a small ravine in caves or made by a river/sea it should be able to dash across by flapping wings rapidly, almost touching the sea like a landing goose and get across like wortox. (Should be initiated by right clicking intended point across the chasm so he doesnt perfom this automatically without a target and fall into pits in caves, can't be stopped mid flight)

 

For actual swimming, not to make sailing obsolete, when jumping into the sea it should make the flapping motion for a few tiles into the sea and then land in the sea, float and swim like a duck but move rather slowly, like the piggyback speed. In this state it should have increased weremeter drain as it is not speeding. This would let it swim and scout sea a bit but not allow too much as it would risk drowning due to the rapid weremeter drain. It should have the 'dash to the land' option by doing that wing flapping dash if the land is close.

 

Goose's weremeter should last longer but still be the shortest amongst three transformations and it should be slow significantly when running and dashing but sped up while standing idle or swimming. It is logical to lose a lot of hunger for running so fast but instead of immediate starvation, perhaps ~10 hunger should be preserved. (Hunger should be lowered the most in this form in order to balance very high speed, dashing and swimming, hunger penalty should vary between forms)

 

It doesn't require an attack or an intimidation taunt in my opinion but could have a weak peck attack and have lower chance to agro and shorter time agro stay just like and the opposite of Wes' perks in Forge respectively.

 

Finally to add in to the curse element and make normal woodie gameplay more different than a "Wilson with better axe", transformations should be forced by specific situations as someone said in forums, invading into the Woodie gameplay. For Goose, in order to emphasize the fast, fleeing concept behing Goose, it should be forced when Woodie's health is lowered below 20% by an attack (not everytime but once in a while like a whole day or after healing above 50% after returning to human form, similar to mighty wolfgang in forge) so to limit woodie from effectively fighting with low HP and staying in long fights without healing but would also benefiting his survivability as displayed in the woodie rework animation (this particular transformation should have invincibility frames while transforming)

 

The idols should have different usage costs if you ask me (for example moose should cost almost no health so not to hinder fighting) but I think Goose can retain the highest Hp cost for transformation amongst 3 idols if it gets these speed, dash-across and swimming perks. It would go along with the 'getting damaged and fleeing to fight later' concept of this form.

 

Thanks for your attention. I sincerely hope both Woodie and Don't Starve end up benefitting from the Aoodie rework after all tweaks and fixes are done.

[WoodieMain45684]

1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Finally to add in to the curse element and make normal woodie gameplay more different than a "Wilson with better axe", transformations should be forced by specific situations as someone said in forums, invading into the Woodie gameplay. For Goose, in order to emphasize the fast, fleeing concept behing Goose, it should be forced when Woodie's health is lowered below 20% by an attack

I really like this; Woodie's wereforms right now are almost entirely optional. I feel like klei made the wereforms not to great because Woodie himself doesn't have many drawbacks. (Also the idols are dirt cheap aside from the health cost.) I also agree with goose running faster with WX because, unlike WX, the goose cannot pick, craft, or interact with anything in the world. If its going to do only one thing, it should do it right.

[MondayNight]

Q: "How can WereGoose be improved?"

 

A: The secret lies in the garnishing!

[ShadowDuelist]

Also, please let the goose not get the heavy meter drain if he dances. Let's organize silly goose dance festivals.

[SinancoTheBest]

5 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Q: "How can WereGoose be improved?"

 

A: The secret lies in the garnishing!

I see Warly entered the chat ^^ Wonder if he thinkers what he can prepare with Woodie's wereforms

[Canis]

Well, now the goose can run over water, which is a great and unique niche. So, mission success?

[Scrimbles]

On top of the fantastic changes Klei made in their latest hotfix, adding changes like you're 20% health suggestion for the goose, re implementing the Werebeavers transformation mechanic when chopping trees, and maybe forcing the moose transformation when killing too many creatures are potentially great ways of giving Woodie a proper downside.

[maciu67]

1 hour ago, Canis said:

So, mission success?

Only the deadly loss of hunger will be changed and the mission will be completed.

[Ezaroth]

5 minutes ago, maciu67 said:

Only the deadly loss of hunger will be changed and the mission will be completed.

That's the only downside left, no need to remove that too.

[maciu67]

8 minutes ago, Ezaroth said:

That's the only downside left, no need to remove that too.

It is enough that after transformation Woodie would have 10 hunger points.

