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About Troxism

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Oxygen Not Included
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  1. Technically don't need to clear regolith from rocket silos, as the rocket destroys it itself when launching/taking off, so once the rockets are fully automated you can just seal off the silo completely and forget about it more or less (some will pile in on the sides of the rocket where it won't destroy over time due to meteors sneaking in during launches/returns, but it won't matter since you never have to back in there). Before then can just manually clear it while still building/making changes. Rocket and fuel pipes/conveyor rails/automation wires/power cables don't take damage/get melted if made out of the right materials and the astronauts never need to leave the capsule anyways. Gantries are totally unneeded in the long term in rocket silos.
  2. Most annoying thing about the matter conversion is it forces you to vacuum and then seal/liquid lock every single Cold Steam Geyser you use if you don't want it to eventually overpressurise or have reduced throughput. As for fixed temp outputs, tbh with the addition of a powerful early game magical heat destroyer (Ice Machine) I was thinking they were going to patch them out, but apparently not, so idk. For PW offgassing, I mean you can make oxygen for free by farming Morbs, which is arguably more 'OP' (not that people usually bother due to the amount you need plus hassle of disinfecting the air). Fixed temp construction pretty much has to stay unless they add some way to control exactly what batch of material is used, or at least some way to filter materials in storage based on temperature so you can lock away/sort out the hot stuff in a convenient fashion. Low temp printables don't really matter as unless you save scum like crazy to get specific ones (which isn't really intended gameplay anyways) the amount of free cooling from this is pretty low on average. For SHC manip, the biggest example I can think of that people use regularly is regolith > magma. Not sure if it will ever get changed tbh as most people don't use it and it doesn't really come up 'by accident' very often.
  3. Pretty sure I remember a water duping build using it and an oil duping build that used it posted here before. It's also pretty easy to trigger on accident in some cases with LOX. Pretty annoying when your trying to play normally and it happens.
  4. You can't use airflow if your using that cooling system because it relies on the tiles of regolith that fall conducting to the diamond tiles, which then conduct to the diamond tiles under the miner which then conduct to the petrol which conducts to the miner itself. At least unless you happen to get regolith chunks to bounce under there, but idk what causes it and it shouldn't be happening so prefer to not rely on that. So to be super safe you need about 1/2 the tiles to remain solid tiles since airflow tiles don't conduct any heat unless they have atmosphere inside them. But yes in theory you could use airflow instead for the slight efficiency boost.
  5. That design relies on not getting too unlucky, you can do it without relying on that by just putting tiles right above the miners and having them overlap slightly so they clear each other off (note the very specific spacing/coverage). But yeah similar concept. The tiles here can be anything really they don't have to be mesh as they are not inside the scanner arc anyways with the spacing used. As mentioned, you either need to use thermium miners as shown, or steel and then use a petroleum coolant loop hooked to a turbine behind the miners if you place them on the floor like this since you have to deal with all the heat from regolith. That is basically the reason many people use 'floating' designs as in the OP and their chief advantage as they can be done with non Steel/Thermium robominers without having to be rebuilt when they overheat. So honestly this floor based design is just for ascetics/if you think floating miners are cheating. And sorry for hijacking.
  6. There are ways to do horizontal miners without having stuff floating above the scanners yeah, although they require some slightly different cooling solutions long term (but it's totally doable). But I don't want to hijack the thread, the build shown here works really well too.
  7. Reason people don't talk much about chlorine is because you can't really change the geyser itself in any way to fix the problem (more output isn't going to do anything). Also, if one really wanted to make chlorine geysers good, I would probably start by buffing Gassy Moos to be worth the trouble compared to Solar Panels (ie actually strictly better then Solar Panels if you are willing to deal with all the hassle).
