trap has anyone created a heat trap?

[geniusthemaster]

im trying to figure out a way to trap heat in a 8x8 or smaller area by using converyor belts and or water pipes and or insulation tiles. mostly insulation tiles.

i want to siphon heat without using high voltage to trap extreme heat in a room, any ideas? -all materials and end game substances allowed.

[LucidFugue]

Usually the best way to do this is build the chamber around a source of extreme heat like a volcano, or setup what you're trying to do in the magma biome. Any heat transfer using conveyors and pipes is usually for a specific purpose, like causing a state change in a material or for heat exchange purposes. Do you have a specific use in mind for your heat trap? 

[geniusthemaster]

well i wanted to take ambient heat and collect it in a dense location, for storage purposes and later to resolve crude oil into petroleum. im trying to trap ambient heat is the goal.

[beowulf2010]

26 minutes ago, geniusthemaster said:

im trying to figure out a way to trap heat in a 8x8 or smaller area by using converyor belts and or water pipes and or insulation tiles. mostly insulation tiles.

i want to siphon heat without using high voltage to trap extreme heat in a room, any ideas? -all materials and end game substances allowed.

Without using aquatuners or thermo regulators, I don't know of any other way to move/siphon heat. 

Using rails and/or pipes is only going to normalize the temperatures between the pipes and storage area. 

[LucidFugue]

Heat exchange has to work by drawing two materials closer together in temperature, so your medium has to be cooler than the ambient temperature to "collect" the heat, and can't directly dump it into a chamber that is already hotter (it will instead cool the chamber and heat the medium). 

You can "collect" ambient heat by pumping liquids through regular or radiant pipes where the liquid is cooler than the ambient temperature. If they are cooler than the ambient temperature, they will exchange heat, lowering the ambient temperature while heating up the medium. However, you then need to keep cooling your medium. You can create a heated chamber by running liquids through an aquatuner, which will cool your medium and dump the heat into its immediate environment. 

Few people aim to "store" that heat, for a few reasons. Firstly, the heat buildup will eventually destroy the aquatuner. The temperature at which that occurs depends on the material used to build it.

Secondly, there is usually a specific use for that heat, whether it's driving a steam turbine or cooking oil into petroleum. These purposes have specific temperature ranges in which they can be optimised, and builds focus on hitting those ranges. Building a perfectly insulated chamber to store heat is complicated. Building an imperfectly insulated chamber will bleed heat back out into the environment. I'ts generally better to use the heat energy for the purpose it is intended for immediately. 

EDIT: Another way to think about storing heat is converting it into energy and storing that. Hence why steam turbine aquatuner builds are so common now. 

[geniusthemaster]

i know their must be a way to store energy without converting it to electricity. maybe runes?

 

[DarkMoge]

The first problem with trying to store heat is that most things in the game do not actually have enough heat to be useful... One thing that has enough heat to be useful is lava, you have a lot of lava already stored at the bottom of the map and you have volcanoes that produce lava and molten metals.... So... to store some heat for later use... Find a volcano, build a large pool below it and insulate the area with vacuum. Than, make use of it when you are ready... Effectively, you are letting your volcanoes generate ton of energy for a later use...

Another way to store heat starts with the idea that aquatuners produce a lot of heat... You usually need to cool down something, like, your water geyser is giving you water at 95 C, so you need to use aquatuner to reduce it to like 25 C... The problem with aquatuners heating up is usually resolved by deleting that heat with steam turbine and I cant really think of a good reason not to delete it with a steam turbine right away... Like, the only 2 uses for the heat is boiling water for steam turbine which the whole cooling it down right away already does or making petroleum/sour gas which requires thermium aquatuner and is just resolved by dripping the crude oil on aquatuner for cooling it down. So... Storing it is usually not a question...

But I like thinking outside a box, so, I tried to setup something that cools down aquatuner by using useless materials. One such useless material is CO2.


This is an aquatuner made out of thermium working 24/7 trying to cool down water... To cool down the machinery, I run 700g of CO2 that is initially 110C (most machinery produce CO2 at that temperature) through radiant pipe. The room is filled with hydrogen to exchange heat. The result is 950+ C hot CO2 for later use... Same principle could be applied to other mass that we have endless supply of... The problem with using CO2 is that its actually hard to store high temp gas... Its easier to store hard material like dirt or lumber... the problem with those is that rails end up moving 20 kg of material... And well, to heat up lumber from 20 C to about a 1000 C... 1 aquatuner is only able to handle 170g per second... so, we need to figure out a way in which to only supply packets of 170g rather than 20000g.

[geniusthemaster]

your right theres no packetizer for solid objects, ill put in a suggestion to klei right now.

[geniusthemaster]

any chance you could create something that turns dirt into sand via conveyor belt? using an array of aquatuners? its kind of a novelty concept now that theres plenty of sand in the biomes but the question remains @DarkMoge

[DarkMoge]

2 hours ago, geniusthemaster said:

 

your right theres no packetizer for solid objects, ill put in a suggestion to klei right now.

 

Because I do not like leaving projects unsolved, I designed a system that will produce 845C hot lumber 170g per second.


