Zarquan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Something I see regularly: One of my duplicants seems very indecisive about his job. Every step he takes, he stops, thinks, and then decides to do the job, at which point he moves one more square, stops, thinks, and repeats until either his work shift is over or he get there and does the job. It is infuriating. One of my dupes almost suffocated in his space suit because of it when I was playing at max speed (they spend more in game time thinking at high speeds). The Quarantined Utopia.sav. In this save, you can see Abe (the camera should be centered on him, if not he is near the top of the central shaft.). He is currently exhibiting this problem. This happens with proximity on and off. I believe I have seen bug reports about it, but I would like to know if other people have seen it and know what the cause is so I can potentially fix it in my game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyrewulfe Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I've seen similar behavior. Perhaps not as extreme, but similar. As well as general "who's doing what" conflicts. Seeing 4 dupe run up, one at a time, start to build one tile, then the next one comes and takes over. Yeah, the FPS is higher. That's... Great, I guess? Dupes are stupid AF now, and overall it's a downgrade. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I've had similar problems, like a miner who mines one tile, then walks away, then turns around and walks back, mines another tile, rinse, repeat. It's extremely frustrating to see dupes being this stupid. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFrancis Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I find it is the worst with deconstruction commands of small items. Deconstruct a run of electrical cable and the moment the first builder arrives all the rest pause and the stuttering starts. It's not game breaking just time wasting. Most likely why the bug has survived so long. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrybovine Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I figured out the problem which confirms my suspicions on why this happens. Its the prioritization you have setup. Players micromanaging the priorities tab can cause this to happen. When I load your sav with your setup, I get the issue you described: https://imgur.com/ZpgXeUX I then reloaded and modified the priority tab as I would in my colony and the issue was gone: https://imgur.com/a/JtI6Llu What I do is set all errands to be neutral ( -) except for Cooking, Art, and Research. Those 3 I disable for all dupes and new dupes and manually set as neutral for the dupes I'll allow to perform them (Sous Chefs and Scientists I set to neutral, and I picked one farmer with decent art skill to be neutral at Art). I also set all the wrenches to neutral too. If I need to kill a lot of critters I will set the errand on the critters and then raise the Combat on the priority tab to highest and the dupes go on a kill spree until its over or I set them back to neutral. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFrancis Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 So if we don't use the priorities feature we can avoid this! I save more time with priorities than I lose to the bug. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrybovine Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 53 minutes ago, JohnFrancis said: So if we don't use the priorities feature we can avoid this! I save more time with priorities than I lose to the bug. 1. You are using the priorities system. Sorta hard not to use it when its part of the game engine. Also, I'm not suggesting you "not" use it. I am clearly using it as I described and it works great for me. I'm suggesting that players try not to use it like a crazy person. 2. Are you sure about saving time? Have you actually tested this and compared at least 2 setups over a cycle or more? Are you using data or a gut feeling when you assert this? Again, I'm not saying changing priorities in a sensible manner can't help a particular scenario or project finish faster, I'm just saying that you can use this tab incorrectly and\or to the point where you are hurting your colony's efficiency. Also as a QA Engineer, I do not consider this as a bug. Its more of an issue of a player not understanding the game mechanics. John, I saw your video on priorities, so you do understand them. You clearly understand how you can set the priorities and end up with a dupe next to an errand not performing it because there is a dupe on the other side of the map who is coming to do the errand. This is a case where time is wasted. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1160902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I regularly swear at my dupes and threaten to drown them in the septic tank. Does not fix the issue, but improves my mood Other than that, I think things are working as intended. People did complain a lot about dupes not optimizing and now that they do, they complain about the dupes optimizing. Madness. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 23 hours ago, suicide commando said: I've had similar problems, like a miner who mines one tile, then walks away, then turns around and walks back, mines another tile, rinse, repeat. It's extremely frustrating to see dupes being this stupid. I don't think this is the same issue. My dupe is walking to the job and spends 90% of his time standing around thinking about what job he should do. Your dupe is actually doing something. 20 hours ago, angrybovine said: I figured out the problem which confirms my suspicions on why this happens. Its the prioritization you have setup. Players micromanaging the priorities tab can cause this to happen. When I load your sav with your setup, I get the issue you described: https://imgur.com/ZpgXeUX I then reloaded and modified the priority tab as I would in my colony and the issue was gone: https://imgur.com/a/JtI6Llu What I do is set all errands to be neutral ( -) except for Cooking, Art, and Research. Those 3 I disable for all dupes and new dupes and manually set as neutral for the dupes I'll allow to perform them (Sous Chefs and Scientists I set to neutral, and I picked one farmer with decent art skill to be neutral at Art). I also set all the wrenches to neutral too. If I need to kill a lot of critters I will set the errand on the critters and then raise the Combat on the priority tab to highest and the dupes go on a kill spree until its over or I set them back to neutral. If that is the solution, I am sad. But I find if hard to believe that it actually solves the problem, but instead makes it less frequent. If you have less people prioritizing building over other jobs, you have less job conflicts. 27 minutes ago, melquiades said: I think it is not a bug, but it is definitely something Klei should improve. If dupes are stealing jobs from each other in a loop, then it is definitely a bug. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I haven`t seen 2 dupes doing one job and stealing from each other but i`ve seen an electric grill swap a recipie (and ingredients it requested) every 2 seconds causing dupes to continously pickup and drop stuff. Already reported the bug (actually somebody else did, i confirmed it). Dupes would carry bristles and mushrooms 2 squares and drop. If there was a ladder involved it could lead to the colony starving if not noticed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Witch Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Good Lord, I have been recently experiencing the same issue, a dupe that is mining for example would take half second breaks between actions making it feel robotic. As mentioned in an earlier post above, I am also micromanaging the Priorities Tab. But that should not cause this issue. If it is, then there's a problem and Klei should look into it. And suggesting that players who go crazy with the Priority tab do not understand the game well is not justified. That's what the Priority tab is supposed to be used for. If you say the solution is to use 'neutral' state for most things, its just a workaround to an issue, Not a Solution. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 My duplicants never do this. Doesn't matter if I set priorities or not. i think you have a bug and should submit a bug report. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrybovine Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Wow. I explained myself poorly I guess. What I was trying to explain was how I isolated the issue to the priorities. The OP wanted a solution and I was explaining the methodology of how I reset the priorities and stopped the herky jerky dupe behavior. I'm not implying everything needs to be neutral, I'm explaining what I did to get my results (which also happens to be how I setup the priorities when I start a colony). "Players micromanaging the priorities tab can cause this to happen" means that it can cause it, not that it will or always does. The extent of how much the settings cause AI conflicts depends on how bad the settings are in relation with what is happening in the colony at the moment. I'm assuming that these settings the OP has were fine at one point, but not at this cycle. As far as right now? Are these particular priority settings that the OP currently has with the current state of his colony with all the errands pending more the problem? Can he change his settings for now and revert back to them when they won't break his dupes' little wills to live? As far as it being a bug or not, ultimately you need to ask the devs if its working as designed for this stage of development. I feel that the problem went away when I changed the settings, so maybe the settings are not optimal for the current state of events in the colony. Can this be improved upon? Of course. If and when they get to that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Zarquan said: If dupes are stealing jobs from each other in a loop, then it is definitely a bug. Very bad it could get, when they drop stuff down looong ladder corridors, because of "stealing" jobs. All others cancel the job and drop, whatever they hold in hand. I call that loop of doom.. I can reproduce it easy with deodorizers / sand.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103437-any-solutions-to-dupe-indecisionprocrastination/#findComment-1161228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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