[Fill-Lips]

Just now, maciu67 said:

It is enough that after transformation Woodie would have 10 hunger points.

Just keep food on ya, simple enough, downside averted!

[Ezaroth]

Just now, maciu67 said:

It is enough that after transformation Woodie would have 10 hunger points.

No big deal, you already took damage from eating the idol, a few more won't hurt.

[maciu67]

12 minutes ago, Ezaroth said:

No big deal, you already took damage from eating the idol, a few more won't hurt.

If you fight as a weremoose and you have 1 health point, believe me it will hurt you.

[ShadowDuelist]

4 hours ago, maciu67 said:

If you fight as a weremoose and you have 1 health point, believe me it will hurt you.

Its part of the new con, you can't play to go berserk all in and fight until you are at 5 hp. If you notice you are getting too much damage as the moose, you have to use the charge to retreat and go back to Woodie.

And it forces you to have to plan ahead, and always have healing food on you, or at very least, food. I think given how powerful the transformations are now, its pretty fair. 

Woodie now needs to take care of a few simple tips:

• If you want to use the transformations, plan ahead, get food and/or healing, and always have in mind a safe spot to retreat if your meter is running low.
• If you don't have any food on you, simply avoid the transformations.
• If full moon is coming and you have no food, get food quick, or go to the caves. Full moons are always the uneven number followed by one: 11, 31, 51, 71, 91, 111, 131, etc. When a day number that finishes in 1 is coming, pay attention and check if its full moon or not.
• If you are doing something, and full moon is coming, make sure you have food and transform before the full moon hits to the creature that would be the most benefitial, or the least problematic, to what you are doing. Full moon will respect that transformation and keep you as that a bit more.
• If you don't do anything at all, you get out of the transformation, even in full moon. All you need is food (preferably healing food).

In return for these precautions, we got:

• Best lumberjack
• An awesome miner too
• Best explorer of the game
• Best early game fighter (moose), one of the best spiders, bees, grumble bees and hounds killer (the charge of the moose) and as long as you have a bundle with a bunch of jerky and moose idols (which are both super cheap to stockpile), you can now go around naked and still be always fight ready in the late game.

No more buffs to woodie required, in my opinion, we will even start getting videos of his exploits really soon, asking for a nerf I'm sure xD

[maciu67]

32 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Its part of the new con, you can't play to go berserk all in and fight until you are at 5 hp. If you notice you are getting too much damage as the moose, you have to use the charge to retreat and go back to Woodie

But now Woodie is only character who must receive damage. Loss of hunger gives him that.

32 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Best lumberjack

Maxwell is better

32 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

• An awesome miner too
• Best explorer of the game

True

32 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Best early game fighter (moose), one of the best spiders, bees, grumble bees and hounds killer (the charge of the moose) and as long as you have a bundle with a bunch of jerky and moose idols (which are both super cheap to stockpile), you can now go around naked and still be always fight ready in the late game.

Abigail is still better

32 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

No more buffs to woodie required, in my opinion, we will even start getting videos of his exploits really soon, asking for a nerf I'm sure xD

That's funny. Before update Weregoose was useless and now It is too powerful.

[Thomas Die]

if you want to have some hunger points after you can change the woodie file ,it's decently simple

[Ezaroth]

2 hours ago, maciu67 said:

That's funny. Before update Weregoose was useless and now It is too powerful.

because they added not 1, not 2, but 7 buffs in the update.

Like mentioned before, Woodie is now a jack of all trades. No point in comparing him with other characters.

[ShadowDuelist]

Woodie is now a true druid at heart: can switch roles on a finch being much better than average at them,  at the cost of not being the best.

He also has a few unique perks like walking on water, bonus summoning treeguards, and the permanent nightvision.

And the best of all, you don't have to grind that much to use him right.

 

 

[Electroely]

I really do think Woodie's perfect the way he is right now. Every one of his three forms is a ton of fun to use. They last a good while, they're good at what they're made to do and are totally worth the cost.

I don't think he needs a nerf, either. Even after the buffs it is possible to overuse the transformations and find yourself at low health when you really don't want to be. But it doesn't really annoy the player much, just makes them work a little more for their transformations.

I played him on a world today, and it was the best experience I've had in DST in YEARS! The animations and music are delightful and the transformations he can use all make their respective job a lot more fun to do (even moving around is significantly more fun with night vision, insulation and water walking). I really hope they don't change him. He's perfect how he is now.