Why Crafting Tabs Suck (when they're a main ability)

[cantbeatdaboss]

So far 3/4 of the new characters/ reworks have featured characters that have character specific crafting tabs and items as their main abilities.  I will discuss which of these do it wrong, which do it right, and why the characters that do it wrong do it wrong.

     To start off the idea of a crafting tab is to make a character more multiplayer friendly.  Crafting tabs allow characters to bring in items and structures that nobody else can bring in.  This is a good idea but is ruined when the character has no good uses besides their items, meaning that there is no reason to play as them once their items were made.  This was not an issue in single player don't starve because it was very hard to change your character, but it is easy to do so with the celestial portal in dst.

     The worst example of this is Winona.  Winona's traits besides their structures are very limited side abilities.  It is clear that her machines were the main point of this character.  This would be fine if she was the only one who could use them or could use them more effectively than others.  There is absolutely no reason to play as Winona besides her catapults because any character could use them just as effectively as her.  Most people will switch to an S tier character as soon as they've built the catapults.

     The next example I have is Willow.  Willow is great because other characters can use her items but they are MUCH more effective when used by her.  The only problem that I have with them is that they are practically useless when used by someone else, so they lose the main purpose of being character specific items.  It solves the issue of there being no reason to play as her besides her items though.

     My favourite out of the three is Wormwood.  His items work as well with any other character (besides compost wrap) but with a twist.  His items have durability, which means that you will either have to keep swapping to him or just stay as him to save resources.  Wormwood also has other perks besides his crafting tab, which gives more reason to play as him.

     Wickerbottom is a mix between Willow and Wormwood.  Her items have durability so you have to swap to her to "refill" AND the only other character that can use her books is Max.  Max with books is without a doubt better than Wick with books but cannot craft them, so it's up to you to decide if it's worth spending resources to switch to Max when you will have to switch back eventually.

     Overall I'd say my hatred of crafting tabs would be justified if the celestial portal was either removed or tweaked to make it more expensive to use, enough so that you would want to minimize swapping.  My problem is more with the celestial portal than with the items, but I don't see the portal going away in the future, so the better option would be to minimize characters with crafting tabs.  My guess is Warly will be similar to this but I hope that he will gain much more use out of his items than others, similar to Willow, I won't be in town for when Warly comes out sadly so we'll just have to see.  Say what you think about these below or state any ideas you have that could make either crafting tabs/items or the celestial portal better.

[Ezaroth]

Add a cooldown to the portal per player, maybe like once per game year.

[Brago-sama]

31 minutes ago, Ezaroth said:

Add a cooldown to the portal per player, maybe like once per game year.

I'm more partial to having the offering require a drop from a boss, possibly on the toughness of dragonfly or bee queen 

At least dont leave it how it is now with it requiring a single moon rock and purple gem. That's nothing. A free character change

[Viktor234]

3 hours ago, cantbeatdaboss said:

The only problem that I have with them is that [Willow's items] are practically useless when used by someone else, so they lose the main purpose of being character specific items.

Willow's Lighter is useful if you have any sort of fire farm or need an emergency light, because it has a way bigger durability than a torch, allowing you to use it way more often till you need to craft another one.

Her Bernie is also useful to other characters who want to deal with the nightmares in the ruins, or for Wickerbottom if she wants to read multiple books without being distrubed. Also leaving 1-2 in the base will allow other players to handle their nightmares more easily.

I disagree that Willow's items are practically useless for other players, they were pretty useful to Willow even before her rework, if you knew how to use them.

[. . .]

It's a player's choice to change characters, if someone is abusing the mechanic by swapping characters all the time to make a million catapults and then switch to Wolfgang/Wickerbottom then that was the decision made by the player doing that to abuse the mechanic. It's not Klei's fault some people which take the game very seriously abuse the character swap mechanic.

Making it harder to swap characters or putting a limit would only make casual players (the majority of DST players, including myself) potentially have less fun because of a change made which only a handful of people abuse.