Even though it shows 862.8C there, it actually only heats it up to 845C.
So, how does it work? Basically, because we are limited to 20kg packets, the idea is to keep the packets inside for 120 seconds.
20000/170=117.6
Though, when I set up a system that keeps lumber inside for 120 seconds, it came out at the temperature of 260C... Because the thermal conductivity is too slow. If you are not familiar with it, in oni, heating up a block with mass 2kg, takes at least twice as long as heating up a block with 1kg mass. The DTU exchange is same for any mass, but to actually change the temperature of something, you need more DTU's, the more mass you have. 
So, I set up my next experiment by sending 10 packets every 1200 seconds. They came out at 880C. What I noticed is that during the last 200 seconds, aquatuner was barely working... Another quality of the heat exchange in the game is that it depends on the temperature difference between the two carriers: the larger the temp difference is - the faster it happens... At about 170C difference, the exchange becomes too slow for out purposes. So I made it that 10 packets are supplied every 1000 seconds and they come out at 845C.

Here is the automation used:

Trust me on that one, I have master education in engineering of computer systems and working on phd in electronics  Also, it is a pretty simple circuit, I cant be bothered to explain.

Also, its important to extend the rails for a few extra tiles to ensure the system stability.


Well, there are a lot of things that are hard to convey through screenshots... So... Here is a save file:
HeatStorage.sav

Also, you are actually limited to storing 100t of material per tile... So the system will start deleting mass after about 970 cycles.

[LucidFugue]

Oh wow. I was going to post an idea abotu using a smart storage bin -> autosweeper -> conveyor loader to reduce the packet size to under 20kgs, but I wasn't sure what the minimum capacity was you could set on a smart storage bin and if it was under 20kgs anyway. 

This is much more involved! 

[DarkMoge]

You can apply same principle to dirt into sand, all you need is to temperature control it to be at 350C... You can supply about 1235g/s of dirt. All you need to do is to calculate the amount of seconds the dirt needs to stay inside the aquatuner room... But honestly, most things can use regolith which is easily available as a substitute for sand. You cant make glass out of sand, but you can make sand out of other materials.

4 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

Oh wow. I was going to post an idea abotu using a smart storage bin -> autosweeper -> conveyor loader to reduce the packet size to under 20kgs, but I wasn't sure what the minimum capacity was you could set on a smart storage bin and if it was under 20kgs anyway. 

This is much more involved! 

1 kg. Technically, dividing into 1 kg packets would make the system work much faster and produce higher temp material.

[mathmanican]

8 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

What I noticed is that during the last 200 seconds, aquatuner was barely working.

Add some metal tiles to the room, and run the lumber through the metal tiles. The heat transfer will speed up quite a bit, as debris inside tiles get a boost in thermal transfer.  

Also, you can send 20 pokeshell molts (10kg each) on a rail, so if you have a surplus of 10kg pokeshell molts, you can increase the capacity on the rails to 200kg....  (most likely an oversight in coding).

[Zakery]

Anyway, without "makswel deamon forced" devices we have two way heat transfer.

So we can store heat with some mass as carrier or use AT.

In this game we not have "beam" energy transfer, so we limited of mass to mass interaction.

Maybe some mods add something like "beamed termal energy transfer" and reflectors, in this case we can do something like not mass based one way heat energy transfer.

We need:

1) heated body energy "beam" mechanics

2) black body - ideal beam energy consumer to receive enerdy from far heat source

3) white body - ideal beam energy reflector to not receive energy back

From this ingridients we can construct one way heat energy transfer without mass interaction.

 

[bobucles]

You can not passively push heat "uphill". The hottest temperature you find on the map is as hot as normal heat will get. However, super heat can be generated in several ways

Metal refinery: Liquid coolant just keeps getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Use the heat to keep melting hotter materials so you can pump out over 1000C with no space materials. You can even melt the liquid pipes, be careful.

Rapid fire tepidizer: Use automation to toggle it on and off. It'll keep heating things up until it fries itself. It'll eventually fry itself. 

Aquatuner. The main heat pump of ONI. Requires space materials to go over 325C(steel). Cools things down, dumps heat into its core which gets released into the environment.

[mathmanican]

15 hours ago, geniusthemaster said:

i want to siphon heat without using high voltage to trap extreme heat in a room, any ideas?

By "heat" do you actually mean heat energy, or do you mean temperature.  If heat energy is all you want, then using infinite storage of liquid or gas, you can just continue to add more and more of that gas as you transfer heat from objects into your tiny high pressure cell.  As mentioned above, this won't allow you to get temperatures higher and higher, but you can definitely contain as much heat energy as you want (though only materials with higher temperature than the heat sink will add to the actual heat energy).  For example, you can bleed 1800C magma down to 195C rock, and store all the energy in a tiny steam room, ready to release into a steam turbine as desired, and then use a counter heat flow exchanger to get the rock down to 95C (about) while putting all the extra heat into the steam. Similarly, you could store the heat in a 500C bath ready to use for cooking crude to petro.  

If higher temps are what you want, then go with either (1) the metal refinery (for above 3200K), or use rockets (for under 3200K). IIRC, 3200 or 3250 (or something similar) is the temp of exhaust from rockets. Bu neither of these allow you to passively transfer heat from other places into a heat sink.