  8. 1.5kg/cycle is actually nothing. As mentioned it's less then 1/3 of a single sleet wheat plant, and you can produce FAR larger amounts of dirt in other ways. Adding in other sources of CO2 isn't relevant; you would have them regardless of the existence of the geyser. And CO2 has so little heat capacity that a single wheezewort in hydrogen would do 5-10 times more cooling then that entire geyser even if you heated all the CO that came out by 100-150 degrees before consuming it. Honestly it's a textbook example of just not having enough throughput to be worth it. Generally I do agree with the sentiment that geysers don't need to be perfectly balanced in usefulness (that would just make every seed basically the same), but yeah, some geysers are just worthless. Even if you try to build to take advantage of them the benefit is so small it's actually not worth the trouble/there are easier ways to do the exact same thing. Hot Steam/Hydrogen/Both CO2 geysers/Leaky Oil and arguably the Hot Polluted Oxygen vent kind of fall into that category, every other type is more or less useful in some way. Personally I would like to see something like: -Slush Geysers output cut to about 1/2 or 1/3 of the current (it doesn't really make much sense for it to be one of the best sources of water AND coolant at the same time, so this would at least make it less of a ridiculous standout). They would still be very useful, but tbh nerfing them would probably actually help push people towards learning how to play without them and not relying on them as much as I see a lot of people doing. -Polluted Water to about 2/3 of the current values (it's not as cold but still at a moderate temp) -Hydrogen Vents approx doubled, maybe a bit more; it's a hassle to deal with the 500C hydrogen, atm they can't even power a single generator consistently, so it's not actually worth the trouble, but if the output was greater they would be a good source of hydrogen for either power or Liquid Hydrogen rockets if you can deal with the heat and would actually be worth building around. -Hot Steam output buffed considerably, probably about 5 times. They still wouldn't really produce a lot of water, but enough to actually be noticeable, and they would be a source of 'free' power with a turbine. They would still be a pretty weak geyser, but at least you wouldn't just ignore them outright. -The CO2 geysers honestly could probably be buffed by 10x and still not be very useful. I'm not really sure why CO2 geysers produce so laughably little, it's like someone left off a zero or two. CO2 is actually useful in a few ways, but it's terrible as coolant (low specific heat/conductivity), and honestly you can produce 500g/s with just a single Petroleum generator, so I'm not sure why geyser values are so low -Leaky Oil should be producing an average of about 1kg/s+ of hot oil before they would really be useful in practice. Volcanoes would still be way better heat sources, and 1kg/s of oil or petrol isn't really that much in reality, so I don't think this would be crazy (and certainly wouldn't make them anywhere near top tier, but again, the point isn't to make every geyser equal to each other, just to make them all somewhat useful). -Not sure what to do with Hot Polluted Oxygen. Obviously buffing output would help, but it's such a pain to cool the oxygen to usable levels (since pretty much every application of oxygen is pretty temperature sensitive unlike say Hydrogen which you just need to cool enough to get into the pipes and then consume it), that I'm not sure how it would ever be useful outside of producing truly ridiculous quantities (and even then, why cool super hot oxygen when you can get it at reasonable temperatures in so many other ways)
  9. This effect you describe might be contributing to the issue, but losing about 1.5-2C water temp at 2kg/s of water usage is only about 12-16KW of heat loss, while I experience heat loss of around 435KW. So while one way state change heat loss might be a small part of the problem, if that was the only issue I wouldn't have even noticed it in the first place (or just assumed it was passive heat leakage since the materials I used weren't perfect insulators). Something else has to be going on here.
  10. Steam Turbine Test.sav Was messing around with an old save file in the new test branch, and was trying out setups for the new Steam Turbine. It seems that the new Turbine (or maybe it's the Aquatuners), is somehow deleting more heat then it should be. Basically, in the save I have a setup with Aquatuners cooling 3.2kg/s of water by 70C on average, which is 936KW of cooling. Now, this heat is used to heat up steam for the turbine, however the turbine is only running at 500ishW on average, and the steam fluctuates between 150C and 160C (due to the buffer I use to automate the tuners), which means the turbine is only converting about 501KW of heat to power (155C steam is cooled by 60C to get 95C water, 60C*2kg*4.179SHC = 501KW). The turbine does have waste heat, but that is only about 50-60KW, and with the way the setup is done here, the tuners are ALSO cooling the turbine in addition to the 3.2kg/s consumed by the Bristle Blossoms, so the turbine waste heat should have no effect on the 'balance' of heat. Somehow a large amount of heat is being destroyed without being converted into power here. I was able to get other players to confirm this issue with alternative aquatuner + steam turbine setups as well, so it doesn't seem to be a case of me missing insulation somewhere and leaking a bunch of heat or something else obvious. I realise this might be a bit vague but I can't think of a better way to explain it.