If Klei wants to do something then instead of making it harder to change characters which would be dumb because it's already hard, they should just make the characters which are only good for their items better and not only be good because of their items.

[Marthan]

13 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

I'm more partial to having the offering require a drop from a boss, possibly on the toughness of dragonfly or bee queen 

At least dont leave it how it is now with it requiring a single moon rock and purple gem. That's nothing. A free character change

Maybe a from a Upcoming boss from the moon? 

[Loopy Ouroboros]

13 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

I'm more partial to having the offering require a drop from a boss, possibly on the toughness of dragonfly or bee queen 

At least dont leave it how it is now with it requiring a single moon rock and purple gem. That's nothing. A free character change

Not every character is combat-oriented, so the concept of having to defeat a boss monster for the ability to swap characters goes against the spirit of an uncompromising survival game.

[Brago-sama]

5 hours ago, Loopy Ouroboros said:

Not every character is combat-oriented, so the concept of having to defeat a boss monster for the ability to swap characters goes against the spirit of an uncompromising survival game.

This isn't just a survival game.

If it was we wouldn't have optional bosses with 20'000+ health who drop items that negate hunger/food spoilage problems to begin with. I don't see how being able to freely switch characters in  a survival game adds to the survival element of the game. If anything , being able to pick and choose strengths and weaknesses at a moment's notice so freely takes away from that theme.

Changing characters is a very powerful thing to have, but not really central to the game. It being locked behind an optional boss that you have to go out of your way to get seems fine to me.

[Ezaroth]

7 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

negate hunger/food spoilage problems

Pretty sure it's the opposite lulw

[Brago-sama]

8 minutes ago, Ezaroth said:

Pretty sure it's the opposite lulw

I'm dropping the vague factor. Bundling wrap. I was talking about bundling wrap.

[Mrklli]

It's always the player's choice if they want to change their character or not. It was possible via command console even before the celestial portal, you just lost all map information, crafting recipes and critter you maybe had. I think it's great there's now a "legal" way to try different playstyles without needing to create/join a new world, and now you get to keep the progress you made with your old character.

I created a server with my friend and it now has 1500+ days. We have amazing base and have pretty much everything we need but it gets boring if we play all the time with the same characters. We didn't really want a new world, so we decided we randomly change our characters every 250th day. Preparing for the change on a set date without knowing what character you'll get next has become a quest to us, among all the normal preparing for summer/winter and boss fights. It keeps the game interesting when you've already done everything and I think it's good we're no longer forced to reset all our knowledge when it's time to have a new character. It's a pain with rare blueprints.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you HAVE TO do it. It's the same thing with all the game-breaking mods out there. You don't have to use them if you don't like them, but it's good there's lots of possibilities for different players who enjoy different things.

[Crimson Chin]

4 hours ago, Mrklli said:

It's always the player's choice if they want to change their character or not. It was possible via command console even before the celestial portal, you just lost all map information, crafting recipes and critter you maybe had. I think it's great there's now a "legal" way to try different playstyles without needing to create/join a new world, and now you get to keep the progress you made with your old character.

I created a server with my friend and it now has 1500+ days. We have amazing base and have pretty much everything we need but it gets boring if we play all the time with the same characters. We didn't really want a new world, so we decided we randomly change our characters every 250th day. Preparing for the change on a set date without knowing what character you'll get next has become a quest to us, among all the normal preparing for summer/winter and boss fights. It keeps the game interesting when you've already done everything and I think it's good we're no longer forced to reset all our knowledge when it's time to have a new character. It's a pain with rare blueprints.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you HAVE TO do it. It's the same thing with all the game-breaking mods out there. You don't have to use them if you don't like them, but it's good there's lots of possibilities for different players who enjoy different things.

