TheKingofSquirrels Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I want to start off by saying, I'm really thankful that Klei has listened to the community and is taking the time to re-balance its characters (also, bringing in new characters is something I'm extremely excited for and I've been asking for this for years, so I literally can't wait!). With that said...do we really need ALL the characters to be rebalanced? I think the general consensus was that the only issues were with Woodie, Willow and Winona. It seems strange that it's a "all or nothing" kinda situation. The fixes are still welcomed of course, but it seems unnecessary in some cases. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuedeAdodooedoe Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Woodie is an issue only because Maxwell exists. Willow and Winona are the biggest troubles right now I would say. The other characters do need balance changes, but don't need to be completely reworked necessarily. I think WX for example, just need wetness to be more of a concern, so for instance the more wetness he has, the faster his health goes down. I even included a mod with this mechanic in tact, it's pretty balanced imho. Everything else for his perks seem fair, and it's nice to see that they nerfed the overcharge so it peaks at around 15 days, or a full season roughly. Wolfgang, to be fair, I feel is overrated. He deals up to double the damage, but really all it means is that other characters. It does make him quite powerful and fun to play, but not really necessary. His nerfs could definitiely have a focus on sanity, and I stand by the idea that he should lose 50% instead of 10% more sanity from mobs and at the same time should have a cap of 100 sanity. I honestly am not sure about what his buffs should really be though. For one, if anything he should have a higher damage modifier, may be dealing 1.5 normally, but 3 times as much damage by default. But it still doesn't feel like that should be his only perk. Having higher speed bonus while mighty is another buff, but WX is already the god of speed, and stats for that matter. Wickerbootom is both too good and too boring to play as. Not sure how her books could be nerfed exactly aside from may be the tentacle book (e.g. requiring to be read on marsh turf, turf not possible to dig up until all tentacles are dead on it), but she could really do with a harsher penalty for eating stale and spoiled foods. To my knowledge she just gets less hunger and health from them, and no sanity in stale state state if they would normally... actually, may be scratch that, seems pretty balanced. Sleeping could have more emphasis be put on in the game in general may be, because usually there is no need for sleeping at all anyway. Maxwell's minions are alright, though they make woodie less useful while at the same time the shadow duelists being awful and a waste of brain power as well as resources. Some better kiting method would be great, but then again I guess he would then be Wolfgang 2.0 if his duelists truly were good. Wigfrid has a greatly done drawback of only being able to eat meat foods, but her perks aren't anything special. The helmet and a bit of a buff to combat makes her very much a character to be played, but she's not S tier in any way. Not sure what she could have changed, but something to make her stand out more than being a slightly inferior Wolfgang alternative and helmet crafter. The other characters that are not part of the 3 you mentioned and the list above are fine, but precisely because they don't really have much to make them seem like really useful characters could really do with some major reworks, either in their existing mechanics or having something new added to them. Webber could be argued being pretty good by being able to start spider wars, but again, that can not only be automated, but other characters, by fighting, could get pretty much the same amount of loot in roughly the same amount of time, Wolfgang particularly. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarsin Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I'd want to see a Wendy rebalance, right now she's sort of useless and people generally pick her exclusively for the appearance. Maxwell could maybe use one as well. I really like what they did to him in the Gorge; having to drop the book in order to summon minions. I'd love to see a more elaborated version of this in base game, making him a strong area-control character. Wickerbottom deserves a rework as well, imo. Her books are sort of bland and you don't use half of them very often: Birds of the World - situational, mainly for late-game Krampus farming and/or feathers; underused Applied Horticulture - not useful at all if your primary food source is a pig/bunnyman/spider farm The End is Nigh! - never used for anything other that charging a WX, unusable in solo Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuedeAdodooedoe Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alarsin said: The End is Nigh! - never used for anything other that charging a WX, unusable in solo You could have a ton of lightning rods in base and use them for some bit of light source all round , but considering how much WX players need their overcharges vs the amount of red gems you get, it really doesn't work out. On second thought, it might be because new players keep resurrecting via life giving amulets, at least in my experience. Something keeps red gem supply low somehow, but I'm not entirely sure how. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenomeSquirrel Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Alarsin said: I'd want to see a Wendy rebalance, right now she's sort of useless and people generally pick her exclusively for the appearance. She’s a great spider hunter, bee box maker, and her ability to hunt demon monkeys is unmatched. She’s only subpar at fighting bosses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terra B Welch Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Alarsin said: I'd want to see a Wendy rebalance, right now she's sort of useless and people generally pick her exclusively for the appearance. Really Abigail is the one that needs a buff, mainly to her intelligence. Make Abigail commandable and she'd be much better. Abigail right now is great at handling groups of smaller mobs, and as said above, she's great at handling those freaking splumonkies, but I do think Abigail needs some form of commanding mechanic, where Wendy can tell Abigail when and when not to fight, like for example, when farming pigs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 5 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said: I want to start off by saying, I'm really thankful that Klei has listened to the community and is taking the time to re-balance its characters (also, bringing in new characters is something I'm extremely excited for and I've been asking for this for years, so I literally can't wait!). With that said...do we really need ALL the characters to be rebalanced? I think the general consensus was that the only issues were with Woodie, Willow and Winona. It seems strange that it's a "all or nothing" kinda situation. The fixes are still welcomed of course, but it seems unnecessary in some cases. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. the devs have said already they are not gonna nerf characters, but giving something special to each one on them. 4 hours ago, Alarsin said: I'd want to see a Wendy rebalance, right now she's sort of useless and people generally pick her exclusively for the appearance. Maxwell could maybe use one as well. I really like what they did to him in the Gorge; having to drop the book in order to summon minions. I'd love to see a more elaborated version of this in base game, making him a strong area-control character. Wickerbottom deserves a rework as well, imo. Her books are sort of bland and you don't use half of them very often: Birds of the World - situational, mainly for late-game Krampus farming and/or feathers; underused Applied Horticulture - not useful at all if your primary food source is a pig/bunnyman/spider farm The End is Nigh! - never used for anything other that charging a WX, unusable in solo TBH, what is the point in "nerfing" Wickerbottoms books? She is a librarian. That's her thing. Or nerfing any character for that matter. It would be bad to homogenize all characters to have an unattainable sense of "perfect balance." IMO, the most important is to make each one of them unique and cool. Moreover, we don't need to commit to one character forever in the same world. We can now switch and have different experiences. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarsin Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 20 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: TBH, what is the point in "nerfing" Wickerbottoms books? She is a librarian. That's her thing. Or nerfing any character for that matter. It would be bad to homogenize all characters to have an unattainable sense of "perfect balance." IMO, the most important is to make each one of them unique and cool. Moreover, we don't need to commit to one character forever in the same world. We can now switch and have different experiences. I never said "nerf" her, I said give her books more taste because right now they're quite bland and uninteresting. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Alarsin said: I never said "nerf" her, I said give her books more taste because right now they're quite bland and uninteresting. If you rarely use some books, it doesn't mean that other players don't. I personally use Birds of the World and Applied Horticulture all the time and it would affect me if they decided to change them. That's why I jumped into the conversation. I admit I rarely use The End is Nigh! unless I have a WX running around, but we don't know yet if some of the other upcoming changes are gonna make this book more interesting. I haven't even tested yet if you can recharge the generators with it. Maybe an idea lol... *wink, wink* Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103751-i-think-the-focus-should-be-on-winona-woodie-and-willow/#findComment-1164582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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