  11. [Game Update] - 210794

    Taking a glance at the new numbers for Blossoms/Fertiliser Maker and other things, looks pretty good overall, esp the fact that Blossoms require a lower temp now. It's not quite as easy to sustain as just using Outhouses + Composts (you need slightly more Fertiliser per day per dupe then that provides), but that will get you most of the way, and you can make up the rest with Fertiliser Maker (create dirty water with Shower or Lavatory). Or, it is feasible to just use the Fertiliser Maker, but it takes a little more power (and you need Lavatories then for extra water). Might still need more tweaking later down the line to get it perfect, but it's a FAR healthier place overall then it was in either of the two previous updates (either insanely unsustainable originally or trivially easy in the last one). Very happy to see these changes, and it's good to see Blossoms requiring a little more effort then Mealwood (therefore making Mealwood not renew actually have a point to allow Mealwood to be the 'intro' food for beginners and then you are forced to transition into slightly more complicated farming).
  12. So it seems that 'normally' during a geyser eruption, you get a period of time where it emits 666g/s of steam, then for a few seconds in the middle of the eruption it emits 50kg/s of water, then it goes back to steam, then the eruption ends. This seems like it is the intended behaviour. However when the geyser is partially (NOT completely, then the steam seems to not come out due to depressurisation) submerged in water (usually produced by itself), it seems to generate additional copies of the steam/water (this reads as multiple lines of 'generating X steam/water'), and I think it has to do with how many partially covered water tiles there are? This is what appears to cause the absurd '700 tons of water/steam in a single tile' in geysers that are in a very tight space. It's also what seems to be causing the issues with 'geysers producing absurd amounts of water in general', because if a geyser is in a small space with only a few tiles, what happens is all the steam goes into 1-2 tiles and the water is below, which causes this effect (because the geyser is partially submerged but not completely because the steam has nowhere to go). I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well, but there you go. Edited: Seems like it's related to something else, and it's possible it has something to do with reloading the game. Either way, should discard this and look for the issue causing the multiple emissions elsewhere (it was very consistent for me, but I guess other factors were lining up to cause it).
  13. Something else I was meaning to mention: I think the new oxygen overlay is really confusing. It's very very hard to find contaminated oxygen in your base now: you have to hunt around individual tiles/pay attention carefully to colour which can be hard if you have buildings all over the place blocking the view, and unless your whole base is bathed in yellow it's kind of hard to tell sometimes if you have a 'leak'. I keep finding contaminated oxygen leaking in from weird places outside my base, and often times I don't know about it till many cycles after it actually happens. The old gas overlay was FAR better at telling me at a glance if I needed to fix something. Edit: I looked at the Fertiliser Maker post update: It works fine, but it has the same problem as the Electrolyser used to; it has a 2000kg 'storage tank' for water but won't work if the pipe is empty (so basically it just takes 2000kg of water initially and then never uses it up). Probably just a question of needing to change the value down.
  14. Good changes to Bio Distiller/Fertiliser Maker (their values actually make sense now although if what Risu said about them not taking water fast enough, that could still be a problem), but I have to echo the sentiment that food production is now too far in the other direction (way way way too easy), but I assume this is just a temporary hotfix until more food options are added later? Honestly I think it would have been enough to push the fixes to the Distiller/Fertiliser Maker (to make the Fertiliser Maker actually reasonably usable) and then maybe cut the fertiliser requirement for Blossoms in half, not 10 times. I also don't understand changing Blossoms to have a more lenient temperature curve. I felt like that was a good example of how to add some difficulty to sustainability without just making it a brick wall (and for beginners, you have plenty of Mealwood seeds/Dirt for Mush Bars to give you time to set up an air cooling system in your farm so it actually worked as a decent difficulty curve scaling into the midgame). Honestly I would have liked for it have become MORE stringent. Right now Blossoms are more like Meal Lice used to be before the update which kind of seems like going in circles. Yeah I know it's ironic to complain about it being 'too easy' now, but the pendulum swung so far the other way (Food production efficiency was raised by over 15-20 times with these changes at a glance which is quite absurd) with these changes. Anyways, don't take this as me being super negative; it's just easier to talk about things that are broken then things that are working fine (they tend to jump out far more). Overall I think the update moved in positive directions (making wiring more complex, which while annoying is good for making you think more, temperature is much less wonky, although obviously still not quite perfect ect).