Well sure it IS player's choice, but if all a character really has to offer is a few craftable items and would be better off swapped out for someone else, are they really all that interesting or fun to play? For example look at Wickerbottom, she makes her books and reads them, that's really it. Your playstyle barely changes from Wilson, the most basic character. Her downsides are also boring and have almost no noticeable affect on how you play. In my opinion there really should be much more to a character than that. That's why Winona and even Willow's rework have left me disappointed for the most part. I love all of the characters design wise, but I wish they all were unique in their own ways and offered different playstyles.

Like you said, its player's choice. I have no issues with the celestial portal, but I think the main problem is the most recent character reworks and most of the current characters relying only on their craftable items and having nothing else to offer.

[Mrklli]

15 hours ago, Crimson Chin said:

Snip

I get your point and I respect that, can't really argue with you. The reworks could have been more interesting, but personally I don't know how Klei could have done that without making the characters too op (doesn't mean it wasn't possible). They have their different personalities and backstories which to me are more important than the actual reworks, although it won't affect the gameplay. Maybe I'm just too casual player but I still think the usefulness of the character is more up to the player than the character they play, even if all "special" they can do is a couple of new items. I hate it when players get yelled at for picking the wrong character even if they are cooperative and nice and do everything they can to help others. Not everything needs to be so serious and highly optimized imo, having fun is more important. All the characters are my babies and I love them. 

Getting philosophical, deep down we all are just basic wilsons with some minor quirks and skills making us special, and there's nothing wrong with that  : P

[bjanmanjs]

On 7/14/2019 at 3:40 AM, Viktor234 said:

Bernie is also useful to other characters who want to deal with the nightmares in the ruins

Sadly, normal sized Bernie will only distract shadow creatures (The ones that spawn from low sanity). Nightmare creatures (The ones in the ruins that attack regardless of sanity) will ignore him.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 8:07 AM, Mrklli said:

It's always the player's choice if they want to change their character or not. It was possible via command console even before the celestial portal, you just lost all map information, crafting recipes and critter you maybe had.

You can change your character using the command console without losing any progress by using the command shown below. Replace wilson with the prefab name of the character you wish to change to. For Maxwell and Wigfrid, this is waxwell and wathgrithr, respectively. For all other characters, it is simply their name in lowercase. If the prefab name is misspelled, then you will be despawned to the character selection screen and lose all progress.

ThePlayer.prefab = "wilson" TheWorld:PushEvent("ms_playerdespawn", ThePlayer)

This command will change your character to Wilson, and will save your inventory, crafting recipes, map exploration (Both on the surface and in the caves), days survived, critter, health, hunger, sanity, wetness, temperature, and current location in the world. Health, hunger, and sanity will be saved as flat values, rather than percentages, but will not exceed the maximum of the character being changed to. If your temperature is greater than 35 and the world temperature is less than 35, or vice versa, your temperature will be set to 35. Crafting recipes learnt by being Wickerbottom will only be saved if they were crafted at least once. If the character being changed to is Wilson, Woodie, or Webber, beard progress will be saved, though it will be saved as the number of days gone without shaving, rather than by stage. If you wish to change someone else's character, make sure that you are in the same shard as them, and then type this command:

for k, v in pairs(AllPlayers) do if v.name == "Bob" then v.prefab = "wilson" TheWorld:PushEvent("ms_playerdespawn", v) end end

Replace Bob with the username of the player you wish to change the character of.

[Dr. Safety]

I really like how Maxwell’s crafting tab is implemented. Technically speaking that is his only upside (apart from the sanity thing but let’s be real here). However the things that he crafts can’t be used unless you are Maxwell. You can’t make a shadow logger and then switch characters. Realistically the only thing he can mass produce is the codex, which has no purpose. I’d like to see more of that. Like Winona’s building go inactive unless there is a Winona player.

[lakhnish]

Based on the Warly's info post, it seems that the devs have taken character pick-and-dumping into consideration, which is a good thing if they continue to do this for the rest of the character roster. It's really only Winona who faces this issue at this point honestly. Inb4 Winona get's a bonus rework after all reworks.

Spoiler