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Testing feedback: The starting Forest start needs more.


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Never mind, resolved in 347269

 

Been playing around with the testing beta and just a bit of feedback:  The forest biome really needs more resources depending on asteroid difficulty.  It is far easier to get sufficient food and air going on any asteroid that starts in the copper biome, even on some of the asteroids that are supposed to be harder.  Maybe add more seeds/hidden objects in the starting biome based on the chances of success for each asteroid.

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4 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

You have sufficient ressources, you need to change your practice. ;)

As a tips, you really need to visit more in early game the asteroid with that biome.

And how is that test appropriate for the 3rd asteroid?  I'm completely fine with the hard-mode asteroids making you fight to survive early, but not for the arboria asteroid.  Nor that Oceania gives you a far easier start in comparison.   I do know the game enough to survive on the easy asteroid, that isn't my feedback.  It's that it shouldn't require an experienced player to survive on map 3 of 9.

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1 minute ago, SamLogan said:

You have sufficient ressources, you need to change your practice. ;)

Most likely you are correct. It's just going to take time to learn new play styles.

For example, I'm playing a Verdante asteroide (I'd rather have slime biomes than ice) and it sure is different. No algae in the staring area, none visible in any on the surrounding caustic biomes so I have to deal with slime to get to any decent amount of algae. This means no terrariums. Water? Not much so electrolizers are out for now. 

So I'm staying at 4 dupes, digging down, letting a bunch of oxyferns replant themselves at the bottom of my base and slowly pop open slime biome polluted water pockets to deodorize the polluted O2 and get to the CO2. Probably will build an overpressure tank instead of making a mop machine/deconstructing reservoirs for forcing faster polluted water offgassing, mainly because I've never done it that way. 

Due to the lumber I have, next I'll make a wood power plant and play with the rust/salt based O2 plant. 

I find it fun to be relearning a game I've been playing for so long.

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The thing is getting good at Terra will teach you everything you need to survive an arboreal start. You learn to farm, you learn how gasses settle, so you can set up oxyferns. You learn how to deal with an oxygen machine that puts out two gasses so you can get oxygen from rust early without too many problems. You learn how to ranch so you can start slaughtering pips for food (mwa ha ha). It is common gaming design that you are expected to utilize the things you learn on easier difficulties to deal with harder difficulties. 

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2 minutes ago, Promethien said:

The thing is getting good at Terra will teach you everything you need to survive an arboreal start. You learn to farm, you learn how gasses settle, so you can set up oxyferns. You learn how to deal with an oxygen machine that puts out two gasses so you can get oxygen from rust early without too many problems. You learn how to ranch so you can start slaughtering pips for food (mwa ha ha). It is common gaming design that you are expected to utilize the things you learn on easier difficulties to deal with harder difficulties. 

Very true!  But should it take what you learned on harder difficulties to deal with the easier difficulties?

 

Peoples seem to be misunderstanding my feedback.  I'm not saying that it's too hard to survive in the forest biome.  The difficulty is fine as a harder mode.  My feedback is that a moderately difficult mode is presented as an easy map.

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Well, it's 3rd in difficulty rating. To me it fits that just right. If you've got good game knowledge, you can pretty much guarantee survival on it, without resorting to too aggressive strategies, like slaughtering everything for meat, or mining every last bit of rust fro oxygen.

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At first i thought the same, but after playing 3 hours after failing twice in a row i got better at the arboreal asteroid and managed to get a self substainable base.

 

As written before, you can't play the arboreal in the same way as you played Terra. The first thing you notice is that you lack of algea and water. For the first cycles you must relay on 3 dupes and on the new plant, the oxyfern. Get a storage at the center of the base and place all the oxylite stones there to avoid the oxygen to spread too far. If you have too many oxyferns on the top of your base, uproot them and deliver the seeds to the bottom of your base, the new critters will plant them.

Once you research the farm tiles, you can plant them, even if they take water don't worry as your main source of food for many cycles will be the lattuce. The seaweed is easy to set up, even with 40kg of salt water, they grow in 12 days (too much water seems to drown them). Every seaweed gives 5k calories every 12 days, so around 10 can feed a population of 3 dupes. You just need to dig till you find salt water and seaweeds (uproot them as wild seaweed needs 48 cycles). If you set a good farm of seaweed you will have so much food that it will spoil and it s eems there is a new critter which feed on rot piles.

So the food problem get solved as soon as you set up a seaweed farm and hold on for 12 cycles.

The oxygen problem remains, i was unlucky and all the rust were away from the base, so i opted for the elctrolyzer. As i unlocked the super digging i was able to free a steam and polluted water geyser, so i had enough water for the elctrolyzer. By cycle 50 i had a self substainable base.

You can get more water from the bathrooms, but it seems there is no clorine on the asteroid, so you have either to relay on the new rust building or you can start the game with 3 dupes that have the iron gut trait, seems now iron gut has 100% immunity to food poison.

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1 minute ago, Artorias36 said:

Get a storage at the center of the base and place all the oxylite stones there to avoid the oxygen to spread too far

If you manually dig oxylite, you cut how much oxygen it produces by half.

 

2 minutes ago, Artorias36 said:

Every seaweed gives 5k calories every 12 days

I think it's 3,200k. Agree that waterweed is the best early game food item.

For oxygen, I prefer the new rust deoxydizer, since you'll want to find the tide pool biome anyways for lettuce, and I'm surrounded by rust.

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Oxygen isn't really an issue if you understand the differences, but food is, if you play on maximum difficulty (on normal it's possible to survive without making any mush bars); there just aren't enough mealwood seeds for a decent farm fast enough since there are no buried seeds to dig up, no Muckroot to buy time while the farm expands to a sufficient size, and not enough water for mush bars, and not enough critters to slaughter for meat, and the only other source of food is the lettuce, which takes a while to grow (at least 12 cycles for the first harvest), and time to dig to, which you won't have on max diff.

Edit: Other thing is, the new start isn't really supposed to be way harder, since some of the 'hardest' maps use the old starter biome. Seems like it's just supposed to be providing some alternatives.

Also lettuce in and of itself is kind of broken, since it consumes no resources and is basically better then almost every other food source, so frankly I suspect it will be changed to require some kind of resource, but that is a whole separate topic.

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Not sure if oxylite produces less, but regardless I had 4-5 blocks down to my base, was pointless to let them spread oxygen when there were 1k of co2.

 

As for the food, i used the mush bar till the seaweed were fully grown, the water lasted, because actually there are two set of water pools, one where you start and one a bit up or down, depends on the map. I agree that lattuce is broken, if they change it, i hope it will just have a light requirment as the bristles.

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